Slashdot Mirror
NetBSD Packages Collection Gets 'pkgviews'
jschauma writes "NetBSD's Packages Collection aka
pkgsrc now has support for an experimental new framework called ``pkgviews''.
This framework, finally allowing multiple versions of one package to co-exist
without conflicts (among other great features), was first proposed by Alistair
Crooks at EuroBSDCon
2002 and has been integrated into pkgsrc by Johnny C. Lam, who just posted
a User's
guide to the tech-pkg MailingList."
pwnt
This is something that is always welcome. Its quite often the case that one would like the original version of s/w and new version coexisting during (say) a transitional period.
This can be a pain to manage, hopefully the migration of this kind of tool will ease the pain of this.
Be nice to people on the way up. You will meet them again on your way down!
BSD is deader than your cock.
|*l33z kOm3nT in m4h j00rnehl
This looks very similar to GNU Stow, which a derivative of CMU Depot. By the way, we (a University right down the street from CMU) also used an internal derivative of Depot, called Parcel, but we've mostly phased that out now.
This is not a Fugazi
hahaha.
- Obsolete packages (yes, even in unstable)
- Crappy hardware support
- Old kernel
- Hard to installL
- Hard to install
- Hard to install
Lets compare this to a decent distributions such as Mandrake.Upto date packages
Good hardware support
New kernel
Easy to install
Great community
No annoying domain hijacking zealots
Proudly gets the -1, flamebait for being so much better than Crapian
Yes, this is offtopic (on a BSD), flamebait (Debian zealots get more mod points, "Waah, I don't like the truth"), and maybe even troll (because of goatse). But DEBIAN SUCKS and it has to be said. If you are a BSD user moderate this up, if any OS is dying, its DEBIAN, not BSD.
All the *BSD is dying posts are contained in this one post to spare the BSD section of the heavy trolling. If I've missed any, please add your troll as a reply and I'll include it in the next Troll-in-one. Keep your flames to yourself -- I already know you have a distorted psychological need to imagine BSD as dying because it only helps to relieve the cognitive dissonance you are currently experiencing with Linux. In reality, though, it only shows a deep-seated jealousy towards BSD, which you'll go to any lengths to deny.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
The *BSD Wailing Song
What's left for me to see
In my ship I sailed so far
What can the answer be
Don't know what the questions are.
And after all I've done
Still I cannot feel the sun
Tell me save me
In the end our lost souls must repent.
I must know it is for certain
Can it be the final curtain
As long as the wind will blow
I'll be searching high and low.
Who knows what's really true
They say the end is so near
Why are we all so cruel
We just fill ourselves with fear.
And heaven and hell will turn
All that we love shall burn
Hear me trust me
In the end our lost sould must repent.
I must know it is for certain
Can it be the final curtain
As long as the wind will blow
I'll be searching high and low
Final curtain
Final curtain
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
pressed to bsd lips
bsd drink up
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
I don't want to start a holy war here, but what is the deal with you BSD fanatics? I've been sitting here at my freelance gig in front of a BSD box (a PIII 800 w/512 Megs of RAM) for about 20 minutes now while it attempts to copy a 17 Meg file from one folder on the hard drive to another folder. 20 minutes. At home, on my Pentium Pro 200 running NT 4, which by all standards should be a lot slower than this BSD box, the same operation would take about 2 minutes. If that.
In addition, during this file transfer, Netscape will not work. And everything else has ground to a halt. Even Emacs Lite is straining to keep up as I type this.
I won't bore you with the laundry list of other problems that I've encountered while working on various BSD machines, but suffice it to say there have been many, not the least of which is I've never seen a BSD box that has run faster than its Windows counterpart, despite the BSD machines faster chip architecture. My 486/66 with 8 megs of ram runs faster than this 800 mhz machine at times. From a productivity standpoint, I don't get how people can claim that BSD is a "superior" machine.
BSD addicts, flame me if you'd like, but I'd rather hear some intelligent reasons why anyone would choose to use a BSD over other faster, cheaper, more stable systems.
vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
It is common knowledge that *BSD is dying. Almost everyone knows that ever hapless *BSD is mired in an irrecoverable and mortifying tangle of fatal trouble. It is perhaps anybody's guess as to which *BSD is the worst off of an admittedly suffering *BSD community. The numbers continue to decline for *BSD but FreeBSD may be hurting the most. Look at the numbers. The erosion of user base for FreeBSD continues in a head spinning downward spiral.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of BSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 =
[ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]
When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.
Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.
FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.
It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.
So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.
Discussion
I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.
From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.
There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.
Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.
Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?
Shouts
To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.
To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It
aND jUST aS gAY!!!!!!
One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.
FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dying
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.
Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.
OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.
Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.
All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.
Fact: *BSD is dead
The only gripe I've had with FreeBSD installs is that some packages depend on different versions of Apache, for example. While either would work, the scripts don't know that, and there's no way to get the two versions to coexist. Hopefully they'll adopt this functionality too.
Let's put all the immaturity aside for a moment... Seriously! No *BSD sucks cause we feel inferior, insecure or just hate anything non-Linux cause it's a "cool" thing for Linux kids to say these days...
