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DeCSS makes it much easier than what? Capturing the video stream, encoding that and sending it out (or recording it onto another medium)? It's hard to imagine it getting much easier than that.

DeCSS: rip video, run throuh compressor
Capturing: Record raw video from your hardwaer Player to your 150 gigabyte High RPM AV hard drive, compress. I don't know many people with 150 gig hard drives. Yes, you could buy a hardware mpeg comperssor, but that would cost a lot of money. A lot more money the DeCSS.

Right now VCD's really the only way to do it, but in a few years, it will be posible to pass VOBs around, without quality loss.

DeCSS doesn't make perfect copies of DVDs feasible, A riped DVD will be a perfict copy, unless you really, really wanted those encryption keys, and 20 second FBI warnings...

Why would someone who didn't copy DVDs before suddenly decide to start just because DeCSS came out?

Beacuse it alows them to do through software what would have cost them at least $1000 in hardware to do (mpeg encoder, standalone DVD player, etc).

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The 'fact sheet' says that you can copy the data on the DVD to your hard drive, by simply doing 'ls' and then 'cp' to the HD. This is true, however those files will be worthless without the decryption Keys, on the first few tracks of the disk. What is so hard for you people to understand about that?

Sure, you can take the files off, and burn them to a blank DVD, but you'll never be able to Watch that DVD, without DeCSS

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DeCSS is more like gzip. You extract the data into readable (or in this case, viewable) form. However, in the process you do make a copy. (Witch you can then send around the world, if you chose )

Why do you people insist on saying that DeCSS cannot be used to pirate movies?

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DeCSS cannot play DVDs, DeCSS has only one function, and that is to copy the Video Data, unencrypted, To a hard drive. It can do nothing else. I have run it, and I know. So, you can scream your mantras as much as you like, you cannot change reality.

DeCSS is for copying DVDs.

Your thinking of css-auth.

*sigh* I do not agree with what the MPAA is doing. But I do not agree with attempting to spread untruth as true.

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hrm... I think this is a troll, but here I go anyway:

Or buy a player (hardware or software decoder) and load the appropriate operating system** to utilize it.

How about downloading a freeware player?

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It means US Patents aren't enforceable outside the USA

what the hell kind of crack are you smoking? Havn't you heard of international patents?

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It has been shown again and again that decrypting and copying DVDs for purposes of piracy just isn't feasible right now, and it probably won't be for some time

Huh? Shown by whom? Uninformed slashdot idiots? Its completely feasible! Shrink down to VCD, and send out over dorm Ethernet/Cable/DSL. There's some quality loss, but DeCSS makes it much more easy.

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Watch ten more businessmen leap off the Linux bandwagon over this.

Huh? DeCSS is a windows program, you know that right?

Anyway who cares? I for one am not willing to sacrifice my freedoms to corporations for a little more support for my favorite OS

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Have you ever tried recording uncompressed hi-res video to a computer? You would need 150 gigs to store a feature length movie, and that's *if* your IO subsystems could take it at all. A $40 Television tuner card is not going to let you rip DVDs, you'd need at least a full hardware MPEG compressor (not cheap).

I know this, I've got a TV tuner card, and I can tell you, it's just not possible to sample a raw movie like that.

With DeCSS, all you need is 9 gigs of hard drive space

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Get a life. De-CSS is *not* being used to pirate whatsoever

Hah, I almost laughed out loud when I read that. Are you really so dense? The files are being compressed down to VCD, and then ether burned or transferred online. Were you unaware of the existence of dvd-copy.com Take a look, and stop being so unbelievably blind.

No, I do not support the DVD-CCA, but I don't support idiotic doublethink ether.

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The above poster was talking about KM, in responce to a post above.

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Well, they would in effect be suing themselves, since Disney is one of there largest memebers...
(not that I wouldn't put it past them...)

