Domain: usccr.gov
Stories and comments across the archive that link to usccr.gov.
Comments · 67
-
Re:2000 election fraud and Documentation
I didn't read the whole thing but here is a quote that seems to corroborate Greg Palast's allegations:
In 2000, Florida contracted with DBT Online (Choicepoint) to purge the central voter list. The Commission found that the use of a private entity without clear and effective guidance from the highest state levels, coupled with the absence of uniform and reliable verification procedures, resulted in the disenfranchisement of countless eligible voters in 2000.
Here is the executive summary of the USCCR findings. The most important point is found in the 8th paragraph:
"The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred."
Basically, the report found that even though some voters may have been disenfranchised, they do not believe it was Jeb Bush or Katherine Harris conspiring to do it, and that no intentional discrimination occured. This collaborates with this NAACP Settlement:
"Plaintiffs have not alleged that Defendants acted in a purposefully discriminatory manner toward any group."
In fact, the main findings of the report were harshly criticized in this Dissent, which says in part: "The Commission's report has little basis in fact. Its conclusions are based on a deeply flawed statistical analysis coupled with anecdotal evidence of limited value, unverified by a proper factual investigation. This shaky foundation is used to justify charges of the most serious nature--questioning the legitimacy of the American electoral process and the validity of the most recent presidential election."
Despite the claims of widespread voter and minority disenfranchisement, the comission could not find a single person who testified that they were incorrectly included on the felons' list and were not allowed to vote. They only found anecdotal evidence from a few people about irregularities (such as people getting a busy signal when they tried to call the election officials) and used this to levy a very serious charge.
Greg Palast claims to have 2 CDROMS with the complete felons' list. I suppose it would be a violation of privacy and stuff but it would be nice if they were published so we could look at them ourselves
The felons' list that was compiled by DBT/Choicepointe is largely irrelevent. DBT was hired in 1998 after the Florida Legislature passed a requiring the state to compile a list of voters who potentially should not be allow to vote. They were instructed (by the Florida Legislature, and Ethel Baxter -- the Democrat director of elections) to compile a list with as many names as possible. They knew that many invalid names would be on the list, and they required local county officials to verify every name on the list. It turns out that many counties did not do this and eventually discarded the lists entirely, and this was the reason for the NAACP suit. Florida changed this proceedure even before the NAACP settlement took place.
It is also interesting to point out that the state Democratic party officials were concerned that Janet Reno would win the 2002 Gubernatorial primary after they endorsed McBride, so they petitioned the Secretary of State to include as many names on the felon list as possible, fearing that ex-convicts would be more likely to vote for Reno because of her "light" stance on crime.
I was able to find this Salon article that says 173,000 names were removed from the voter roles, and that 8,000 of them were people who were convicted for misdemeanors, not felonies.
Salon.com was also forced to post -
Re:2000 election fraud and Documentation
I didn't read the whole thing but here is a quote that seems to corroborate Greg Palast's allegations:
In 2000, Florida contracted with DBT Online (Choicepoint) to purge the central voter list. The Commission found that the use of a private entity without clear and effective guidance from the highest state levels, coupled with the absence of uniform and reliable verification procedures, resulted in the disenfranchisement of countless eligible voters in 2000.
Here is the executive summary of the USCCR findings. The most important point is found in the 8th paragraph:
"The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred."
Basically, the report found that even though some voters may have been disenfranchised, they do not believe it was Jeb Bush or Katherine Harris conspiring to do it, and that no intentional discrimination occured. This collaborates with this NAACP Settlement:
"Plaintiffs have not alleged that Defendants acted in a purposefully discriminatory manner toward any group."
In fact, the main findings of the report were harshly criticized in this Dissent, which says in part: "The Commission's report has little basis in fact. Its conclusions are based on a deeply flawed statistical analysis coupled with anecdotal evidence of limited value, unverified by a proper factual investigation. This shaky foundation is used to justify charges of the most serious nature--questioning the legitimacy of the American electoral process and the validity of the most recent presidential election."
Despite the claims of widespread voter and minority disenfranchisement, the comission could not find a single person who testified that they were incorrectly included on the felons' list and were not allowed to vote. They only found anecdotal evidence from a few people about irregularities (such as people getting a busy signal when they tried to call the election officials) and used this to levy a very serious charge.
