Cool New Ideas to Save Brains

An anonymous reader writes "An estimated 700,000 Americans suffer strokes each year. Researchers are looking for ways to cool the head of a stroke victim while keeping the rest of the body at normal temperature; they've developed a nifty cool helmet to accomplish this. Cooling the brain essentially puts the brain in 'pause' mode, giving doctors time before damage from oxygen starvation occurs. This is similar to the way in which near-drowning victims do much better if they are in freezing water rather than in warmer water."

Comments

All that....

[p4ul13]

All that life saving goodness AND style as well. Way to go!!

Looks like...

[mbstone]

It's just a water-cooled tinfoil hat.

Igor

[AtariAmarok]

At last, another job for Igor:

"what do you want me to do, Master"

"Find brains, and save them. There is a large quantity of pickle jars in the room off the laboratory".

Re:Igor

[pipingguy]

"Find brains, and save them. There is a large quantity of pickle jars in the room off the laboratory".

Dr. Friedrich von Frankenstein: Igor, would you mind telling me whose brain I did put in?
Igor: And you won't be angry?
Dr. Friedrich von Frankenstein: I will NOT be angry.
Igor: Abby someone.
Dr. Friedrich von Frankenstein: Abby someone. Abby who?
Igor: Abby Normal.
Dr. Friedrich von Frankenstein: Abby Normal?
Igor: I'm almost sure that was the name.
Dr. Friedrich von Frankenstein: Do you mean to tell me that I put an abnormal brain into an, 8 foot tall, 300 pound, GORILLA?!!!

Re:Igor

[dustmote]

Igor: "On'tday Asay Ottenray"

Monster: GROAN

But...

[El]

doesn't this give the victim a serious "ice cream headache"?

Re: But...

[BWJones]

So, I have been attending vicariously via conversations with friends and family that are at the meeting in San Diego. It turns out that yes, indeed one gets a royally painful headache when wearing these things, but when given the alternative......

Actually, TPA treatment is dramatically effective if given within the time window of effectiveness, but as the article alluded to there are other issues with treatment of stroke via TPA, specifically one has to ensure that the stroke is an embolic stroke (meaning a blocking off of blood flow) as opposed to a hemorrhagic stroke (meaning a leak in blood vessels of the brain) as TPA can worsen a stroke that is hemorrhagic in nature. So, careful diagnosis becomes critical. Additionally, TPA administration itself can be a little tricky and can cause a fair risk of damage, but again the alternative.....

Re: But...

[photonX]

Right. If I recall correctly, the time window is two to three hours from initial onset, and the differential diagnosis is indeed critical before administring tPA, which is why if you've had a brain attack you hope that your local hospital has enought CT scanner capacity (that is, hardware *and* qualified staff) to get you scanned fast. Something to mention the next time you hear someone fretting about the high cost of health care.

As far as headaches go, well, right again, if you don't already have a killer headache from the stroke itself, you don't give a damn about getting one from a cold helmet if it will prevent brain damage.

Next time I get a headache, I think I'll stick my head in the freezer just in case. ;-)

brain freeze

[yetanothertechie]

Couldn't they accomplish the same thing just by having the patient dring a cold drink really fast?

I know this is a serious subject, but I couldn't resist ;-)

top 10 existing ways to save brains

[AtariAmarok]

10. Pinky will figure something out.
9. pkzip -a cerefilum.zip *brain*.*
8. "The tribe has spoken.." [CLICK!]
7. Saran wrap.
6. Solve the Poincare Conjecture. Nahhh, no one will ever do that
5. Tinfoil helmets. They're cheap, and I don't know a single person wearing one who received control messages from the Bildeburgers.
4. Serve brains?. Oh, sorry, misunderstood.
3. Tweak the DMCA to make it an instant capital offense to write or read fanfic of any kind.
2. "Turn that radio away from Rush Limbaugh!"
1. Buy all the syndication rights for "Gilligans Island" and sit on them.

Cool blood vs body

[mind21_98]

Wow, this is just cool. I can't wait till they're in widespread use; this will help immensely to prevent brain damage from strokes. :)

yeah, but how well will it really work?

[InsomniacsDream]

Considering that the blood is circulating through the brain multiple times per minute carrying warmer fluid from elsewhere in the body, and that the heat
would have to be removed through the skull (not sure what the thermal conductivity of bone tissue is), it makes me wonder how effective this would really be at cooling the interior regions of the brain without cooling the other parts of the body as well. I would suspect it would only be marginally useful at cooling just the outer portions, and even that would be countered by the warmer blood flowing through it. I'm sure it sounds real good in their brochure.