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I'm sorry, it doesn't follow that people who posess a DVD drive in their computer necessarily even have the slightest interest in playing movies. If they did, they would have:

You may be a troll, but I didn't see a link to this in any of the troll boards, so...

What the hell else are you going to do with a DVD-ROM drive? There are like 3 or 4 DVD-ROM titles out, and those all come on CD-ROMs as well

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This is the self same company that legally requires players to have built-in incompatibilties between DVD's.

If that were true, how come you can buy region free DVD players?

idiot.

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Well, I think your using the word 'owned' wrong. You have an owner of a copywrite, and you have an owner of the Media. The two uses of the word are non related.

This becomes a problem, though when things loose there physical form, but the distinction is clear. The MPAA still owns the Copywrite, but they do not own the data.

When you buy a car, you are also buying a database detailing what makes up the car. Cars are designed on computers now right? So a car is merely a physical representation of that device. Now, I don't think you would find many people who would say that You can't go an hack apart your Toyota Celica to find out what makes it work (in fact, you can probably order the technical manual that will tell you just that). But you couldn't go out and start building more and selling them as genuine Celicas, that would be a violation of Toyotas copyright.

You own the car; Toyota owns the 'idea' of the Car. You own the DVD data; The MPAA owns the copyright on the movie.

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Hrm, NBC is owned by General Electric, witch has very little interest in anything other then making sure that GE doesn't look bad (They changed the movie 'atomic train' because GE owns and operates Nuclear Power plants, however Nuclear waste doesn't blow up anyway, so That's probably a good thing...)

I think CBS independent, still. And UPN is owned by Paramount, I don't know if paramount is still Independent.

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Since no one needs deCSS to rip an illegal copy,

Why Do people persist in stating this! Almost everyone needs DeCSS to make an illegal copy! Repeat after me: "You CANNOT MAKE A BIT FOR BIT COPY OF A DVD WITH A STANDARD DVD-ROM DRIVE". Since this what almost every one has, DeCSS is the only way to make copies of the movies for friends. If you try to just grab the data as an ISO image, or a .VOB file it will still be encrypted, but it cannot be played because the keys will not be there. Sure you could spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to buy the equipment needed, but what warez puppy is going to do that? On the other hand DeCSS makes it possible to grab perfect digital copies, as pure data removed from the medium. Shrink down to VCD, and your set. You might just make backups; you might just give it to a few friends. Or you might post it online for a couple hundred people do download (who in turn give it to a few hundred more)

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Your right in that the MPAA isn't going to stop Taiwan pirates with CSS, and they never have had any intention, as far as I can see.

What they wanted to stop was your 15 year old warez puppies from posting VOBs in IRC. Think about it, Do you 'pay' for your illicit MP3s? What the MPAA is trying to do here is stop people from sharing with there friends perfect digital copies. The net only requires one original to get passed all over the world (there was most likely only one copy of the matrix originally leaked as VCD, but thousands of people have it)

If one warez person can make a copy and pass it to his friends, then there will be no stopping it. Just like DeCSS itself.

This isn't to say that I agree with the strong-arm tactics of the MPAA, In any way. In fact it makes me very angry. But I do understand why they are afraid

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Are you saying it's impractical to copy a DVD video file? Have you ever used DeCSS? It's a Windows program!! the only way to use DeCSS to watch a movie in Linux would be to copy the file to your hard drive and then reboot.

css-auth is what lets you play DVDs in Linux right off the disk, and is a derivative of DeCSS (or at least uses the same ideas).

Really, the amount of doublethink on this board is shocking. We all know why DeCSS was made, and yet we persist in believing what we want.

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Of course, to be really effective, you setup motion sensors on the boat and then the your sensors are wired to the boat's computer, which sends signals INVERSE to the force sensed by the sensors. If you could do it quick enough, it'd just cancel out and your brain would think you were rock steady...

Actualy, you wouldn't even need sensors in the boat, just the device.

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The word was in somewhat common useage in the US before gibson's book, I think...

