Providing 802.11 Access Across State Lines?

kmleon asks: "Where can I find decent information on how to provide wireless internet service using an unlicensed technology (such as the 802.11 variants) across a state border? There are a few hundred people in this rural area that are desperate to use our service since no one else can give them broadband, but I have no idea how to offer that without knowing if we'd be getting in trouble with who knows how many government agencies. Anyone had any experience with doing this? The problem is that all our backbone is on one side of the border, with just strong enough of a signal to give service about 2-5 miles on the other side of the border. Is it just as simple as registering the business in both states? Which agency (FCC, FTC, or other someone else) could I contact for help? None of their websites have provided me with any helpful information. Thanks for any useful input."

Comments

what you need

[sydlexic]

is a little walking around money to grease the skids with the local stuffed shirts. nothing says democracy, law and order better than a few greenbacks.

Like you said

[Anonymous Coward]

It's unlicensed. As long as you don't violate the power specs, you'll be fine on that front. The FCC is a federal agency, and I don't know of any states that have added extra regulation. Just setup your business in the state you'll be transmitting from/connecting to the rest of the internet, and be on your way.

What you need to do is tell Rick Austenson he is..

[Anonymous Coward]

A FUCKING FAGGOT!!!!!!!!

IANAL, but...

[Rick the Red]

If the issue here is "crossing state lines" then two points:
1) The FCC already took care of the radio issue (as AC pointed out above). Even transmissions send and recieved within a single state fall under the "interstate commerce" clause of the Constitution, and thus under the FCC's jurisdiction.
2) Business licenses and taxes are another issue. You may need a business license, and you many need to pay sales or other taxes, in your customer's state. Seek local advice. There may be government agencies who provide free help to small businesses with just these issues -- ask.

Re:IANAL, but...

[themo0c0w]

Just being nitpicky, but the interstate commerce clause only give the federal government jurisdiction over commerce between states, not within in them (that would be intrastate commerce). However, the trend in the past century has been to use the interstate commerce clause to expand the power of the federal government even in cases where it has nothing (or almost nothing) to do with interstate commerce.

I'm not arguing your original point that FCC has cleared the way for this ISP (802.11b's frequencies can be used by anyone), just that their intrastate jurisdiction comes from "bending" the commerce clause, not directly applying it.

See FCC regs

[mbstone]

The FCC regulates radio frequency transmissions, states and localities may not. See Part 15 of the FCC Regs which regulate low power (= 100 mW RF output) devices. Your local governmental busybodies may (or may not) regulate your business license / zoning / etc. as in any other business situation. Call your attorney for an appointment (duh).

While you're at it what about baking recipes too?

[maggard]

"Where can I find decent information on how to provide wireless internet service using an unlicensed technology (such as the 802.11 variants) across a state border?"

We call them "lawyers". They specialize in understanding and interpreting the law, explaining how it applies to your particular circumstance, advising you of what hoops you'll need to jump through and what your risks are.

Here you'll get geeks of varying degrees of boredem expressing their limitied legal/political understandings of how your rather vague question should be interpreted. The actual value of these expressions will be distinctly dubious and at some point you'll just have to go to a lawyer anyway.

Why anyone posts this useless sort of question to "Ask /." is beyond me, moreso why they're chosen. Exactly what utility will the answers here be beyond raising /. pageviews? Like I said, the blazingly obvious answer is "go to a lawyer", everyone here will be prefacing with "IANAL" or for the .0001% who are legally sophisticated "This does not constitute competent legal advice and you should etc."

Re:I didn't think they had the 'lectricty in WVa,

[NoMoreNicksLeft]

Wait. Are you saying that 802.11 doesn't provide why-orless 'lectricity? Dag gommit, Jim-Bob has toll me a lie for the lass time...

*chain saw roaring*

We're gonna tich ole Jim-Bob a real good less'n!

In Soviet Russia...

[I'm not a script, da]

802.11 access you!

its federal

[coaxial]

the EM spectrum is governed by federal laws. The states have no rights whatsoever over the use of the spectrum due to its inherent interstate nature.

Just think about it for a minute. Do states have big jammers along their borders that prevent you from receiving television and radio broadcasts from another state?

