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LEDs vs. Lightbulbs

zymano writes "www.technologyreview.com has this nice article on LEDs vs lightbulbs" Follows the exploits of one Shuji Nakamura, the same man who brought you the practical violet laser.

36 comments

  1. Everyone knows... by C0LDFusion · · Score: 1

    ...LEDs are more fun to play with. I remember messing with them when I was younger and had one of those "300-in-1" kits from Radio Shack. I read the little book for ideas and then tossed it aside and had my own version of mayhem. At that point, my dad's own experiment was finished, and the results were startling...his son was a nerd.

    --
    Only in slashdot are posts of solidarity modded at -1 Redundant, while posts of antagonism are modded as -1 Flamebait.
    1. Re:Everyone knows... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ..but have you made a LED chaser with the new red-green-blue LEDs and a MCU? That's a cool project I'm working on.

  2. I have a solid state LED flashlight by jmccay · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I have a DORCY solid state LED Flashlight--actually, I have two. I liked it so much I bought it twice (one for home and one for my car). It works great. It doesn't difuse as badly as normal flashlights so it can shine further. Walmart seems to have stopped carrying it, but I got my second one at Sears for about $13.00 (no sales tax).

    --
    At the next eco-hypocrisy-meeting, count the private jets used to get to the meeting. Should be interesting to see that
    1. Re:I have a solid state LED flashlight by shrikel · · Score: 1
      (no sales tax)

      How'd you pull that one off?

      Oh, never mind. I know. You bought $13 bucks worth of stuff and "forgot" you'd put the flashlight in your bag, right?

      :p

      --
      Any sufficiently simple magic can be passed off as mere advanced technology.
    2. Re:I have a solid state LED flashlight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, no. I live in a state with NO sales taxe AND no Income Tax! It's not my fault other states are controlled by liberal spending jerks that need to finance their multibillion dolar spending habit. If you reign in spending, then you don't need more taxes.

    3. Re:I have a solid state LED flashlight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PLEASE! which state? i'n packin my bags!!!!

    4. Re:I have a solid state LED flashlight by Randolpho · · Score: 1

      It's the state of fantasy.

      --
      "Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
      -Marilyn Manson
    5. Re:I have a solid state LED flashlight by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to live in Oregon, which has no sales tax, and the highways were in god-awful shape, the public schools were pathetic, and the logging industry owned the local politic.

      But they all spelled 'dollar' correctly.

  3. Crank flashlights and LEDs by wowbagger · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've a friend who works for Coleman (he's one of their webmonkeys, let's give him a heart attack by putting some "referrer=http://slashdot.org"'s in his logs).

    He gets plenty of fun stuff from work. One of the things they have is a little crank powered flashlight that uses a Brinkman style little incand.

    It will run for a fair length of time on the batteries, but I have to wonder how much longer it would run with an LED.

    Perhaps next generation....

    1. Re:Crank flashlights and LEDs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      Be sure to tell your friend that his website's back-button-disabling flash intro sucks. :(

  4. efficacy versus efficiency by Michael.Forman · · Score: 4, Informative


    This article, like most articles that tout LEDs as a replacement for light bulbs, confuses efficacy and efficiency.

    Luminous efficacy is defined as the power of radiated visible light (visible luminous flux) divided by the dissipated electrical power. Given in lumens per watt, efficacy provides a useful means of comparing which source provides the most useful illumination for a given power.

    Efficiency on the other hand is defined as the power of radiated visible light (visible luminous flux) divided by the power of all radiated light (total luminous flux). Ideally given as a unit-less ratio, efficiency provides the ratio of useful light to wasted light and does not necessarily correlate with efficacy. It is possible to have simultaneously high efficiency and low efficacy.

    The question of why LEDs haven't already replaced all lights can be answered quickly by comparing the efficacy of different sources of light. All numbers below are approximate.

    Filament light: 10 lm/W
    White LED: 20 lm/W
    Halogen light: 25 lm/W
    Red LED: 40 lm/W
    Florescent light: 100 lm/W
    Sodium light: 150 lm/W
    It can be seen why red LEDs have replaced halogen bulbs with red filters in stop lights -- red LEDs have a much higher efficacy. Note that the efficacy of LEDs are still well below that of florescent lights. If you feel frustration in seeing how far LED technology still has to go to compete with the boring lighting technologies of yesteryear, assuage your sorrows in the knowledge that you can save billions in energy costs right now, simply by switching to florescent lighting.