Greg Palast claims to have 2 CDROMS with the complete felons' list. I suppose it would be a violation of privacy and stuff but it would be nice if they were published so we could look at them ourselves
The felons' list that was compiled by DBT/Choicepointe is largely irrelevent. DBT was hired in 1998 after the Florida Legislature passed a requiring the state to compile a list of voters who potentially should not be allow to vote. They were instructed (by the Florida Legislature, and Ethel Baxter -- the Democrat director of elections) to compile a list with as many names as possible. They knew that many invalid names would be on the list, and they required local county officials to verify every name on the list. It turns out that many counties did not do this and eventually discarded the lists entirely, and this was the reason for the NAACP suit. Florida changed this proceedure even before the NAACP settlement took place.
It is also interesting to point out that the state Democratic party officials were concerned that Janet Reno would win the 2002 Gubernatorial primary after they endorsed McBride, so they petitioned the Secretary of State to include as many names on the felon list as possible, fearing that ex-convicts would be more likely to vote for Reno because of her "light" stance on crime.
I was able to find this Salon article that says 173,000 names were removed from the voter roles, and that 8,000 of them were people who were convicted for misdemeanors, not felonies.
Salon.com was also forced to post -
2000 election fraud and DocumentationTake two seconds on his home page to see that (Greg Palast) is not an unbiased source of information
It's been said before, everyone is biased. When it comes down it it, what really matters is are the allegations factual.
Maybe there were voters that were purged incorrectly- we will never know. But if it had been such a widespread problem, don't you think the USCCR could have found at least one person to testify that they were kept from voting because of the list?
It's funny, but in a beaurocracy as big as it took to compile the Felon's list you would think that there would have been at least one honest mistake even in the best of circumstances. For example, I get calls from dept collecters about twice a year for dept that is owed by someone with a similar name as me.
I base my arguments on the findings from the United States Commission on Civil Rights
Is this the report you are refering to? I didn't read the whole thing but here is a quote that seems to corroborate Greg Palast's allegations:In 2000, Florida contracted with DBT Online (Choicepoint) to purge the central voter list. The Commission found that the use of a private entity without clear and effective guidance from the highest state levels, coupled with the absence of uniform and reliable verification procedures, resulted in the disenfranchisement of countless eligible voters in 2000.
But it still does leave many questions. The report is very much a summary, and leaves out just about any detail.
Greg Palast claims to have 2 CDROMS with the complete felons' list. I suppose it would be a violation of privacy and stuff but it would be nice if they were published so we could look at them ourselves.
This Article on Greg Palast's website claims to detail how Choicepoint came up with the list. It would be nice to find an independent source to confirm the details that isn't just quoting from Palast or an associate.
The article said that the NAACP sued Katherine Harris' department and one, but didn't mention any details. I was able to find this page which seems to be the complaint and details specific incidents of people denied to vote. I'm not big on legalise and couldn't find a court case number. Anyone know how to look this up?
err.... I was trying to lookup something I had read before on Palast's website that I thought implied that he was published in the London Times reporting on the Felons' List. But now I can't even find that. Maybe he was refering to the Guardian instead of the Times. Anyone know what I'm talking about here?
Oh one more thing to ask: Supposedly there were lots of roadblocks out on the streets on Election Day 2000. Did anyone get pictures of these? Anyone know of any websites with pictures or specific details on this?
Documentation and sources are a good thing.
I was able to find this Salon article that says 173,000 names were removed from the voter roles, and that 8,000 of them were people who were convicted for misdemeanors, not felonies.
As to media bias, I think the mainstream media is biased, but not according to "liberal" or "conservitive" slant but towards the status quo. Rather than a bias of disinformation, it is underreporting that is the problem. In other words stories that would reflect badly on advertisers or the parent company go unreported. In this case challenging the legitamacy of the current administration would be upsetting to the status quo and bad for business in general. Too bad the economy is in the crapper.
Are Salon and The Guardian unbiased sources? :)
For the record, I didn't vote for Al Gore and was extremely frighten -
Re:Use open source in governmentI think you also missed this part:
The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred...
It is impossible to determine the extent of the disenfranchisement or to provide an adequate remedy to the persons whose voices were silenced by injustice, ineptitude, and inefficiency.
In fact, read the entire summary of the USCCR report. You will find such damning stories like:
A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor's office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours.
One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker.
A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, "By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn't want to work as a clerk anymore."
