Domain: bluerobot.com
Stories and comments across the archive that link to bluerobot.com.
Comments · 15
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./list_favs && LANG=de selfhtml
If this was a question in disguise:
For the german speaking croud, I think SelfHTML with it's part about CSS is a very usable reference, apart from the above mentioned W3C specifications.Other useful material consists of diverse articles on A List Apart and meyerweb; and many bits and pieces can be found on Listamatic, BlueRobot and Zen Garden, just to mention a few of my favourites.
Oh, and don't forget to search the web for those cheat sheets needed for IE 6 and other old browsers. -
Re:Wishes
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Re:WHY XHTML are going unnoticed ?
I'm pretty sure that you can't show me a single example of a page that validates as both XHTML and HTML, so you are sending invalid content under at least one of the mime types.
From RFC2854
The text/html media type is now defined by W3C Recommendations; the latest published version is [HTML401]. In addition, [XHTML1] defines a profile of use of XHTML which is compatible with HTML 4.01 and which may also be labeled as text/html.
And you are discriminating against non-IE users, because all the XML parsers currently used require the full data, while HTML parsers start parsing (and displaying) the page as soon as they can.
WTF? Validating parsers are a feature, not a bug. The IE parser however results in a brief display of unstyled content on IE, with CSS imports this is a bug and designers have been known to employ workarounds.
And don't tell me "no problems reported": web browsers can display almost any crap you can put together, if you use standard DOCTYPEs and/or XHTML mimetype try validating your pages first.
All my sites validate. Again, WTF?
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Re:External CSS?
Actually, the initial display of unstyled content does happen, see this article: http://www.bluerobot.com/web/css/fouc.asp
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pwnd.
slashcache
also here's a few interesting links bookmarks layouts more layouts -
Frames Weren't PracticalThe worst part about frames was that they quickly became a novelty item for everyone getting a page out there. This was mainly because it was the cheap and easy way to split up your navigation from your content. Because frames were so easy to use, they were often left alone and amateur site designers assumed that their existing non-framed pages could be left alone to work with their new framed layout. The result was framed pages often externally linking to more framed pages and ending up with non-relevant frames over or beside other frames. Nobody was properly breaking their sites frames when visiting a new frame (the proper element to use in an a href tag was target="_top"). In short: framed chaos.
After years of many site authors putting links up on their pages labeled "Stuck in a frame? Break out of it" (which was just a target="_top" self link) and after many authorites just like Dr. Nielsen warning to not use frames, the popular web pages finally stopped using them and moved on to other annoying practices like triple-columned portal sites and static table-based layouts. Once the popular web pages left frames beaten and crying in the corner, most of the amateur designers followed suit and also abused the table-based layouts.
Now, it seems like we've been waiting an eternity for CSS to enjoy the huge popularity that table-based design has been basking in for way too long. Many sites have gone a long way to further that cause. Namely:
- glish
- Eric Meyer's CSS/edge
- Owen Brigg's Little Boxes
- Blue Robot's The Layout Reservoir
- CSS Zen Garden
- MezzoBlue
... to name just a few. Oh, and the time you save in loading the framed index page only once can't begin to compare to the time you save loading a single style sheet for layout rather than loading tons of table alignment data. -
Re:Mozilla Blues
For everything I've seen, Firefox supports CSS much better than IE. Like a sibling said, IE has become the bane of CSS, hindering true development in a number of ways. Entire websites are devoted to making CSS compliant sites work with IE, not Firefox.
Observe:
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Re:Mozilla Blues
For everything I've seen, Firefox supports CSS much better than IE. Like a sibling said, IE has become the bane of CSS, hindering true development in a number of ways. Entire websites are devoted to making CSS compliant sites work with IE, not Firefox.
Observe:
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Re:Almost
Well, you need to read more then. All that you state is quite easy to impliment.
Here:
blue robot
glish
a list apart
box lessons
css panic guide
design rant -
excitement
"Even hardcore CSSers get all excited when they do simple things like layout pages in columns."
