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A Telescope The Size Of The Earth
Neil Blender writes "From this article: "Astronomers have fashioned an Earth-sized virtual radio telescope that can distinguish celestial features 3,000 times smaller than the those observed by the Hubble Space Telescope. The device, which uses atomic clocks and a custom supercomputer to link together radio dishes on three continents, is the most powerful radio observatory ever, according to scientists." Some parts of the custom supercomputer use linux and IDE RAID."
I wonder how much longer before we will be able to pick out individual geographic features on remote planets? 3000 times better resolution than hubble might actually give us real views of remote plantets.
;)
I'd love to take a geography class in an astronomy major, discussing the geography of Betelgese-124
Some parts of the custom supercomputer use linux : Yay!
Other parts use Windows : Burn It!!!
Remember, this is a RADIO telescope. Not optical.
While I don't doubt the value a radio telescope might have for planetary research, I'm willing to bet you're thinking about something akin to being able to see the individual cells on Pathfinder's solar-array on the surface of Mars from a telescope mounted here on Earth.
Anyone know the _optical_ resolution for maximum "zoom" on Hubble...?
and then we can have a telescope cluster even BIGGER than the Earth. I believe I've heard of proposals to do just this. Actually, I think it was to have multiple telescopes orbiting Earth's L4 or L5 points, much bigger than the Earth.
Kind of reminiscent of the question, "How about a Beowulf cluster of these?" only applied to telescopes.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Hubble == optical telescope, these are radio telescopes. AFAIK this technique doesn't work on optical observations.
Check the article at SpaceFlight Now.
Whoaaaaa momma! Look at that telescope! That sucker's huuuuuuge!
Hey, what ever happened to Tiny Elvis? Does anybody know where I could find it? Might it even WORK in a Win32 environment?
Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
this IS a beowulf cluster in essance, shame you are such a dumbass
Hubble is a multi billion dollar project. multiple ones would never get sent up, also Hubble is so low in orbit that it heats up. To git it to any Lx stable point would take probably a disposable rocket, such as the ones made by Boeing
Sig (appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars)
I thought I remembered something about doing something similar optically. How do they combine the Kecks output?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
SETI already uses this approach -- multiple radio telescopes in multiple locations, coordinated analysis of simultaneous observations -- in their systems. They just don't do it in real-time.
.@.
that we still can't see planets becuase most planets don't have radio stations on them :)
(that was a joke if you didn't get it)
The Next Generation Space Telescope is planned to be placed in L2 orbit.
"player 4 hit player 1 with 0 stroms"
AFAIK this technique doesn't work on optical observations.
It is theoretically possible IIRC, but just much tougher than radio waves. The timing is very important to putting the signals back together properly in the computer. Radio waves are less dense than light-waves, and thus you have more tolerence of timing errors.
Thus, someday we may be able to do such with light, but for now it is beyond our technology (except at close range).
Table-ized A.I.
Imagine a cluster of these.........oh wait, they *are* a cluster.
Table-ized A.I.
Damn you, you stole my joke, farthead!
Can't we get radio signals that are bounced off the planet's terran from the planet's star, kind of like radar?
The beginning of the universe, galaxies 10^100 light years away...yada yada yada.
All I care about is can it see the pornography on the nearest planet inhabited by intelligent perverts like us?
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
"The resolution achieved by this telescope is the equivalent of sitting in New York and being able to see the dimples on a golf ball in Los Angeles," astronomer Sheperd Doeleman said this week. "
I'm surprised an astronomer would say that. Most of them know that the earth is round. Seeing the L.A. golf ball would be really tough. I don't believe they can see through dirt, and even Tiger Woods couldn't hit it high enough. I felt the bodies of a thousand astronomers flinching in their graves.
Damn you, you stole my joke, farthead!
Ah, Slashdot!
Where a bunch of whiny 15 year olds consistantly managed to act like six year olds, without ever realizing it.
*sigh*
I know that they have optical telescopes that do this now. Keck Observatory come to mind. Here is a link to a page that describes what they are doing and the resolution they are getting. The VLT (Very Large Telescope) is another example of combining the beams of multiple telescopes.
the technique is several decades old and the article is essentially contentless.
array of radio telescopes scattered around the whole earch can act like a single telescope if we combine the signal coherently. this can be done by connecting them together in real time (e.g. VLA in New Mexico) or offline (e.g. VLBA). Both VLA and VLBA are run by NRAO. if you want to do offline, you need to preserve amplitude, phase and timing information. atomic clocks are used for time stamping and supercomputers are used to combine signal. this simulates a large telescope whose lens is mostly opaque, save for few dots! the technique is really old (originated in late 60s, early 70s) and has been well mastered for more than 20 years. so there is absolutely nothing new in the article. depending upon the scientific relevance, many global telescopes participate in these experiments. in some cases, only US telescopes (VLBA which is scattered from hawaii to virgin islands) participate, which creates somewhat smaller effective telescope size. some experiments have beed done using space based radio telescopes which increases effective size even further (by the time, the space telescope became operational in late 90s, i left astronomy, so don't know the results).
the supercomputer which combines signal is made up of custom chips and uses custom OS. linux part is quite small and it comes into picture well after the data has been pre-processed (raw data sizes could be few terrabytes a day while processed data is only few gigabytes).
If you were to build a space-based radio telescope and nudge it over to one of the earth-sun trojan points, you'd have a 1 A.U. baseline. Is this technically feasable? How well does this sort of thing scale?
What is the shortest sig that cannot be expressed in fewer than 20 words?
wrong. it's called optical interferometry. the keck telescope does this. the terrestrial planet finder is a proposed array of space telescopes that will do this.
