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Maryland Tests Voting Machine, Declares Success
Dachannien writes "Capital News Service reports that the Maryland State Board of Elections has staged a test of its Diebold touch-screen voting machines in an effort to demonstrate their security and accuracy. A machine randomly selected from Maryland's voting machine warehouse was tested in a mock vote against two human vote-counting counterparts, and after counting fifty votes, the human vote counters had made several errors versus zero for the voting machine. But is this a legitimate test of the concerns of voting machine activists, or does it merely support a logical fallacy?"
International election observers noted several issues with the US election process this year. One of the criticism in their report is electronic voting without a paper trail. Here's the link
Your pizza just the way you ought to have it.
We *know* computers can count very well. That's what they were designed for. The problem with the test they ran is that they tried to have a normal, successful election. Try this test: try to rig it. So it succeeds at the easy part, that proves nothing. I hope TrueVoteMD manages to flog the state on this one.
That is not enough to do a statistical test. it just a feel good, look it going to work bull shit.
1 Machine and 50 votes, that's really small sample size. Wouldn't it be better to do something like 1% of the machines to be used (or 5 or 10%, just pick a number) and have the number of people expeceted to use the machine use it(or have lots more people then expected, just to make sure it can scale it the future)?
I guess I shouldn't be surprised that their test didn't include someone trying to hack it. Last count that took a couple of minutes. It would have been faster, but the people "testing" it too the time to remove any evidence they'd done anything.
Holding the machine up to a zero-defect standard is the logical fallacy.
Any voting system has potential for fraud, mistakes, etc. The issue should not be whether this system has that potential, but whether it's any better or worse than the current system, which isn't that great. You can't tell me that it's not within the realm of possibility for a purely mechanical machine to malfunction, or be rigged.
If something bad doesn't happen with these new machines, I'd be very surprised. That would worry me far more than hearing about a perfect election with no mistakes, as that's evidence that someone is truly incompetent or lying.
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
Where does this intense desire to use an electronic voting system come from in the first place? What is the net result of pulling people away from the process? Withough vote counters and poll workers, will we eventually cause people to care even less about elections?
Florida taught us one thing: News broadcasts showing jillions of people counting and recounting ballots can spur interest in the political process and get more people to vote.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
Were they Diebold employees or something? That's simply not credible.
Point by point;
That depends entirely on who is doing the rigging. The conspiracy theorists on the left think that Diabold has ties to the right wing and may assist in election fraud...covering over any issues with technical hand waving and hiding any of the real details.
Having all parts of government -- including the electorial process -- open to examination in detail is key to ensuring that the conspiracy theorists are never right. For all we know now, elections are rigged everywhere. Closed computer systems just automate the process.
Also, as anyone who knows how to harden systems in the field or monitor existing code knows never expect your tools to do your job . Having the source leads to the potential for absolute accountability, though if those systems aren't checked -- closed or open -- you've lost any assurance that things are working as you would expect.
People make mistkes on paper all the time. That's what the dog and pony show in MD was staged to show...and they are right. What the Diabold system does not provide is complete transparency to the individual voter level let alone what the magic black boxes are actually doing. If *I* want to verify my vote, *I CAN'T* as a citizen do so with the current system. If President Carter wants to do the same, he can't either!
Paper can be ignored. Vote counts can be changed. Electronic methods can make vote counting both more accurate and more prone to fraud...transparancy and accountability to such a level that any part can be questioned and examined are needed. We haven't had that and we won't have that with the Diabold system as it currently is. That's the problem.
A firewall can not protect you from yourself. Turn off what you do not need. Do not use the firewall to do your work.
In Canada they vote on paper and count the votes by hand. They have the votes counted by the next day.
I'm certain Bush will win everywhere these machines are used.
We need to test the system when it FAILS. Just sitting here on the shitter I came up with this test:
1) set up two electronic voting machines. One works "normally" and another has been tampered with so that it sometimes records a vote that differs from the real votes. Don't reveal the probabilities or algorithm involved or which machine has been tampered with.
2) Set up two punched-card ballot where the candidates have been mislabeled. Don't reveal how it has been mislabeled or which has been mislabeled.
3) Perform votes on each.
4) Count votes.
5) Create a scandal: reveal that there was tampering. Ask the counters to perform an accurate re-count with this new information.
With the punch card ballots, this is trivial. Check the correct layout of names, find which machine had names swapped, re-count knowing which names are correct.
With the EVM, this is impossible. The machine has to be sent back to Diebold for examination. The hacker might've simply caused the machine to wipe all memory after 24 hours, hiding his algorithm completely. A closed-source third-party company gets to decide your election. Do you trust them?
after counting fifty votes, the human vote counters had made several errors versus zero for the voting machine.
.MDB files. Election Day hasn't even arrived yet and already people have been busy introducing systematic error into the pool of registered voters. Even if the 2004 election involves pretty blinking lights, and is the most precise ever, it will undoubtedly be a less accurate measurement of the desires of the electorate than the election we had in 2000. This is what Stalin meant when he said that those who cast the votes decide nothing, and those who count the votes determine everything.
