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In US officials' language "civil liberties" means "something that we claim, our enemies disrespect when we want to attack them".

Tell it to Stalin and Kim.

Stalin's death camps
Gulag
Inside North Korea's Gulag

It's funny, but I don't recall that the NKVD, KGB, SMERSH, or other secret police organs of Soviet Power in the USSR worried about blood feuds from torture, or any of that. They simply tortured and killed in staggering numbers.

The KGB prison in Vilnius at The Museum of Genocide Victims

solitary confinement cell, KGB style.

Surprise!

And the Gulags?

What Were Their Crimes? Living in the Gulag Stalin World - Lithuania

The Great Terror: A Reassessment

- - - - -

Torture is ineffective and diminishes the society that condones torture. I still think that the stories that came out last decade are a big part of why American society is so psychotic today.

Some small segments of American society did become unhinged, yes, but not anything close to all of American society.

Keep in perspective that: Only Three Have Been Waterboarded by CIA The most recent of which was about 9 years ago.

Many people are also mistaken regarding what went on at Abu Ghraib. The Army put a stop to abuse by a handful of rogue soldiers who were abusing prisoners, court martialed them, and sent them to jail. All the news media really did was report the news of the Army investigation, and what had gone on. Of course it is more profitable, poltically and financially, to spin dark conspiracy theories when the reality is closer to Jackass: The Movie.

Iraq abuse photos were `just for fun'

Private Lynndie England, the woman who has become the emblem of the US' shame over the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, on Tuesday showed little expression aside from an occasional nervous giggle at a hearing to determine whether she should face the full weight of a court martial.

When first confronted with pictures of her gloating over naked and cowering Iraqi prisoners, England had shown no alarm, telling the officer who led the investigation of the Abu Ghraib scandal in Iraq: "It was just for fun."

That lack of comprehension returned to haunt her yesterday as the prevailing view of the US military -- that England and the handful of other lowly reservists charged in the abuse were rogue soldiers -- began to emerge more fully.

"They didn't think it was that serious. They were just joking around and having some fun during the night shift," Chief Warrant Officer Paul Arthur told the court.

He added later: "From the get-go, it was jokes and frustration." . . . .

If England is convicted on all 19 charges, she could face 38 years in the brig. Some 25 witnesses are to appear including Specialist Joseph Darby, the soldier who first came forward about the abuse, and Specialist Jeremy Sivitz, who was granted relative leniency for cooperating with the investigation.
Much of the prosecution's evidence is from photographs, with more than 280 images of abuse of detainees, . . . The images first came to the attention of the authorities last January.

Arthur, a member of the military CID, was at Abu Ghraib when a soldier in England's military police

It's funny, but I don't recall that the NKVD, KGB, SMERSH, or other secret police organs of Soviet Power in the USSR worried about blood feuds from torture, or any of that. They simply tortured and killed in staggering numbers.

The KGB prison in Vilnius at The Museum of Genocide Victims

solitary confinement cell, KGB style.

Surprise!

And the Gulags?

What Were Their Crimes? Living in the Gulag Stalin World - Lithuania

The Great Terror: A Reassessment

- - - - -

Torture is ineffective and diminishes the society that condones torture. I still think that the stories that came out last decade are a big part of why American society is so psychotic today.

Some small segments of American society did become unhinged, yes, but not anything close to all of American society.

Keep in perspective that: Only Three Have Been Waterboarded by CIA The most recent of which was about 9 years ago.

Many people are also mistaken regarding what went on at Abu Ghraib. The Army put a stop to abuse by a handful of rogue soldiers who were abusing prisoners, court martialed them, and sent them to jail. All the news media really did was report the news of the Army investigation, and what had gone on. Of course it is more profitable, poltically and financially, to spin dark conspiracy theories when the reality is closer to Jackass: The Movie.

Iraq abuse photos were `just for fun'

Private Lynndie England, the woman who has become the emblem of the US' shame over the Abu Ghraib prison scandal, on Tuesday showed little expression aside from an occasional nervous giggle at a hearing to determine whether she should face the full weight of a court martial.

When first confronted with pictures of her gloating over naked and cowering Iraqi prisoners, England had shown no alarm, telling the officer who led the investigation of the Abu Ghraib scandal in Iraq: "It was just for fun."

That lack of comprehension returned to haunt her yesterday as the prevailing view of the US military -- that England and the handful of other lowly reservists charged in the abuse were rogue soldiers -- began to emerge more fully.

"They didn't think it was that serious. They were just joking around and having some fun during the night shift," Chief Warrant Officer Paul Arthur told the court.

He added later: "From the get-go, it was jokes and frustration." . . . .