    Michael.

    --
    Linux : Mac :: VW : Mercedes
    1. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The problem with that statement is that you're both right. The term "energy efficiency" refers to the amount of output relative to the input, which is exactly what they're talking about. However, within the field, the term is used differently.

      However, it should be noted that by the strict dictionary definition of efficiency, the article is correct, and the scientific community is misusing the term. Oh, and according to my thesaurus, efficacy and efficiency are synonyms.

    2. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by jdray · · Score: 1
      ...switching to florescent lighting...

      I hate to pick nits, but it's "fluorescent." If you're talking about differences between efficiency and efficacy (a debatable difference), it'd be great to get your spelling right... ;^)

      --
      The Spoon
      Updated 6/28/2011
    3. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      hey, when you buy a clue buy a new dictionary with it.

      dont get me wrong. its not that your contribution to this thread wasnt filled with staggering insight (youre wrong). its just that im anoyed that i have to post definitions.

      efficacy
      Pronunciation: 'e-fi-k&-sE
      Function: noun
      Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
      Date: 13th century
      : the power to produce an effect

      efficiency
      Pronunciation: i-'fi-sh&n-sE
      Function: noun
      Inflected Form(s): plural -cies
      Date: 1633
      1 : the quality or degree of being efficient
      2 a : efficient operation b (1) : effective operation as measured by a comparison of production with cost (as in energy, time, and money) (2) : the ratio of the useful energy delivered by a dynamic system to the energy supplied to it

    4. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by kriston · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Certain overnight radio shows tout the LED flashlights as being more efficient than incandescent or incandescent halogen. This is patently false. The LED lamps are more durable, but most do not use any more or any less energy than the equivalent incandescent or incandescent halogen at the same wattage (and efficacy).

      The trend of changing traffic signals to use LED lamps is a question of reducing maintenance costs since the signals last so much longer than the old incandescents. It has nothing at all to do with saving electricity. It has everything to do with installing lamps so that the fixture does not need as much relamping as before. Of course, safety by reducing burnt lamps is also a big reason :)

      On a lighter note, the very newest LED traffic lamps use diffusers so they look more like traditional lamps and not like 100 lamps. Here in Washington DC the green, amber, and red lamps are all being replaced and they are brighter and more attractive than the old lamps were. THey are much better than the green traffic lamps that Fairfax County is experimenting with.

      Kris

      --

      Kriston

    5. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by Michael.Forman · · Score: 1


      Doh! Damn ispell got me again.

      Michael.

      --
      Linux : Mac :: VW : Mercedes
    6. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by Pinkoir · · Score: 1

      Efficiency on the other hand is defined as the power of radiated visible light (visible luminous flux) divided by the power of all radiated light (total luminous flux). Not to nitpick but the term "visible luminous flux" is redundant. Luminous flux is radiative flux which has been normalized by the photopic curve. The photopic curve is the curve of relative intensity vs wavelength which models the spectral reponsivity of our biological photometers (sometimes known as "eyes"). IIRC there are 683 lumens per watt of light at 550 nm. -Pinkoir

    7. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by mcoletti · · Score: 1

      Actually, I like the new green LED traffic lights; though I wonder why they're only replacing the green and not the red and yellow, too.

      --

      MAC | A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.

    8. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by Michael.Forman · · Score: 1

      You are not nitpicking! I did not know that, although I do recall seeing those curves. Thank you for taking the time to post.

      Michael.

      --
      Linux : Mac :: VW : Mercedes
    9. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by Jason1729 · · Score: 2, Informative

      but most do not use any more or any less energy than the equivalent incandescent or incandescent halogen at the same wattage.

      That's like saying "what weights more, a pound of feathers or a pound of nails?". Wattage is a measuere of the energy you are using per unit time.

      LEDs give off more light for the same power than incandescant bulbs; super-bright LED takes about 15mA at 1.7 volts. That's 25 miliwatts of power. For the same power a 100 watt lightbulb takes, you can power 4,000 super-bright LEDs.