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He used the word in Iduro, and not Virtual Light. (I don't know about Mona Lisa Overdrive, but I would doubt it, since the book is a part of the sprawl series)

Btw, Iduro was way, way better then VL (I actualy got bored reading it, well a little bored). But All Tomorows Parties and Iduro really make up for it. I defenetly recomend reading all three books :)

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Hey, I found some more pictures of linux babes on the the stileproject

http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick.j pg
a href=http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick.jpg2> http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick. jpg2
a href=http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick.jpg3> http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick. jpg3
a href=http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick4.jpg> http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick. jpg4
a href=http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick.jpg5> http://www.stileproject.com/linux_chick. jpg5
Anyway...

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I don't know if many people ever go to the site, but it's linked to on china.com and shares a lot of the same graphical apearence (like a sister site or somthing). I know china.com is owned partaly by the chinese government, does this mean that Taiwan.com is as well? It seems a little weird, like Iraq owning CNN.com or somthing here. Does anyone know the details?

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It should be fairly easy to make a RAW rom for the DVD reader, read raw data, and create a new one in exactly the same way.

No, No, NO, It is not 'fairly easy' to do that. The DVD drives you buy for home use cannot read the tracks that store the keys in a 'normal' way. Only when playing back a movie, and only the key that corrisponds with the only player. Also, DVD-writers will not be able to write to those sectors. It *isn't* posible, and it never has been. Why do you people persist I stating this? Just beacuse some guy on TV couldn't articulate it dosn't mean it isn't true... *gah*.

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I don't really see what's so bad about this. I mean, aside from being able to laugh at these guys for being so stupid in the first place, there's no real benefit to us (at this point) to have the DeCSS source available in the Court Docs. The injunction only affects a few websites, not the Internet as a whole. We don't need to have the source in the court docs, you can get it anywhere, even on a tee-shirt.

That isn't to say that I find this whole thing reprehensible, but this particular action doesn't really seem that bad. I think these guys'll probably get it sealed, and to be honest, I don't really see why it shouldn't be.

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Well, I'm not a linguist, so I don't really know. However, I personally don't believe it to be true, I often find myself limited by the English language in my thoughts (like, i'll want to use a word that simply doesn't exist). That, in and of itself doesn't prove anything.

However, if it were true that we were limited to only thinking in terms we already know, how would new words come about? In order for a new word to arise, and idea needs to come about. Take for example the word cyberspace or doublethink. Both concepts can be expressed in words that existed before them, however those words had to come from somewhere as well. It would certainly be possible to think up an ethereal 'space' inside computers and there data without knowing the actual term that describes it. If it were impossible to think up concepts that cannot be described in words, then why would we need to constantly make up new words?

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well, wince runs on x86, therefore crusoe. kind of a moot point.

Hrm, but you'd still need to licens the OS from MS. If caldera can price there CE compatiblity layer cheaper, then they'll be set. Windows 98 runs on x86 to, but that dosn't mean your standard linux box can run win32 apps. You need somthing like wine to do it.

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For example, some GUI's were developed in C, even though I call them an advancement of C++. I'm just being practical here.

That's an odd statement. The first commercial GUI, the Mac OS was written in Pascal, as was windows (initially, some win32 functions even use the PASCAL calling thing, IIRC). The Xerox parc stuff was done in Smalltalk

OOP gives us an easy way to deal with GUIs, but They are not dependant in any way on it.

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You stated in your post that you felt that java was good 'in theory' but that for practical purposes it was simply to slow. While this was true when java first came out, the speed has been icreasing quite a bit. There are other things that make java a bit slow, but I think realisticaly It could be used in a game. Carmak was even considering using it for plug-in moduals, but decided to implement his own dynamicaly compiled language (based on ansi-c) beacuse he wanted more control of the VM.

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The man is an MS whore, And I'm not just trolling here. He's constantly saying that DirectX is easier then OpenGL. Why? because Microsoft helped him port Unreal (written in Glide) and they had to pay people to rewrite the Glide code to GL. Sweeny didn't do any of the work himself.

