Slashdot Mirror

Well there's the obvious invasion of Yugoslavia and installing a US friendly leader who dissolved the country into Serbia and Montenegro, and was then promptly assassinated.
But there's also the enforcing of murderous sanctions that were, up until the second Iraq invasion a few months ago, killing 5000 children each month (UN and WHO numbers). And the bombings in the illegally enforced no-fly zones which included the bombing and killing of dangerous and deadly sheep.
Of course there's also helping turkey massacre 30,000 kurds. Giving the draconian and terrorist government of Colombia billions in military aid. Increasing weapons sales to Indonesia and trying to cover for them, and delay the UN in acting to stop the massacre in East Timor.

'course I don't know if any of that stuff is as bad as getting a blowjob from Monica Lewinsky. Lewinsky is ugly!

Iran Hostage crisis ---> Started under Carter. Ended under Reagan.

Actually it started in 1953 when Eisenhower ordered the CIA to overthrow the popularly elected (as in a real democratic election) prime minister of Iran, Mossadegh, by pushing Reza Pahlava, the Shah, to expel him. Riots ensued, the Shah fled, the CIA put the riots down, brought the Shaw back, and trained SAVAK; who went on to earn Amnesty International's award for "worst human rights record on the planet" in 1976. That's the year Carter was elected, he didn't take office 'till 77. I'm not sure how you can imply he was responsible for the revolt in 79 to overthrow a brutal and repressive regime.

As for Reagan's illustrious involvement in the hostage crisis: He traded weapons to the Ayatollah Khomeini, the forces of darkness, to secure their release. Even Reagan admitted it. A very clever move, now known as the October Surprise, which was significant in defeating Carter.

Star Wars ---> Dreamed up in the 70's continues today. Even Clinton continued to fund it.

"When President Reagan first issued his challenge to America's scientific community to find a defense against ballistic missiles..." Clinton did continue funding, but then Clinton governed as a moderate republican, unfortunately.

Grenada ---> Warehouses full of Soviet weapons seized just before the 'rebellion' was to start. Talk to 82nd airborne vets about what they found and saw before you think it was a joke.

Greneda was no joke for the Grenadines. They had made the mistake of electing Maurice Bishop who, alas, was mildly socialist. CIA destabilization began shortly thereafter under Carter in '79, actually, but given the animosity and outright betrayal of Carter by the UberRight in the defense organization (Ollie et al, see above), it's not clear he knew anything about it. Given that Grenada was a managed news event, you should be careful of any "news" you read about it, and the dangerous weapons they had. Remember pfc Lynch's "Rescue."

War on drugs ---> Bush Sr., Nancy was "Just say No to drugs." Not to mention drug use DID decline through the end of the 80's and early 90's. The war is 'lost' because we (people and government) lost focus not because it could not be won.

US prohibition has quite a long history, all of it embarrassing. Reagan did declare the "War on Drugs," but what that really meant, and continues to mean is difficult to ascertain. One thing is for sure, it is not about helping people. Mentioning Gary Webb's careful and exceptionally well documented journalism runs contrary to the charade, but the evidence is strong that under Reagan the CIA was supporting the sale of cocaine in the US to fund the Contras after congress confronted the CIA's arms sales underwritten funding.

Central America ---> What part? And no fair bringing up Nicaragua. You already have Iran-Contra on the list. And if you thing the Sandinistas were better than the Contras you're frikin' nuts.

The difference is the Sandinistas were the popularly elected government and the Contras were the private army of Samoza, evacuated, rearmed, retrained, and reinserted

Greenpeace reports that between 1950 and 1993 there have been 380 nuclear weapons accidents, some involving the accidental "dirty bomb" incidents, such as the dispersion of nuclear materials over Palomares in southern Spain.

Now according to the the National Human Radiobiology Tissue Repository who studied the Palomares incident as well as many other cases, a 78 year old person with elevated Pu in their bones will only have a 0.14285 probability of dying this year, whereas a normal american 78 year old will have an average probaility of dying this year of 0.12780.

We're already dropping nuclear material all over ourselves, and for the most part, you aren't going to hear about it until it's declassified.

Furthermore, have you been to Hiroshima and stood under the peace dome? Have you seen the children playing in the schools at Nagasaki?

The oppertunites for using peaceful nuclear power to explore space far outweigh the risks. Those accidents haven't degraded my environmental quality. I'm sure that a deliberate attack on myself would, but even that will heal with time.

We are talking about the power to reach out and travel the cosmos.

the chinese ming Emperor Zhu Di built a massive navy which traded extensively in the pacific, reached africa and almost discovered america.

When Emperor Zhu died, his sucessor was advised to lessen the tax burden of the navy, and burned all the ships. Result? Other more outward looking seafaring nations whipped them.

If we don't have deep space capability, then we are dead meat when we come across those who do. Especially if they are ex-earth colonists who decide to return. No chance of benevolance through alien genetics there.

"Right, they aren't prisoners of war. To be a prisoner of war you have to follow the Geneva convention ON THE BATTLEFIELD. You know, wear a uniform, identifiable markings"

Ok, so what are they? If they were imprisoned on the US mainland then surely they are subject to US law and so are *innocent until +proven+ guilty*. They haven't been allowed the minimum of justice. If they are not prisoners of war then they should be held and tried in the country they were captured in. You can't have your cake and eat it.

"They're brigands. Little more than pirates. Frankly, they're lucky they weren't just lined up and shot."

So why are they any different from, say McVeigh the Oklahoma bomber. Is it because they aren't US citizens? So the US state is racist now? You can't just arbitrarily remove the rights of individuals because of what they did or who they are. That is how the rot starts as it has done before.

"You got evidence of torture? Bring it on. There is none. Three squares, clean clothes, prayer mats, exercise yard, the works. Their conditions are equal to and better than typical prisons".

So prisoners are typically led around with bags on their heads? People in the US are regularly locked up, deprived of their freedom, with out trial? You *must* treat everyone equally. Anything else leads the road to ruin.

"I wonder how France would have treated these guys...you might want to check out their kindly ways during the Algerian and Vietnamese wars..."

I don't care how France treated people. That is past. How they and other nations treat people now and in the future is important. As I said before you don't just have to carry out justice you have to be seen to be carrying out justice. Anything else just isn't good enough and makes you as bad as the bad guys.