Slashdot Mirror

Uhm, the Perl Foundation seems to be in need of some donations...

That is not an accurate assessment. As this article illustrates, many real-world Perl 5 programs will port to Perl 6 with little (and sometimes no) changes required.

...if you look at the code that Damian Conway is generating, it's nothing like perl 5...

In Exegesis 5? Of course not. Because the Exegeses supposed to explain the Apocalypses, which are specifically about the differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6.

When I'm writing code to illustrate the similarities between the two, then the Perl 6 code looks very much like Perl 5.

The problem here is that you have a language being developed by a linguist, not a computer science guy.

Actually, no. Perl 5 was the language that was developed by a linguist, not a computer science guy. Perl 6 is the language being developed by a linguist and a computer science guy (amongst others).

The simple fact of the matter is, all of the grammar is changing.

No it's not. Not even close. Something less than 20% of the grammar is changing.

All of the keywords are changing.

Again, simply not true. Not one of the following keywords is changing: for, while, if, unless, until, goto, BEGIN, END, INIT, CHECK, DESTROY, bless, caller, chomp, close, defined, delete, die, exists, exit, fork, getc, goto, grep, index, int, join, keys, kill, last, lc, lcfirst, length, lstat, m//, map, my, next, no, open, ord, pack, package, pipe, pop, pos, print, printf, push, q//, qq//, quotemeta, qw//, qx//, rand, redo, require, reset, return, reverse, rindex, s///, scalar, seek, shift, sleep, sort, splice, split, sprintf, sqrt, sub, system, tell, tr///, uc, ucfirst, undef, unpack, unshift, use, values, vec, wait, warn, y///.

Those of us on the design team certainly understand that it can sometimes feel like Perl6 is nothing close to Perl 5, and like all the grammar and keywords are changing, and that the linguists are now running the asylum. But the reality is -- as usual -- considerably less fearsome, uncertain, or doubtful than our fears might lead us to believe.

That is not an accurate assessment. As this article illustrates, many real-world Perl 5 programs will port to Perl 6 with little (and sometimes no) changes required.

...if you look at the code that Damian Conway is generating, it's nothing like perl 5...

In Exegesis 5? Of course not. Because the Exegeses supposed to explain the Apocalypses, which are specifically about the differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6.

When I'm writing code to illustrate the similarities between the two, then the Perl 6 code looks very much like Perl 5.

The problem here is that you have a language being developed by a linguist, not a computer science guy.

Actually, no. Perl 5 was the language that was developed by a linguist, not a computer science guy. Perl 6 is the language being developed by a linguist and a computer science guy (amongst others).

The simple fact of the matter is, all of the grammar is changing.

No it's not. Not even close. Something less than 20% of the grammar is changing.

All of the keywords are changing.

Again, simply not true. Not one of the following keywords is changing: for, while, if, unless, until, goto, BEGIN, END, INIT, CHECK, DESTROY, bless, caller, chomp, close, defined, delete, die, exists, exit, fork, getc, goto, grep, index, int, join, keys, kill, last, lc, lcfirst, length, lstat, m//, map, my, next, no, open, ord, pack, package, pipe, pop, pos, print, printf, push, q//, qq//, quotemeta, qw//, qx//, rand, redo, require, reset, return, reverse, rindex, s///, scalar, seek, shift, sleep, sort, splice, split, sprintf, sqrt, sub, system, tell, tr///, uc, ucfirst, undef, unpack, unshift, use, values, vec, wait, warn, y///.

Those of us on the design team certainly understand that it can sometimes feel like Perl6 is nothing close to Perl 5, and like all the grammar and keywords are changing, and that the linguists are now running the asylum. But the reality is -- as usual -- considerably less fearsome, uncertain, or doubtful than our fears might lead us to believe.

If perl is used so extensively in OS X, mabey you guys should consider being the fix to the lack of funds the Perl Foundation is experiencing as noted in a previous slashdot article that I am too lazy to look up. It would be really cool in my oppinion if Apple donated some money to the projects that have made OS X what it is today.

Just a suggestion.

For 18 months of Damian and half a year of Dan and Larry... what has been produced?

I'll let Larry and Dan speak for themselves, but as for myself: in the eighteen months I was supported by the Perl community I produced the following...

• Released 55 significant updates to 21 CPAN modules...
• ...including 16 entirely new modules...
• ...5 of which were subsequently considered important enough to be included in the Perl 5.8 core distribution;
• Wrote four extended documents (Exegeses 2,3,4 and Synopsis 5) explaining the Perl 6 design;
• Wrote a Perl Journal article on the practicalities of porting Perl 5 code to Perl 6;
• Developed a 125 page alternative design for a future Perl (named Perl 5+i), much of which has fed back into the Perl 6 design process;
• Wrote several articles for various Perl community channels like use.perl;
• Added 88 discussion nodes to the Perl Monks website;
• Posted 192 responses to messages posted on the comp.lang.perl.* newsgroups;
• Replied to over 5000 Perl-related email messages;
• Gave 167 hours of presentations on 56 Perl topics in 21 different cities in 9 countries on 4 continents.

What finished products can we take back to our workplace and use?

• Attribute::Handlers
• Attribute::Handlers::Prospective
• Attribute::Types
• Class::Delegation
• Filter::Simple
• Getopt::Declare
• Hook::LexWrap
• Inline::Files
• Lingua::EN Inflect
• NEXT
• Parse::RecDescent
• Perl6::Currying
• Perl6::Placeholders
• Perl6::Variables
• Regexp::Common
• Switch
• Text::Balanced
• Text::Reform

Mailing list traffic?

Apocalypses/Exegeses?

Acme::*?

A lot of travel time...

...and expenses?

Lectures given in far away cities...

...to a few hundred perl hackers?

Half a design for a language...

...nobody really begged for?

Firstly, this year's YAPC::Europe is in Munich, and is on the week before the "Oktober Fest". Now, I am sure a few of the attendees at the conference will want to go to this unfortunate event, but not the majority. So the Munich.pm people have set up the conference for the busiest and most expensive time of year (accommodation and travel-wise). They are asking people to make reservations now. Excuse me? The conference is over half a year away. I don't want what I'm going to be doing in September, do you? The theme of the conference is some silly quasi-intellectual "Science of Perl" nonsense. Surely the theme should have been Perl 6? Apparently not....

Secondly what the hell makes the Perl Foundation think they're going to get enough money? In nearly 2 months they've barely got enough for one grant, let alone 3! I despair. (And before you ask, I did make a contribution).

I know these comments seem a bit harsh, but please don't mod this down. I think I make valid points, and please forgive the tone since this is just annoying me so much.

Firstly, this year's YAPC::Europe is in Munich, and is on the week before the "Oktober Fest". Now, I am sure a few of the attendees at the conference will want to go to this unfortunate event, but not the majority. So the Munich.pm people have set up the conference for the busiest and most expensive time of year (accommodation and travel-wise). They are asking people to make reservations now. Excuse me? The conference is over half a year away. I don't want what I'm going to be doing in September, do you? The theme of the conference is some silly quasi-intellectual "Science of Perl" nonsense. Surely the theme should have been Perl 6? Apparently not....

Secondly what the hell makes the Perl Foundation think they're going to get enough money? In nearly 2 months they've barely got enough for one grant, let alone 3! I despair. (And before you ask, I did make a contribution).

I know these comments seem a bit harsh, but please don't mod this down. I think I make valid points, and please forgive the tone since this is just annoying me so much.