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Comments · 8
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Re:Artifacts in a theater near you?
For various technical, biological and other reasons, they do not. Remember, what was shot on analog is not what you see in the analog theater. All movies today go from analog to digital (for editing) and back to analog. The "resolution" of the end product is determined not by the amount of grain on the celluloid (obviously better resolution than 1920x1080) but the resolution and printing capabilities of the film printer. This is exacerbated by a repeated duplication of said celluloid. Most movie theaters today will show films of less quality than a good 1080p TV with an HD source.
The crucial point when it comes to quality is not the resolution but the number of scan lines that can be perceived. With a movie going through a number of processes, film to digital, then digital to film, then duplication round after duplication round, a 1080p movie on a good screen might well be of higher quality than an "analog" movie in the movie theater.
Im not sure where you live.. but all the movie theaters ive been to across my state that are not the econ theaters use DLP projection.. they dont use film. The local one has DCI DLP.. which is 2048x1080 @ 24 fps/48 fps, or 4096x2160 @ 24 fps
So, what is the quality of a typical movie theater you ask (or at least you should). According to an international study named "Image Resolution of 35mm Film in Theatrical Presentation" a typical theater has a 750 scan lines resolution. A very good HD set will typically be about there or a little higher, depending on where you sit.
You can even read about it here.. I am SO looking forward to a TV with 4520 scan lines of resolution.
I read the study that the website is 'based' on; the study is only testing the capabilities of film theaters and the losses associated with converting captured negative film to projection film (print and answer types). The website you supplied is drawing a LOT of false conclusions from the study... some of it I dont even know where it came from. Also the study is best case scenario... in real life film projection is almost always less than what they measured.
You can read this.. which uses the same study and then compares it to digital projection capabilites... Good digital projection (2k and up) surpasses film projection by quite a bit.
http://www.etconsult.com/papers/Technical%20Issues%20in%20Cinema%20Resolution.pdfMost people can tell a large difference between a D-digital theater (especially the new ones..DCI) and a film theater.
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Re:Artifacts in a theater near you?
they have a much higher effective resolution than 1920x1080
For various technical, biological and other reasons, they do not. Remember, what was shot on analog is not what you see in the analog theater. All movies today go from analog to digital (for editing) and back to analog. The "resolution" of the end product is determined not by the amount of grain on the celluloid (obviously better resolution than 1920x1080) but the resolution and printing capabilities of the film printer. This is exacerbated by a repeated duplication of said celluloid. Most movie theaters today will show films of less quality than a good 1080p TV with an HD source.
The crucial point when it comes to quality is not the resolution but the number of scan lines that can be perceived. With a movie going through a number of processes, film to digital, then digital to film, then duplication round after duplication round, a 1080p movie on a good screen might well be of higher quality than an "analog" movie in the movie theater.
So, what is the quality of a typical movie theater you ask (or at least you should). According to an international study named "Image Resolution of 35mm Film in Theatrical Presentation" a typical theater has a 750 scan lines resolution. A very good HD set will typically be about there or a little higher, depending on where you sit.
You can even read about it here.. I am SO looking forward to a TV with 4520 scan lines of resolution.
Very informative, thanks. Most of the theaters near me use 70 mm film - how much will this affect the result?
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Re:Artifacts in a theater near you?
they have a much higher effective resolution than 1920x1080
For various technical, biological and other reasons, they do not. Remember, what was shot on analog is not what you see in the analog theater. All movies today go from analog to digital (for editing) and back to analog. The "resolution" of the end product is determined not by the amount of grain on the celluloid (obviously better resolution than 1920x1080) but the resolution and printing capabilities of the film printer. This is exacerbated by a repeated duplication of said celluloid. Most movie theaters today will show films of less quality than a good 1080p TV with an HD source.
The crucial point when it comes to quality is not the resolution but the number of scan lines that can be perceived. With a movie going through a number of processes, film to digital, then digital to film, then duplication round after duplication round, a 1080p movie on a good screen might well be of higher quality than an "analog" movie in the movie theater.
