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+++ Reply:

I hear you that it seems mad.

Maybe think less about it less as what to eat or not to eat, and simply look at Taubes' lecture slides.

His assertions speak to the actual cellular mechanisms.

The main idea is that the G3P/AGP, which is needed for adiposity, only comes from carbohydrates.

I wish he was wrong (trivially or not) as it wouldn't mean that we've all been sold down the river of corn syrup these past 30 years or so...

The science he writes about is sound. But since it goes against everything we've been told, its tough to believe it could make any sense.

FWIW we all know lots of people who could never imagine that there was something other than windows, and who can only write if they have MS word... (I prefer MS VI ;^)

I encourage you to check out his slides in his lecture. http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

To add to this, I encourage anyone to simply read some of the slides in Taubes' lecture. http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

The easy way to peruse the slides without watching the video is to click below the video on the "CHAPTERS" tab ... It'll switch to a list of 64 "Chapters", each of which is actually a slide at the right.

(and here's another way to change between the slides: look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start try "Chapter 62" (in THUMBS near the end at TIME 53:59). Here what it says:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

Just check out some of the slides :)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Please reply here with any head-scratcher you have as questions are the only way to find answers. To me, the only dumb question is the one that goes unasked :^)

To add to this, I encourage anyone to simply read some of the slides in Taubes' lecture. http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

The easy way to peruse the slides without watching the video is to click below the video on the "CHAPTERS" tab ... It'll switch to a list of 64 "Chapters", each of which is actually a slide at the right.

(and here's another way to change between the slides: look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start try "Chapter 62" (in THUMBS near the end at TIME 53:59). Here what it says:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

Just check out some of the slides :)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Please reply here with any head-scratcher you have as questions are the only way to find answers. To me, the only dumb question is the one that goes unasked :^)

To add to this, I encourage anyone to simply read some of the slides in Taubes' lecture. http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

The easy way to peruse the slides without watching the video is to click below the video on the "CHAPTERS" tab ... It'll switch to a list of 64 "Chapters", each of which is actually a slide at the right.

(and here's another way to change between the slides: look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start try "Chapter 62" (in THUMBS near the end at TIME 53:59). Here what it says:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

Just check out some of the slides :)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Please reply here with any head-scratcher you have as questions are the only way to find answers. To me, the only dumb question is the one that goes unasked :^)

I appreciate your skepticism so don't take my word for it, please! I'm just J random interwerb.

but the evidence Taubes presents, though nailed up 'protestant' in many ways, is very accessible to those with a medical background -- he's dug up the "commonly accepted" knowledge that prevailed for a century, and shows how it was then basically forgotten when glitzier science came along. He shows very convincingly in the 176 pages of citations and notes (on top of the 460 pages before!) that "the rigourous pursuit of truth" that science is supposed to be, got lost on the way...

If I was a doctor myself, I'd be excited to find what seems to be the invisible elephant in the room. if only for the river of obese patients whom I see and wish I could help more... At least enough to dig in a little myself before turning to the bathwater...

Do check out some of the slides in his presentation at least :^)

here's my reply on another thread: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1436166&cid=30036266

+++

I hear you that it seems mad.

Maybe think less about it less as what to eat or not to eat, and simply look at Taubes' lecture slides.

His assertions speak to the actual cellular mechanisms.

The main idea is that the G3P/AGP, which is needed for adiposity, only comes from carbohydrates.

I wish he was wrong (trivially or not) as it wouldn't mean that we've all been sold down the river of corn syrup these past 30 years or so...

The science he writes about is sound. But since it goes against everything we've been told, its tough to believe it could make any sense.

FWIW we all know lots of people who could never imagine that there was something other than windows, and who can only write if they have MS word... (I prefer MS VI ;^)

I encourage you to check out his slides in his lecture. http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

At the page, look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start, near the end at TIME 53:59, you'll find this one:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

Just check out some of the slides :)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

I appreciate your skepticism so don't take my word for it, please! I'm just J random interwerb.

but the evidence Taubes presents, though nailed up 'protestant' in many ways, is very accessible to those with a medical background -- he's dug up the "commonly accepted" knowledge that prevailed for a century, and shows how it was then basically forgotten when glitzier science came along. He shows very convincingly in the 176 pages of citations and notes (on top of the 460 pages before!) that "the rigourous pursuit of truth" that science is supposed to be, got lost on the way...

