Slashdot Mirror


Cable TV Franchise Says No To DSL Ads

Sloppy writes "The Albuquerque Tribune reports that Comcast, who has cable TV franchise agreements with many city governments, refuses to run ads for competing internet service providers. I guess that's something that citizens need to remind their local governments to correct the next time the monopoly terms are negotiated .. fourteen years from now."

46 comments

  1. So what by Loosewire · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I may get flamed for this but when was the last time you saw ads on linux.com advertising windows xp......

    --
    Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
    1. Re:So what by Blkdeath · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I may get flamed for this but when was the last time you saw ads on linux.com advertising windows xp......

      Try that analogy when linux.com is the homepage for 90% of the Internet users in a particular geographic area.

      --
      BD Phone Home!

      Shameless plug. Like you weren't expecting it.

    2. Re:So what by Loosewire · · Score: 1

      goood point - thanks

      --
      Slashdot - The one stop shop for procrastination
    3. Re:So what by SeaEye420 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, maybe not WindowsXP specifically, but I went to verify that you were right after reading your post. Lo and behold an ad for "A free Java on Windows tutorial" courtesy of Oracle and Dell. :-P

      Also, I find it quite odd that they won't accept ads from DSL providers, but they accept money from DirecTV and Echostar?!?

      --
      Wort Wort Wort!
    4. Re:So what by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      well, i do see MS adds on /. all the time. not quite linux.com, but not so far from it

    5. Re:So what by Alsee · · Score: 1

      I may get flamed for this but when was the last time you saw ads on linux.com advertising windows xp

      I think you mean ad on Microsoft.com advertizing Linux, the story is about a monopoly refusing to run ads for any competitors.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    6. Re:So what by FroMan · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just for kicks, you can check out Linux Journal for Microsoft ads. I don't know if their website has them, but the hard copy does.

      --
      Norris/Palin 2012
      Fact: We deserve leaders who can kick your ass and field dress your carcass.
    7. Re:So what by Coward+the+Anonymous · · Score: 1

      Yes, but do you think RedHat or Mandrake would even bother trying to adverstise on Microsoft.com? Especially since they don't sell advertising space. Try MSN.com.

      --
      -- Jason
    8. Re:So what by Dr_Cornholio · · Score: 1

      How often do you see ads for letterman on NBC? (N.B. I live in Australia. I think letterman is on CBS, could be wrong though)

      --
      In Soviet Russia, the monkey spanks you!
    9. Re:So what by old7 · · Score: 1

      Also, I find it quite odd that they won't accept ads from DSL providers, but they accept money from DirecTV and Echostar?!?

      Any ads for DirecTV or Echostar that you see on your TV were not placed at the local level. They are placed at the national level. They can't block out the national ads. Just like the cable company can't block out ads that are placed on the local ABC, CBS, NBC or FOX affiliates. The ads that cable companies place are on ESPN, CNN, FOXNews, and other cable networks through negotiations with the cable networks. Cable companies make a considerable amount of revenue for these local TV spots and so do the cable networks.

      Old7
  2. They're within their rights... by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "...who has cable TV franchise agreements with many city governments, refuses to run ads for competing internet service providers.... guess that's something that citizens need to remind their local governments to correct the next time the monopoly terms are negotiated .."

    Umm, that's not a monopoly action. They have the right to refuse service to anyone. Sorry but I'm not dusting off my pitchfork over this one.

    --
    "Derp de derp."
    1. Re:They're within their rights... by gehrehmee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure it is. They're manipulating a monoply in one field (cable TV) in an attempt to corner an independant field (broadband internet). Pretty straightforward monopoly abuse.

      --
      "You know, Hobbes, some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help" -- Calvin
    2. Re:They're within their rights... by NanoGator · · Score: 2, Informative

      "Sure it is. They're manipulating a monoply in one field (cable TV) in an attempt to corner an independant field (broadband internet). Pretty straightforward monopoly abuse. "

      No, they're refusing to let their service be used to aid their competition. I mean seriously, would you give a ride to a guy who's on his way to date your girlfriend?

      The only way this could be considered 'straightforward monopoly abuse' is if Comcast was the only way you could advertise in that area. It's not. You can advertise anywhere, cableTV is just one stop.

      --
      "Derp de derp."
    3. Re:They're within their rights... by gmhowell · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The cable company has been given a monopoly on the use of the cable television infrastructure. In exchange for that monopoly, they have to behave to a higher standard.

      No, they're refusing to let their service be used to aid their competition

      Their competition in another market. This is precisely what MicroSoft was found guilty of (using a monopoly in one market to unduly influence another market). Nobody argued that this should be allowed. Hell, even MicroSoft didn't argue this (they argued that they didn't have the underlying monopoly).

