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Is SEVIS Likely to Cause Problems For Foreign Students?
Unne asks: "I just received notice from the foreign student department of my school (City College of New York) advising me to not leave the country anytime soon, or, if traveling is absolutely necessary, to return before the end of the year. It appears that a new system is being deployed called SEVIS, the Student Exchange and Visitor Information System, which requires 43 separate pieces about me if I am to be verified thru this system. I did a Slashdot-search for SEVIS but came up with nothing. I'd love to hear some opinions from people who are familiar with the program or perhaps took part in its development. What are those 43 items of information. What type of computer systems do they use? Is the information exchange between INS and the schools really handled via the web, and how does that affect privacy and personal integrity?"
"Here is what the notice says:
TRAVEL ADVISORY FOR INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS - WINTER 2002
The Immigration Service is implementing a new record-keeping system for international students in the United States called SEVIS (Student and Exchange Visitor Information System). The implementation of the SEVIS program is likely to cause extreme difficulties for students who wish to travel and re-enter the United States for the foreseeable future. This is how the SEVIS system is supposed to work and some of the complications that we anticipate may arise:
- By November 15th, 2002 all schools in the US authorized to admit international students must apply for re-certification in order to continue to be eligible to admit international students.
- It is uncertain how long it will take INS to re-certify schools applying for re-certification.
- When a school becomes re-certified, all I-20's must be issued under the new SEVIS system. That means the school must transmit, electronically, forty-three (43) items of information about the student to the INS' SEVIS website.
- When that information is received by INS, it will be reviewed and Immigration will electronically send an approval notice to the school to allow the school to allow the school to download a SEVIS I-20 for the student. It is uncertain how long the approval process will take - it could be hours, days or weeks.
- The school will download the new SEVIS I-20 and give it to the student.
POSSIBLE COMPLICATIONS
- In many cases, the International Student Office may have incomplete data on the students requesting I-20's. That means we must obtain the missing data before proceeding with the process.
- Within the near future, thousands of schools in the US will be submitting information on tens of thousands of students requesting I-20's to the SEVIS website. This system has been tested in only a very limited fashion. No-one can predict how well it will work in reality.
- The new system comes into effect on January 30th, 2003. However, if a school is re-certified before that date it is not clear whether existing I-20 forms will be honored or whether the student must use a SEVIS I-20 to enter the country even if entering the US before January 30th, 2003.
- After re-certification, students transferring to a SEVIS-approved school will be unable to receive an I-20 from their new school until their previous school certifies that the student is maintaining lawful student status and is eligible for school transfer.
- The best advice we can offer at the moment is: If it is not absolutely vital that you travel, it will be safer and much less complicated if you avoid leaving the country at this time. If you must travel, it will be better if you can return before the end of this year."
> HotNeedleOfInquiry wrote:
> I have another suggestion...
> Go home and stay there.
So... are you a native american?
Christopher McCrory "The guy that keeps the servers running" chrismcc@gmail.com http://www.pricegrabber.com
Google is full of information. It's brand new, so I doubt many people have experience with it.
best web host ever
Yes. I was born in this country. That makes me a Native American.
If you were not, then kindly leave and do not come back. Problem solved.
Sure is. I bet America can do just fine with that attitude, since you don't really need other people or other places and you surely don't need any natural resources outside of your borders. Oh, wait...
I did a Slashdot-search for SEVIS but came up with nothing. I'd love to hear some opinions from people who are familiar with the program or perhaps took part in its development.
A "Slashdot-search"? What is it with all these people thinking Slashdot is some sort of authoritative source of news about anything other than the occasional kernel patch?
If you have a question about contracts, ask a contract lawyer. If you have a question about immigration, contact an immigration lawyer, or the INS themselves. Slashdot is the "peanut gallery" - sometimes well meaning, sometimes sarcastic, generally uninformed about much of anything but happy to comment on it anyway.
Actually, the birth rate of american citizens is in the negative numbers... however, the number of people coming into the country is high. If it wasn't for foreigners, America's population would severly dwindle in numbers.
i live in america and i don't think that would be much of a bad thing to see the population dwindle
43? Wouldn't 42 be more appropriate?
Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Sure is. I bet America can do just fine with that attitude, since you don't really need other people or other places and you surely don't need any natural resources outside of your borders. Oh, wait...
Out of curiosity, where are you from? Countries where a majority of the population is supportive of immigration are in the vast minority. I think people just like to oppose things.
Ummm, no, you're wrong. Here's the first thing that I found doing a basic search...landed on the CIA's numbers. That says 14.1. That means that for every 1000 people, 14.1 new people are born every year. The death rate, however, is here, at 8.7. Since they're both with respect to 1000 people, we can directly compare them. FYI, 14.2 is greater than 8.7 by 5.5. So for every 1000 people, our population goes UP by 5.5 per year. Granted, I'll attribute a lot of that to the immigrants and minorities that have way too many children for their own good, but the majority is still good American citizens.
