FreeBSD 5.3-BETA6 Available

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Posted by michael on Monday September 27, 2004 @06:47AM from the not-quite-done dept.

ulib writes "The FreeBSD 5.3 testing cycle goes on with a brand new BETA Release. Eager for the Final? Then try this Beta out (mirrors) and help them find/fix bugs! Here are the announcement (check it for fixes, enhancements & known issues), the schedule (could be updated soon), and the todo list."

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ULE scheduler? by nacturation · 2004-09-27 07:00 · Score: 4, Informative

The open issues page shows the SCHED_ULE as "needs testing" for the 5.3 release -- the last release still used the old 4BSD scheduler. Have the issues with preemption been ironed out?

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1. Re:ULE scheduler? by endx7 · 2004-09-27 08:11 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  The open issues page shows the SCHED_ULE as "needs testing" for the 5.3 release -- the last release still used the old 4BSD scheduler. Have the issues with preemption been ironed out?
  Work has been done to make it more stable, but SCHED_ULE (especially with preemption) still isn't stable enough, so SCHED_4BSD will be default in 5.3
2. Re:ULE scheduler? by molnarcs · 2004-09-27 10:09 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  The funny thing is that one of the reasons for switching back to 4BSD was problems with preemption. I tried options PREEMPTION with 5.3BETA3 and BETA5 _with SCHED_4BSD, and had exactly the same problems as with ULE (and preemption).
  I've been using ULE since last year december (5.1) and I never had any problems with it. In fact, it performs much better, especially on the desktop (interactivity remains better while building in the background for instance). I will continue to use it for this reasons, despite not being the default.
3. Re:ULE scheduler? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-27 12:27 · Score: 0
  
  SCHED_ULE hasn't been around all that long. It wasn't even default in -current until 3 or 4 months ago.
4. Re:ULE scheduler? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-27 20:05 · Score: 0
  
  It has been around for at least 2 years, and has been the default in current for over 8 months. That is a *damn* long time for something to be so horribly broken. Even 3 months is a long time, development kernel or no.
Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by museumpeace · 2004-09-27 07:22 · Score: 5, Interesting

I bought a cheap [e-mahcine] 2.4gHz box with the intention of just reformating XP to oblivion and loading up a Linux...but now here is BSD. Hmmm the install instructions at the BSD site look detailed. Last time I tried this was with RH 6.something, I was using an even cheaper machine with an oddball graphics card...never did get X windows or any thing but command line mode [which would have served my purposes]. I guess what I really want before wiping windows off my box is a throrough HW compatibility list...one size DOES NOT fit all PC's.

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1. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by beholder77 · 2004-09-27 07:40 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  You could try to load up the first install disc, or even better the miniinst disc if you don't want to waste bandwidth, and see during the boot messages if all the hardware in your box is probed.
  
  Don't worry if it can't find your sound card though, install kernels don't have multimedia features.
  
  However, as a hard core BSD user, I would say if you're looking for a desktop replacement, you may not find the joy here. First, getting BSD up and running as a desktop requires a bit of work and a certain comfort level working with the command line.
  
  Being Bi-OS-ual (I swing Linux and BSD where necessary ;), I would recommend either Knoppix 2.6 or Fedora Core 2 as a better starter unix. With these, you won't be dropped to a prompt after a fairly mimimalist install to fend for yourself. You'll also get a chance to run a ton of pre-configured desktop applications, so when you finally do attempt the BSD desktop, you'll know what you want to install beforehand.
  
  If however you're wanting to setup your first server environment, I would recommend FreeBSD over everything else. You will learn unix the proper way, which is at the command line and manually configuring your service config files. (Yes I've used Debian and Gentoo for this in the past, and I still think FreeBSD is better suited).
  
  --
  Success is as dangerous as failure, hope as hollow as fear.
2. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Kurt+Russell · 2004-09-27 07:48 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  The FreeBSD install process is easy. Check here to see if the stuff in your box is listed. I am almost positive that box will work.
3. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Brandybuck · 2004-09-27 08:47 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  what I really want before wiping windows off my box is a throrough HW compatibility list
  
  See the Hardware Notes page. This page is for 5.2.1 because 5.3 is still in beta, but you can get the latest page off of CVS or on the beta ISO.
  
  While this page isn't thorough, it should meet most people's needs. Thoroughness would require a vastly larger document. For example, not every USB flash drive is listed, but 9999 out of the 10,000 available will work with FreeBSD out of the box.
  
  If you have hardware that is not mentioned, then ask about it on a support forum.
  