Re:yeah, but how well will it really work?

[chia_monkey]

There are a few scenarios we can look at that may help explain why this works. First, when it's winter time and you go outside without a hat, your entire body seems a lot colder than it would be if you had a hat on. The head can be quite a source of heat loss. Have you ever seen a thermo map of the human body? A lot of heat escaping the head...hence one would figure it has less isulation than the rest of the body and thus you could chill the brain that way. Also...the rest of the body (generally...less the hands and feet, etc) have fat and muscle insulation.

Think about hibernating animals also. Again, they pack on the fat and such before taking their winter nap. They have the more insulating fur around their bodies. They slumber. Their brain chills and allows them to pretty much cease all functions for months on end.

These are just a couple reasons I can think of. If I'm incorrect, please let me know so I don't continue through life sounding like an idiot. If I'm right, let me know too. ;)

prior art

[Glog]

There is prior art for this: the bondage beast from "Pulp Fiction".

Head cooling

[Pentagram]

I suppose I should make some joke about overclocking but frankly it seems like too much work.

Oh, while they're still "in situ"

[RobertB-DC]

Sorry, but my first thought was the solution pioneered by Dr. Michael Hfuhruhurr in this 1983 documentary. Of course, it doesn't work as well without the unique preservative solution devised by evil genius Dr. Alfred Necessiter.

"You.. You cooked her nines!... OUT! Out of my HOUSE! Out of my LIFE!"
-- Steve Martin, "The Man With Two Brains"

Uh huh

[NanoGator]

Suddenly, Nixon's head attacking Fry crosses the line from mildly amusing to holy shit that could really happen!

Prior Art?

[weeboo0104]

looking for ways to cool the head of a stroke victim while keeping the rest of the body at normal temperature;

You mean with an ice pack?

Injecting cool liquids?

[BladeMelbourne]

Just a few days ago, the television stations in Melbourne were broadcasting stories about ambulance officers injecting stoke victims with cooled liquids to limit brain damage.

I think a study is about to get underway - extent of brain damage and recovery times will be compared to those who have not been injected with cooled liquids.

Of course, ambulance response times need to be faster, otherwise the damage would already be done.

Try this

[spineboy]

Hold your hand in ice water for ten minutes and tell me if it's colder.

I bet it is

Re:Try this

[KitFox]

At the same time, the amount of blood flowing through your hand, as opposed to the amount of blood flowing through your head, is substantially lower. So, your hand in ice water will chill more easily, since it has no outer bone casing, and less of an incoming source of heat, whereas your head has substantially more blood flowing to it, and, as he pointed out, a skull around the brain.

Another thing to consider... Hold your hand only in ice water, and see if your arm doesn't become cold. As the original poster pointed out, the blood flowing out will be quite cold, and thus cool the rest of the body.

And a final concen not mentioned, is the fact that the body's thermostat is up in the brain. When somebody is suffering from heat stroke, putting ice on the back of their neck will make them FEEL cooler all over, and actually worsen the situation, since it chills the brain and causes it to think "My body is cold! Must increase heat production!"

Overall, if it was JUST the brain, no problem. But since the body is an integrated system, I wonder if this is really a proper approach.

Re:Try this

[InsomniacsDream]

Not to mention, your nerves are right beneath the skin, so _feeling_ cold just means your skin temperature has dropped, not your internal body temperature. And the point is that even if your hand were colder, the blood flowing through your hand would also be chilled, and as it passes through the rest of your body, it would also chill your entire body to some extent.

Electroencegraphs

[MonkeysKickAss]

Doctors should use electroencegraphs more often to check for hemorages in the brain earlier and then they can find ways to prevent strokes. My very close friend had died due to a stroke and I wish that could have been prevented becuase losing someone is one of the most painful experieces on can go through.

Prior art.

[E_elven]

Sergeant Detritus, your helmet?

Re:Prior art.

[Bagels]

For the clueless - Detritus is a zombie enlisted in the Watch of the city of Ankh-Morpork in Terry Pratchett's Discworld series of books. Presumably the helmet would be used to keep his already dead brain from decaying further.

Re:Prior art.

[RexxFiend]

sheesh. -5, just plain wrong.

detritus is a troll who discovered that his brain works better if it is supercooled cos trolls live in the mountains where it is really cold and become really stupid in the city cos their heads get too warm which slows down their brain functions. The zombie is called Reg Shoe.