Last I heard, and mentioned by a co-reply by trixillion, there is a followon for the Hubble planned. The really good NASA missions have long exceeded their planned lifespan, so it's entirely possible that there will be operational overlap between the Hubble and the Hubble++. There would be an opportunity to team them, perhaps. I don't know what extra infrastructure is needed to do this.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Admittedly I didnt read the article, but I wouldnt be suprised if the this "Earth sized" telescope is used for that purpose.
And interferrometer takes two images at a wide distace apart and then one image is used to cancel the other. The remaining image is a result of the slight angle difference, allowing you to see very dim objects next to bright ones. The same could be used for radio waves.
In any case this would be tough, but not impossible job, for actually seeing a planet. I remember one scientist literally describing it as trying to see a firefly with a nuclear explosion as a backdrop.
I'm impressed! I just spent a couple hours setting up an Adaptec 1200A IDE RAID 0, only to find out that it runs as fast as the individual drives did, about 40MB/s.
isn't there more than 3 continents in this particular Earth or you're talking about another Earth that I don't know? You should name this article "Not-So-Earth-Sized Telescope"
While I don't doubt the value a radio telescope might have for planetary research, I'm willing to bet you're thinking about something akin to being able to see the individual cells on Pathfinder's solar-array on the surface of Mars from a telescope mounted here on Earth.
Anyone know the _optical_ resolution for maximum "zoom" on Hubble...?
A really good telescope will usually be limited by diffraction effects (the fact that the telescope is of finite size causes light being focused to blur out a bit as it passes through the telescope aperture).
A back of the envelope calculation suggests that the diffraction-limited resolution of the Hubble (at 2.5m) for 500 nm light is about 0.2 microradians (letting it resolve features ten million kilometres wide at Alpha Centauri, five light-years away [give or take], or letting you read a typewritten letter at 5 km).
A radio telescope typically operates on wavelengths on the order of a tenth of a metre (as a gross approximation; it's really an order of magnitude in either direction from there, if I understand correctly). The largest radio telescope dish on the planet is about 300m wide, giving a diffraction-limited resolution of about 0.3 milliradians, or about three times sharper than the unaided human eye is at optical wavelengths (the equivalent of reading a typewritten letter at about 10 feet).
An interferometric radio telescope with an aperture the size of the planet would have a resolution of about 10 nanoradians, letting it resolve features about 0.5 million kilometres wide at Alpha Centauri [slightly smaller than our sun] (the equivalent of reading a typewritten letter at a distance of 100 km, or the title on a paperback book from low Earth orbit).
If we had a radio telescope with an atomic clock on the moon (about 400,000 km away), we could resolve objects the size of Jupiter in the Alpha Centauri system. If we had a space-based radio telescopes in the Earth-Sun L4 or L5 points (each 150 million km from Earth), we could resolve individual cities on an Earth-like planet.
This is cheap enough to do that we're probably going to put radio telescopes there within the next couple of decades. Any planet with a magnetosphere within 50-200 light years would be detectable, and we'd have detailed maps of magnetic effects on the surfaces of every star within a thousand light-years.
Hard telling how old people are on the 'net. Jung had some ideas about intellectual development that are reinforced by this. It says tthere are 10 or so potential levels of intellectual development a person can pass through in a lifetime. Most people he tested didn't get above level 5 or 6, which is only marginally higher than that of children.
some traits common with such levels are self-centeredness and lack of empathy or concern whatsoever for others. goes a long ways to explain why certain adults (and children) children are so unpleasant. Literally don't give a fuck about anyone else in a real sense.
the light shoots underground to a point underneath Keck II, where they are joined. Keck also is planning a set of 4m outriggers to increase the light collection and hopefully be able to directly image extrasolar planets(!) which is really cool because then they can look at the spectra for organic chemicals (well, probably not Keck, but in principle).
-pyrrho
Radio observatories have detected fast-moving particle streams gushing from the cores of many such galaxies for millions of light-years.
For millions of light-years - yes that *is* a long time....
Just like 10 kg is indeed very fast.
Properly done interferometry can make it so this telescope array approaches the angular resolution of a telescope that was actually X thousand miles across, but it of course doesn't give it the same light gathering capability (sensitivity). So it won't be able to see anything new, only resolve much better what telescopes could already see. Important, but really only half the benefit of building larger telescopes.
that we still can't see planets becuase most planets don't have radio stations on them :)
:)).
:).
Jupiter does. Some amatures can even detect Jupiter's radio emmissions from home-built radio scopes
Any planet with a magnetosphere should produce substantial radio emissions from both trapped particles in their equivalent of the van Allen belts, and from diverted solar wind crashing down near the poles (the aurorae come from _somewhere_
In practice, this means anything Earth-sized or larger (i.e. something with a molten nickel-iron core, or [for gas giants] with a metallic hydrogen ocean). In principle, ice moons with mantles of saltwater deep beneath the surface might have magnetospheres too, but in practice they won't have much, as you need a powerful heat source to drive the dynamo.
I have read that Jupiter broadcasts more radio noise than the Sun, but don't quote me on this.
I'd have to look that up. It sounds more like a mangling of another quote (that Jupiter emits more energy than it receives from the sun), but the Jupiter/Io flux tube does emit a lot of crud.
It's just that switchback currents in solar flares do too
Nobody knows? Space VLBI Has been around for a while now. LAunched in 1997 the Japanese satellite HALCA is used to do Space-Earth baseline radio interferometry astronomy. See http://us-space-vlbi.jpl.nasa.gov/
A raid 0 is just a big fake partision, you have to run a raid 5 or higher to get a higher load.
I have a raid 5 that runs 500MB/s