If I was a doctor myself, I'd be excited to find what seems to be the invisible elephant in the room. if only for the river of obese patients whom I see and wish I could help more... At least enough to dig in a little myself before turning to the bathwater...

Do check out some of the slides in his presentation at least :^)

here's my reply on another thread: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1436166&cid=30036266

+++

I hear you that it seems mad.

Maybe think less about it less as what to eat or not to eat, and simply look at Taubes' lecture slides.

His assertions speak to the actual cellular mechanisms.

The main idea is that the G3P/AGP, which is needed for adiposity, only comes from carbohydrates.

I wish he was wrong (trivially or not) as it wouldn't mean that we've all been sold down the river of corn syrup these past 30 years or so...

The science he writes about is sound. But since it goes against everything we've been told, its tough to believe it could make any sense.

FWIW we all know lots of people who could never imagine that there was something other than windows, and who can only write if they have MS word... (I prefer MS VI ;^)

I encourage you to check out his slides in his lecture. http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

At the page, look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start, near the end at TIME 53:59, you'll find this one:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

Just check out some of the slides :)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

I appreciate your skepticism so don't take my word for it, please! I'm just J random interwerb.

but the evidence Taubes presents, though nailed up 'protestant' in many ways, is very accessible to those with a medical background -- he's dug up the "commonly accepted" knowledge that prevailed for a century, and shows how it was then basically forgotten when glitzier science came along. He shows very convincingly in the 176 pages of citations and notes (on top of the 460 pages before!) that "the rigourous pursuit of truth" that science is supposed to be, got lost on the way...

If I was a doctor myself, I'd be excited to find what seems to be the invisible elephant in the room. if only for the river of obese patients whom I see and wish I could help more... At least enough to dig in a little myself before turning to the bathwater...

Do check out some of the slides in his presentation at least :^)

here's my reply on another thread: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1436166&cid=30036266

+++

I hear you that it seems mad.

Maybe think less about it less as what to eat or not to eat, and simply look at Taubes' lecture slides.

His assertions speak to the actual cellular mechanisms.

The main idea is that the G3P/AGP, which is needed for adiposity, only comes from carbohydrates.

I wish he was wrong (trivially or not) as it wouldn't mean that we've all been sold down the river of corn syrup these past 30 years or so...

The science he writes about is sound. But since it goes against everything we've been told, its tough to believe it could make any sense.

FWIW we all know lots of people who could never imagine that there was something other than windows, and who can only write if they have MS word... (I prefer MS VI ;^)

I encourage you to check out his slides in his lecture. http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

At the page, look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start, near the end at TIME 53:59, you'll find this one:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

Just check out some of the slides :)

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Maybe think less about it less as what to eat or not to eat, and simply look at Taubes' lecture slides.

His assertions speak to the actual cellular mechanisms.

The main idea is that the G3P/AGP, which is needed for adiposity, only comes from carbohydrates.

I wish he was wrong (trivially or not) as it wouldn't mean that we've all been sold down the river of corn syrup these past 30 years or so...

The science he writes about is sound. But since it goes against everything we've been told, its tough to believe it could make any sense.

FWIW we all know lots of people who could never imagine that there was something other than windows, and who can only write if they have MS word... (I prefer MS VI ;^)

I encourage you to check out his slides in his lecture. At the page, look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start, near the end at TIME 53:59, you'll find this one:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Maybe think less about it less as what to eat or not to eat, and simply look at Taubes' lecture slides.

His assertions speak to the actual cellular mechanisms.

The main idea is that the G3P/AGP, which is needed for adiposity, only comes from carbohydrates.