      Comcast is not the only way you can advertise; it is likely the only way you can advertise on television. You can't exchange five newspaper ads and three radio spots for a 30 second TV ad; each of these hits different markets.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    4. Re:They're within their rights... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I mean seriously, would you give a ride to a guy who's on his way to date your girlfriend?

      Would you stop someone from seeing their girlfriend just because yours won't let you see both of them?

    5. Re:They're within their rights... by aronc · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I mean seriously, would you give a ride to a guy who's on his way to date your girlfriend?


      If you're driving a city bus at the time, you damn well better. That's closer to the situation here. The cable companies are in control of a public trust thus have to abide by some stricter rules than some random schmoo yelling from him dorm room.

      --

      jello.
      aka aron.
    6. Re:They're within their rights... by Temsi · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but you're quite wrong.
      Since they are awarded franchise status by city governments, they are compelled to accept advertisements from anyone offering services or products, as long as they are legal.

      I am not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure this violates antitrust laws, since this is a clear example of a corporation abusing its dominance in one market in order to stifle competition in another.

      If you own one of the biggest newspapers in your town, and you also own a restaurant in that town, you cannot refuse to run ads in the paper from other restaurants in the same neighborhood as yours.
      You may however be fully within your rights to refuse ads from other newspapers, but I'm not so sure on that one either.

      To me, this just feels wrong.

      --
      -- This sig for rent.
    7. Re:They're within their rights... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      By having a monopoly they have an obligation of fairness. That said, thay are not allowed to select their ads on any other argument than any other public service would.

      They may not have monopoly of advertisement but they have monopoly ot TV. TV should then be considered as a public service offered by them. That is not the case.

    8. Re:They're within their rights... by unitron · · Score: 1
      If the local paper won't run your ad you're free to start your own paper, and if enough consumers consider your paper more worthy of their purchase than the other you'll have the satisfaction of having run them out of business. Publishing your newspaper won't use any limited public resources in such a way as to prevent anybody else from publishing their newspaper. A community can have as many newspapers as it can financially support, just as it can have as many plumbers, lawyers, private music instructors, CPAs, hardware stores, used car lots, etc.

      But that's newspapers and such. This is a municipal franchise granted to a cable company, and apparently as long as they hold it nobody else can operate a cable company in the same geographical area. This means that, unlike a newspaper, they have a monopoly. The city council or whoever that granted them that monopoly should have taken steps to prevent them from abusing that monopoly but if they didn't make provision to review the granting of that franchise until 14 years from now they're likely inept or corrupt or both.

      --

      I see even classic Slashdot is now pretty much unusable on dial up anymore.

  3. Not anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [nt]

  4. Yet, they fill every bit of free airtime by PotatoHead · · Score: 2

    with ads for their own add-on services.

    I have been buying DVDs and using an antenna recently for cost and value reasons. Spent a weekend house sitting for a friend. The number of self-serving Comcast ads is sickening.

    It is like listening to Clear Channel vs NPR.

    You are better off buying content on removable media you control, getting DSL and ignoring their self serving fat pipes...

    1. Re:Yet, they fill every bit of free airtime by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      This is what blows my mind: I usually see 2-3 ads for Comcast every day. WTF? I already have Comcast cable.

      However, I take exception at preferring removable media and DSL over cable. First, DSL isn't available everywhere (it was available through Northpoint, but Verizon won't). Also, in many areas, cable is much faster. I know it is for me. Second, believe it or not, but there are a few things worth watching on both cable and broadcast television. I also spend much less than one DVD rental per night on cable (granted with NetFlix, I'd spend less on the DVD's)

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    2. Re:Yet, they fill every bit of free airtime by PotatoHead · · Score: 1

      Yeah that is a lot of ads.

      I chose the DSL because of provider choice. End user policy is primary where speed is secondary to me. I get to run what I want how I want when I want. That's pretty valuable.

      Speed? No question cable is faster. So, there is both. So long as there are enough DSL'ers maybe that will preserve enough choice to keep Comcast semi-honest :)

      Things I miss on cable: SG1, Sopranos, Food Network (Iron Chef!). Ah well, gives me a reason to visit friends.

      I like having the content on media. It is a bit more expensive, but I get the final say on how it is used. DVD is open enough for that. (They did not intend it to be, but it is.)

      At first it was expensive, but now that the backfilling has been largely done, it boils down to a few purchases a month as the new stuff hits...

    3. Re:Yet, they fill every bit of free airtime by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      I only wish there were broadband competition where I'm located.

      The backfilling can be expensive. At one point in time, I had maybe 20 or 30 DVDs unviewed. Then, life intervened, and I think I only have 3-4:) But, I think I found the best of all worlds: borrowing my father's Sopranos DVDs. Sure, it's a year late, but I'll live.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    4. Re:Yet, they fill every bit of free airtime by Alsee · · Score: 1

      In the 4 year history of the DMCA, it has only been used against new technology developers, not actual infringers.