If England is convicted on all 19 charges, she could face 38 years in the brig. Some 25 witnesses are to appear including Specialist Joseph Darby, the soldier who first came forward about the abuse, and Specialist Jeremy Sivitz, who was granted relative leniency for cooperating with the investigation.
Much of the prosecution's evidence is from photographs, with more than 280 images of abuse of detainees, . . . The images first came to the attention of the authorities last January.

Arthur, a member of the military CID, was at Abu Ghraib when a soldier in England's military police

My apologies then.

But Greece was in trouble before the most recent loans, and heading for default.

As to suffering, any movement that manages to kill 100,000,000 people is going to produce suffering.

Here are a few links:

Living in the Gulag
What Were Their Crimes?
Stalin World - Lithuania

I suspect the Soviet system produced far more cruelty and suffering than you imagine.

My apologies then.

But Greece was in trouble before the most recent loans, and heading for default.

As to suffering, any movement that manages to kill 100,000,000 people is going to produce suffering.

Here are a few links:

Living in the Gulag
What Were Their Crimes?
Stalin World - Lithuania

I suspect the Soviet system produced far more cruelty and suffering than you imagine.

Your post would have been considerably shortened if you had simply summarized it as the US fought Communism around the globe. That is why so many countries are free today. It is a good thing too or else the bloody, oppressive march of communism would have continued. Contrary to what you wrote, Communism was a world wide conspiracy, and a bloody one at that. Sadly I don't have enough time at the moment to correct all of the twisted renderings of facts in your post, as it would be a Herculean task. I think just comparing the history of the Berlin Wall to what you wrote might give a sense of how twisted the history you give is.

More information about: The Berlin Wall

Before the Wall's erection, 3.5 million East Germans circumvented Eastern Bloc emigration restrictions and defected from the GDR, many by crossing over the border from East Berlin into West Berlin, from where they could then travel to West Germany and other Western European countries. Between 1961 and 1989, the wall prevented almost all such emigration. During this period, around 5,000 people attempted to escape over the wall, with estimates of the resulting death toll varying between

And lets provide some background material:

Communism killed ~ 100,000,000 people in the last 100 years.

Why Doesn't Communism Have as Bad a Name as Nazism?

What Were Their Crimes?

Have you ever been late to work?

In the Stalin era, a person who arrived late to work three times could be sent to the Gulag for three years.

Have you ever told a joke about a government official?

In the Stalin era, many were sent to the Gulag for up to 25 years for telling an innocent joke about a Communist Party official.

If your family was starving, would you take a few potatoes left in a field after harvest?

In the Stalin era, a person could be sent to the Gulag for up to ten years for such petty theft.

Living in the Gulag

Some claim that the US is militarist, but it has no custom like the annual military parade through Red Square.
Soviet Military Parade 1984

Stalin World - Lithuania

The KGB Museum - (the Museum of Genocide Victims)

The Soviet Union conquered Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia and annexed them. At the ends of WW2 it took part of Poland as its own territory. The Soviets turned the governments of East Germany, Poland, Romania, Hungary, and the rest of Eastern Europe into not merely client states, but puppet states.

Revelations from the Russian Archives - UKRAINIAN FAMINE

The dreadful famine that engulfed Ukraine, the northern Caucasus, and the lower Volga River area in 1932-1933 was the result of Joseph Stalin's policy of forced collectivization. The heaviest losses occurred in Ukraine, which had been the most productive agricultural area of the Soviet Union. Stalin was determined to crush all vestiges of Ukrainian nationalism. Thus, the famine was accompanied by a devastating purge of the Ukrainian intelligentsia and the Ukrainian Communist party itself. The famine broke the peasants' will to resist collectivization and left Ukraine politically, socially, and psychologically traumatized.

The policy of all-out collectivization instituted by Stalin in 1929 to finance industri

Your post would have been considerably shortened if you had simply summarized it as the US fought Communism around the globe. That is why so many countries are free today. It is a good thing too or else the bloody, oppressive march of communism would have continued. Contrary to what you wrote, Communism was a world wide conspiracy, and a bloody one at that. Sadly I don't have enough time at the moment to correct all of the twisted renderings of facts in your post, as it would be a Herculean task. I think just comparing the history of the Berlin Wall to what you wrote might give a sense of how twisted the history you give is.

More information about: The Berlin Wall

Before the Wall's erection, 3.5 million East Germans circumvented Eastern Bloc emigration restrictions and defected from the GDR, many by crossing over the border from East Berlin into West Berlin, from where they could then travel to West Germany and other Western European countries. Between 1961 and 1989, the wall prevented almost all such emigration. During this period, around 5,000 people attempted to escape over the wall, with estimates of the resulting death toll varying between

And lets provide some background material:

Communism killed ~ 100,000,000 people in the last 100 years.

