Wireless Technologies for ISPs?

PhraudulentOne asks: "I work for a small rural ISP in Canada and we are planning to offer highspeed internet access (512k-2Mbps) for our rural customers that are too far down the line (or are unlucky enough to be in another carriers area) to receive DSL access. I am wondering how many of you have had success deploying wireless over a 3-10 mile range and what technologies worked for you. I have deployed a 2.4Ghz solution in the past by Alvarion but this time I am interested in the possibilities of 5.8Ghz/3.5Ghz/900Mhz or 2.4Ghz. I have looked at some technologies (ie. Angel) that work in the 1900Mhz spectrum as well. NLOS (non line of sight) would be great which 900Mhz works well with, but high bandwidth would also be a plus."

"I am also thinking about providing hotspot access in some of the neighbouring towns so the locals can hang out in the parks or their backyards with a laptop and get some decent bandwidth. We could use PPPoE to offer a paid service (cheap!) for anyone to roam around the town and be online outside (hopefully 100% coverage). Some of the towns here are only 2-4 square miles so we could put up a couple of towers and cover everyone using technologies like ADC's Loopstar. Basically there are a lot of Wireless companies starting up and it seems like a fierce market - I would like some recommendations on companies that have been around for awhile and that you think will still be around in a couple of years - It seems I get a lot of PR and little substance from the ones I have been dealing with thus far."

Comments

Cellular Interference?

[Bruha]

The 1900 and 900 Mhz bands are Cellular in the US for CDMA not sure about canada but unless it's all GSM up there (STill the chance of those's freq's) not sure you could use them..

But down the pipe there is ultrawideband and 20km WAP devices on their way.. might want to look for them.

802.11b

[Goyuix]

I had my parents on a service in Utah where the provider basically had a high gain omni with an amp and blasted the air with their signal (still not sure how legal it all really is, but no one complains so the FCC doesn't really care)... then a directional dish-like receiver on the client end to connect. It worked OK, but was very testy due to wind blowing and it was also during the height of the blaster worm which very much so wrecked havoc over their wireless nodes.

I guess the lesson I took from this is, you can probably do it the least expensively using 802.11b gear, but service just wasn't that great. You may want to seriously consider 900Mhz as it isn't quite as fussy as the 2.4Ghz stuff. Even though it probably won't be as fast, your customers will probably be happier.

In a similar situation

[Anonymous Coward]

My company used pigeons carrying the TCP/IP packets from point A to point B.

Our experience providing wireless Internet service

[texchanchan]

The company I work for, Wiacomm, provides wireless Internet service in rural suburbs in Tarrant Co. and Parker Co. west of Fort Worth, Texas, and Kaufman Co. east of Dallas, Texas.

We use mostly Alvarion equipment and find it very satisfactory.

• The equipment itself is solid (doesn't break often).
• Speed is excellent, ranging up to 1.2 megabits with most subscribers toward the high end.
• Alvarion engineers provide first-class support on the mailing list.
• Most important, you can get a lot of data from the equipment via telnet or Alvarion's gui "BreezeCONFIG Access" program. We run it on Windows 2000. I don't know if it is available for Linux or UNIX.

Wiacomm's two big POPs and three of the smaller cells use 2.4 GHz access points, either standalone with omni or sector antennas, or the all-in-on cell extender (CX) units. Two more POPs use a different wireless system, Cirronet Wavebolt.

Two POPs are in wooded small towns, Crandall, TX, and Combine, TX. There we installed 900 MHz APs. I believe these are CXs. You can get CXs that go from one frequency range to another--e.g., input 2.4 GHz, output 900 MHz. However, for the one in Combine and a new, not yet functional AP in Rosser, TX, we use a set of 5.8 GHz Trango units for backhaul.

Speeds for the 900 MHz subscribers are comparable to the speeds the 2.4 GHz customers are getting--very fast!

A company associated with us, AEIWireless.Net, in Lakeside, TX, uses 5.8 Alvarion gear with OFDM capability. They are just getting started, so I can't report on their experience yet.

You can see maps of Wiacomm and AEIWireless coverage at the sites linked above. The maps do not indicate frequency range. Especially note the "detail map" of the Covered Bridge Canyon area. This clearly reveals the biggest drawback of line-of-sight frequencies such as 2.4 GHz of any sort. Hilly topography cuts your service area way down!

The downside of Alvarion equipment is price, but we think it's worth it. Keep in mind what you aren't paying in maintenance and support.

Security is also better with frequency-hopping systems. And, nobody's going to buy a $500 SU (subscriber unit) to go wardriving in the hopes that someone, somewhere, is set up with Alvarion.

How does wireless broadband work?