  --
  Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
4. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by torako · 2004-09-27 08:59 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  FreeBSD can make a pretty good desktop machine. It has a really lean base system and using the ports system you can get all the software you want.
  Once you get your GUI running you won't notice any difference.
  In terms of administration and setup I'd compare FreeBSD with Slackware Linux. You will need to do some config file editing to get stuff done, but FreeBSD has a very well documented and easy-to-understand configuration system (you can basically set all the important system preferences in the /etc/rc.conf file).
  Give it a shot, you just might like it.
5. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by david+duncan+scott · 2004-09-27 09:01 · Score: 1
  
  Was "Knoppix 2.6" a typo, or is there some special virtue to that release lost in later ones?
  
  --
  This next song is very sad. Please clap along. -- Robin Zander
6. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-27 09:03 · Score: 5, Informative
  
  you could also try FreeSBIE http://www.freesbie.org/, a very nice freeBSD live CD. it worked fine on my DELL laptop (except for the wireless card, but that's expected) and on another old DELL PIII desktop I had lying around but of course since your machine is new YMMV.
  
  s.
7. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Moloch666 · 2004-09-27 09:20 · Score: 1
  
  Maybe he meant a Knoppix with a 2.6.x kernel.
  
  Probably would have made more sense to say the latest version of Knoppix.
  
  --
  Understanding is a three-edged sword. -- Kosh Naranek
8. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Korpo · 2004-09-27 09:41 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Yeah, you can get everything with Ports, but you have to compile it! That's a serious investment in time, even with a multi-GHz P4, if you long for a recent - say - KDE? (You sure want _THAT_ or a full Gnome on a desktop machine, in recent versions).
  
  I actually have a pal sitting in the lab next to me, doing Ports compiles and configuring since days because he wants to "truely evaluate" the system (he has a P4 with good horse power and HT).
  
  Accepted: The base system is a perfect match for the kernel, lean and mean, but that won't give you you most stuff considered to be part of a full desktop. And X, Gnome and KDE are not as neatly adapted to FreeBSD as the base system, not by far. Recent versions need to be compiled. You aren't suggesting a base system is enough, aren't you? Command line is fine, but X would be nice. And Slackware isn't a very popular distro by today's standards...
  
  5.x is very performant system that is in its strengths a true match for Linux 2.6.x. It replaced a lot of code though, and as 2.6.x, needs time to mature - it's beta for a reason and not yet fully stable. 4.x is the tried and true proven solution. I bet 4.x and the base system are one of the most stable and reliable foundations for a server out there, but not the most performant and scalable one. 5.x is not stable yet, it still has teething troubles: Even it's new and powerful SCHED_ULE (O(1)-Scheduler) is not fully stable yet. It's a good and commendable design, though (the whole kernel), as always.
  
  A beginner is for sure in for more fun than he expected with the Ports tree. It's a solution that works, but does not really increase usability a lot for BSD beginners.
9. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Bishop · 2004-09-27 09:45 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Install FreeBSD 4.10. It is the current stable version of FreeBSD. 4.10 will give you a good idea of all that FreeBSD has to offer. FreeeBSD 4.10 is not outdated. It was released in May 2004 and includes gnome 2.6 and KDE 3.2.2.
  
  The FreeBSD install is easy provided that you follow the documentation. If you don't have a second computer on which to view the installation guide, print it out.
10. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Brandybuck · 2004-09-27 09:53 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Yeah, you can get everything with Ports, but you have to compile it!
  
  If you don't want to compile ports, then use prebuilt packages! Why is this so hard of a concept to understand?
  
  --
  Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
11. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by molnarcs · 2004-09-27 10:18 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  As he ^ said. FreeBSD has package management similar to Debian's apt. Packages might be somewhat outdated compared to ports (but they are built from ports! once in a month if I know correctly).
  apt-get install postfix = pkg_add -r postfix
  or if you have portupgrade installed:
  portinstall -PP postfix
  But that's not all! You can combine the two:
  portinstall -P postfix
  will try to install the latest version from packages, but if it can't find it it will build the port! FreeBSD's port/package management is one (if not THE) best I ever seen.
12. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-27 11:37 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  5.x is very performant system that is in its strengths a true match for Linux 2.6.x.
  
  What makes you think that? In single threaded performance, Linux 2.6 is faster than Linux 2.4, which is faster than FreeBSD 4, which is faster than FreeBSD 5.
  
  In SMP scalability, the last test I saw between FreeBSD 5 and Linux 2.6 had FreeBSD unable to scale MySQL to 2 Opteron CPUs (which is an inherently very scalable architecture). Linux scaled linearly.
  