I wish he was wrong (trivially or not) as it wouldn't mean that we've all been sold down the river of corn syrup these past 30 years or so...

The science he writes about is sound. But since it goes against everything we've been told, its tough to believe it could make any sense.

FWIW we all know lots of people who could never imagine that there was something other than windows, and who can only write if they have MS word... (I prefer MS VI ;^)

I encourage you to check out his slides in his lecture. At the page, look to the right of the video, where you'll see "SLIDES" and "THUMBS". Click on 'THUMBS' to see the thumbnails, then double click on one to change to it, then click on SLIDES again to see that slide (a pain but its easy).

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Just for the sake of a suggested start, near the end at TIME 53:59, you'll find this one:

Adiposity 101: a reasonable summary

it may be stated categorically that the storage of fat, and therefore the production and maintenance of obesity, cannot take place unless glucose is being metabolized. Since glucose cannot be used by most tissues without the presence of insulin, it also may be stated categorically that obesity is impossible in the absence of adequate tissue concentrations of insulin. Thus an abundant supply of carbohydrate food exerts a powerful influence in directing the stream of glucose metabolism into lipogenesis, whereas a relatively low carbohydrate intake tends to minimize the storage of fat.

Edgar Gordon, JAMA, 1963

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

Especially to geeks who know that sometimes EVERYONE gets it wrong.

In this case, the common (mis)understandings have tainted the understanding of an entire generation of scientists and thus the people they inform.

In a nutshell, it's all about the only hormone in the body that turns ON the fat storage system. All others, including dopamine, adrenaline, etc. tell the body, HEY WE NEED ENERGY NOW, and so energy flows OUT of the fat system. The one hormone that flips the switch to STORAGE is INSULIN.

So when the body has plenty of insulin, its IMPOSSIBLE for it to go back to RELEASE fat mode.

What causes insulin to be released? All carbohydrates do. The #1 of those is GLUCOSE. The others all do to a greater or lesser degree (read about GLYCEMIC LOAD/INDEX).

So without glucose (and the other oses) there is no insulin released. No insulin released means the body stays in the natural energy release when needed mode, not stuck in storage mode.

To add to the trouble, one effect of insulin release is actually HUNGER itself. Thus creating a feedback loop.

Bottom line is, and unbelievable as it sounds in the face of modern "nutrition science", humans don't need to worry about their blood sugar levels being too low. Too high, and chronically elevated, mean the body can't release the fat, no matter how much exercise is done.

Finally he shows how fat has been wrongfully vilified over the past 50 years, and so if you take fat (high-density energy storage) out of the diet, it is replaced with carbs, and that itself is what triggers the storage system.

Taubes has a great one hour video lecture that is very geek friendly.

http://dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm

http://www.google.com/search?q=taubes+adiposity+101

Geeks, you're the only ones who can grok this easily as you RTFM -- well Taubes has wrote the book on it, and if you're curious about why science could be so wrong, start your search engines and know there's a huge revelation that you'll not only say WOW to, but you'll realize that you can help spread the word of how to stop the spread of obesity...

Good luck geeks!

p.s. the key to it all may be the GLYCEROL-3-PHOSPHATE (aka ALPHA GYLYCEROL PHOSPHATE) ... which is the backbone of the stored form of fat in the fat cell. The triple glyceride molecule is too big for the "loading dock" and so transportation in or out of storage necesitates the disassembly of free 3x glycerides down to 2x, and then reassembly inside the fat cell back to 3x. And the best ironic bit, the G3P/AGP is an EXHAUST PRODUCT of the "burning" of the sugars! So it's actually like some component of the car exhaust actually causing the "environmental change", so its not even the energy of the sugars (and starches; which are actually sugars our taste buds can get a 'grip' on to taste as sweet), but rather a by product of their use.

Without excerise I went from 300 lbs down to 165, so it must work... YMMV ;-)

Finally this comment is probably too late to get modded to visibility right now, but if you find this down the road and want to know more, don't hesitate to ask and send an email! The more geeks aware of this, the more ability we have to help others understand too.