Even more surprising are his opinions on the Microsoft Case. He has actually said "If Microsoft hadn't been allowed to integrate TCP/IP and Internet Explorer, there would be no Unreal Tournament". I understand the TCP/IP, but I don't see what having an embedded browser has to do with a game... Could be that Sweeney's just on crack though...

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Another nit to pick: the issue of whether or not one's native language restricts what one can think is a philosophical question,

No it isn't. This is exactly the field linguists study. Sure, you could say somthing like 'creationism/Evolution' is a philosophical question, and on one level it is. But there is no reason why a biologiest can't give you the correct sciantific answer.

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Nope, only a 300mhz PII/k6.

MS was actualy out saying that word2k would require a hardware upgrade. Its pretty sluggish on my 400mhz k6ii even.

I dont see how MS can keep this up, and I wonder what there going to do when we eventualy hit a brick wall with speed.

You should not have to upgrade your box just to type letters...

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One gets the feeling, or at least I do, that Caldera probably wishes that they hadn't been working on this. It's only been, what a week Since the Transmeta announcement?

I can't really see this getting that much market acceptance over the Embedded Linux that comes strait from linus for the Crusoe. I suppose there's a large market for 386's and stuff though.

A smart thing for Caldera to do would be to port there "CE compatibility layer" to Embedded Linux on the Crusoe, that would enable them to cash in on there hard work and still be useable in a Transmeta world (depending on whether or not Transmeta succeeds).

Oh well, its nice to see Linux getting a hold on the embedded market.

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Most of the DOS function calls have been rewriten for windows. For instance, the IO calls. Disk IO is much faster in windows then it is in 'dos' mode. Quake also uses it's own Kernel, not DOS's

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In that case, Caldera should sue Caldera for diluting their trademark on the name "Caldera". Then you'd have Caldera OpenLinux, and "The company formerly known as Caldera" OpenDOS...

Hrm, I suppose that could be possible, however I doubt it. I think the CEOs are pretty good frends, seeing how there the same person and all. The again, TicketMaster (paul allen) sued Microsoft, so...

Perhaps in a fit of self loathing, maybe..

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If this doesn't prove Win9x is built on a DOS kernel, I don't know what does!

That's because your an idiot. I already covered a reply like that here. I notice you've used the words built and on to describe the relationship between windows and DOS. All you produce is anecdotal evidence for it. Editing config files proves nothing about the underlying structure of an operating system

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Where exactly is the DOS kernel? I've seen people give instructions for memory location zero, but this, however would be the interupt vector table, not the "DOS kernel". The IVR is set by both the BIOS and by dos. If the Vector Table was really the DOS kernel, then it would prove without a doubt that its not the DOS kernel, beacuse win32 apps cannot ever call CPU interupts.

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So, if DOS was 16-bit, Amiga was 32-bit....

Um... Ok...

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But, you wouldn't need to rewrite the Disk File. Just make an app and stick in the ~/.bashrc file or whatever. This would be detectable, but most people probably don't check there .bashrc files that often.

The idea I had was this, write a program that when run presents the user with a shell prompt, anything typed in gets passed to the bash shell underneth it, exsept keystroeks are recorded. The program is 'loaded' when the user starts the trogen, and sort of sits betwen the user and the TTY, if posible, otherwise between the TTY and bash. It captures input and output, and can see if someone uses su.

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Yes, that's true. But, remember, Linux is not just a server OS. More and more people are starting to use on there home machines. And I really doubt that those boxes could be called "properly administered". if Delmoi's files get deleted, and Delmoi is the only user account, All that good security isn't going to be worth shit.

Anyway, I'm not saying that Linux is anywhere near where Windows is in viral susceptibility, but it is possible, and still not a good thing..

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I think many people know who he is, at least inside the game industry. It would be intresting to see how many people outside the industry knows who these people are.