Re:its federal

[bill_mcgonigle]

What he's thinking of is running a telco network across state lines. You get tarriffed to death.

In a previous job we were looking at about $10K/mo in tarrifs to run just a dozen T1's across a state line. Back then it took $30K to buy microwave transceivers, but, going RF took it out of the states' hands, so the only monthly costs were the tower fees.

What I wonder is how all the telcos have shut down their microwave systems and gone fiber - they must have a way around the tarrifs or they would just have kept building microwave towers.

OT In Australia, pay Au$ 10,000 -annual- lic.fees!

[Anonymous Coward]

Here, the ACA (FCC's counterpart) apparently
wants to discourage competition & new ISP's
coming into the market...

Some local -amateur- WiFi groups -don't-
(read: can't -afford- to) -officially-
provide any Internet access to there
members... only fast LAN facilities... ...all because of ACA's exorbitant &
anti-competitive license fee, which
applies whenever the WiFi network
transcends the boundary of a user's
property...

So, big car-makers don't pay it...

But, little -amateur- experimenter
groups would have to (or risk -big-
fines and/or confiscation of gear).

How to make a SMALL FORTUNE in Australia:
Bring a BIG ONE with you... :-)

(Funny, yes... also sad...)

Try asking the same question here....

[oobeleck]

This is a great community resource.
If anyone has done this kind of stuff before these guys/gals have.

Re:Try asking the same question here....

[R2.0]

From the FAQ:

So will I be able to get free Internet access if I connect to SWN? ...the goal of SWN is not that of being an "ISP" to provide free InterNet access. The goal of SWN is to create a self-sufficient network that does not depend on the InterNet for content or connectivity. As for free InterNet access, it would be very easy for individuals to share their unused bandwidth with other users.

Why isn't free Internet access available 24/7 at the MeetingPlace or by certain other prominent members of SWN?

If you are employed by (or have as clients) an internet-related firm or ISP, then it can set up a conflict of interest scenario due to clauses in employment or sales contracts. This doesn't prevent those members without conflict of interest problems from being helpful and connecting to SWN to provide bandwidth to the internet. If people don't provide this type of bandwidth, then the utility of our SWN network will be quite limited to being a demonstration system. "

So, they want to be independent of the Internet and not be a free ISP, but if (wink, wink) people share their internet access, then it will keep this from being wholly useless exercise.

It must be all the rain...

Re:While you're at it what about baking recipes to

[Thu Anon Coward]

the unwritten question in his request is "has anybody else run across this scenario"? but No, you just basically told him to f*ck off with your "....why anyone bothers to post this to Ask /. .....". having dealt with government entities myself, I know how they can stick it to you. they may not know their rural residents are using this service and may not care. they may also throw a hissy fit cause the local j.p. ain't getting his cut of the cable franchise or whatever. the point being, your only valid point was "talk to a lawyer". but yet, even that was stupid advice because YOU did not tell him to locate a lawyer familiar with this aspect of the government laws. you sure as hell don't hire a divorce attorney for this kind of work. your score was a 5? shit, you should be modded down to FlameBait 1.

Re:While you're at it what about half-baked lawyer

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, about any local lawyer will do. A reasonably competent lawyer, like a reasonably competent programmer/doctor/sysadmin knows his or her own limitations and, upon encountering a problem which exceeds those limitations, either a) knows where to look up the answer, and/or b) knows who to ask for the answer (or to whom the client/patient/customer should be referred). In this case most small-town lawyers would know the answer, except maybe for the FCC-regs angle. Surely you don't want to send the poster to some high-priced big-FCC-law firm. Every wannabe entrepreneur should get to know at least one general-practitioner lawyer. The poster's point, that Ask Slashdot takes too many questions to which the answer is "See an attorney," is well taken if perhaps not aptly phrased.

plead ignorance.

[krismon]

tell the users that they NEED to be on your side of the border to use your service.. but slip them a note that says the service MAY work on the other side of the border. I think that passes the buck to the consumer, technically, they're the ones breaking the rules if there are any.

Just like DirectTV users in Canada that have US billing addresses. The service isn't(wasn't?) available there but it works.