Take note of the secion titled "Purging Former Felons from the Voter Rolls". Note that they failed to come up with a single name of any individual who was incorrectly added to the rolls. The only recommendations are:
The Division of Elections failed to recommend the same cautionary steps before the November 2000 presidential election that were taken before the 1998 election. At that time, supervisors of elections were asked to verify the exclusion lists with the greatest of care. They were asked to provide opportunities for persons to vote by affidavit ballot in those instances in which the voter made a credible challenge to his or her removal from the voter registration rolls.
Inadequate supervision of Division of Elections staff allowed irresponsible decisions to be made, including an official of the Division of Elections encouraging an error-laden strategy that resulted in the removal of a disproportionate number of eligible African American voters from the rolls.
State officials should have provided adequate training to supervisors of elections in purge verification procedures.
So, besides a few people having to hold on the phone for more than 10 minutes, there isn't very much concrete evidence that a significant amount of voters were disenfranchised. This prompted the harsh dissent on the report findings. -
Re:Use open source in governmentI think you also missed this part:
The report does not find that the highest officials of the state conspired to disenfranchise voters. Moreover, even if it was foreseeable that certain actions by officials led to voter disenfranchisement, this alone does not mean that intentional discrimination occurred...
It is impossible to determine the extent of the disenfranchisement or to provide an adequate remedy to the persons whose voices were silenced by injustice, ineptitude, and inefficiency.
In fact, read the entire summary of the USCCR report. You will find such damning stories like:
A poll worker in Palm Beach County testified that she had to use her personal cell phone to attempt to contact the election supervisor's office. Despite trying all day, she only got through two or three times over the course of 12 hours.
One potential voter waited hours at the polls because of a registration mix-up as poll workers attempted to call the office of the supervisor of elections. The call never got through and the individual was not allowed to vote. A former poll worker herself, she testified that she never saw anything like it during her 18 years as a poll worker.
A poll worker in Miami-Dade County with 15 years of experience testified, "By far this was the worst election I have ever experienced. After that election, I decided I didn't want to work as a clerk anymore."
Take note of the secion titled "Purging Former Felons from the Voter Rolls". Note that they failed to come up with a single name of any individual who was incorrectly added to the rolls. The only recommendations are:
The Division of Elections failed to recommend the same cautionary steps before the November 2000 presidential election that were taken before the 1998 election. At that time, supervisors of elections were asked to verify the exclusion lists with the greatest of care. They were asked to provide opportunities for persons to vote by affidavit ballot in those instances in which the voter made a credible challenge to his or her removal from the voter registration rolls.
Inadequate supervision of Division of Elections staff allowed irresponsible decisions to be made, including an official of the Division of Elections encouraging an error-laden strategy that resulted in the removal of a disproportionate number of eligible African American voters from the rolls.
State officials should have provided adequate training to supervisors of elections in purge verification procedures.
So, besides a few people having to hold on the phone for more than 10 minutes, there isn't very much concrete evidence that a significant amount of voters were disenfranchised. This prompted the harsh dissent on the report findings. -
Re:Use open source in government
Jeb Bush and co. worked to get thousands of black voters disenfranchised by removing their names from the voting rolls if they had a name similar to that of a convicted felon
NO! First of all, when the (Democrat majority) USCCR held hearings on the Florida election, they were not able to find a single person that was disenfranchised by the felon list. Nobody was removed from the voter registration just because their name "sounded like" a convicted felon- you are confusing 2 seperate lists.
List #1- The Felon list that a 1998 Florida statute required the state to compile. This was a list of possible felons (including people names similar to convicted felons). The intent of this list was to get as many possible matches as they could, but being on this list DID NOT mean you were prevented from voting. This list was then forwarded to the individual county elections supervisors, and they were required to verify the names as actual convicted felons BEFORE any action was taken.
List #2- The actual voter registration. Only people on the felon list that were verified by the individual counties as actual felons were removed from this list, and even then they were given 30 days written notice with a process to appeal.
An Jeb Bush had absolutely nothing to do with this. You might recall that the legislature passes laws, not the Governor. And the firm that compiled the list (DBT) was contracted by a democrat named Ethel Baxtor. And the individual county supervisors (many of which are democrats) made the final decision on the names. This is not a huge Republican conspiracy.
Bush worked to maximize the number of overseas ballots in counties he won, he also worked to disenfranchise military ballots in counties Gore had won
To quote from the times article that you cited, "The Times study found no evidence of vote fraud by either party."