What I'd personally love to see is a BSD distro (yes, think in Linux terms, but without the Linux fragmentation and non-standardization) using the Linux kernel for it's features/bloat. I don't know if such a thing is possible and of course that would take a lot of cleaning in the Linux kernel, but it would be nice to have just the same.
Regardless of what they call the Linux stable kernel series, with "(EXPERIMENTAL) and (NEW)" in the kernel making it a test bed for production use, hence an unstable kernel but with the name stable. I think EXPERIMENTAL should be left to the 2.5.x series only - NOT 2.4.x / 2.6.x!
It would make a great system. Features up the yin yang from Linux, hardware support up the ying yang, even while some things are "experimental" but with the "standardness" of *BSD. What would be even better is if the BSD crew would actually take the time to correct all the Linux flaws and develop it properly for such a system, as should be done now but not the case.
I know that would take a long time, but not too long seeing as Linux is ONLY a kernel and not an OS such as the *BSD's are.
Sure, it would make it a GNU/GPL system with a restrictive license such as the GPL "forcing" it's developers and others to ALWAYS release the source to their products for competitors to take over, but hey, it would make a great desktop platform as Linux is meant to be!
So what if it's GPL and competitors have the rights to the source to put those other business out of business, that's what the GPL is all about!
It's no wonder LinkSys didn't want to release the GPL'd source. They were too ignorant to see the flaws of GPL and business. It's a non-business friendly license but great for companies such as RH (M$ of Linux) to laugh all the way to the bank.
But hey, we all hate M$, even though RH is M$ in the Linux world. We're just too stupid to see this.
M$ funds money to research and what not. RH funds money to, ummm, making more money off of the Linux kernel.
Think the reverse of the Debian/NetBSD system which I think was/is a waste of time. Had they only thought in reverse, in the more logical sense, something good would have come out of it.
Now if only Linux could become non-fragmented (288 distro's last I checked 2 yrs ago) and get a proper development model such as the *BSD's then standardize such as the *BSD's, not to mention following more industry standards such as NAT (Network Address Translation) rather than IP Masq.
Oh, and I think another good thing for Linux's poor development model would be following *BSD's development model where not everyone's mom, dog, grandmother and friends alike can throw in their code to Linux.
-- I'm just another Linux user with my eyes on the BSD's lately. I've tried all three and I'm pretty amazed at the standardization, corectness and very clean code that would make any CS instructor proud!
This is the worse pile of shit I've ever read.
Just know this:
BSD is a dead bitch.
Thank You.
The driver of the bus was negotiating a bend in the road when he lost control of the vehicle which skidded and crashed into a gorge, nearly 200 feet below. Residents of nearby villages and authorities found 22 bodies. NetBSD was among the dead. The corpse has gone unclaimed, leading to speculation that BSD was indeed an orphan. Calls to former spouse Wind River went unreturned.
BEIJING (AFP) - Four people and one shit operating system were killed and 31 injured when a long distance bus crashed into a parked lorry in a central section of China's north-south Beijing-Zhuhai expressway, state press reported Monday.
The accident occurred in foggy weather in Hunan province in the early hours of Monday when the bus smashed into the parked truck which had failed to pull over fully to the side of the road, Xinhua news agency said.
Police confirmed that *BSD is among the dead. *BSD is now nothing more than blue-flash roadmash, surrounded by stretchers, covered heads and slippery red macadam. Further details about the dead and injured were not available.
Police officials in Hunan are blaming the truck driver for the accident, citing his failure to pull his broken-down vehicle completely off the road, it said.
The coach was badly damaged in the wreck, while the lorry driver escaped without injury.
The coach had departed Sunday afternoon from Guangdong province's Dongguan city and was bound for Hubei province as part of China's annual Lunar New Year travel rush.
China's dangerous highways clock 15 percent of global auto deaths, although the nation has only two percent of the world's cars, according to Ministry of Public Safety figures.
Although it has been obvious for some time (to anyone except the self deluded fanboys of *BSD) that *BSD, that sickly, torpid, sluggish OS, was in the process of its final decomposition, it is nevertheless surprising that the 16th century writer and seer Nostradamus could have accurately predicted its demise, before computers were even invented. Yet in my research I have found clear passages within Nostradamus' quatrains which indicate this to be the case.
In three linked quatrains, Nostradamus firstly predicts the beginning of *BSD
C3Q67
A new sect of Philosophers >>"Philosophers" - likely there was no 18th century french word to convey "fat ever-virgin homo hackers".
Despising death, gold, honors and riches >>free
Will not be bordering upon the German mountains: >>Not in Germany - ever clearer
To follow them they will have power and crowds. >>Electricity / Internet
Then its eventual demise at the hands of the very community that created it- its "bride"
C2Q98
The one whose face is splattered with the blood
of the victim nearly sacrificed: >>death from a thousand cuts - the hatred and pride which led to the death of the house of *BSD
Jupiter in Leon, omen through presage: >>"Leon" mistranslation of "Theo"?