      The difference is even more extreme with flashlight bulbs. To get more brightness, the bulbs are run at about 25% higher than the rated voltage. This does make it a lot brighter, but at a bigger penalty for power draw, and cuts the life expectancy down from 1000 to 10 hours.

      Jason
      ProfQuotes

    10. Re:efficacy versus efficiency by The+Zody · · Score: 1

      "assuage your sorrows in the knowledge that you can save billions in energy costs right now, simply by switching to florescent lighting." yes i suppouse one could do that. but do you really want to live in hell?

  5. On the road by __aafkqj3628 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Whoever does the traffic lights over here (I think it's the LTSA, but whoever it is doesn't really matter) is slowly changing traffic lights (busted ones and new ones) over to using LEDs instead of the traditional light-bulb.
    The change is quite noticeable (when you see 500 LEDs peering back instead of a large bulb), but the LEDs seem to provide greater brightness in addition to a longer-life and better energy efficency (which is always good during our annual energy-crisis).

    1. Re:On the road by phelddagrif · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I find that the LED traffic lights are far easier to see in both the daylight and the night. They don't seem to be effected by sunglare nearly as harshly as the coloured glass sodium bulbs do. Which is nice because it can be a bitch to try and figure out what colour the light is sometimes. (It's not super hard,just much harder than it should be). Whereas the LED's are always readable. At least that's my experience with them.

    2. Re:On the road by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Insightful

      500 LEDs peering back instead of a large bulb

      And the best benefit - when an LED fails you have 499 LED's instead of traffic accidents. :)

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:On the road by Blaine+Hilton · · Score: 1

      I do believe this is one of the main reasons for the switch over. The question though is what happens a few years down the road when 10, 20, or 50 are burned out? Will they wait until theres only one left to replace the thing? Usually it seems that elected officals and technology are not the best combination...

  6. A long way to go... by Eivind · · Score: 2, Informative
    We hear that leds will replace ligthbulbs every 2 years or so, and yet, they are still not even in the ballpark.

    A white led today has about twice the efficiency of a normal ligthbulb. That sounds great -- until you consider:

    • The brigthest white led existing (in a lab environment, not on the shelves) is a 5 watt led, equivalent to a 10W ligthbulb, yay !
    • Twice the efficiency ain't that good, this still means only about 10% of the energy-input gets turned to ligth, even halogen can do better than that and fluorescent has it beat into the ground with like 20-30%.
    • The prices are out of this world, no, each LED ain't that expensive, but it also has a tiny ligth-output, try calculating the price for reasonably ligthing a single room.
    • The color-spectra suck. Seriously, led is inherently monochromatic. Yes they can remedy this with various phosphors and the like, but those reduce efficiency (which was supposed to be the advantage of leds, remember?) and even with those it's hard getting a natural full ligth-spectrum.
    In the meantime pluorescents are developing at a breakneck pace. Today you can buy pluorescents compact-bulbs that fit in a normal bulb-socket, are 5 times as efficient as a standard bulb, cost around 2$ a piece, are available in wattages up to 25 W (equivalent to 125W standardbulb), and last for around 10000 hours.

    This is a no-brainer people. Replace a single 100W ligthbulb with a 20W energy-saver and the math looks like this over the 10000hour lifetime:

    • Cost of bulb: 2$ instead of 5*0.20$, extra cost 1$
    • Energy comsumed: 10000*0.02=200Kwh instead of 1000Kwh for the normal bulbs.

    You pay 1$ extra for the bulb, and you save 800Kwh over the lifetime of the bulb. With an energy-price of 13 cent (most pay more!) you will save over 100 dollars over the lifetime of that single bulb.

    1. Re:A long way to go... by theedge318 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While you are correct that fluorescent bulbs are much more efficient, they serve a considerably different purpose. Fluorescent bulbs provide great omni-directional lighting. Unfortunately they produce some unwanted spectrums, namely don't store wine under anything but an incandescent bulb. Anyways LED provide a very tight cone of light. This means that they are perfectly suited for flashlights, traffic lights, and headlights, where we are looking for a cone of light that only represents 1/100th of the sphere. A fluorescent bulb may be 3 time more efficient, but it does so in directions that need to be reflected into the correct direction, a process that is only 10-20% efficient.

      What does this mean ... you won't be replacing your household lamps with LEDs anytime soon (if ever) ... but flashlights, traffic lights, headlights, and other similar lights will all begin to make use of LED technology.