  So, can you share your facts?
13. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by beholder77 · 2004-09-27 12:27 · Score: 1
  
  Yes, I decided to take a zero on the idiot test today :)
  
  2.6 is a kernel version, 3.6 is the Knoppix version.
  
  --
  Success is as dangerous as failure, hope as hollow as fear.
14. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by ValourX · 2004-09-27 13:25 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I would say that OpenBSD is a better starter server; it's easier to secure and the afterboot man page tells you pretty much everything you have to know to get started with a variety of different services. The man pages in OpenBSD are just outstanding, and the quality of the code is unmatched.
  
  If only it had the desktop apps I need, I'd use it as a desktop machine. As it is, I have it on my laptop so I can learn to do more through the CLI (email, IRC, learning vi, maybe get into C programming).
  
  And this is coming from someone who uses FreeBSD as his main workstation OS.
  
  -Jem
15. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Korpo · 2004-09-27 19:43 · Score: 1
  
  Um, because _not_ _all_ ports have packages?
  
  Besides, there are broken ports...
16. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by drmerope · 2004-09-27 19:48 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Not to mention that this upcoming release will have ndis support enabled by default... which should allow you to use a binary windows driver to get your card up and running.
17. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by R.Caley · 2004-09-27 19:54 · Score: 1
  
  but you have to compile it! That's a serious investment in time, even with a multi-GHz P4, if you long for a recent - say - KDE?
  But it's not your time, it's your computer's time. So in reality it is a small investment of electricity. Unless you have a fast connection you are only trading download time for compile time.
  You could, of course, download precompiled packages. The only difference really is that FBSD documents build from source as the default.
  Command line is fine, but X would be nice.
  X comes with the instalation (though it is an option because you may be installing on a firewall or something).
  
  --
  _O_ .|< The named which can be named is not the true named
18. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Orlando · 2004-09-27 20:02 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  First, getting BSD up and running as a desktop requires a bit of work and a certain comfort level working with the command line.
  
  The instant workstation meta-port may take some of the pain (fun :) out of the experience :
  
  http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/h andbook/desktop-summary.html
  
  --
  -= This is a self-referential sig =-
19. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-27 20:16 · Score: 0
  
  apt-get source -b postfix
  
  apt/.deb packpage management is the best I ever seen [sic].
20. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Korpo · 2004-09-27 23:34 · Score: 0, Offtopic
  
  I didn't say X doesn't come with FreeBSD. I said: It's not part of the base system. So all the attributes you would associate with the base system are simply not implied for other software coming with FreeBSD, like X. The base system is tightly integrated, granted. But X and the whole desktop stuff is not.
21. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by R.Caley · 2004-09-28 00:24 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I didn't say X doesn't come with FreeBSD. I said: It's not part of the base system.
  This is rather theological from the POV of a normal user. X is shipped with the system, is installed as part of the normal instalation (if you like), is declared in /etc/mtree/, it's in /usr, not /usr/local and so on.
  That it isn't part of the base system is interesting for developers, but from the POV of a user you'd be hard pushed to notice any difference in status between X and, say, OpenSSH.
  
  --
  _O_ .|< The named which can be named is not the true named
22. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by DashEvil · 2004-09-28 03:49 · Score: 1
  
  But the majority of them do -- including KDE and GNOME.
  
  --
  -If God wanted people to be better than me, he would have made them that way.
23. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Kogase · 2004-09-28 04:56 · Score: 1
  
  In my experience prebuilt packages tend to be out of date.
24. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Brandybuck · 2004-09-28 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  Not any more so than the distro-supplied packages for many popular distros. Is it really that big of an inconvenience to wait a week or so for the package bots to get around to your favorite app?
  
  --
  Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
25. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Kogase · 2004-09-28 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  When I used 5.1, it seems as though prebuilt packages weren't updated till 5.2 was released...
26. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by chrysalis · 2004-09-28 07:18 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  KDE 3.2.2 *is* outdated. We're at 3.3, you know?
  
  --
  {{.sig}}
27. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by lewp · 2004-09-28 14:30 · Score: 1
  
  It's a troll because it's true?
  
  --
  Game... blouses.
28. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by kace · 2004-09-29 01:25 · Score: 1
  
  ... since Slackware has the best open source GUI around there's absolutely no point in using BSD on the desktop [modded down] ...
  
  It's a troll because it's true?
  
  It's a troll because it's a non sequitur.
  
