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Distance Education - Pros and Cons?
xvrd asks: "I'm Swiss and got an Associates Degree in the US. Now (back in Switzerland) I'm thinking about getting a Bachelor Degree. Going back to the US on a student visa is not an option for several reasons and the programs offered in Switzerland either don't offer the flexibility I want or the classes I'm looking for. After some research I found some online colleges that looked trustworthy and offered interesting programs (Kaplan would even let me transfer all my credits). I've looked into the following colleges:
Kaplan Colleges,
University of Phoenix Online, and the
University of Maryland University College. Before enrolling anywhere I'd like to ask the Slashdot community about their thoughts on Online Education. Any experiences you want to share? How does HR look at Degrees completed entirely online?"
It depends entirely on what you're doing with the degree. I can tell you right now that as a PhD student at a big school, it's not the type of degree but the institution that granted it. In other words, somebody with a BA from a good school is more regarded in academia than someone with an MA from a bad school.
The unfortunate thing is, none of the correspondence/online degrees are from highly regarded schools yet. This is changing slowly - some good schools are beginning to teach online and correspondence courses, but none of them allow an entire degree program that way.
If you're a working stiff looking for a degree for pay/promotion reasons, then probably any would be good but Kaplan is probably the least desirable. However, if you plan ever to go on in academia or really expect your degree to be worth more than just a one-time pay raise, you may consider the investment of a traditional degree.
I did not design this game/I did not name the stakes/I just happen to like apples/And I am not afraid of snakes-AniD
If you are looking for technical, factual, resume-building experience, go for it.
However, in my experience, one of the most important aspects -- perhaps the most important -- of education is peer interaction. Whatever you learn from a textbook and a lecture, you'll learn ten times as much hearing your fellow students' questions, struggling with them over the assignments, and just chatting and exchanging ideas. Education is deeply social.
An online setting can accomplish some of this (as we are now!), but it's no substitute. If you do go the distance route, make sure that you're doing lots of work on the interpersonal side to make up for that missing piece. Be aggressive about getting online with your classmates. Find other people at a similar level or with similar interests in your area. Don't get isolated. Interact.
Here comes the relevant bit. Experts from the employment agency looked at the options including self-studie, evening school, online studie and tutoring. Online studie was dismissed first for the simple reason that unless you already know the subject matter and are just tuning up or are simply brilliant you will need that teachers aid. Now the point of online is that the teacher is supposed to be there, when I looked it was still phone based. The experts just had never seen it work out. I took the experts advise and took a evening self-studie class where there was a professor who helped each in turn. I passed with flying colors.
You are looking to continue a course so perhaps you already know most of it and only need to prepare for the exam, then it may work for you.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
I've done distance learning in the past (at the college & high school levels), and in my experience, it really depends upon what you, and your profesor put into it. If you were to treat your classes as "real" classes, you could probably get a lot out of it, but in my experience, thats not usually how either group treats distance education, so it ends up being a lot like a semester of light study followed by CLEP.
I think Virginia Tech has a remote campus in Switzerland. I don't know if it's open to Swiss students or just to students going abroad.
it's probably best to choose a school that also has a traditional brick & mortar component.
The Maryland school mentioned might be affiliated with UMD -- but it's not clear whether they're two different schools or not. U of Phoenix is like the Internet equivalent of DeVry. I see commercials on TV for both, and they look like clones and use similar pitches. As for Kaplan, I've only ever heard of them back in high school for SAT prep materials, which are typically useless, IMO.
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
There are two big things to keep in mind when looking at getting a degree from an online university. First and foremost, make sure they're an accredited university, otherwise your degree is really just a piece of paper (Which may be all your looking for ;)
Second, if you AREN'T just looking for a piece of paper saying you have a degree, make sure its a real university. I've heard from quite a few people that the University of Phoenix is a "Pay us money get a degree" program. (This also may be fine for you, but just check it out before you leap into it)
In my experience, HR doesn't look any further than what you've written on your resume.
(I would even bet that 90% of the time you could put down some completely fake school and no one would even bother to check.)
I would never do this sort of thing, and I would reccomend no one else do it, but my point is:
If you can get an online degree from the univ of maryland or phoenix, who is going to know whether you got the degree completely online.
As long as the degree is they are offering is just as valid as the ones the people who live in the dorms get, who cares.
All HR cares about is the piece of paper.
This is kind of sad, but after spending a small fortune and graduating from a great school, I have NEVER had any HR people even comment about the school I attended, nor did they really care at the time. Could I do (x,y,z)? Sure. Did I have professional experience doing (x,y,z)? You betcha. Great. Got the job.
It NEVER had anything to do with my college degree or the pedigree of the school I attended.