So, what is the quality of a typical movie theater you ask (or at least you should). According to an international study named "Image Resolution of 35mm Film in Theatrical Presentation" a typical theater has a 750 scan lines resolution. A very good HD set will typically be about there or a little higher, depending on where you sit.
You can even read about it here.. I am SO looking forward to a TV with 4520 scan lines of resolution.
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Re:first post!
35MM film has more resolution than 1080P. http://filmschoolonline.com/sample_lessons/sample_lesson_HD_vs_35mm.htm As long as you're working from the original 35MM film (and also assuming it's not degraded too much) you can easily move to HD and redo the special effects for a true HD original series.
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Re:Most (older) customers have no reason for HD
Film is far higher resolution than even the highest HDTV format.
Actually, you might be surprised (for 35mm film at least; I don't think there's any question that 70mm films surpass HD format resolutions.) See this website for a detailed comparison between the two:
http://www.filmschoolonline.com/sample_lessons/sample_lesson_HD_vs_35mm.htm
Note that they did that study with actual viewers in an actual theater; on paper, 35mm may be higher resolution, but the actual viewers couldn't tell the difference when both were projected onto the same screen, so practically there is no difference. And the viewers they chose were a "panel of experts." -
Re:Does anyone even care at this point?1080p is nowhere NEAR film grain quality. That's still only in the 2 megapixel range. When you start seeing video where each frame is in the 10-20 megapixel range, then you might be talkin'.
Pardon me, but that's a load of videophile bullshit. 10-20MP is what you can capture with extremely fine-grain, ultra-slow photography film with a fixed motive shot and an excellent lens and camera. Here's an actual study on normal 35mm video film, let me quote the results:
35mm RESOLUTIONMeasurement...............Lines
These are not theoretical measurements, those are actual lines of resolution visible on a resolution chart. If you ever thought you saw more lines in the cinema before they brought out 1080p projectors, you're probaby wrong (or it was shot on really special film). Maybe more would be posslble for a negative scanned digitally, but it's not 20MP and certainly noone saw it before digital. Also there's the case that a 1080p image would cover 20 degree FOV for a person with perfect sight, which is as close as most people sit to a 40-60 inch TV. But yes with a projector, you could probably see a small improvement going up in resolution but 480p -> 1080p is much bigger than 1080p -> limit of your sight.
Answer Print MTF...........1400
Release Print MTF..........1000
Theater Highest Assessment..875
Theater Average Assessment..750 -
Re:are we surprised?
The fact is, neither HD format, or existing HD televisions can display the majority of the information contained on a theoretical pristine 35mm film print even from pre-WW2(and stock/grain quality has advanced a lot since then). So, if you really want quality, pick up a projector and some reels. The resolution blows everything else out of the water atm, and that's the only advantage it really has, and I mean money is no object when it comes to picture quality, right?
Try getting the facts:
http://filmschoolonline.com/sample_lessons/sample_ lesson_HD_vs_35mm.htm
35mm RESOLUTION
Measurement Lines
Answer Print MTF 1400
Release Print MTF 1000
Theater Highest Assessment 875
Theater Average Assessment 750
Basicly, 1080p is higher than anything you'll see in the theater (or at home) using analog projection. Film directly transferred to digital may provide a little more resolution than digital recordings, but not much. Film is overrated. -
Re:What's the fuss,anyway?How much data is actually present in a given movie will depend on grain, process, age of film etc. The bits, in point of fact, are there.
That's not a meaningful statement, I can have endless bits which will consist of nothing but random noise. As for how many lines of resolution is actually achieved by film, you can read here. The actual study referred to is here (pdf). The summary:35mm RESOLUTION
So basicly, good film is HDTV (between 720p and 1080p somewhere). Film transfered directly to digital has about 1400 lines of resolution, which is better than current direct digital productions, but not by much (most production grade is 1080 lines, and so are people's HDTVs). Of course, while this is done using 'typical' equipment it's of a resolution chart under excellent conditions, I expect an actual movie would have less.
Measurement Lines
Answer Print MTF 1400
Release Print MTF 1000
Theater Highest Assessment 875
Theater Average Assessment 750