      --
      Sig Nazi- "No Sig for you, come back 1 year."
    2. Re:A long way to go... by kriston · · Score: 1

      Maybe if you keep the lights on in your wine cellar!

      Kris

      --

      Kriston

    3. Re:A long way to go... by Pinkoir · · Score: 1

      The brigthest white led existing (in a lab environment, not on the shelves) is a 5 watt led, equivalent to a 10W ligthbulb, yay

      Lumileds' 5W Luxeon emitter is commercially available (that is to say it is on the shelves) but sadly the lifetime is indeed very short due to the excessive amount of power they are pumping through that poor little die. I am informed that this problem is being solved.

      As for applications...you can expect to start seeing LED front-lighting on high-end vehicles in the 05-06 model years. They will only be fog-lamps but it's a start. It is important to note that light-conversion efficiencies are not the only determining factor in the application of LEDs. The usage of cool, compact LED sources will allow styling options not currently available in the automotive market. Remember...styling is everything!

      -Pinkoir

    4. Re:A long way to go... by theedge318 · · Score: 1

      I was refering to the people that have the decorative wine cellars that they leave in the middle of their family room. You know the fancy ones people use to show off to their friends. Of course these are the same people who wonder in bewilderment when their $100 bottle of wine tastes like carp [sic], never having realized that it has been exposed to 3 hours of direct sunlight per day for the last 10 years.

      First off wine is to drink not to show, secondly anyone who spends $100 on a bottle of wine doesn't know what they are doing (unless someone else is picking up the tab). That said don't even bother with Opus One.

      --
      Sig Nazi- "No Sig for you, come back 1 year."
    5. Re:A long way to go... by JayBat · · Score: 1
      Today you can buy pluorescents compact-bulbs that fit in a normal bulb-socket, are 5 times as efficient as a standard bulb, cost around 2$ a piece, are available in wattages up to 25 W (equivalent to 125W standardbulb), and last for around 10000 hours.

      My problem with consumer compact fluorescent lamps is the warmup time. I'm a pretty green sorta guy, but that doesn't stop it from sucking when I can't really see in my garage for 2-3 minutes while the CF lamps work their way up to full output. (Or are there magic CF lamps that everybody except me knows about that hit full output in 5 seconds, instead?)

      If I have to put up with peaky spectrum, at least give me quick on time.

    6. Re:A long way to go... by Eivind · · Score: 1
      Should not take anywhere close to that long. The ones I have generally come on in less than a second from I hit the switch, and I am not able to perceive any increase in ligth-output after the first 3 seconds or so.

      You can also buy low-energy lamps that are coated in better multi-spectrum phosphors, good enough that they give better ligth than incadescent. Only drawback is that those tend to cost a fair bit more. Around $5 or so.

    7. Re:A long way to go... by JayBat · · Score: 1
      Should not take anywhere close to that long. The ones I have generally come on in less than a second from I hit the switch, and I am not able to perceive any increase in ligth-output after the first 3 seconds or so.

      Hey, that's great! I guess I'm just too stupid to find a light like this; everything I've tried from GE, Philips and Sylvania has had extremely noticeable warm up.

      But you've apparently id'ed a 25-30W CFL with no perceptable warm up period, for $5! But you forgot the manufacturer, part number, and retail outlet. Let us know!

    8. Re:A long way to go... by mandolin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One implication of the greater efficiency of the compact fluorescent light would be the lower heat output for a given brightness. So you need to run the air conditioner less often -> even less power used. Double the pleasure, etc.

  7. Flourescents and LEDs by guardian-ct · · Score: 1

    How about this: since LED's are pretty much monochromatic, and they seem to be more efficient if you only need one wavelength, use them to drive flourescent tubes. Use a UV LED (heh... these may not exist cheaply), and the tube should be able to convert from UV to visible for you.

    Problems: How do you fit enough LEDs into the tube to make a bright light? How do you arrange them, so that no photons are lost before they hit the phosphors on the side of the tube? Putting them in a plane on the ends of the tube (so the LEDs are pointing to the other end) would probably lose quite a bit to hitting the other end of the tube first. One LED every X inches would look strange.

    Conversion losses may also be too high, though fl. tubes are pretty efficient with the standard gas discharge tech.