  K.C.
29. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 04:45 · Score: 0
  
  You're right, the quality of openbsd code is unmatched. The rest of the BSDs are faster and more stable.
  
  OpenBSD has done some nice things, but at this point they've essentially relegated themselves to being a firewall and security research operating system.
30. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 07:29 · Score: 0
  
  It's very simple. FreeBSD 5.3 is a total failure. If you want to look at a working BSD system, look at DragonFlyBSD or NetBSD.
  
  Darling Smograv
31. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by torstenvl · 2004-09-29 13:40 · Score: 1
  
  You're probably using it incorrectly. Remember to set the PACKAGESITE variable to ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/ports/i386/packa ges-4-stable/Latest/
  or whatever you want your directory to be. The default is the directory of your release... which would be why it didn't seem to updated until the next release...
32. Re:Am I ready to take the BSD plunge? by softweyr · 2004-10-01 16:04 · Score: 1
  
  I bought a cheap [e-mahcine] 2.4gHz box
  A couple of years ago I bought a cheap "MicroTel" machine from WalMart to use as a crash-test dummy. When I was done I gave it to my sister who is still using it with some variant of Winders. WalMart.com has a 1.6 GHz Duron machine with WinXP for $298, if you're looking for cheap. That's only about $120 more than the full-up fee for WinXP, in case you want that. *shudder*
4.x series by nurb432 · 2004-09-27 12:34 · Score: 4, Informative

Since you are new to FBSD, dont try the 5.x series just yet.. Its not 100% done, yet.. almost..but not quite..

Stick with the 4.x ( stable, released ) series for the moment, if you are going to try it TODAY.. so you dont get left with a bad impression by starting out with a TESTING version.....

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
1. Re:4.x series by tk2x · 2004-09-28 19:42 · Score: 1
  
  I highly disagree. There are many, many changes with the 5-series. I run both 4-stable and 5-stable as servers and have been using FreeBSD since 1993 (pre-1.0). If you are just getting into FreeBSD, there is absolutely no reason to go with 4 -- you'll just have to learn those changes when you migrate to 5, and 5 has many new and great features. Why bother learning something that is at the end of its lifecycle? Just wait for 5.3 -- it is plenty "stable" enough for new users.
Re:Release engineering? by the+real+darkskye · 2004-09-27 12:36 · Score: 1

You would have a valid point if this was a release candidate, but its not its a BETA, its not even claiming to be of release quality.

IHBT, IWHAND

--
Music is everybody's possession.
It's only publishers who think that people own it.
Fuck Beta
~John Lenno
OT: Vmware X.org by nurb432 · 2004-09-27 12:50 · Score: 1

This is a bit OT, but is there a trick to getting the X.org server working under vmware?

Ive tried the last 2 betas, and if you try to do a 'detect/configure' it hoses the virtual system...

It may work on real hardweare, but im not ready to blow away a real box, just for testing..

--
---- Booth was a patriot ----
1. Re:OT: Vmware X.org by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-27 17:12 · Score: 0
  
  sounds like a bug in vmware or Xorg in regard to the emulated gfx device... when I have tried it under recent betas it worked fine...
2. Re:OT: Vmware X.org by nurb432 · 2004-09-28 03:14 · Score: 1
  
  This is via GSX 3 server.. Perhaps its just that flavor of vmware that has troubles.
  
  Still blows me testing on anything other then real hardware thou.. i dont think bochs is up to the task due to speed.
  
  --
  ---- Booth was a patriot ----
Re:Release engineering? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-27 20:09 · Score: 0

A beta is a call for wider testing. Releasing a beta with *KNOWN* data corruption bugs is crazy regardless that testers are (should be) well aware that there may be *unknown* data corruption bugs.

It is alpha quality at best.
/. is great for plungers by museumpeace · 2004-09-28 01:41 · Score: 4, Interesting

/. posters:
Thanks for all the information for a newbie taking the BSD plunge. This is /. at its best: a lot of people who know what they are talking about and willing to pass on what they know.
BTW, entirely by accident, I found an HP site where you can try out BSD. They are running FreeBSD 5.2.1. You sign up for an account and get to play on their machine. HP puts up the service as a way to show off its high performance systems [alpha's, 64-bit itaniums and other cool tools headed for obsolescence:( ]. I wonder if HP's choice of BSD as one of the OS's for testdriving their hottest boxes implys that they think BSD is less likely to get in the way of demanding computations than some other OS's we shant name.

Comment ends, sig begins :

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SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
One /. article for every beta? by chrysalis · 2004-09-28 06:50 · Score: 2, Insightful

Is there really a need to announce *every* beta version of the development branch of FreeBSD?