That being said, do I regret spending that small fortune on a degree that obviously nobody cares about? Not at all. When I stopped having to deal with HR managers and started my own firm, my alma mater and degree became useful in that clients and potential clients that I would meet at conferences and such WOULD ask and recognize my school and realize that I wasn't just some chump that new a bunch of technologies that were taught in some technical school. I had a brain and new how to use it.
With that in mind, it comes down to what your purpose is for attending these distance learning courses. Forget about HR, they dont really care. But if it's just for yourself, I see no reason why not. BUT, look into how the CE credits are furnished. Who is the university furnishing you with CE credits? What is their reputation? And what do those CE credits count towards?
Example: what is the difference between CE credits offered by Kaplan Online vs. Columbia Univ.? Big prestige difference, but technically, you might learn the same stuff in both.
Just some food for thought
The biggest problem I have had with the online classes is, they aren't classes. I have taken a few 'net only classes at my brick and mortar university (VCU). The biggest troube is the class isnt tought like a class. You read alittle bit and then a large amount of homework is given. The professors all used assignments to attemt to take up the slack of no human interaction. In a normal class I would spend about 1 hour studying and about 2 hours (+-) doing assignments. For my online classes I would spend about 4 hours (keep in mind there is no class time so reguard that as 3 class and 1 studying)studying, and usually 5-7 hours on assignments. Several times I had 11-13 hours of assignments to do for one class. The way a professors expect insane repitition of similar execises to make up for not being really tought anything just left a very bad taste in my mouth. Hope your experience goes better.
-- Insert wisdom here:
The University of Maryland University College?
Can I get a Computer Science Degree in the Science of Computer Science Technology?
(BTW, the name of that college *isn't* a typo)
"Moderate drinking can help prevent amputated limbs" -- Abigail Zuger, NYTimes, 12/31/02
This is the path I would take. The UK's Open University (www.open.ac.uk) - which was founded in the 1960s by the British Government to pioneer distance-learning courses - takes students from Switzerland for all its courses.
The degrees - both arts and scientific - you get from the OU certainly are not "toy" degrees - they are run and marked by top academics, and given full weight by (UK) HR deptartments. For example, the OU regularly wins prizes for the quality of its students. It also has taken great pains to combat the disadvantages of distance learning by encouraging online collaboration.
Drew
...but depends on your goals and what you expect to achieve from a degree program. There are more and more "traditional" universities offering online programs, Univ of Maryland at Univ College is one of the good ones. I am currently attending a graduate program at Regis University, and have been very pleased with the experience thus far. Online discussion forums and group activities allow you to interact with other students.
The important thing to note is that in an online setting the mode of teaching is different than a traditional classroom. The professors are more akin to "facilitators" that guide you through the education process, which will typically involve a lot more reading/writing than a classroom based program (at least this has been my experience at Regis). Since you don't show up at a pre-set time to hear a professor in a lecture, you learn from reading, applying what you have read to individual or group projects, and/or on-line research activities, and getting feedback from the on-line professor.
For me, the online choice was the only one possible due to Monday-Friday travel related to work. I have found that is the case with many, but not all, of the classmates that I've had online. Some individuals that I have met dislike online education because of the lack of physical presence of other students, others prefer it over a traditional classroom setting, because they have more time to aborb knowledge over the course of a week while reading on-line forums/books/etc., vs. capturing a significant amount of information during class times.
Just watch out for fly-by-night operations, or "degree mills" - before you join any program I would suggest making sure they are fully accredited by a regional accrediting agency (I believe there are 5 regional boards in the U.S., such as the North Central Assocation of Colleges and Schools).
In addition, search the alt.distance.education newsgroup for information on specific schools/programs that you are researching. You can find a lot of interesting related web sites in that forum.
How do HR departments treat online degrees? Depends on the organization. If the degree is from an accredited university that also offers the same program in a traditional classroom setting, this shouldn't be an issue. If you are interested in more "pure" academia - going back to get a PhD from a traditional university - I get the sense that you might face some resistance, but I think that attitudes are slowly changing. Again, the newsgroup offers a lot of information/opinions on this.
Good luck with your studies.
I think here in the UK the Open University (http://www.open.ac.uk/) is pretty well regarded. It has been around for a long time doing remote degrees.
The Open University generally caters for those who have regular jobs and want to study for a degree in their spare time. Needless to say, that takes a long time and a great deal of motivation and self discipline. Accordingly, as an employer I'd have a lot of respect for anyone who managed to do it successfully.
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After an argument with higher calculus I dropped out of university, got a job, and later picked up my studies part-time by correspondence - the traditional mail, books and paper kind.
If you are a good learner and/or have time to dedicate to your studies (a couple of hours a day, preferably), I think this is an excellent way to go.
I completed my degree through UNISA (the University of South Africa). They offer a number of excellent courses in all faculties, including postgraduate studies; have over 110,000 students, are recognised worldwide and examination centers in many countries.