      Right.
      Copyright law protects copyrights and targets infringers. The DMCA isn't copyright law, therefore the it doesn't protect copyright and it doesn't target infringers. The DMCA is anti-cricumvention law, it protects DRM. Therefore the DMCA targets people who create technology that might interfere with DRM.

      In otherwords the DMCA is working exactly as designed.

      By the way, the DMCA makes certian THOUGHTS illegal. Yep, thought crime. It is perfectly possible to "descramble" some "effecting protection measures" in your head. The idiots who wrote the law were bamboozled by the "computers" and "decryption tools", they didn't realize they were actually outlawing though, knowledge, and math.

      Sorry for "preaching to the choir" :D
      I can't believe no one else has ever noticed the DMCA/thoughtcrime angle before. As far as I can tell I'm the first to point it out.

      -

      --
      - - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
    5. Re:Yet, they fill every bit of free airtime by PotatoHead · · Score: 1

      You are right on, but not the first. I have been bitching about that aspect of the DMCA from its inception.

      The DMCA treats us all like little kids. The knowing is wrongly connected to the doing, even if it is ethical.

      The way I grew up and how I make my living today is being slowly criminalized and I resent every last day of it.

      Fuckers.

  5. Dish Networks? by snubber1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In my area, Comcast just bought out AT&T cable. AT&T was in the habit of refusing to run advertisements for dish systems on the cable channels (you'll still see those ads on the local broadcast channels). Why should they have to advertise their competitors? Adversiting is not a right, its a service. Don't like it? Start your own cable network (where I live in tacoma, they did, Click Network.)

    --
    I don't really mind double posts on //..
    1. Re:Dish Networks? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Most places cannot form their own cable network, as they don't have the money to lay a second set of cable. Comcast has a monopoly on cable television, therefore they essentially have a monopoly on television advertising.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    2. Re:Dish Networks? by Sloppy · · Score: 1
      Adversiting is not a right, its a service.
      In a free market, certainly. This is a government-granted monopoly. Even the most reactionary Libertarian knows that government monopolies (if they're allowed to exist at all!) are a special case.
      --
      As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    3. Re:Dish Networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In some cases you will notice that Local station will not advertise for a Dish because the service they offer do not carry local chnls without additional fees to the customers ....
      "Why pay for something you get for free"
      Also, Comcast and any other Cable company can refuse service to whom ever they see is a dirrect threat in refrence to competition. Just to show some examples Adelphia Cable has in the past refused to offer channels that are owned buy other Cable Companies and they have even gone to the extent of not broadcasting Blockbuster Video commercial. because of the competition in that area.

    4. Re:Dish Networks? by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      You'll still see ads for Dish on some networks. Networks typically have slots alloted for the cable company to sell locally, while other slots are used at a national level. If USA Networks sells a national slot to DirectTV, DirectTV pays for the entire nation to see that ad. The cable company can't resell that slot locally.

  6. Slashdot First? by dankow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How often do you see people on Slashdot complaining about a lack of advertising?

    --
    I am the hub of Jack's digital lifestyle.
  7. Rights, wrongs, monopolies. by fm6 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    They have the right to refuse service to anyone.
    That's incorrect. A cable system isn't a kind of publisher. They operate under a franchise from a public entity -- usually a city or county. And there are various federal rules governing what they carry. They must, for example, carry all local broadcast stations.

    Though I doubt if any of this results in rules that require them to sell ads to their competitors. And presumably dish companies can still get access by buying time from the channels themselves. God knows I see plenty of dish commercials.

    Still, the word "monopoly" is quite appropriate. Except that cable companies are actual monopolies, not potential ones. Few cable customers have a choice of providers, despite attempts to create a competitive market. If you consider how much Americans rely on their TV sets for information, you should be considered about anybody in a position to control that information.

    1. Re:Rights, wrongs, monopolies. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should be 'considered'? I guess you watch too much TV, and missed english class...

  8. use the laws against them by zogger · · Score: 3, Interesting

    --make it a federal case, literally. Have a "minority" from the dsl service try to get the ad. If they refuse then, have the firm of dewey, cheatham and howe send them a letter. Most places will do anything to avoid getting a discrimination lawsuit. Don't emphasize the service you are trying to advertise,emphasize the person doing the asking if they refuse, then shop it to some law firms and local minority activism center. They love that stuff. Might even help if the local activism center was using this dsl service already-maybe, not sure on that one. It's a tightwire to walk though, going out of your way to FIND a lawsuit is quite risky. Weight the odds on it.

    Point two, screw 'em! Why would you want to beneift a monopoly company? If they sell ads, they "make money" off the ads. I say don't go there. Give your advertising money to talk radio instead,(especially independent, mom and pop stations, not clearchannel if possible, etc) the local alternative press newspaper, webcasters, make up a buhzillion flyers and hire some young folks to spread em out.

