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The genius of Brendan Eich's language is that its so flexible you define new features and redefine existing ones.

There's a (Japanese) implementation of the Java JVM in JavaScript and someone else ported Apple's Objective C in JavaScript

Now personally I don't really care to use either of those (I'd rather stick closer to the actual language being used, and in this case JavaScript is the web), but I think JavaScript is more than adequate as it is

It's unlimited supply of modeling clay: don't complain just because you can't decide what to make!

You're right, I only showed the simplest case. If you would like to learn more about why prototype languages are OO languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prototype-based_programming

Also, if you really want class-based OO in Javascript, there is always Objective-J, which is fully supported by browsers.

Cocoa is also available virtually everywhere, including the web browser itself. While not all implementations of Cocoa are open source, it is based on an open standard (OpenStep) meaning that anyone can write their own implementation.

I do agree with your underlying sentiment. The web browser should provide a virtual machine enabling developers to write their software in any language and framework they see fit. An HTML renderer could be just one of the many applications available to the browser.

although it lacks many of the most basic features necessary to do that sort of development effectively.

Which features are missing, exactly? Cappuccino, for example, implements almost exactly the same APIs and conventions that native Mac/iPhone developers use, only in Javascript.

Holy mother of god. That's so incredibly scary ... from their site ...

Cappuccino was implemented using a new programming language called Objective-J, which is modelled after Objective-C and built entirely on top of JavaScript. Programs written in Objective-J are interpreted in the client, so no compilation or plugins are required. Objective-J is released alongside Cappuccino in this project and under the LGPL.

Fucking hell. This is a hack built on top of a kludge built on top of a monstrosity and then delivered through your web browser. Make it stop!!

This is just shit piled on top of shit, with HTML and HTTP still sitting at the bottom. The web has done more to mangle software development than almost anything else. It's all workarounds to try to overcome the fact that the underlying technology is outdated and useless.

There's been so many attempts to make something workable on top of this mess -- having one's browser running an object-oriented framework and platform abstraction layer in an interpreted language is about as boneheaded as you get.

It's all one big giant steaming turd.

although it lacks many of the most basic features necessary to do that sort of development effectively.

Which features are missing, exactly? Cappuccino, for example, implements almost exactly the same APIs and conventions that native Mac/iPhone developers use, only in Javascript.

Interestingly, I feel that Objective-J is becoming the language that Java wanted to be.

Its core framework, Cappuccino, is heavily inspired by Cocoa, the framework of choice for Mac development. Based on Javascript, it is able to run anywhere you have a Javascript interpreter (i.e. a web browser) and with its strong ties to Objective-C, it can easily be translated into a native executable built under Cocoa on the Mac, Cocoa Touch on iPhone OS, and Cocotron and GNUStep on Windows and Linux.

Not only can you write once and run anywhere (that there is an interpreter), but you can also write once and compile anywhere.

Its programming language is embarrassing.

Objective-J is actually quite nice to work with. Which brings me to my next point which is that frameworks like Cappuccino completely abstract the underlying HTML. At that point your code can just as easily run on top of a generic container that is tuned specifically for applications.

I feel we are on the cusp of actually seeing the write once, run anywhere dream of Java come to fruition. Going back to Cappuccino for a minute: With a little planning, one codebase can already target three platforms: Mac, iPhone, and the web browser. We also know the API is also suitable for Windows and Linux development (see: YellowBox, GNUstep). With a little effort there is no reason why they could not be added as targets also. Mix in the idea of the container specifically designed to support these types of web applications (think ChromeOS) and you suddenly have a very appealing development environment that literally can run anywhere.

The whole thing needs a complete redesign. I think doing something to get rid of the whole HTML thing would be a giant improvement; just display things straight into a window from application code

Right. HTML is a great language for documents, horrible for applications. The solution you are looking for is called Cappuccino and it throws out HTML and CSS in favour of a regular Objective-C Cocoa like paradigm where you just draw in a window or place UI widgets using layout managers.

Trying to write a web application in HTML is like painting with a tennis ball for a brush. It's the wrong tool for the job and you'll spend half the time bending the various components to your will.

The thing is, these are for writing slick Web pages, not desktop-like apps.

If you want to write web apps that look like desktop apps, and feel like desktop apps to write, try GWT or Cappuccino.

Well, you'd at least need someone to create an editor to make it easy to develop.

Cappucino Web Framework, though it's designed to work exactly like Mac OS X/Objective-C/Cocoa, so there's some mindshare issues, but its built on Javascript, and you use Apple's Interface Builder to create interfaces for it.

I'm almost positive you could do that entire site with HTML5 and javascript, and if you wanted an easy development environment, you'd use something like Cappucino, which is just a a language and framework that compile to javascript and HTML4. Take a look at their demo powerpoint app.

I'm working on a GWT framework for the iphone that will allow you to write a web application

Perhaps something like SproutCore or Cappuccino or PhoneGap?

(Not that there's anything wrong with a new project. :) Just wanted to make sure you knew. )

A web app can get surprisingly close to being indistinguishable for native thanks to a few features in MobileSafari like:

This is true, and it's one of the reasons Apple tried to get people to swallow the "The Web is your Dev Kit" line.

It's also funny how people overlook this when they start griping about how venal and/or controlling Apple is.

There is also , I've also seen 6502 emulators in js (sorry, i don't remember the website number). I remember back in the day when memory was limited and BASIC bytecode ruled, there were structured programming-to-BASIC compilers.

You should take a look at http://cappuccino.org./ Is really interesting and brings the best of both worlds.