[ObviousGuy]

I was wondering how you keep people from hooking into the wireless system without paying for a subscription?

Is there some device-specific authentication (based on MAC address or something)? If so, does that mean that each computer in a customer's house needs to be subscribed separately?

Or is there a receiver box (maybe with a router) located in the customer's house which is authenticated by the ISP? Wouldn't this preclude roaming?

How many wireless ISP schemes are there? How do they let customers in and non-customers out?

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[larry bagina]

My cable broadband access is authenticated by MAC address. Almost every (consumer level) router has the ability to set it's own MAC address for that purpose.

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[ObviousGuy]

I'm running an ADSL broadband line at my house, and splitting the line with a wireless (802.11g) router. However, it means that I can only use my "wireless broadband" network at home. (It's really a wired broadband account, of course.)

Am I missing the point of wireless broadband access? Is it more akin to normal the standard wired broadband where you have a modem/router sitting in the house picking up the broadband signal over the air instead of through the telephone/cable lines?

I would have thought that wireless broadband would be more like having 802.11 hotspots tappable from anywhere. Maybe I'm mistaken.

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[iantri]

The point is that in Nowheresville there is no infrastructure in place for broadband and noone can be buggered to put it in to service a very few people.

With wireless, you can blast the signal out to a >10km range for very little cost.

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[Anonymous Coward]

How does a client connect? Via a home-based modem/router? Through an 802.11 NIC?

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[texchanchan]

Re, "I was wondering how you keep people from hooking into the wireless system without paying for a subscription?"

- We use proprietary Alvarion equipment which only talks to its own brand. The CPEs (customer premise units or subscriber units, SUs) are expensive and not readily available to consumers. As ObviousGuy speculated, the Alvarion system does have a receiver radio at the customer's house, which is authenticated by the AP, the central radio (in our setup). This does prevent roaming in the usual sense of the word. The technology is sometimes called fixed wireless for that reason. You can get a mobile unit, but for it to work the area has to be pretty saturated with coverage, more than is necessary to provide connectivity to most residences and businesses.

"Is there some device-specific authentication (based on MAC address or something)?"

- This is also possible.

"If so, does that mean that each computer in a customer's house needs to be subscribed separately?"

No, because the mac address of the router would work. Our subscribers (Wiacomm, Inc.--see post above) live for the most part in widely spaced exurban houses on 1 to 5 acre lots. It's possible that someone might piggyback on a subscriber's wireless router, but we do encourage them to change the password and use normal security precautions.

"How many wireless ISP schemes are there?"

- As many as you'd like to count! Read the mailing list archives at isp-wireless.com or Part 15 for more information on all aspects of the WISP industry.

"How do they let customers in and non-customers out?"

This is the big question. It's one reason we went with proprietary equipment instead of 802.11b.

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[iantri]

I would assume that there would be a wireless "modem" that would connect to your outdoor antenna (For the wireless signal) and to any old NIC via an Ethernet jack.

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[iaredam]

Just use a service like PPPOE like someone already suggested. The client software is free (Raspoet), or possibly cheap(Enternet). Every user who would connect to wireless would need to be authenticated before they would be able to access the net.

Re:How does wireless broadband work?

[PhraudulentOne]

I was wondering how you keep people from hooking into the wireless system without paying for a subscription?

Is there some device-specific authentication (based on MAC address or something)? If so, does that mean that each computer in a customer's house needs to be subscribed separately?

Wireless companies do this differently. Some have a WEP key, some do MAC address authentication, some have a proprietary authentication system, some have a service ID (like an ESSID for a cellphone) etc. or a combination of several of these.

Or is there a receiver box (maybe with a router) located in the customer's house which is authenticated by the ISP? Wouldn't this preclude roaming?

At the customers residence, there will be a CPE Radio with an RJ45 (ethernet) jack that plugs into your PC or router. This radio will be connected to the antenna located in or outside your house. The radio will have a MAC address that is usually used for authentication or will be programmed with the ESSID of the tower, the WEP key etc. The system usually doesn't care what MAC address your PC or Router is using... it just allows anything from an authenticated radio. This is not 802.11b/g so it is highly unlikely that someone could piggyback onto your connection. They would need the ESSID and probably have to spoof the MAC address at a bare minimum to gain access. Some solutions that I have seen have a master database that has every radios mac address entered which is associated with a customers name/number or some customer ID that you could use. This prevents someone from looking at what kind of equipment you use, then going out and purchasing that equipment with the intent of free access. If they aren't in the database, the Access Points will not allow the CPE radio to talk to them. If you want to add another layer, you could simply run PPPoE to authenticate any PC or Router.

