Heart Attacks as Treatments

cannon_trodder writes "Just caught a story at the BBC which explains how surgeons are going to be demonstrating a surgical technique that involves deliberately inducing a heart attack in order to remove over-thickened tissue in the heart. The article also explains that the 3 procedures will be transmitted directly to a cardiology conference with the 100 delegates able to ask questions during the op. 'If it ain't fixed, break it.'"

Comments

Similar to shock treatments

[mfos.org]

Two psychiatrists (whose names escape me) noticed that after having seizures, patients would become more docile. They also noticed that in slaughter houses when the cattle where killed by means of a sledge hammer to the head, they appeared to have seizures.

Realizing that they couldn't strike people over the head too often before permanent damage resulted, they resorted to electrical shocks, and electro-shock therapy was born.

Re:Similar to shock treatments

[DNS-and-BIND]

They also noticed that the inmates of insane asylums masturbated openly and frequently, leading to the conclusion that masturbation leads to insanity.

Re:Similar to shock treatments

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it had nothing to do with docility, it had to do with schizophrenia. The psychiatrists of the time noted that some people have seizures, and some schizophrenia, and they were damned if they knew why. But, the two did not occur in the same person, so they reasoned, maybe if we can induce a seizure in medical environment, we can eliminate the schizoid symptoms. The first such uses involved insulin injections, which could cause convulsions severe enough to crack the spine of the patient or kill them. Later, electroshock therapy was invented as a much safer alternative, although it was frequently abused by psychiatric staff who used it for punishment. Your lines about cranial trauma seizures leading directly to electroshock are wrong.

Re:My.

[isorox]

Chewey.

Other over-thickened tissue

[Myco]

Inducing a heart attack to get rid of over-thickened tissue in the heart, that's a good idea. But can it get rid of over-thickened tissue elsewhere, say in the skull? I can think of a certain president who could do with some de-thickening, and this sounds like just the right procedure.

(Sorry, couldn't help it.)

alcohol == ethanol

[scaryman]

when reading this article (and many like it) it would be nice if they said what type of alcohol is used ( ethanol, methanol etc). At least this old link mentions this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/health/newsid_8 32 000/832188.stm

I was also left wondering if the broadcast would be available outside the conference, it appears not.

Live on satelliite television?

[2g3-598hX]

The procedure (injecting the heart with alcohol) is interesting but also interesting is that it will be performed in front of 3000 delegates of the European Society of Cardiology conference who will "ask questions and offer advice".

If only computer trade shows were this exciting...

Re:Live on satelliite television?

[Anonymous Coward]

What fool volunteered to have a heart operation in front of 3000 witnesses?

Quick Correction - Re:Similar to shock treatments

[mfos.org]

It was only the cows that didn't immediatly die that had the seizures, sometimes the blows wouldn't kill the animal.

100% proof alcohol

[macdaddy357]

Just waht is 100% proof alcohol? 100% alcohol would be 200 proof. They will inject it into the heart to cause cardiac arrest. I hope they know what it is first.

Re:100% proof alcohol

[hplasm]

100% proof is like cubic liters...

...and snake oil is real, and it works.

[uncoveror]

Heart attacks can be used as a treatment to cure heart disease. If you are blown away by that, you should also know that snake oil is real, and it works!

Re:...and snake oil is real, and it works.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah that site looks credible, all right. REAL credible. After all, since the oldest medical symbol has two snakes, snake oils must be the panacea he claims!

Re:My.

[Anonymous Coward]

Fat.

Rick Austenson

[Anonymous Coward]

He gets heart attacks from the anal buttsex. Does that mean having anal is now healthy?

Re:Quick Correction - Re:Similar to shock treatmen

[=weezer=]

This is brought up in Kesey's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Of course, these treatments usually render the patient gradually less of a person anyway.

Barney

[ThereIsNoSporkNeo]

Finally! A direct alcohol application system! No more waiting for your slow digestive system. I wonder if they can set this up in an IV system...

As Barney, the perpetual drunkard of the Simpsons would say "JUST TAP IT TO MY VEINS"

how to test this hypothesis�

[Miska]

any volunteers?

.

Re:My.

[Anonymous Coward]

TITS

been done before... sorta.

[dev0n]

there's a drug called Adenosine that is administered to people with certain heart rhythm disorders.

"Adenocard (adenosine injection) exerts its effect by decreasing conduction through the A-V node and may produce a short lasting first-, second- or third-degree heart block."

Source: http://www.fujisawa.com/medinfo/pi/pi_page_ac.htm

it's not the same as injecting alcohol into someone's heart to stop it, but i wanted to point out that stopping someone's heart to "cure" a condition has already been done. :)

and yes, i realize that heart block and heart attack are two separate things, but they both have the same end result: no heartbeat.

Probably not even close, but the application..

[Anonymous Coward]

..I heard stories from military people, who, back in the day, were issued very, very fine, long syringes, filled with all sorts of good stuff.

The idea? In case of biochemical weaponry (gas), unseal wrapper, stab self in heart, inject. IIRC, it was for use against a specific type of gas that would cause the heart to slow/stop. The juice injected supposedly made the heart go mad, thereby preventing it from slowing/stopping.

Now, I can't say if this is true or not, but when I've heard it, it was always spoken of in one of those, "Feh, I'd rather not." tones. I'd imagine it could be bad if you stuck it in too far/missed/whatnot. *chuckle*

Provided this wasn't just all made up, and that the people suggesting loading up the heart with good stuff nowadays aren't crackpots, I'm wondering what else we'll see in regards to pumping stuff directly into really really really vital organs? I'm talking non-surgical here, as far as I know, they already do injections of various types into bits o' vitals once someone's cut open.

Re:Probably not even close, but the application..

[jhampson]

When I was in, they had ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate) auto-injectors. It's for nerve agent attacks. And you'd stick it in your leg, not your heart.

Re:Probably not even close, but the application..

[Fat Casper]

Um... Those were atropine injectors. ATP injectors would be handy to help you run very quickly out of the contaminated area, but ineffective in helping your body break down any nerve agents.

Re:Probably not even close, but the application..

[oldstrat]

jhampson has it right, the LEG not the heart.
And pray that you had time to do it, because by the time symptoms start, you were not likely to have enough muscle control to hit something as big as your thigh, much less the relatively fine motor control needed to prep the injector.
Most of us, I believe resigned to the fact that in a situation where it was needed, you were as good as dead.
The injection would incapacitate you.

Re:Quick Correction - Re:Similar to shock treatmen

[hplasm]

The immediately dead cows never had seizures.... ;->

Re:Nothing strange with cubic liters

[CyberDruid]

[liter^3] = [(dm^3)^3] = [dm^9]
Something must be measured in units of dm^9, right?