Clueless indeed.

Re:Prior art.

[E_elven]

For the reasoning of the cooling down ->smarting up, it's because trolls are made of rock -like silicon..

Re:Prior art.

[R_Harrold]

Detritus is a Troll, not a zombie. The helmet was used to keep his brain cool which due to the increased processing speed this made possible made him more intellegent. Robert H

Almost certainly

[bill_mcgonigle]

When I got my SCUBA certification, we had to break some ice to get into the water. I think it ran from 38-42 F depending on how deep we went in the middle of the lake.

I had a hood on, but five minutes in that kind of water and the hood isn't so good. You get an awful ice-cream headache. Then you get so numb you can barely feel your face. Then your regulator freezes up. (then you practice your emergency decompression ascent)

So yeah, external cold source to the head gives a bad headache, but not for too long.

Re:Almost certainly

[BWJones]

If you are going to be diving in colder waters, ScubaPro and others make insulated first stage regulator systems that really do work at preventing icing.

Re:Almost certainly

[AJWM]

You need the wonderful goop known as Cold Guard (that and a hood that comes down closer to your mask). I don't know if the stuff is still around, it was a bluish cream with a nightmare list of chemical ingredients, but it helped insulate your skin against the water. (Or maybe it was a chemical reaction causing actual heat -- kidding.)

Back when I was an active diver I did quite a few ice dives -- for several years in a row we did a ceremonial ice dive at midnight on New Years, I forget how that started. On those we mostly played on the ice undersurface (stand upside down and watch your bubbles go 'down' -- wierd). I've actually been colder on open water dives, like down around 100' in the Gulf of St. Lawrence (on the Empress of Ireland) with my suit compressed and a current flowing. At least my regulator didn't freeze up.

(And actually, the times I have had it freeze up it's been in freeflow, so no worries about breathing as long as the tank lasted.)

Re:Almost certainly

[bill_mcgonigle]

Thanks - I'll save the link.

I'm sure I'll get back to it someday, but for now I've got PTSD about it and stick to bath-temperature reef diving. Unfortunately, I don't get south very often so that puts a cramp on my dive hours. :(

Re:Almost certainly

[bill_mcgonigle]

You need the wonderful goop known as Cold Guard (that and a hood that comes down closer to your mask). I don't know if the stuff is still around, it was a bluish cream with a nightmare list of chemical ingredients, but it helped insulate your skin against the water. (Or maybe it was a chemical reaction causing actual heat -- kidding.)

Going by hits on Google it doesn't seem to be around anymore. I've seen English channel swimmers goop up with some kind of grease to keep them warm.

I'm not quite brave enough yet to go down under ice that's too thick to smash. Some day I'd like to get drysuit qualified.

Re:Almost certainly

[AJWM]

I'm not quite brave enough yet to go down under ice that's too thick to smash.

Well, no question that you need to be well organized for an ice dive: tenders, safety ropes, standby safety divers (with longer ropes), etc. Rather embarassing (to say the least!) if you can't find your way back to the hole. Although, in all the ice dives I was ever involved in (my club did quite a few -- Canadian winters ;-) only one person ever came off his rope, and the standby divers got to him pretty quickly. (Basic rules -- ascend to the ice and stay put. The safety divers go out on ropes 50% longer than yours was and sweep in a circle, sooner or later a rope will come by. And always use rope that floats! (Polypropylene, I think.))

As for the temperature -- well, as long as it isn't ice, water can only get so cold. A drysuit helps, yes, but I've done ice dives in a wetsuit. (Full, farmer John style, with hood, booties and mitts, of course).

Save your brain

[pontifier]

My medical neck tag from Alcor says:

Front:
Call 24 hours ###-###-####
In case of death see reverse for Biostasis Protocol
Reward #####

Back:
Call now for instructions
Push 50,000 U Heparin by IV and do CPR while cooling with ice to 10C -Keep PH 7.5
NO Embalming
NO Autopsy

Also useful for hypoxia in infants

[overworked underpaid]

There is currently research in cooling to prevent brain damage in infants that suffer hypoxia (oxygen starvation) during birth. Hypoxia occurs when the baby does not get an adequate oxygen supply to the brain during labour, which is usually as a result of fetal distress or pinching of the umbilical cord. Usually, an infant in intensive care is put under lights to keep body temperature up, but in one study (Infant Cooling Evaluation at the Royal Womens Hospital in Melbourne, Australia) infants are cooled simply by turning the lights off. There is not sufficient data to report results of this study at present, but resutls in animals have been very promising.