And before I get lambasted by conservatives, consider the following: how would you react if you heard that the CEO of the company supplying voting equipment wrote in a Democratic fund raising letter that he was committed to helping Hillary Clinton win the presidency in 2004? You'd be a little nervous, and a lot pissed.
Do you honestly think that #1, diebold is going to rig the election for Republicans, and #2, the CEO would publically announce his intentions to rig the election for the Republicans 2 years before the election? -
Re:That's a good one
Wrong. The lists were not checked. That is what the private company that was contracted to do the checking, DPT, was paid $4 million dollars for.
I'm sorry, but take the 2 seconds to read the 1998 Florida Statute that called for the creation of this list. It clearly states that the names on the list must be verified by the individual county elections supervisors before action is taken. Many of the county elections supervisors are democrats- are they a part of this big conspiracy to help Bush win?
They were *paid* not to check the rosters by telephone. There is a data trail, a letter from Jeb Bush to K. Harris, to prove this
Of course- it wasn't their job to verify the names. They were contracted to find as many *possible* matches as they could. It was up to the county supervisors to verify the names.
mistakes, when checked, added up to 95% error rate. It was voter fraud
To date, not a single innocent person has been found that was actually kept from voting because of the list. There is no fraud.
The man who gave out the contract was named Clayton Roberts and he was assistant to K. Harris. He was not a Dem. Harris was the state chair of the Bush campaign in FL.
I'm sorry, but that is just incorrect. DBT was contracted to make the list before Harris was even elected.
The contract was not put out to bid and the owners of the company in question, DBT, were all Republicans.
Thats actually a pretty dubious claim. Greg Palast claims that the company is "packed with republican stars", and he gives 2 names to "prove" this:
- Ken Langone, who worked on Giuliani's senate campaign, but Palast fails to mention that Langone also donated money to Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign as well as several democratic senators
- Rick Rozar, who has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Republican party. But Palast doesn't mention that Rozar wasn't even affiliated with DBT when they were awarded the contract. He joined DBT when his company was taken over by them a full year after the contract was awarded.
Thats not really strong evidence that the company is "all Republicans" like you claim.
The NAACP got an undisclosed settlement for voter's rights violations.
Funny you should mention that- the NAACP also stated VERY clearly in their settlement that they "have not alleged that Defendants acted in a purposefully discriminatory manner toward any group."
If they didn't find anyone it must've been for the same reason the Warren Commission didn't find anyone who heard shots coming from in front of the JFK motorcade.
Getting a commission to whitewash something is no big deal. Par for the course
Holy cow- read the report. It was (along party lines) extremely critical of the Florida elections process. They would have loved to find something like that. Just look at the dissenting statement to see how partisan the report was.
In order for this to be the big scandal that you seem to think it is, the following would have to be true:
- The legislature that passed the bi-partisan law in 1998 was a part of the conspiracy
- The Democrat that hired DBT was part of the conspiracy
- Every county elections supervisor that was a Democrat was also in on the plot to elect Bush
- There would actually have been people incorrectly prevented from voting because of the list
Since I don't see any of these as being true, I dismiss this crap as sour grapes by the losers. -
Re:That's a good one
Wrong. The lists were not checked. That is what the private company that was contracted to do the checking, DPT, was paid $4 million dollars for.
I'm sorry, but take the 2 seconds to read the 1998 Florida Statute that called for the creation of this list. It clearly states that the names on the list must be verified by the individual county elections supervisors before action is taken. Many of the county elections supervisors are democrats- are they a part of this big conspiracy to help Bush win?
They were *paid* not to check the rosters by telephone. There is a data trail, a letter from Jeb Bush to K. Harris, to prove this
Of course- it wasn't their job to verify the names. They were contracted to find as many *possible* matches as they could. It was up to the county supervisors to verify the names.
mistakes, when checked, added up to 95% error rate. It was voter fraud
To date, not a single innocent person has been found that was actually kept from voting because of the list. There is no fraud.
The man who gave out the contract was named Clayton Roberts and he was assistant to K. Harris. He was not a Dem. Harris was the state chair of the Bush campaign in FL.
I'm sorry, but that is just incorrect. DBT was contracted to make the list before Harris was even elected.
The contract was not put out to bid and the owners of the company in question, DBT, were all Republicans.