Basically there are a bunch of different security measures that can be used, so you can feel pretty safe that nobody thieving your bandwidth.

Strange moderation

[Anonymous Coward]

I wasn't really Insightful. Interesting, maybe, but please reserve these upwards mods for any good answers to the questions.

OG

Re:Strange moderation

[Anonymous Coward]

I wasn't really Insightful. Interesting, maybe, but please reserve these upwards mods for any good answers to the questions.

Are you trying to pretend that you run this site? Because that's what it seems like. Don't tell moderators how to mod, that's why there are moderators, and not a modertron.

Canopy

[Cyberop5]

My ISP uses Motorola Canopy equipment. It operates in the 5.8ghz range and is LOS. It is fast and fairly reliable. Because of the frequency, there is little interference. Its fast - up to 3 megs/sec. It works well in hilly communities where high peaks can have antennas put on them. but still, its Line of sight.

Re:Canopy

[Yablo]

Path Broadband uses Motorola Canopy gear as well. They're a fairly small (and fairly new) ISP in the Broomfield/Boulder, Colorado area. We got it at work for a test network, and it hauls ass.

Re:Canopy

[PhraudulentOne]

Cyberop5, I was actually at a Motorola Canopy meeting yesterday and we are definately swaying in that direction right now. They have free software upgrades twice a year that add huge features to their exisiting hardware base. They are coming out with a new board model for all of their hardware this spring that will effectively double their bandwidth and distance so I think I am going to wait until then. Very promising technology. Thanks!

Deployed Technologies

[wHartHog(69)]

You might want to check out Navini for licensed and unlicensed technologies. I do not know if their equipment has passed the Canadian equivalent of the FCC but they now have a decent platform. Not cheap, but it certainly works.

canopy vs turango

[Hubert_Shrump]

we've done comparisons of canopy vs turango, and found turango to be pretty cool.

our tests today gave us 8 meg at 10 miles with no reflectors dead on, with degredation to 3 down / 1 up at the edges of the WAP coverage angle.

Re:canopy vs turango

[PhraudulentOne]

Sounds impressive, could you provide a link to the 'Turango' product? I used google but came up with nothing relevant. Thanks!

Re:canopy vs turango

[Hubert_Shrump]

borked the spelling, sorry.

spelled trango, it's not as impossible to find.

Try Alvarion VL

[texchanchan]

Y'all should look into Alvarion's 5.8 MHz NLOS system. Bounces right over hills using OFDM, which in itself is a very cool new radio technology. If you're in mountainous country it might be just the thing. You can read about it at the Alvarion site or the Alvarion-USA site.

Take a lesson from Storm.ca

[CertGen]

My parents bought a Storm line-of-site system up in the Ottawa Valley area and it's been nothing but trouble. They were having sporadic access with their dish and the help-desk personnel told them to turn off their 802.11b router because the dish was randomly selecting the same channel ID as their router and it was 'confusing' their dish.

My advice to you: get in touch with the Storm.ca people. Find out what they use. And avoid it. IRC

WAND

[judd]

Talk to these guys.

The first link (13.4km in length at a nominal bandwidth of 11Mbps) has been operational since December 2001. Since this time we have installed a further 8 links ranging from 2.5km to 17km in length.

Here too

[macdaddy]

I contract with a local ISP that also covers teeny tiny towns, including the one I live in with a whooping 231 people (whoot!). This ISP happens to have a slight advantage over other ISPs (which is probably why there are NO other ISPs in the area). They are the phone company. They are also the cable TV company. They don't incur per-call costs when dumping outbound calls to the RAS onto a fiber trunk to another town. They cover around 15 towns here in Kansas and 3-4 in Nebraska. Now you'd think they'd only offer dialup for an asinine price. Well they do offer dialup and the price could be a little lower. They also offer DSL and cable. They have run long range DSL to a couple houses over 5 miles from the CO via fiber drops to their front door. They are using long range Ethernet in this particular town to reach houses too far from town and the CO for DSL. This small phone company does it all.

I've been chatting with the powers that be in meetings recently about offering wireless for the rural customers. It could be a lot cheaper for than then long range Ethernet, world's cheaper than DSL even across the alley from the CO (AFC equipment is ungodly expensive per port), and even a little cheaper than cable. Cable TV isn't offered in the country so cable internet access also isn't available. They'd use that if they could though since it's so much cheaper than DSL to run. Wireless would be an excellent all around solution though. Even using 802.11g with a couple omni-directional antennas would suffice for the most part.

Keep us informed on what you ultimately do cause I know at least some of us are really interested.

