Source Engine Vampire Title Explored

Thanks to Eurogamer.net for their preview of Vampire:The Masquerade - Bloodlines, with new info and screenshots on the FPS/RPG hybrid from Troika, the creators of Fallout and Arcanum, and the first announced title apart from Half-Life 2 to use Valve's Source Engine. According to a Troika representative, "Bloodlines is the first game to combine the classic RPG feel with a first person shooter engine", and Eurogamer also single out the return of the classic RPG 'conversation tree' as providing fresh gameplay ideas: "For example, your character may have excellent seduction skills, or be part of a specific clan that allows you to ask questions or offer responses otherwise unavailable to you, and these 'special' branches of the conversation will be shown in a different font to indicate this."

Comments

Oops! I forgot.

[Creepy Crawler]

""and these 'special' branches of the conversation will be shown in a different font to indicate this""

Yep, and in real life, the text you hear after X special event is GREEN (!?).
Oh, sorry. That's Neverwinter nights.

But still, SOOOOOOOO REALISTIC for an rpg. I guess you gotta tell the (l)users what text is different. Cant actually use your head to figure it out yourself.

Re:Oops! I forgot.

[Stargoat]

Hmmmm. Underly realistic vampires. I'm real concerned.

As a player, if I want a realistic game, I won't be playing one with vampires. As it is, this sounds like a pretty cool game.

First RPG to use an FPS engine?

[skyknytnowhere]

Haven't they heard of Deus Ex? System Shock 2? Please.

RPGs and FPSs have been mixed many times, the first person RPG having been ignored lately. But games like Ultima Underworld, the Bard's Tale series, and numerous others that focus on exploring from a first person perspective.

skye

Re:First RPG to use an FPS engine?

[MrResistor]

No kidding!

Daggerfall was a first person RPG and it came out in, what, '96?

That's the earliest one I can remember, but I doubt it was the first.

Re:First RPG to use an FPS engine?

[Danse]

I'm trying to recall what engine each of those used. They didn't say they were the first to combine FPS and RPG genres, they said they were first to create an RPG using an FPS game engine (Namely the Half-Life 2 Source engine). Since I can't recall if any of those other games you mention used an FPS game engine or just used their own custom engines, I can't tell if they're right or wrong, but I thought the argument was based on an incorrect interpretation of their comment.

Re:First RPG to use an FPS engine?

[bigbigbison]

deus ex was the unreal engine. i think system shock 1 and 2 was proprietary. There was also strife way back in the day which used the doom engine.

Re:First RPG to use an FPS engine?

[captainktainer]

System Shock 2 used the Thief engine, and although the engine is still solid, the graphics are starting to show some age. Hence, fans are updating the skins and models.

The original System Shock used the Ultima Underworld engine, with improvements and tweaks suited to the setting. Check out The System Shock Hack Project for technical details.

I've been trying to find ways to volunteer for all of these projects, but being a non-coder it's rather difficult. Ah, well.

Re:First RPG to use an FPS engine?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ultima Underworld was earlier (1992? 1993? before '94, to be sure) and there may be even earlier examples.

First person shooter

[neostorm]

"...first game to combine the classic RPG feel with a first person shooter engine."

Geez and I've been playing Morrowind these past couple years thinking I'd hit gold. Thanks for straightening me out guys!

Re:First person shooter

[Porphyro]

Well, it isn't saying that its the first 1st-person RPG. Only the first to use the engine of a 1st-person shooter, namely Half-Life 2. Morrowind used its own engine.

Re:First person shooter

[neostorm]

Excelent point. I'll read more carefully next time.

Re:First person shooter

[d3kk]

I'd say Deus Ex was an RPG, or at least pretty close to being one, and I believe that used the Unreal engine. Correct me if I'm wrong. Regardless, I'm sure there are other games. This is just bullshit marketing.

Re:First person shooter

[Outland Traveller]

Deux Ex! That game was so good.. Why, why hasn't there been a game like that recently?

I played it three times and patched XMMS so it would play the deus ex theme music. This game truly raised the bar of the FPS genre so high hardly anyone has been able to touch it for years.

Re:First person shooter

[Danse]

Why, why hasn't there been a game like that recently?

Because DX2: Invisible War isn't out yet. :P

This isn't the first RPG to repurpose a FPS engine

[A_Wandering_Nomad]

Anachronox was. 3d game glossary [http://www.bluesnews.com/guide/qe/games.htm]

Realism is overrated

[Amit J. Patel]

I'm playing a game. I don't want it to be realistic. I don't want to deal with eating, bathroom breaks, or "that time of the month". I don't want to wait 8 hours while my characters sleep. I want to be able to pause the game. I don't want to deal with colds and flus and lyme disease. I don't want to deal with dying without being able to reload. I don't want to play the boring parts of the story.

As far as special colors and fonts go, my random guess would be that for replayability, you want to help the player the second time through (as you're playing a different clan/race/class) by emphasizing the text that may change. You normally skip the long text the second time you play the game, so you need something to draw your eye to the things you need to pay attention to.

Realism is overrated in games. The point of the game is to escape real life, not to emulate it.

- Amit

Re:Realism is overrated

[Elwood P Dowd]

I don't want to deal with colds and flus and lyme disease.

But for some reason you do want to deal with Lycanthropy? What, do you expect the game designers to anticipate your every whim? Jesus.