Thats actually a pretty dubious claim. Greg Palast claims that the company is "packed with republican stars", and he gives 2 names to "prove" this:
- Ken Langone, who worked on Giuliani's senate campaign, but Palast fails to mention that Langone also donated money to Bill Clinton's 1996 campaign as well as several democratic senators
- Rick Rozar, who has donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the Republican party. But Palast doesn't mention that Rozar wasn't even affiliated with DBT when they were awarded the contract. He joined DBT when his company was taken over by them a full year after the contract was awarded.
Thats not really strong evidence that the company is "all Republicans" like you claim.
The NAACP got an undisclosed settlement for voter's rights violations.
Funny you should mention that- the NAACP also stated VERY clearly in their settlement that they "have not alleged that Defendants acted in a purposefully discriminatory manner toward any group."
If they didn't find anyone it must've been for the same reason the Warren Commission didn't find anyone who heard shots coming from in front of the JFK motorcade.
Getting a commission to whitewash something is no big deal. Par for the course
Holy cow- read the report. It was (along party lines) extremely critical of the Florida elections process. They would have loved to find something like that. Just look at the dissenting statement to see how partisan the report was.
In order for this to be the big scandal that you seem to think it is, the following would have to be true:
- The legislature that passed the bi-partisan law in 1998 was a part of the conspiracy
- The Democrat that hired DBT was part of the conspiracy
- Every county elections supervisor that was a Democrat was also in on the plot to elect Bush
- There would actually have been people incorrectly prevented from voting because of the list
Since I don't see any of these as being true, I dismiss this crap as sour grapes by the losers. -
Re:Won't Prevent Voter Fraud
I'll respond to points 2 & 3.
The reason I've been told that one isn't allowed to ask for an ID to vote is that it would be a violation of the Constitution - specifically, the 24th Amendment.
Now, you're asking yourself, "why would asking for an ID violate the prohibition of poll taxes?" Think about the time you got (or last renewed) your driver's licence. It wasn't free, was it? Ta-dah! A poll tax.
So, if you've got to show a photo ID to vote, the state's got to provide a free photo ID. And most states right now are too broke to even think about something like this.
And as far as point 3 - Purging of the voting roles led to big problems in the 2000 election in Florida. Basically, some voters that shouldn't have been purged were purged. When they showed up to vote, they were told they couldn't. Big disaster. I suspect most places would rather have voting roles with ineligible voters (99.99% of whom won't show up to vote, because they've moved or are dead - and if "they" do show up, it's unlikely anyone will find out about it, thus causing problems for the officials running the election) than voting roles missing eligible voters (who will make a huge stink if they show up and are told they can't vote, which will cause a problem for the officials running the election).
You can read about the Florida voting list purge here if you wish, and check the mention in the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights' report here. -
Re:bound for corruptionWell, aside from its partisan conclusions, I thought the USCCR actually backs up his "version" pretty well.
And don't be fooled- that USCCR report is nothing more than a partisan attack by some bitter democrats. In fact, the only republican on the commission solidly thrashed the conclusions in her dissenting opinion.
There are a lot of people that disagree with the findings of that commission. Here is a statistical analysis by a Yale professor that comes to the exact opposite conclusion as the USCCR:It is difficult to see any evidence that African-Americans in Florida were systematically discriminated against in terms of voting. Even assuming that cross-sectional evidence is useful in evaluating this claim, it appears more consistent with indicating that the problem was worst in those counties where African-Americans were county election supervisors. It is difficult to reconcile that evidence with some notion that there was intent to disqualify African-American voters. The panel data makes it very difficult to ascertain any systematic bias either intentional or unintentional against African-American voters.
There may be imperfections in our voting system, and those should be addressed (and some of them have been citing that NAACP settlement referenced by the parent), but this is a total non-story to the partisan whiners that want to make this into a huge right-wing conspiracy- the facts just dont support that. -
US Commision on Civil RIghts begs to differYou must have information that the US Commission on Civil Rights didn't have. You see, they found widespread evidence of voter fraud and voter disenfranchisement, most of it directed at the black community.
Here's the top of their site. Here's their table of contents for the 2000 election. Here's their report on voting irregularities.
This might be the best report because it was written shortly after the election when the outrage was still fresh. Their later reports try to use language as neutral as possible. This report is still prominent on their site so I don't think they've renounced any of it. Here's a quote:
In total, over 100 witnesses testified under oath before the Commission, including approximately 65 scheduled witnesses who were selected for the two hearings due to their knowledge of and/or experience with the issues under investigation. The Commission heard testimony from top elected and appointed state officials, including the Governor, the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Director of the Florida Division of Elections and other Florida state and county officials. A representative of Database Technologies, Inc. [Choicepoint], a firm involved in the controversial, state-sponsored removal of felons from the voter registration rolls also testified.