Re:Here too

[PhraudulentOne]

Hey macdaddy, we are also the telco for our area and right now we run AFC/Copper Mountain equipment for the DSLAMs. I agree, they are pricey, but Copper Mountain is mad cheap compared to AFC. We are also a cooperative company, so we will probably just supply the subscriber units free of charge to our customers instead of making them pay a huge fee up front. We thought about doing 802.11b/g for the hotspot idea (which we probably will do), but we are looking at a fixed-wireless system that will do several miles for the rest of the coverage. The hotspot will probably be supplied by ADCs Loopstar system, which you should definately check out. Right now Motorola's Canopy has our attention because of the way they package their service. You do not need to pay for service contracts, their startup costs are not too high, the antennas they use are TINY compared to other products that I have looked at thus far, the range/bandwidth is pretty decent (which will be doubled in the spring) for what we need and the dealers we have been speaking with have awesome customer service. So far they are definately in the lead. Other companies I have been comparing are WaveRider, Airspan and a few others. I am going through the comments on this forum because I have heard some recommendations for companies that I have not heard of before. I will post an update when we get closer to our decision but right now its all about Motorola.

Re:Our experience providing wireless Internet serv

[macdaddy]

This would work great for us. Almost all of the towns in our area (teeny tiny mind you, -1000) are either a) flat as a board, b) slope slightly downhill towards the tracks, or c) have a tall water tower and/or a tall grain elevator that's many times higher than any other point in town. This would be a perfect setup IMHO.

How well do the client side of things work? Is it platform independant (ie, does a small wireless modem handles all things wireless and connects to the internal network via Ethernet?)? Mac, Linux, Solaris, PC support?

How do weather conditions affect your setup? The DFW area has a fair amount of humidity (although not nearly as bad as futher south in Texas I'm sure). I've noticed my own wireless networks being noticeably slower during 100% humidity days with extremely high heat. Any trouble there?

When you say $500 SU, you're saying it's $500 per customer, right? Ouch. That's as bad as our AFC equipment and consumer DSL router purchase. That's painful. It would be worth it to the rural customers I'm sure. It won't make a decent replacement for our customers within range of cable/dsl though (see my previous post for a description of our circumstances). Anyhow, thanks for the insight.

Keyon

[La Camiseta]

Keyon here in the Vegas valley just backpacks onto Cell towers with their high-gain 802.11b antennas. Plus they have some semi-proprietary technology/software that they use to be able to provide up to/over 1.5 down and up to something like 512 up (too lazy to check right now). Anyways, their service is great, and I haven't heard of any real problems with them.

900mhz equip

[ophix]

from about 905 to 925MHz in the US is unlicensed. A company i used to work for was a WISP who used some 900mhz equipment from a company called waverider. Its pretty good about NLOS but it does have bandwidth limitations being in the 900MHz band and all. Support with the company is pretty good provided you get the number for one of the tech guys who doesnt speak poor english (the other guy is helpful, but i have a hard time understanding him sometimes). the biggest thing with any wireless solution is antennas and cable selection. any solution will be crap if the antennas are crap. when it comes to cable, the shorter and fatter the better. dont skimp on the cable.

Re:Our experience providing wireless Internet serv

[PhraudulentOne]

You don't really have to worry about weather if you go with 900MHz solutions. If you have a small area like the one you are describing, you could probably get away with an NLOS (Non line of sight) solution. This means LOWER cost for your SUs. No outdoor equipment that has to handle the elements, and less installation cost/time - this means faster ROI (Return On Investment). You might be able to have your customers sign a 12 month contract and supply them the SU equipment for free, or for a reduced rate. If they are happy with the service they will probably stick around.

Remember... the lower the frequency, the better penetration rate. 900MHz will go through objects a LOT better than 5.8Ghz will. 5.8Ghz will start to do poorly in an area that is heavily saturated with moisture - hence tree leaves etc killing the signal. 900Mhz will go right through them (unless they are a certain type of pine tree, then 900Mhz dies right away).

How it's done in SE Asia...

[daimonic]

Over in SE Asia where little or no infrastructure exists there are several Internet providers who are using Wireless to provide access to customers. I know my ISP (http://www.laopdr.com/) is using Wireless to provide access to the National University of the Lao PDR (http://nuol.edu.la/) I've been told by the techies they manage to get a good enough 8mb/s over a distance of around 10klms which is non LOS. I'm guessing it was 802.11 with a directional antennae. (check with the techies for more info) I've dropped you an email with the techies contact email address. Sometimes developing nations are an interesting case study because due to lack of infrastructure they have to use sometimes experimental ways to cover the distance. I also saw an article where an US University was using VHF to transmit data and got something like 50 miles out of it. Not sure of the URL. (try googling "Wireless" +University +USA or similar). Daimon