Domain: xmlguru.cz
Stories and comments across the archive that link to xmlguru.cz.
Comments · 10
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Re:Personal Attacks?
Baseless accusations of bribery, et al, might be considered personal attacks by those on the receiving end.
The problem is that your accusations of bribery, et al, are so vague, that you're painting everyone that voted YES with the "corruption" brush. I wish you guys would man up and make a specific corruption charge against specific individuals.
For example, the Czech Republic's expert, Jiri Kosek, explained in great detail why the Czech Republic switched from NO to YES:
http://xmlguru.cz/2008/01/ecma-response-to-czech-ooxml-comments
Well, according to you guys, nobody in his right mind would switch from NO to YES without being bribed (or whatever), so let's get specific. Are you accusing Jiri Kosek of accepting a bribe, yes or no?
Sure, it's easy to accuse Microsoft of bribing "people" (since Microsoft is hated around here anyway, such a vague accusation will increase your karma), but bribery it is a two-way street. By accusing Microsoft of bribing people, you are also accusing someone of accepting those bribes. Don't you think that those that voted YES have a right to be offended by your accusations that they took bribes?
If you would make specific charges, naming the individuals that accepted bribes (and provide some details, like the dollar amounts that changed hands), then you'd have more credibility, wouldn't be painting everyone with the "corruption" brush, and would give those specifically accused a chance to defend themselves. But as it is, you guys don't have the evidence or guts to make specific charges against specific people (like Jiri Kosek), so you make these vague unsupported charges. -
Nice way to astoturf
For example, the Czech Republic voted NO in September, but switched to YES. Why? Because nearly every one of their issues have been addressed now. http://xmlguru.cz/2008/01/ecma-response-to-czech-ooxml-comments Do you really expect the Czech Republic to continue to oppose OOXML when nearly all of its objections to the original spec have been fixed? Why would they do that? The problems were fixed, so they switched to YES, and this was the case with many countries (those without a political agenda).
Were they fixed? Really? Like the other 98% of the comments, that were "fixed" even nobody reading the "fix" due to lack of time?
Did you know that they had to vote NO if any one of their issues weren't fixed? "Nearly every one" doesn't cut it. Also, they could vote NO even if all of their issues were solved just because they discovered a new one, or because they think some other problem that wasn't fixed is important.
Now, how did the Czech Republic know that their issues were fixed if nobody readed the final document before voting?
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Re:Stop crying, people. Start being HONEST."what non-bribed ISO member would say now "wow, they adressed so many complaints that I can go from a 'no' vote to a 'yes' vote"?"
The Czech Republic, for one.
http://xmlguru.cz/2008/01/ecma-response-to-czech-ooxml-comments ECMA already provided proposed resolution for 75 comments (out of total 75 Czech comments). This means that 100.00% of Czech comments were handled by ECMA.
90.67% of comments were satisfactory resolved.
8.00% of comments were resolved only partially.
1.33% of comments were not satisfactory resolved.
...
In fact I was really surprised how many "green boxes" are there at the end. I was expecting that ECMA will properly address only part of our comments. The vast majority of Czech comments was addressed by ECMA so it is time to say yes to OOXML. The countries that switched from NO to YES did so on the merits of the improvements that were made, not based on "bribes". That you and the others are actually accusing (both implicitly and explicitly) the Czech Republic and others that switched from NO to YES of taking bribes and whatnot with zero evidence is outrageous. -
Re:Abandon All Hope"Cue persistent formal requests to MS for specification details regarding "auto space like Word 95" et al. It's obviously the first step on the road to litigation/anti-trust cases."
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This shows your ignorance (and that of the general slashdot population). The "auto space like Word 95" issue has been addressed in the latest spec (the spec that's beeen approved). That "auto space like Word 95" behavior, and the others like it, are now marked as "deprecated" (i.e. should not use for new documents) AND are fully spec'ed. Compatibility Settings - AutoSpaceLikeWord95
There has also been a lot of interest in the Compatibility Settings that include the famous "AutoSpaceLikeWord95" or "truncateFontHeightsLikeWP6". Ecma worked to provide in this batch the full information necessary to implement all compatibility settings without any dependency on any product. This documentation is provided for the completeness of the spec, but these features should not be used when creating new documents. I'll discuss the compatibility settings in more detail in my next post And here are further details.
See, this is the problem: So many of you that are railing against OOXML and against the ISO process are completely ignorant of the facts on the ground. The technical issues that you claimed to be concerned with have been addressed. So there's no technical reason to reject OOXML (there may be *political* reasons, but such reasons should have no bearing on ISO).