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Well, I suppose it depends, really. I mean, I wouldn't think that coding a big-ass relational, multidimensional database would be 'easy' or anything, but for something like Word For Windows can't be that difficult (other then some of the zanier things like AutoSummarize). Hell, WordPad was nothing more then the MFC libs thrown together with just a little bit of glue.

As far as game programmers go Doing what John Carmak Or Corrine Yu do would be amazingly difficult for the average hacker. But then again, I can't imagine that something like Starcraft would really be that difficult ether...

That said, I don't think its unreasonable to make assumptions about what other people do, as programmers. We all have brains, and can guess what programmers do. And, all in all, I would have to say that game programming probably does take more skill then BizApp programming. That said, I do think there's a bit more to it then "figuring out financial formulas" or whatever R.I.P said.

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Yes, I was aware of the Fact that Windows keeps some of DOS "around" somewhere to be used for DOS apps to start, etc. But my main point, was that windows itself was not running on top of DOS. Really, kind of 'beside' it or something... I don't know.

The part about the drivers is true though. It's a little muddled, but Saying that windows is a shell for dos is patently wrong.

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Windows boots from DOS. Windows does not Use the functions of the MSDOS operating system while it is running. Load a large file into edit.com in pure dos mode, then try it in a windows DOS box. The DOS box is much faster, because of the 32bit DMA-enabled IO drivers.

Windows is not DOS, Windows does not run 'on top' of DOS.

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Since you've never dug into the internals of Win9x (or, at least, this piece of the internals), I'm going to give you step by step directions on how to see that Win9x is still just a shell over the top of DOS, just like Win3.1.

Yeh, your right, what was I thinking. After All, I've never done any pure assembly coding for windows only pure-DOS! What would I know. The only programming I've done for windows has been in C++!

I'm going to give you step by step directions on how to see that Win9x is still just a shell over the top of DOS, just like Win3.1....

WTF? You think I don't know what msdos.sys's BOOTGUI option does? Do you think I'm a moron? Let me ask you, what the hell does that have to do with whether or not windows is a shell for DOS, and why the hell wouldn't I just hit the F8 key at boot? BeOS starts in MacOS, NT can run in Linux, and Linux can run in NT.

Lets play another game. Find the file called Loadlin.com on your distro's CD. I know Red Hat has it. Copy the Linux kernel to a DOS partition and type "Loadlin.com Linux.krl or" whatever. What happens? Why? Linux boots from DOS!!!! I guess that means Linux is just a shell for dos! I'm sure Linus will be surprised.

Oh? What's that? You've never heard of loadlin.com? I guess you must not know very much about Linux then.

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May I suggest some proof? Take win '95 (original, not OEM, Rev 2.5.3.56.3 etc...). Shut down. Type:

mode co 80 [enter]

and tell me that isn't a DOS prompt... Looks a hell of a lot like win 3.1 to me with a "nice" little graphic displayed at the end to confuse people.

What the hell does that prove? Do you know anything about Operating System Design? With Enlightenment, Linux Can "Look" like MacOS, does that mean it is MacOS? Clearly not.

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Windows dosn't run "on" DOS, it starts from dos, and then unloads DOS from the system (keeping environment for other DOS apps to use in). Thats like saying that NT is part of Linux beacuse the NT bootloader can start Linux.

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As for not being based on legacy code, I have a hard time believing that MS would do a clean rewrite of all the DOS bits that were included into win95.

Hrm, I'm not sure, I do think they would have had to have rewriten quite a bit though to get it to work in windows... For instance, int21 (hex) can be used to write to graphical DOS boxes, and uses Windows' 32bit file access mode (with cashing, DMA, etc). But who knows exactly how it works?

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Get an NES cleaning kit. You can still get them ant FuncoLand. I got one, and after just one cleaning I could usualy get games to run in just two or three tries!! it's fantastic! If you've got an NES you should serously get one :)

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