To be put to death then for the bride. >>Death for *BSD
And the character and predilections of those hackers:
C5Q68
In the Danube and of the Rhine will come to drink
The great Camel, not repenting it: >>Holiday in Europe
Those of the Rhone to tremble, and much more so those of the Loire,
and near the Alps the Cock will ruin him. >>Homosexual activity
So in summary, these 3 quatrains predict the 1)Creation of "Free" software 2)"Electricity" - suggests computers 3) the death of *BSD 4)"Cock will ruin him" - loner homo hackers.
Now, no doubt I will be modded down, the slashdot community is well known for its protection of homosexuals and promotion of the homosexual lifestyle. But please - hear the message from history. Look at the evidence before you, and accept the inevitable. Your pathetic OS is already dead
What We Can Learn From BSD
By Chinese Karma Whore, Version 1.0
Almost everyone knows about BSD's failure and imminent demise. As we pore over the history of BSD, we'll uncover a story of fatal mistakes, poor priorities, and personal rivalry, and we'll learn what mistakes to avoid so as to save Linux from a similarly grisly fate.
Let's not be overly morbid and give BSD credit for its early successes. In the 1970s, Ken Thompson and Bill Joy both made significant contributions to the computing world on the BSD platform. In the 80s, DARPA saw BSD as the premiere open platform, and, after initial successes with the 4.1BSD product, gave the BSD company a 2 year contract.
These early triumphs would soon be forgotten in a series of internal conflicts that would mar BSD's progress. In 1992, AT&T filed suit against Berkeley Software, claiming that proprietary code agreements had been haphazardly violated. In the same year, BSD filed countersuit, reciprocating bad intentions and fueling internal rivalry. While AT&T and Berkeley Software lawyers battled in court, lead developers of various BSD distributions quarreled on Usenet. In 1995, Theo de Raadt, one of the founders of the NetBSD project, formed his own rival distribution, OpenBSD, as the result of a quarrel that he documents on his website. Mr. de Raadt's stubborn arrogance was later seen in his clash with Darren Reed, which resulted in the expulsion of IPF from the OpenBSD distribution.
As personal rivalries took precedence over a quality product, BSD's codebase became worse and worse. As we all know, incompatibilities between each BSD distribution make code sharing an arduous task. Research conducted at MIT found BSD's filesystem implementation to be "very poorly performing." Even BSD's acclaimed TCP/IP stack has lagged behind, according to this study.
Problems with BSD's codebase were compounded by fundamental flaws in the BSD design approach. As argued by Eric Raymond in his watershed essay, The Cathedral and the Bazaar, rapid, decentralized development models are inherently superior to slow, centralized ones in software development. BSD developers never heeded Mr. Raymond's lesson and insisted that centralized models lead to 'cleaner code.' Don't believe their hype - BSD's development model has significantly impaired its progress. Any achievements that BSD managed to make were nullified by the BSD license, which allows corporations and coders alike to reap profits without reciprocating the goodwill of open-source. Fortunately, Linux is not prone to this exploitation, as it is licensed under the GPL.
The failure of BSD culminated in the resignation of Jordan Hubbard and Michael Smith from the FreeBSD core team. They both believed that FreeBSD had long lost its earlier vitality. Like an empire in decline, BSD had become bureaucratic and stagnant. As Linux gains market share and as BSD sinks deeper into the mire of decay, their parting addresses will resound as fitting eulogies to BSD's demise.
Aparently the BSD crows have been driven away from Slashdot by the constant trolls.
... are there any sites that I'm missing ?
So were can I get BSD relevant news now ? I know there's deadly.org and bsdforums.org
"IF IT'S over a year, BSD's not ever going to get up," said Fred Plum, a professor emeritus at Weill Cornell College in New York. "You'd just don't see it. It just doesn't happen."
BSD, 39, has been in a persistent vegetative state since its heart stopped for unknown reasons in 1990. A feeding tube in BSD's stomach was removed this past Wednesday after its husband, Theo De Ratt, who said his wife had told him she (BSD) would not want to be kept alive under such circumstances, won a long series of court battles to have life-sustaining nourishment withdrawn so she (BSD) could die.
Somewhere, in a lonely hospital room,
*BSD is dying
BSD on Slashdot is dead. Period. The End.
Leave before the smell over powers you.
DEAD == BSD.
PLEASE FUCK OFF AND DIe ARSEHOLE!
bSD IS BLOODY WELL DEAD. bITCH.
You are the biggest cunt I have ever met. You sink like a nun's twat.
Please fuck off and die you bastard.
I shit on you.
The trolls will prevail in BSD land - the dead land.
P.S. BSD is dying.
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The record is clear on one thing: no operating system has ever come back from the grave. Efforts to resuscitate *BSD are one step away from spiritualists wishing to communicate with the dead. As the situation grows more desperate for the adherents of this doomed OS, the sorrow takes hold. An unremitting gloom hangs like a death shroud over a once hopeful *BSD community. All hope is gone; a mournful nostalgia has settled in. Now is the end time for *BSD.
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