Get your facts straight, GiMP.
--trb
But I can understand why it seems like that to Americans.
http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/popclock
So... are you a native american?
God I love this question. No, I'm not a 'Native American' in the sense of the first KNOWN people to have lived on this continent...however, when our ancestors came through and took the land, it became our posession through force. Let's not kid ourselves, taking land for expansion by force has happened throughout history and America is no different. Cohabitating with foreigners has never been the Anglo-Saxon idea of a good time. Now is no different.
While I have no problem living with or working with different people, there is a line that I think we have to draw and, frankly, I think we've stepped beyond where I would draw that line. I don't want anyone to get hurt or be killed during the deporation process (presuming they go quietly), but anything that removes foreigners (read: people not born here or who don't speak the language, which is English) from the US is okay with me.
I apologize to all the foreigners who are here that are being hassled to provide legitimate information, but if it's such a big deal then, hey, door's to your right.
Flamebait, here I come.
--trb
I'm a programmer working for a (relatively) small university. We are busting our asses trying to get our systems compliant with SEVIS by the deadline of Jan. 30, 2003 or we lose the ability to have international students at our school.
The 43 pieces of information range from the usual stuff (last name, first name, middle, birth date, etc) to rather personal stuff like: personal funds (how much money you have in the bank), living costs, dependent costs, how much money you make at your job, driver's license number, etc etc..
The question is: "Is SEVIS likely to Cause Problems For Foreign Students?" Here's your answer: YES: SEVIS will cause you problems! Basically, the word from the INS is that reinstatement is not an option. So, if you are an international student, and for any reason you go out of staus, you're screwed..
As far as the computer systems the INS uses to house this information: nobody knows. We submit the information to the INS via a HTTPS post and the data is in XML format.. (I do know that the web server we submit data to is running IIS...)
Recently, I attended a conference and there was a presentation on SEVIS. The presenter said "If I was an international student, I wouldn't want to go to school in the US. I'd go somewhere else..."!!!
I am very much against this project. I don't think it will solve anything. It's just another knee-jerk reaction from scared government officials wanting another X amount of years in Washington for being a part of <sarcasm> a system that will end all terrorism by tracking every piece of information about students.. Yeah, that will stop terrorism! </sarcasm>
We (read: all ~7000 universities that are REQUIRED to participate) were all hoping at the beginning that this would be some fad and it would just go away once the INS discovered that it is not practical.. But that hasn't happened yet, and we are less than 2 months away from the "do or die" compliance date... This is very much a reality folks.
That's a rather racist (or xenophobic) remark, don't you think?
Just look in your own backyard for over-breeding.
You obviously don't live in an area with a high Mormon population, do you? Well I do. Most Mormons are not minorities (at least here in Utah) or immigrants. Most typical Mormon families seem to have at least 4 kids. Hell, most of families with 4+ kids that I know personally seem to have educated parents, so you'd at least think they'd know better.
You should have seen the local paper during election time: "So-and-So, a life-long Republican, has been married for 43 years, has 5 children, 22 grandchildren, and 4 great-grandchildren. Blah-blah-blah..." Damned near every candidate had 5 kids, and they wore it like a badge of pride. It made me sick
Don't get me wrong -- I'm not one of those bitter, anti-child freaks from alt.support.childfree, but responsible people should know better than to crank out kids just for the sake of doing so. I don't care if you have the financial means to support five kids (many do), or the emotional means (most do not), take a good look at the problems of this planet and think before you decide to procreate yet again. It's just plain selfish to have that many offspring.
No, the Mormon folks aren't the only group which tend to crank out kids. I recall many jokes about Catholics having the same trait. But really, it crosses all ethnic, racial, demographic, and economic classes. In many poorer countries, it can be attributed to lack of education and access to birth control. In more modernized countries... I don't know why people would want that many kids.
And yes, I do have kids -- 2 of 'em. And we made sure that after we had a replacement for each parent, we took permanent steps to make sure 2 kids was all we'd ever have.
Method of processing duck feet
God, I love THIS argument. It's a pretty common and facile argument, and contains, I believe, no outright logical fallacy. I will provide a summary of your points: The history of our country is bloody. Our forefathers took the land by force. Therefore, putting aside morality (a murky and illogical concept, hard to pin down or agree on) there is nothing amiss with it still being a bloody place.
There are no trolls. There are no trees out here.
I have a lot of friends who are international students, & those questions are pretty indicative of how closely INS is watching/controlling them.
If you're an international student, you practically have to fill out a form and send it to INS just to take a shit, and God Save You if it takes longer than 5 minutes to finish your 'business'.