For example, the Czech Republic voted NO in September, but switched to YES. Why? Because nearly every one of their issues have been addressed now.
http://xmlguru.cz/2008/01/ecma-response-to-czech-ooxml-comments
Do you really expect the Czech Republic to continue to oppose OOXML when nearly all of its objections to the original spec have been fixed? Why would they do that? The problems were fixed, so they switched to YES, and this was the case with many countries (those without a political agenda).
It's like you guys are impervious to the fact that the OOXML spec has been quite improved (and that you're ranting about some old issue like "auto space like Word 95", an issue that has been resolved, *proves* it). Maybe, just maybe, if you took some time to learn the facts, learn how the spec has been changed since Sept, you'd not be so against OOXML (unless, as I suspect, your opposition is due to *political* reasons, under the mere guise of technical reasons). -
Czech Republic's expert disagrees wholeheartedlySorry, but this is bullshit, as is to be expected from Rob Weir.
Jií Kosek, the Czech Republic's expert, disagrees. He has switched from NO to YES due to OOXML's fixes, and he's unbiased (quite unlike Rob Weir). Here's what he has to say on the matter:
http://xmlguru.cz/2008/01/ecma-response-to-czech-ooxml-comments
Read that post and you see that nearly every one of the Czech Republic's objections has been addressed (the only one not satisfactorily addressed was the Czech Republic's complaint that part of the spec has redundant info). Let me quote:ECMA already provided proposed resolution for 75 comments (out of total 75 Czech comments). This means that 100.00% of Czech comments were handled by ECMA.
90.67% of comments were satisfactory resolved.
8.00% of comments were resolved only partially.
1.33% of comments were not satisfactory resolved. ... ...
In fact I was really surprised how many "green boxes" are there at the end. I was expecting that ECMA will properly address only part of our comments. The vast majority of Czech comments was addressed by ECMA so it is time to say yes to OOXML.
Rob Weir is not an objective source, period. Cite an objective source if you want your criticisms to carry any weight outside of the "I Hate Microsoft" crowd. -
Your "Czech expert" says NOTHING of substance
You bring up this link: http://xmlguru.cz/2008/01/ecma-response-to-czech-ooxml-comments
Have you actually tried to open the PDF files with "Proposed dispositions" that the page links to? You cannot, because they are password protected. No one knows what these dispositions are, and even if they exist at all. We only have to believe the words of this so called "expert" and have no way to check them. -
Czech Republic's expert disagrees wholeheartedlySorry, but this is bullshit.
Quoting from zmotula's post:
"...see the post by the guy who evaluated the OOXML specification for the Czech Normalization Institute. This means that Czech Republic is most probably going to vote for OOXML when the time comes."
Read that post and you see that nearly every one of the Czech Republic's objections has been addressed (the only one not satisfactorily addressed was the Czech Republic's complaint that part of the spec has redundant info). Let me quote:ECMA already provided proposed resolution for 75 comments (out of total 75 Czech comments). This means that 100.00% of Czech comments were handled by ECMA.
90.67% of comments were satisfactory resolved.
8.00% of comments were resolved only partially.
1.33% of comments were not satisfactory resolved. ... ...
In fact I was really surprised how many "green boxes" are there at the end. I was expecting that ECMA will properly address only part of our comments. The vast majority of Czech comments was addressed by ECMA so it is time to say yes to OOXML. -
footnotes like Word 95...
How will this work with specifications that say "render text like Word 98?"
As covered in this link, it appears that most of these specifications have either been removed or documented. What this does mean is that perhaps it will be possible to truly understand what these formatting hooks refer to, not what MS have documented them as referring to...
(Thanks to zmotula for the link)
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Opening up OOXML
The worst proprietary 'hooks' such as 'footnoteLayoutLikeWW8', 'lineWrapLikeWord6' and 'useWord97LineBreakRules', appear now to have been documented - see this link. This in effect means that some of the quirkier behaviour of old versions of MS Office may now have been made public (difficult to say for sure as the ECMA resolution is behind a passworded site).
Microsoft would make their, and everyone else's, lives a lot easier if they went the whole way and documented the entire depreciated office formats, allowing others to write filters to correctly interpret them. This would also give them a foothold in claiming that the tags above truly do point to an open format, since the behaviours they refer to would be openly documented.
But let's not hold our breath.
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Czech comments resolved by the ECMA
...see the post by the guy who evaluated the OOXML specification for the Czech Normalization Institute. This means that Czech Republic is most probably going to vote for OOXML when the time comes.