We also heard the sworn testimony of registered voters and experts on election reform issues, election laws and procedures and voting rights. Also, the Chair and Executive Director of the Select Task Force on Election Reforms established by Governor Jeb Bush testified before the Commission. Testimony was also received from the supervisors of elections for several counties, county commission officials, law enforcement personnel, and a states attorney. In addition to the scheduled witnesses, the Commission extended an opportunity for concerned persons, including Members of Congress and members of the Florida State Legislature, to submit testimony under oath that was germane to the issues under investigation. Significantly, the Commission subpoenaed scores of relevant documents to assist with this investigation.
The evidence points to an array of problems, including those in the following categories:
-
- Key officials anticipated before Election Day, that there would be an increase in levels of voter turnout based upon new voter registration figures, but did not ensure that the precincts in all communities received adequate resources to meet their needs;
- At least one unauthorized law enforcement checkpoint was set up on Election Day resulting in complaints that were investigated by the Florida Highway Patrol and the Florida Attorney General;
- Non-felons were removed from voter registration rolls based upon unreliable information collected in connection with sweeping, state sponsored felony purge policies;
- Many African Americans did not cast ballots because they were assigned to polling sites that did not have adequate resources to confirm voting eligibility status;
- College students and others submitted voter registration applications on a timely basis to persons and agencies responsible for transmitting the applications to the proper officials, but in many instances these applications were not processed in a timely or proper manner under the National Voter Registration Act ("motor-voter law");
- Many Jewish and elderly voters received defective and complicated ballots that may have produced "overvotes" and "undervotes;"
- Some polling places were closed early and some polling places were moved without notice;
- Old and defective election equipment was found in poor precincts;
- Many Haitian Americans and Puerto Rican v
-
-
US Commision on Civil RIghts begs to differYou must have information that the US Commission on Civil Rights didn't have. You see, they found widespread evidence of voter fraud and voter disenfranchisement, most of it directed at the black community.
Here's the top of their site. Here's their table of contents for the 2000 election. Here's their report on voting irregularities.
This might be the best report because it was written shortly after the election when the outrage was still fresh. Their later reports try to use language as neutral as possible. This report is still prominent on their site so I don't think they've renounced any of it. Here's a quote:
In total, over 100 witnesses testified under oath before the Commission, including approximately 65 scheduled witnesses who were selected for the two hearings due to their knowledge of and/or experience with the issues under investigation. The Commission heard testimony from top elected and appointed state officials, including the Governor, the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Director of the Florida Division of Elections and other Florida state and county officials. A representative of Database Technologies, Inc. [Choicepoint], a firm involved in the controversial, state-sponsored removal of felons from the voter registration rolls also testified.
We also heard the sworn testimony of registered voters and experts on election reform issues, election laws and procedures and voting rights. Also, the Chair and Executive Director of the Select Task Force on Election Reforms established by Governor Jeb Bush testified before the Commission. Testimony was also received from the supervisors of elections for several counties, county commission officials, law enforcement personnel, and a states attorney. In addition to the scheduled witnesses, the Commission extended an opportunity for concerned persons, including Members of Congress and members of the Florida State Legislature, to submit testimony under oath that was germane to the issues under investigation. Significantly, the Commission subpoenaed scores of relevant documents to assist with this investigation.
The evidence points to an array of problems, including those in the following categories:
-
- Key officials anticipated before Election Day, that there would be an increase in levels of voter turnout based upon new voter registration figures, but did not ensure that the precincts in all communities received adequate resources to meet their needs;
- At least one unauthorized law enforcement checkpoint was set up on Election Day resulting in complaints that were investigated by the Florida Highway Patrol and the Florida Attorney General;
- Non-felons were removed from voter registration rolls based upon unreliable information collected in connection with sweeping, state sponsored felony purge policies;
- Many African Americans did not cast ballots because they were assigned to polling sites that did not have adequate resources to confirm voting eligibility status;
- College students and others submitted voter registration applications on a timely basis to persons and agencies responsible for transmitting the applications to the proper officials, but in many instances these applications were not processed in a timely or proper manner under the National Voter Registration Act ("motor-voter law");
- Many Jewish and elderly voters received defective and complicated ballots that may have produced "overvotes" and "undervotes;"
- Some polling places were closed early and some polling places were moved without notice;
- Old and defective election equipment was found in poor precincts;
- Many Haitian Americans and Puerto Rican v
-
-
US Commision on Civil RIghts begs to differYou must have information that the US Commission on Civil Rights didn't have. You see, they found widespread evidence of voter fraud and voter disenfranchisement, most of it directed at the black community.