Some of the faculties are most suited to international students than others. The computer science department, for example, accepts most tutorial submissions online. I see their home page has links for online registration and payment as well.
UNISA will allow you to transfer credits from recognised institutions (up to a maximum of half the total needed for your degree).
This is a bit of a shameless plug, but if you're going to get a qualification, it is worth getting it from a known, recognised and respected institution.
Some information on requirements for foreign (non-SA) students
i-name =twylite [http://public.xdi.org/=twylite], see idcommons.net
There was a study in the American Economic Review that compared student performance in a online course versus a traditional lecture course. They used the same materials and the same professor lecturing, but the online students on average did worse on the final exams. Of course, it all depends on how you learn best, but there is something to be said for interacting directly with the professor, being able to ask questions during and after lectures in person instead of by email. Maybe some HR departments don't care what you learn as long as you have the degree, but why not try to get your money's worth?
I'm taking distance ed courses from NC State University, and the university stands behind whatever grade I'm given for it. The transcript, however, does have an E beside it for extension.
Also, since these are science courses, I'm required to be physically present at the lab in school, so I guess it's not totally distance ed.
Still, it's much more convenient than a regular class, and the people running it don't make you fill out every form in person.
I don't know if they're still doing it, but they used to spam me on a regular basis. I finally got fed up with it and told them I would never go to their university and I would make damn sure that none of my relatives and friends would either if I could help it.
The unsoliticed mail from them finally stopped, but I wonder if their practice of spamming ever did...
The most prestigious degree you can
find has to be the University of London-External Programme. But it probably requires a fair amount of discipline.
It is by coff... er, will, alone I set my mind in motion...
When I was in college (SUNY Oswego) I worked in the Distence Learning Dept. There were some net based classes but some of our classes were via cable TV and PicTel(Sort of Video Conferencing).
The Cable TV classes were in a small studio, the professor would have powerpoint like slides, an ELMO (Kind of like a video overhead projector, he could write on tranparent plastic with a marker like a blackboard) and a phone hybrid for call in questions. I was the tech for this (Switch between sources, audio, video, make sure the cable company had us, ect.) This seemed to work well and we had students throughout upstate NY. They still had that interactive student-teacher relationship.
The other sort was PicTel (Video Conference). There would be a traditional class but would have students particapating from other sites. There were cameras, monitors, and mikes at all sites. The coolest thing was that the teacher would wear a infrared device and the camera would follow her around the room as she talked. She also had an ELMO so all sites could see what she wrote clearly. They also were able to ask questions in real-time.
I got payed for being the tech support for these classes, a good gig for a student at the time ('96 -'98). I think the students got more out of this kind of arrangement than any of the Net based courses. It was more expensive and sometimes buggy (Video COnference hung up on sites sometimes) but I think it was worth it.
I don't know if they still do it but I did interview at a company that was doing something similar with more corporate classes.
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At my community college I took several programming classes online, C++, assembly, and java. I agree with what some else posted here, light studying followed by a CLEP. Not to much interaction. Most of these classes were spent writing the code the night it was due, and forgetting bout the class tell the nexr assignment. Finally the final comes around and crank that one out, open book of course and its all good. The thing about an online class is that you only get out what you put in. that can be good or bad. For me it was ok because these programming ideas I already had a pretty good handle on and didnt have to waste my time in class learning stuff I already knew, or could grasp very quickly. Giving me more time to study my physics and stuff.
anyone have any experience with ACCIS? I'm been thinking about trying to get a CS degree from here.. They seem ok.. Anyone?
First, note that not every distance degree screams "DISTANCE." I went to the University of Waterloo on-campus for one of my Bacholer's degrees, and am completing my second Bacholer's via UW's Distance Ed program. Degrees completed by UW's distance ed. program simply say "University of Waterloo".
Personally, I feel I learn more on-campus than through distance. On-campus learning allows a lot more room for discussion (with the prof and with other students) which I find very valuable. Plus, because on-campus classes require me to be in class at set times, I find it a lot easier to keep attending and keep up with the material.
Distance Ed is a lot more flexible, but this can be dangerous if you procrastinate. It's much harder to stay on top of all the material when it's completely up to you to do so. However, if you get through that, you can turn it into an advantage during interviews -- it's a great example of self-motivation, independant work, perserverance and organization.
I can spell. I just can't type.
The University of London was founded by Royal Charter, and is therefore (AFAIK) completely accredited. It's External Programme is open to anyone, anywhere in the world. Part of the charter of the school is that degrees are treated exactly the same, no matter where or how the degree was earned. That is, a degree earned by distance learning is treated the same as a degree earned brick-and-mortar. It's the largest university in the UK, so it can't be all bad...:)
Just my two cents. And, for the record, I'm an American and former expatriate in Europe.
...but it's being eaten...by some...Linux or something...