Indeed, not only because of the struggle involved, but because of the great flexibility in using CSS instead of tables. It's not just "thank god I made a nice layout with CSS, it took me 7 hours!" but also "thank god I made a nice layout with CSS, now I can adjust it much more easily in the future and have far greater control than with any table hacks." And they are just that; hacks. The table tag was originally meant only for displaying data in a grid-like format (keep in mind HTML was originally for scientific documents).
And also we're all still learning. How many tablers got excited when they first figured they could use tables for page layout? A lot I bet. Now complex table layouts are all old-hat. Soon matured CSS layouts will be too, with the simplicity of layouts like this (check out the CSS, doesn't look too scary does it?). -
3 column layouts?
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Re:ALA is ok but CSS is broken
Don't specify your layouts in px.
Um, yeah. From the css page for the example you gave:
.content {
position:relative;
width:auto;
min-width:120px;
margin:0px 210px 20px 170px;
border:1px solid black;
background-color:white;
padding:10px;
z-index:3;
}
#navAlpha {
position:absolute;
width:150px;
top:20px;
left:20px;
border:1px dashed black;
background-color:#eee;
padding:10px;
z-index:2;
}
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Re:ALA is ok but CSS is broken
Certain when web designs think inside the box (that they learned back in graphical arts school when the medium was 8.5x11 inch company catalogs), they too often do use pixel measurements and don't allow elements to float in size (as they are supposed to on the web). I tried pushing the limits on your page [link, jpeg, gif]. The left menu didn't expand even when I resized to full screen. But at least the text wrapped around correctly, which did not happen on the ALA/Slashdot [link, jpeg, gif] example (in that case, the text spilled out of the box and overlapped). There is a problem with text overlapping vertically, but I think that is a browser bug (Firebird 0.7).
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check out zeldman et al
I've been reading Zeldman's book Designing for Web Standards at safari.oreilly.com and it addresses this quite well. Safari and Mac IE 5.2 are very compliant to standards moreso than any version of IE on Windows, so it's not as big a deal now as it once was during the browser war era. Yeesh what a mess that was.
You can rest assured that as long as you don't code with a certain browser in mind your site(s) will look pretty close across platforms, IF you design with standards in mind. Losing table based layouts or at least minimizing their usage is one of the best things you can do to increase consistency across browser version/platform. Try not to use deprecated code either, like the venerable <br> or bgcolor = * and <P align="right"> etc. Always specify a DOCTYPE.If you can move away from using old pre-war coding practices you'll be a step ahead in the fight. Check out these sites for more info on coding pages that look good in any browser on any platform:
- Zeldman's site of course.
- Netscape's DevEdge is a great source of info.
- Validate your source.
- Validate your CSS.
- Another html validator.
- Accessibility is not only a good thing it's the right thing, especially if you ever make a government site.
- Bluerobot has some pre-cooked layouts to cut your teeth on.
Designing with XHTML and CSS means not leaving anybody out. From Web-enabled phones to IE 6 to text only browsers like lynx or links you'll only need to write your code once. I say do away with javascript browser detection scripts and write once, run (almost) anywhere!
There is a last resort you can go to if you must. Macromedia Flash looks the same in any browser provided you have the proper plugin.
:) Although that is not my recommended solution. -
Re: Gasp! (Old Machines)
Can you say "Old Machines" and "Default Install"?
On some computers, you'd be insane to even try running a 5.x browser. Browsers are some of the most memory and processor hungry applications your average user can come across. On one of my machines (and old Performa 6116), even running a 4.x browser is foolish. I'm using Netscape 3.x when I run anything on that thing. Or Lynx. Same with a Win 95 PC.
The real point shouldn't be to abandon older browsers: it should be to fight layout complexity. XHTML + CSS is a wonderful tool in this game. I love Blue Robot .... I finally got semantic layout/CSS when I saw it, and the upside was that it degrades perfectly.
Wisely designing to standards doesn't abandon the older browser... rather, it means you can use Netscape 1.0 or Mosaic or Lynx to use a page, and when you use Mozilla 1.0, you get all the purty layout and bells and whistles.