Here's the top of their site. Here's their table of contents for the 2000 election. Here's their report on voting irregularities.
This might be the best report because it was written shortly after the election when the outrage was still fresh. Their later reports try to use language as neutral as possible. This report is still prominent on their site so I don't think they've renounced any of it. Here's a quote:
In total, over 100 witnesses testified under oath before the Commission, including approximately 65 scheduled witnesses who were selected for the two hearings due to their knowledge of and/or experience with the issues under investigation. The Commission heard testimony from top elected and appointed state officials, including the Governor, the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Director of the Florida Division of Elections and other Florida state and county officials. A representative of Database Technologies, Inc. [Choicepoint], a firm involved in the controversial, state-sponsored removal of felons from the voter registration rolls also testified.
We also heard the sworn testimony of registered voters and experts on election reform issues, election laws and procedures and voting rights. Also, the Chair and Executive Director of the Select Task Force on Election Reforms established by Governor Jeb Bush testified before the Commission. Testimony was also received from the supervisors of elections for several counties, county commission officials, law enforcement personnel, and a states attorney. In addition to the scheduled witnesses, the Commission extended an opportunity for concerned persons, including Members of Congress and members of the Florida State Legislature, to submit testimony under oath that was germane to the issues under investigation. Significantly, the Commission subpoenaed scores of relevant documents to assist with this investigation.
The evidence points to an array of problems, including those in the following categories:
-
- Key officials anticipated before Election Day, that there would be an increase in levels of voter turnout based upon new voter registration figures, but did not ensure that the precincts in all communities received adequate resources to meet their needs;
- At least one unauthorized law enforcement checkpoint was set up on Election Day resulting in complaints that were investigated by the Florida Highway Patrol and the Florida Attorney General;
- Non-felons were removed from voter registration rolls based upon unreliable information collected in connection with sweeping, state sponsored felony purge policies;
- Many African Americans did not cast ballots because they were assigned to polling sites that did not have adequate resources to confirm voting eligibility status;
- College students and others submitted voter registration applications on a timely basis to persons and agencies responsible for transmitting the applications to the proper officials, but in many instances these applications were not processed in a timely or proper manner under the National Voter Registration Act ("motor-voter law");
- Many Jewish and elderly voters received defective and complicated ballots that may have produced "overvotes" and "undervotes;"
- Some polling places were closed early and some polling places were moved without notice;
- Old and defective election equipment was found in poor precincts;
- Many Haitian Americans and Puerto Rican v
-
-
US Commision on Civil RIghts begs to differYou must have information that the US Commission on Civil Rights didn't have. You see, they found widespread evidence of voter fraud and voter disenfranchisement, most of it directed at the black community.
Here's the top of their site. Here's their table of contents for the 2000 election. Here's their report on voting irregularities.
This might be the best report because it was written shortly after the election when the outrage was still fresh. Their later reports try to use language as neutral as possible. This report is still prominent on their site so I don't think they've renounced any of it. Here's a quote:
In total, over 100 witnesses testified under oath before the Commission, including approximately 65 scheduled witnesses who were selected for the two hearings due to their knowledge of and/or experience with the issues under investigation. The Commission heard testimony from top elected and appointed state officials, including the Governor, the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, the Director of the Florida Division of Elections and other Florida state and county officials. A representative of Database Technologies, Inc. [Choicepoint], a firm involved in the controversial, state-sponsored removal of felons from the voter registration rolls also testified.
We also heard the sworn testimony of registered voters and experts on election reform issues, election laws and procedures and voting rights. Also, the Chair and Executive Director of the Select Task Force on Election Reforms established by Governor Jeb Bush testified before the Commission. Testimony was also received from the supervisors of elections for several counties, county commission officials, law enforcement personnel, and a states attorney. In addition to the scheduled witnesses, the Commission extended an opportunity for concerned persons, including Members of Congress and members of the Florida State Legislature, to submit testimony under oath that was germane to the issues under investigation. Significantly, the Commission subpoenaed scores of relevant documents to assist with this investigation.