Re:Realism is overrated

[AvitarX]

seems to me that it could be a dead gice-away to what you are supposed to do.

But I will hold off judgement.

because it could also be an indication that an option means you are using a power which has risks/costs in which case you need to know about it.

In my opinion though, if one of your options is because someone with special access (friends in the paper RPG) is quitly pulling strings for you, you should not know that is a special thing for you if it is being treated normaly by the NPC. So I think could could very easily spoil the challenge or be annoying (Yes/No in Final Fantasy III US).

Its using Valves Source engine features..

[BrookHarty]

Both the exterior and interior are on a par with anything you may have seen in Half-Life 2, but with a darker, grimier, nocturnal edge. Any NPC you happen to come across is not only rendered with immense attention to detail but talks to you with a level of facial animation and lip synching that can't fail to impress.

This really is an Amazing engine. Valve has out did themselves with the features for character interaction and the enviroment. This engine will be the choice for games for the next 3-5 years.

Also, I read that HL mods will be able to be imported with minimal code tweaking. I cant wait to see CS ported to this engine, or even Day of Defeat.

As American Army was the first to use Unreal's 2003 engine, Bloodlines is the first to use the "Source" HL2 engine.

Re:Its using Valves Source engine features..

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL america's army uses the original unreal engine. Not unreal 2003. you FUCKING MORON.

Re:Its using Valves Source engine features..

[BrookHarty]

LOL america's army uses the original unreal engine. Not unreal 2003. you FUCKING MORON.

BZZZT Wrong, little dickless AC.

Unreal wiki website, 3rd gen engine (aka 2003) games are listed below.

Third Generation Builds
Announced
[Deux Ex 2] - ION Storm Austin (build number unknown. is known that they gutted the renderer completely and integrated Havok physics instead of Karma)
[Lineage II] - NCSoft
[Postal 2] - Running with Scissors (927 or 2110)
[Loophole] - Hidden Dinosaur
[The Lost] - Irrational Games (PS2)
[Thief III] - ION Storm Austin (build number unknown. is known that they gutted the renderer completely and integrated Havok physics instead of Karma)
[XIII] - Ubi Soft
Vampire Hunter - Psyonix
Released
[America's Army] - US Army (927)
[Devastation] - [ARush Entertainment], [Digitalo], [Groove]
[Raven Shield] - [Red Storm Entertainment]
[Splinter Cell] - Ubi Soft
[Unreal II] - Legend Entertainment
[Unreal Championship] - Digital Extremes - Xbox only
[Unreal Tournament 2003] - Epic Games and [Digital Extremes]

Re:Its using Valves Source engine features..

[Anonymous Coward]

The Unreal engine has been undergoing continual development, and different games have used different versions of that same engine. No two games have used the exact same version.

The original Vampire: The Masquerade PC game

[mmdurrant]

I played the first Vampire game and really enjoyed it. It was based on Quake3 technology somehow or at least it used Q3Radiant as the level editor.
The coolest thing was that all the game logic was implemented in Java, making mods for it pretty darn easy. My friends and I had a good time creating quests and attributes/disciplines. I hope the new one is just as extensible.

Double what?

[August_zero]

Thankyou

I like Troika, but comments like "we are the first" when they are very clearly not, do nothing but make if difficult to not like them less.

Level and Mod creation

[sirmikester]

I wonder if the creators of Vampire will be as open to mod and level creation as Valve is. With the use of the source engine, I think that there will be many tools available to the community but developer support is crucial too. I guess time will tell.

Re:Level and Mod creation

[2megs]

I wonder if the creators of Vampire will be as open to mod and level creation as Valve is. With the use of the source engine, I think that there will be many tools available to the community but developer support is crucial too.

What exactly would it mean to you, to create a mod based on Vampire as opposed to HL2? If you were going to strip a game down to the engine and build your own unique gameplay and content, there aren't that many differences between what you'd have left of our stuff and what you'd have left of their stuff. I'm genuinely curious about what it is that you're expecting to see from Troika in this area, because as the lead programmer on the project I have some small amount of influence over this. :)

Re:Level and Mod creation

[sirmikester]

You bring up a good point, an engine is an engine, but there might be some game specific stuff that mod developers can use. I wouldn't expect much from Troika from an engine standpoint, but I think that a friendly attitude toward mod developers (ie not hassling them over using game content and being helpful when it comes to questions) would go a long way toward developing an active community around the game.

Time of Judgment

[etherlad]

Bloodlines will, Enter-the-Matrix-like, feature the Time of Judgment (i.e. Gehenna) prominently as part of its story. And there are some revelations about Gehenna which will only be revealed to those who play Bloodlines.

Eh?

[SuiteSisterMary]

also single out the return of the classic RPG 'conversation tree' as providing fresh gameplay ideas: "For example, your character may have excellent seduction skills, or be part of a specific clan that allows you to ask questions or offer responses otherwise unavailable to you, and these 'special' branches of the conversation will be shown in a different font to indicate this."

What, like KOTOR? Or, gee, Fallout?

Re:Eh?

[skyknytnowhere]

Shh! You're revealing the unoriginality of everything they're hyping!

I wish they'd just say something really cool, like "We're totally sticking to the rulebook" or "We're aiming for an entirely open-ended game."

I mean, the things they are touting are akin to announcing a new RPG system and being like "We've got, like, 3 new types of dice and really cool paper in our books."

You don't buy an RPG for the dice or the paper, you buy it for the content.

skye