About /dev/brain

[Anonymous Coward]

> 9. pkzip -a cerefilum.zip *brain*.*

9. root# dd if=/dev/brain of=brain.img

Note you will need root permissions to read the brain.

Liquid breathing

[Mxyzptlk]

A similar technique has been used for cooling the whole body of a patient. This is done by letting the patient breathe a oxygen saturated liquid such as LiquiVent. Normally, when you apply liquid breathing, you pre-heat the liquid to body temperature, but in this case you could use a lower temperature. The total area of the lung alveoli is about 100 square meters. Compared to the area of the head (as used in the helmet approach), the area available for heat transfer is many times greater, which means that the cooling is done much faster.

Of course this technique is not useful in an ambulance, due to the fact that you have to apply local anasthetics to the lung in order to prevent the cough reflex when the liquid enters the lung/lungs. Also, you have to put the patient in a respirator, because breathing liquid is so taxing on the diaphragm muscles, that all your energy is spent on breathing - you can't do anything else.

Russian heart surgery

[Noco]

It seems that I saw a science show about heart surgeons in USSR/Russia (I don't remember how old this was)who used this idea to perform open heart surgeries.

With the decline of the USSR, hospitals often went underfunded without complex heart/lung machines. Yet it is necessary to stop the heart during open heart surgeries. As a solution, doctors chill the person's body, packing the head in ice, and removing the blood replacing it with some chilled liquid. Then they have an hour after stopping the heart. Once finished, the slowly warm the person and apply a shock to restart the heart.

The detials might be wrong. It also seems like similar procedures are sometimes done in the States as well.

hydergine also reputedly prolongs brain life

[bgins]

In emergencies, European doctors inject hydergine directly into the carotid artery to protect the brain. Hydergine's mechanisms of actions include the reduction in the rate of lipofuscin deposition in brain cells, increased metabolism of brain cells by improving ATP synthesis and protection to the brain from free radical damage. [1]

Hydergine(tm) [2] reputedly also prolongs brain life in oxygen-starved conditions, according to the c. 1980 book "Life Extension: A Practical Scientific Approach" by research Drs. Durk Pearson & Sandy Shaw; but apparently also has some risks or lacks (FDA-)sufficient testing for this use, so most U.S. doctors at least don't seem to know about it in this capacity [3,4] (anyone have any info about it being used in emergency rooms in the U.S. or Canada?). They wrote then that it was over-the-counter in Europe, but that seems to no longer be true [5]. I have never taken it, but you might think twice [6] before trying it as a nootropic [7], despite their apparent wealth of knowledge [1] and its league of enthusiasts [8,9]. I am not a doctor, but all of this leads me to wonder: has Hydergine been overlooked? And if so, why? (Because of scientists' perennial fears of ruin for appearing over-zealous??)

Notes:
1
2 *formerly known as Sandoz
3
4
5
6
7
8
9 (google cache)

Keeping the body cool

[Anonymous Coward]

A few months back, a relative of mine suddenly had the symptoms of stroke (sudden speech impairment, numbness on the right side of his body etc...). We called a cab (the airconditioning in the vehicle is set so low that we are almost freezing) to take him to the hospital. On the way there, he seems to have recovered. After we alighted from the cab and stepped into the hospital, he still seems fine. By the way, the airconditioning at the hospital is also set really low.

During our consultation with the doctor, we asked the doctor about the effects of cold (low temperature) on stroke victims.However, the doctors there have absolutely no idea. By the way, I had forgotten to mention that this hospital specialises in stroke and heart ailments.

I wonder how knowledgeable doctors are about stroke in your areas ?

Migraine use?

[SolemnDragon]

I'm prone to migraines.

One thing that i can tell you about migraines is that, while individual results vary, almost anything that has an effect on blood pressure and blood flow can change a migraine for somebody. For many patient, an ice pack on the head and one on the back of the neck is the best way to start easing the pain.

I read this story and thought, this could be a treatment for otherwise debilitating migraines, especially for those people who have real trouble with triptan medications.

Don't know about y'all, but i'll be watching closely when they start using this for things like that. The milder extra pain caused by the cold is worth it compared to the ice pick throbbing of a migraine- it's even a relief, if you can get it 'instead' rather than 'as well...'