The evidence points to an array of problems, including those in the following categories:
-
- Key officials anticipated before Election Day, that there would be an increase in levels of voter turnout based upon new voter registration figures, but did not ensure that the precincts in all communities received adequate resources to meet their needs;
- At least one unauthorized law enforcement checkpoint was set up on Election Day resulting in complaints that were investigated by the Florida Highway Patrol and the Florida Attorney General;
- Non-felons were removed from voter registration rolls based upon unreliable information collected in connection with sweeping, state sponsored felony purge policies;
- Many African Americans did not cast ballots because they were assigned to polling sites that did not have adequate resources to confirm voting eligibility status;
- College students and others submitted voter registration applications on a timely basis to persons and agencies responsible for transmitting the applications to the proper officials, but in many instances these applications were not processed in a timely or proper manner under the National Voter Registration Act ("motor-voter law");
- Many Jewish and elderly voters received defective and complicated ballots that may have produced "overvotes" and "undervotes;"
- Some polling places were closed early and some polling places were moved without notice;
- Old and defective election equipment was found in poor precincts;
- Many Haitian Americans and Puerto Rican v
-
-
cheezy crap
Try this link florida voting irregularities
There were 3600 complaints.
The complaints from the supervisors of elections and from Floridians in the aftermath of the election illustrate that indifferent attitudes and careless practices prevailed over the more cautious approach for the protection of voting rights advocated by Ms. Baxter. [she advocated leaving a voter on the roll if in doubt, or allowing them to vote using and affadavit]
According to Linda Howell it can take 6 months or more to get back on the list if you are incorrectly removed from it, ie the falsely removed would not have been able to get back on the roll in time for the election anyway. And there is no uniform system across Florida (let alone the rest of the country) for getting removed from the roll or getting re-instated.
The link clearly shows that the people most affected were black and these would mostly have voted democrat, more than enough stuff ups to overturn the result.
But as you said, perhaps in Florida they don't have to bother with a vote at all.
Which is even more frightening that what did happen.
We should be more scared of people with cars than iraqis or al quaeda. And we should be more frightened of laws that remove our freedoms in order to "protect" them.
Interesting that they protect the freedom of the likes of Mrs Jeb Bush, caught sneaking $19000 worth of jewelry in to the USA without declaring it for paying the tax on it - a felony. Caught, I guess, but presumably not punished by having her name removed from the roll.
-
Re:Fast Facts
Having followed this working group and report with some interest (familiar with the MIT side faculty involved), I find it extremely faulty. They chose to focus on something that truly has very little to do with the problems they cite. Voting irregularies in the US, in general, have very little to do with the voting technologies themselves. Highly accurate and (long term) inexpensive technologies (ie, optical scanners) have been available for 20+ years. However, these technologies are not distributed equally. Further, the report cites that in fact 3 million (at least half) of the missing votes were due to problems in registration or on election day (ie, turned away at the polls). Florida had a fairly technologically advanced system of laptops and a centralized comptuer database in place. However, these resources were again not distributed equally. In fact, in both cases, these problems were concentrated in areas of high concentrations of people of color, people or low income and immigrants. This MIT/CalTech report had no information that voting rights advocates having been shouting for at least three decades. For a complete look at what made up the problems in Florida, see this report from the United States Commission on Civil Rights. I would of course add that any state, were its election procedures put under such intense scrutiny as Florida, would have such irregularies come up.
-
Re:Fast Facts
Having followed this working group and report with some interest (familiar with the MIT side faculty involved), I find it extremely faulty. They chose to focus on something that truly has very little to do with the problems they cite. Voting irregularies in the US, in general, have very little to do with the voting technologies themselves. Highly accurate and (long term) inexpensive technologies (ie, optical scanners) have been available for 20+ years. However, these technologies are not distributed equally. Further, the report cites that in fact 3 million (at least half) of the missing votes were due to problems in registration or on election day (ie, turned away at the polls). Florida had a fairly technologically advanced system of laptops and a centralized comptuer database in place. However, these resources were again not distributed equally. In fact, in both cases, these problems were concentrated in areas of high concentrations of people of color, people or low income and immigrants. This MIT/CalTech report had no information that voting rights advocates having been shouting for at least three decades. For a complete look at what made up the problems in Florida, see this report from the United States Commission on Civil Rights. I would of course add that any state, were its election procedures put under such intense scrutiny as Florida, would have such irregularies come up.