Domain: oberon.ch
Stories and comments across the archive that link to oberon.ch.
Comments · 9
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Re:Of course it was a mistake...
You are mixing the advantages of component based development and frameworks with completely unnedded bytecode based, jit performance dependent, walled garden for market deformation "solutions"
Take a look to Oberon_F for a better design with the same architectural advantages and none of the unnedded costs
http://www.oberon.ch/blackbox.html -
Re:PHK wide of the mark
Nothing its free, but composition (or efficiency) isnt dammend by safety... just look to Oberon_F http://www.oberon.ch/blackbox.html
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How should a non-techie learn programming
There are actually two answers:
programming in general or programming for the commercial web based market.Your comments assume a commercial market.
However, I would suggest completely forgetting about PhP or SQL or Python or C/CC+ or Java. All of those languages do not get to the core of what constitutes good programming.Only Nicklaus Wirth has endeavored to formulate precise syntax which is "As simple as possible, but not simple" for programming.
The evolution of his thinking can be found in the successive development of the languages:
Pascal, Modula, Oberon, Component Pascal, Oberon-7Each has refined and strengthened the programming core.
I suggest that you start with the open source language Component Pascal and its development environment called BlackBox (everything is hidden unless you explicitly export it) produced by Oberon Microsystems Inc. http://www.oberon.ch/BlackBox
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Component Pascal
Component Pascal is a successor of Pascal which follows the evolutionary line:
Pascal=>Modula=>Oberon=>Component PascalNiklaus Wirth has spent his life designing clean succinct syntax and semantic systems.
If one wishes to truly understand computer programming without unnecessary baggage then
I would strongly recommend the BlackBox/Component Pascal development environment to a new student.
seehttp://www.oberon.ch/blackbox.html
Scroll down to Free Download.
The total development environment is about 10MB
and comes with complete documentation and examples.Enjoy
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Re:Big companies CAN'T change direction
Thats so true on so many levels... any one else noticed that, Microsoft has recluted or subverted most of the better language enginners from the Niklaus Wirth type of languages? Anders Hejlsberg, Clemens Szyperski, Jürg Gutknecht, etc. That alone stoped the development of the (now open sourced) comercial Oberon-F for windows development system "BlackBox" http://www.oberon.ch/blackbox.html
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I dream with a Oberon BlackBox BIOS
What i really die for is a BIOS with some sort of Oberon_OS... (if BlackBox Oberon framework based would be beatifull) really tiny, efficient and powerfull oop based system
For (my laboratory) development its a pleasure to work with... really clean and its open source http://www.oberon.ch/blackbox.html
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Re:The right answer to memory management
You should look the open source BlackBox CP compiler... their garbage collector works roughly that way (or better i think)
Sadly, no. Component Pascal does not have deterministic destructors. So you can't use destructors to release resources at the appropriate time, and you have all the problems mentioned above with destructors being called at a random time. See section 10.4: "The FINALIZE procedure can be implemented for any pointer type. The method is called at some unspecified time after an object of that type (or a base type of it) has become unreachable via other pointers (not globally anchored anymore) and before the object is deallocated."
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The Algol FamilyAlgol-68, Pascal, Modula-2, Oberon[-2], Component Pascal - all from Niklaus Wirth and colleagues at ETHZ (Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule Zürich), and its spinoff, Oberon Microsystems.
Interestingly, one of the founders of OMS, Clemens Szyperski, recently went to work for Microsoft Research.
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I would get flamed for this, but anyway...
Don't do BASIC or C* misfavor to your children. Delphi is also bad choice because it is hybrid of everything and children can't fight it's complexness without danger to development of basic programming techniques and notions.
Any Wirth's language would be good choice. Simpler-better, and with Windows in mind I would probably choose Oberon-2. www.oberon.ch I think is good starting point.