My school has had a 15% drop in the number of international students over the past year from acts like SEVIS.
Hate to say it, but what if one of them dies? You gonna adpot or do you have your eye on an import?
And sadly the conclusion to this is that being a bloody place there is nothing wrong with the terrorist attacks that others might do to us simply becuase they want what we've got. Namely, power, land, wealth, freedom, etc.
(putting aside morality)
but anything that removes foreigners (read: people not born here or who don't speak the language, which is English) from the US is okay with me.
Actually, the language of the US is not english. That is a common myth. The US has no official language. That is why people can go and demand things in other languages, because spanish or french or whatever is every bit as legitimate as english in the US. English is by far the most popular language, but it is not our official language by any means. So before we start deporting people who don't speak "our language" we should probably get a language.
"Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
Yes, sadly, that is a possible conclusion. I want to state, though, because my point may not be obvious: only a fool puts aside morality.
There are no trolls. There are no trees out here.
English is the de facto language of government and commerce -- no myth.
Try setting up a company speaking and writing only German.
Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
Interesting aside, apparently the curent crop of people we consider "Native Americans" are actually the third wave of people on the shores of this continente. You can guess where the previous two groups wound up.
Aside to an Aside, I work for a company of "Indians" and never, once, have they refered of them selves at "Native Americans". "Natives" once and a while, but almost alsway "Indian."
It's only the sickly pussy-whipped white males driving beat up Volvos and listening to Chomsky's books on 8-Track, who smoke too much of the good herb that use the term "Native American."
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.
Predictions regarding the person who made this post:
1. Under the age of 20, or older but still lives with parents.
2. Has not touched a human breast other than his own.
3. Doesn't read much, or while reading doesn't think much.
4. Enjoys taking hard line stands on many issues, although not sure why.
5. Has never actually performed an action in support of one of these hard line stands.
6. Considers himself a pretty amazing programmer.
7. Enjoys tasering own nads.
How'd I do? I'm guessing 5/7 at least.
> Cohabitating with foreigners has never been the
> Anglo-Saxon idea of a good time.
Well, I'm about as WASP as they come, and I'm really
fond of hot Asian action... so there.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
> It's only the sickly pussy-whipped white males ... use the term "Native American."
>
Au contraire! There are plenty of pussy-whipped
brown girls who use it too; I've heard them
chatting at the Starbucks by York U in Toronto.
Really, if you used "Indian" on slashdot, everyone
would assume you were talking about a person or
persons from the Indian subcontinent of Asia.
Native is even more ambiguous. The only reason
they use "Indian" on the res' is because the
context is clearly disambiguating. "Native
American" is much clearer in the world at large,
and hence a preferred use. If you were in Dodge
City, 1880, "Indian" might be clear, but not in
New York City, 2002.
Finally, I'd rather be pussy-whipped with too
much herb than herbless and nookie-free.
At least when you're pussy-whipped you can whip
back at it.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
> I think people just like to oppose things.
Then why don't they oppose immigration *laws*?
Frankly, national borders suck bigtime.
I resent the restriction on my freedom to travel.
I think most wars would be averted by freedom of
travel. I think most starvation would be averted
by freedom of travel. Nation-states just suck.
They kill most of the people who don't die of
natural causes.
Nation-states are obsolete, a source of friction
in the economy of human liberty and dignity,
as well as dollars/marks/francs/rand/rubles/yuan.
But like feudal lords, imperial popes, or Stalin,
Hitler, and Pol Pot, they aren't going to go
without a big fight. There are a lot of vested
interests who want nothing more than a fascist
iron fist around your neck. People like the
CFR, the WWF, and the GWB.
Ooooh, shiny! I just noticed that George W Bush
has the same initials as the Great White Brotherhood!
Next tangent, please....
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
Then why don't they oppose immigration *laws*?
That's an easy one. It's because it's simpler to be rude in a comment on slashdot.
I don't necissarily advocate an anti-immigration policy, I was just pointing out that most people, regardless of the country they are from, are anti-immigration.
If the issus ever comes up, we all just fall back to Tribal/Nation names. hard to confuse "Tlingit" with "Bangalore."
My rather nasty point was that the PC movment of renaming "Natives" and "Indians" to "Native Americans" wasen't spawned by any Indian I know - just a bunch of nurotic self-hating white guys with too much time on their hands. I'm sure they probably ment well, but it looked like was just another case of pretending to care just to fell better. Of all the issuses that daily effect the group of natives that I work for, silly naming issues fall on the last of the list.
Be carefull there, pussy and weed sometimes don't mix. You might get a little bit too happy and choose the wrong pussy. It might leave a bad taste in your mouth....
Cheers.
Moneyed corporations, non-working 'poor' and criminal prisoners are turning productive citizens into tax-slaves.