    Anyway, talk radio has a better cost/benefit ratio in most markets, especially target placement, study the shows, the hosts, the times. Obviously rush hour shows are usually the most expensive, but cover the widest range demographically..

    1. Re:use the laws against them by Jesus+IS+the+Devil · · Score: 1

      So you're basically advocating the abuse and bastardization of the race card just to bully someone into doing something totally unrelated?

      It's people like this that give minorities and real-life discrimination a bad rap.

      --

      eTrade SUCKS
    2. Re:use the laws against them by zogger · · Score: 1

      --actually, I was advocating not advertising with them at all, to spend the advertising money in other venues and areas. I mentioned the other as a possible tactic, but no, I don't really advocate it, but, because we DO have laws setup that way, all is fair. Change the law, or use it, all of the above. I probably should have reversed the sequence in my post, but oh well, that's how it came out. The riaa have political power, money to buy what they want, they've taken the gloves off bigtime, and being convicted bad guy goons, no, I don't see fighting back using most any tactic as being ethically "wrong". They have such a little claim to be "white hats" as to be laughable. I consider them to be little different from any other abusive monopoly, and they have been like that for decades now.

      Just as a general rule of thumb, I am of the "shunning" mindset when it comes to dealing with abusive industry and government. In this case, canned music,I personally don't buy their corporate music, nor do I download any, that's a different story, I just can see the generations long abuse the major records companies have gotten away with. Heh, I still call them records, no matter what format they are in. Anyway,they should have been broken up and fined into oblivion and executives gone to jail a long time ago. No matter how many times they have gotten busted, they are still there, muscleing and bribing their way into dominance. I personally boycott them, and have for a long time now. No tapes, cds or live concerts for any of those big name brand packaged bands, I quit roughly around the time cassettes became popular, and have been dissing them ever since. I buy a very few used ones like at yardsales, but the number is very low, I doubt I have more than 20 or so cassettes and cds of music total, and zero on any hard drives. They are all old. I made a decision to work a few venues for two big bands,as a steel climber on the stage crew, because I like climbing basically,but I wish I hadn't now, again, I saw how obsessive compulsive greed had taken over. If I had that time back I wouldn't have done it in hindsight. My mistake, back to dissing them.

      I say, don't download their crap, don't buy it, don't share it,don't go to their concerts, have nothing to do with them as the best possible solution. If you use any of the P2P software, limit it to legit music that is authorised to share, that is what I advocate, along with taking riaa to court if they harass you.

      I also advocate a complete overhaul of the copyright and patent and corporate charter "system" as it stands now, it's become an out of control disaster, IMO, along with the lobbying industry, which is really the legalised "bribery" industry that feeds the two party which is one party junta that has hijacked the nation's politics and government. It's all tied together near as I can see.

    3. Re:use the laws against them by Jesus+IS+the+Devil · · Score: 1

      Thanks for clearing up your position! :)

      --

      eTrade SUCKS
  9. Comcast aren't the only ones by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Time Warner Cable does it too. I don't see any commercials for DSL, they also cut out the EarthLink commercials (can't tell whether those are advertising dialup or broadband) and replace them with RoadRunner commercials.

  10. WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Unless you are confusing the words "date" and "see", WTF are you trying to express? Or are you just an idiot?

    Wanted to give you the chance to elaborate.

  11. Comcast does more than that... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    ...they own the Philadelphia Flyers and 76ers, and steadfastly refuse to sell any broadcast rights to the satellite TV companies, no matter how much they offer. If you don't have Comcast cable, you ain't seeing any of those teams' home games.

  12. That's a good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We really don't need any more hockey on TV.

  13. boo hoo... by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

    DSL sucks... We'd all be better off if the teleco's go under instead of propping up those dinosaurs. You have to ask yourself, who do you like less? Your cable company or SBC? After all, SBC is trying to re-create "Ma Bell." Only prob is, its a different world than pre 1984. Once the cable companies have switched over to pure digital transmission and offer telephone service, say goodbye to SBC.

    --
    "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*
    1. Re:boo hoo... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once the cable companies have switched over to pure digital transmission and offer telephone service

      They haven't already?

    2. Re:boo hoo... by The+Lynxpro · · Score: 1

      I live in Sacramento. We had our local cable monopoly that sold out to Comcast. Then when AT&T Broadband swapped assets with Comcast, they took the Sacramento/Davis market(s). Now Comcast is once again in control since they bought AT&T Broadband. They still haven't phased out analog cable and we still do not have cable telephony in this market. I believe it is scheduled for next year...

      --
      "Right now, somewhere in this world, Scott Baio is plowing a woman he doesn't love," - Peter Griffin, *Family Guy*