If you need to follow what's going on in the CVS tree, there are mailing-lists for that.

--
{{.sig}}
1. Re:One /. article for every beta? by CoolGopher · 2004-09-28 19:13 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Okay, I'll bite.
  
  I think it's really good that FreeBSD is getting this amount of attention - the plunge from FreeBSD 4 to 5 is *huge*, and hence needs lots of testing to ensure we don't have a repeat of the 3->4 saga (if you weren't around back then, there were numerous issues in the early FBSD4.x releases, and the jump from 3 to 4 wasn't as big as it is from 4 to 5).
  
  If you dislike seeing the BSD posts, don't worry, BETA6 is the last scheduled beta (though there will be RC1 shortly).
  
  Also somebody mentioned that *BSD is dead... :-P
2. Re:One /. article for every beta? by ulib · 2004-09-28 21:29 · Score: 1
  
  FreeBSD 5.3-STABLE is an eagerly awaited release in the BSD world (and in the OS world as well, I dare say. Here's why). Posting a concise message every time a new Beta (or RC) is out is, IMHO, the proper way to let /. BSD readers know that it's out there, and you can play with it, or (better) test it, or (sooo much better) help the developers fix the bugs. I really fail to see how this can be bothersome. After all, I guess it's in the interest of every reader of /. BSD section that this important release be as good as possible.
3. Re:One /. article for every beta? by DashEvil · 2004-09-29 07:28 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Hey, Gopher boy.
  
  Check the schedule again. :) There will be a BETA7.
  
  --
  -If God wanted people to be better than me, he would have made them that way.
4. Re:One /. article for every beta? by softweyr · 2004-09-29 16:28 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Is there really a need to announce *every* beta version of the development branch of FreeBSD?
  Yes, and we're going to do at least 27 more just to irritate you.
5. Re:One /. article for every beta? by torstenvl · 2004-09-29 16:50 · Score: 1
  
  That makes me feel a lot better. Matt himself says that 4.x is freakin' awesome. I was kind of buying into the "5.x sucks ass" stuff. But if history repeats itself, I guess I have nothing to worry about. (I'm kind of new to FreeBSD so I don't really know about it's major version number change leaps and stabilization process and so on from first hand experience).
6. Re:One /. article for every beta? by CoolGopher · 2004-09-29 19:24 · Score: 1
  
  Doh!
  
  There goes my nicely planned week-off-work-to-upgrade-everything-to-5.3-REL :/
BSD is rice!! by devphaeton · 2004-09-28 08:58 · Score: 2, Funny

So if i keep doing a make world up to each new Beta as it comes out, does that mean i'm in danger of becoming a Gentoo RiceBoi?? :-D

(p.s.: me 3 FreeBSD and Debian)

--

do() || do_not(); // try();
Re:Release engineering? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 00:03 · Score: 0

And you can't seem to be bothered to post a link to the PR that has been submitted.
Re:Release engineering? by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 07:34 · Score: 0

This is hardly surprising considering that one of the guys in charge doesn't even know how to quote on mailing lists (yes, that 75 IQ Scott Long idiot) and half of the developers are flaming assholes too busy with their egos to realise what a piece of shit 5.3 is going to be. Do you remember the 2.2.8 days when FreeBSD was rock solid? That's no longer true.

Thankfully, somebody came up a solution

Darling Smorgrav
As Matt Dillon predicted, RELENG_5 doesn't work by Anonymous Coward · 2004-09-29 07:39 · Score: 0

Of course Matt knew this mutex approach to the SMP problem would never work, and here's the proof. A new version shipping 2 years late, full of bugs and with little, if any, chance of ever working. The assholes that decided to remove his commit bit must be pretty jealous about the fast development pace in DragonFlyBSD land.

Darling Smorgrav
FreeBSD far superior to Linux by Anonymous Coward · 2004-10-04 16:29 · Score: 0

I don't know much about computers, just enough to install various UNIX OSs. What I have learned is Debian is a complete waste of time as it uses very old X-Windows components. Red Hat's installation GUI is very slick, but extremely buggy on various hardware combinations, especially the ability simply to read the boot partition on some hard drives.

I have had best luck installing FreeBSD. Although the DOS based installion GUI isn't as slick as Red Hat's at least the OS installs without problems on just about every hardware combination I have tried.

For some reason I always have to move XF86Config to /etc/X11, other than that FreeBSD is far more polished than Linux. I don't know why Linux people have such a dislike for FreeBSD, after all, its a superior OS.