Why Doesn't Communism Have as Bad a Name as Nazism?

What Were Their Crimes?

Have you ever been late to work?

In the Stalin era, a person who arrived late to work three times could be sent to the Gulag for three years.

Have you ever told a joke about a government official?

In the Stalin era, many were sent to the Gulag for up to 25 years for telling an innocent joke about a Communist Party official.

If your family was starving, would you take a few potatoes left in a field after harvest?

In the Stalin era, a person could be sent to the Gulag for up to ten years for such petty theft.

Living in the Gulag

Some claim that the US is militarist, but it has no custom like the annual military parade through Red Square.
Soviet Military Parade 1984

Stalin World - Lithuania

The KGB Museum - (the Museum of Genocide Victims)

The Soviet Union conquered Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia and annexed them. At the ends of WW2 it took part of Poland as its own territory. The Soviets turned the governments of East Germany, Poland, Romania, Hungary, and the rest of Eastern Europe into not merely client states, but puppet states.

Revelations from the Russian Archives - UKRAINIAN FAMINE

The dreadful famine that engulfed Ukraine, the northern Caucasus, and the lower Volga River area in 1932-1933 was the result of Joseph Stalin's policy of forced collectivization. The heaviest losses occurred in Ukraine, which had been the most productive agricultural area of the Soviet Union. Stalin was determined to crush all vestiges of Ukrainian nationalism. Thus, the famine was accompanied by a devastating purge of the Ukrainian intelligentsia and the Ukrainian Communist party itself. The famine broke the peasants' will to resist collectivization and left Ukraine politically, socially, and psychologically traumatized.

The policy of all-out collectivization instituted by Stalin in 1929 to finance industri

The part about the length of the jail terms is enlightening, but I still have to wonder if the average American thinks it's okay that the closest comparison one can find is Russian Gulags from the 40s and 50s...

There is an important difference. Even if you disagree with the policy behind American law, such a drug crimes, the reason people are imprisoned is arguably criminal behavior. In the Soviet Union, you could find yourself in the Gulag for making a joke about Stalin, not meeting your production quota, completely imaginary crimes such as "wrecking", being denounced to cover someone else's crime or shortcoming, or simply to meet a quota of prisoners of a certain type or from a certain area. (Uranium mine No 7 needs more workers - order more arrests!) This doesn't cover the various deportations of entire ethnic groups to different parts of the country. I think most people would find American prisons far more hospitable than Soviet labor camps that often turned prison into a death sentence.

There are some qualitative differences between American prisons and the Soviet Gulags that I don't think you account for.

What Were Their Crimes?

Have you ever been late to work?

In the Stalin era, a person who arrived late to work three times could be sent to the Gulag for three years.

Have you ever told a joke about a government official?

In the Stalin era, many were sent to the Gulag for up to 25 years for telling an innocent joke about a Communist Party official.

If your family was starving, would you take a few potatoes left in a field after harvest?

In the Stalin era, a person could be sent to the Gulag for up to ten years for such petty theft.

Living in the Gulag

Stalin World - Lithuania

The part about the length of the jail terms is enlightening, but I still have to wonder if the average American thinks it's okay that the closest comparison one can find is Russian Gulags from the 40s and 50s...

There is an important difference. Even if you disagree with the policy behind American law, such a drug crimes, the reason people are imprisoned is arguably criminal behavior. In the Soviet Union, you could find yourself in the Gulag for making a joke about Stalin, not meeting your production quota, completely imaginary crimes such as "wrecking", being denounced to cover someone else's crime or shortcoming, or simply to meet a quota of prisoners of a certain type or from a certain area. (Uranium mine No 7 needs more workers - order more arrests!) This doesn't cover the various deportations of entire ethnic groups to different parts of the country. I think most people would find American prisons far more hospitable than Soviet labor camps that often turned prison into a death sentence.

There are some qualitative differences between American prisons and the Soviet Gulags that I don't think you account for.

What Were Their Crimes?

Have you ever been late to work?

In the Stalin era, a person who arrived late to work three times could be sent to the Gulag for three years.

Have you ever told a joke about a government official?

In the Stalin era, many were sent to the Gulag for up to 25 years for telling an innocent joke about a Communist Party official.

If your family was starving, would you take a few potatoes left in a field after harvest?

In the Stalin era, a person could be sent to the Gulag for up to ten years for such petty theft.

Living in the Gulag

Stalin World - Lithuania