Did the humans make random errors (degrading precision), or errors tending to favor one candidate (worse, degrading accuracy)?
This looks like a test of precision, not accuracy, and Maryland is confusing the two. I wrote a long post a few days ago in another story that's relevant to this one, and makes the point I'd want to make here, so I'll be a lamer and paste it.
* * *
The punch card system proved itself to be a very accurate method of vote counting, even under the extreme condition of a tie- to a precision of several hundred votes. Much attention was paid to the relatively few cards that had chads hanging, but the vast majority of the cards were quite unambiguous in their representation of the voter's intent. Unfortunately they occurred in equal numbers for both candidates. The entire system was at least as auditable as any vote counting system can possibly be.
People don't understand the difference between precision and accuracy. Precision means that, given a measurable X, your measurements are sharply defined. But that is not the same as accuracy- which implies that the measurements actually reflect the true value of X, and not the influences of other sources of systematic error- like air resistance, or the thermal expansion of the ruler you're using, or the political affiliation of the manufacturer of your measuring equipment. A measurement is only accurate if sources of systematic error have been minimized. Sources of random error- like hanging chads- merely degrade precision.
The outcry for computerized voting that followed the 2000 election- to "bring our elections into the 21st century" and similar nonsense- was most unfortunate. We are making the transition from an accurate but slightly imprecise system to a new system that promises only extreme precision with no guarantees of accuracy. What is worse, we are about to trade susceptibility to random error for something far worse- susceptibility to systematic error- which is fundamentally different from a human perspective since it introduces a huge motive for people to screw with the accuracy of the electoral process.
The 2000 election had its share of systematic error. There was that butterfly ballot, which confused both Gore and Bush voters alike, but had the effect of transforming Bush votes into Bush votes and Gore votes into Buchanan votes. There was the Florida felon purge, which knocked thousands of blacks but only dozens of Cubans off the rolls. The 2000 election is still bitterly disputed, but very few people still complain about the hanging chads, which were sources of random error with relatively nonpartisan effects. The sources of systematic error had a much more corrosive effect- they cast doubt on the very legitimacy of the outcome, since they gave the election the appearance of having been stolen.
I have no doubt that we have an ultraprecise election ahead of us- computers are good at being deterministic, after all- but as far as accuracy goes- we'll see. There are many who would love to insert some systematic error into those Access
In North Dakota, we:
1. Can't kill ourselves on the highways no matter how fast or drunk we get, there's nothing to hit.
2. You almost never hear the word N*gg*r, around here we assume anyone with any pigment in their skin whatsoever is a graduate student.
3. Would also let the KKK hold a peaceful rally with impunity (I think that's covered by the 1st amendment.) But we'd ask them to schedule it in the winter to generate heat.
4. Allow write-in voting, and don't have any form of voter registration, (using instead any reasonable evidence of residence in the precinct,) so electronic voting machines are pretty unlikely.
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
i forgot to finish this sentence: ... mouths quiet or they'd be KILLED (many of whom i've talked to and informed me about their 'status' when asked about the racism down here) ...
and I'll say it again.
Without a Paper Trial, this system is not trustworthy.
I hate Diebold for political reasons, but I'd still be OK with the system, even though Diebold makes it, if it had a paper trail the voter could see and the Board of Elections could use in the event of trouble.
These people, OTOH, have a system I would trust:
http://www.sequoiavote.com/
This test was in a vacuum,so of course it wouldn't have any issues.
I remain unconvinced of the security/reliability of paperless ballots, epecially Diebold.
.
If I had a real
Yes, I'm serious. There's a software setting on the touchscreen to do one or the other.
But that's OK, 'cuz the software in there is "certified" and subjected to code analysis by a test lab, right?
Oooops. Diebold withheld thousands of lines of custom code in the voting terminals from review by declaring it "Commercial Off The Shelf" (COTS) software. Under FEC rules, "COTS" doesn't need serious scrutiny...but Windows CE at the terminal is NOT "COTS" despite Diebold's assertions otherwise - WinCE is a "software kit" that needs to be "finished" (mostly core drivers like video, etc) by the hardware manufacturer.
Diebold.
So hide a couple hundred lines of code somewhere that checks for the "election mode" versus "test mode" flag...
For more on this WinCE issue including Diebold internal EMails discussing it:
http://www.equalccw.com/sscomments2.html
That's not even getting into how screwed up the central tabulator software is:
http://www.equalccw.com/deandemo.html
Ain't no WAY you can trust a Diebold system. Period.
Jim March
Member, Board of Directors, www.blackboxvoting.org
these backwater bastards are 99% pro-bush/pro-neocon/pro-racial purity who have nothing more than 4 more years of bush in their hearts.
That's an interesting statement about a state that voted for Gore in 2000 and will almost certainly go to Kerry in 2004.
The failure modes, however, should be considered using a metric weighted for both likelihood and impact of failure. A miscount is random; vulnerability to it is roughly equally likely to be for or against the candidate who would otherwise win. Sabotage on the other hand, where deliberate vote tampering occurs to a directed purpose, is highly likely to be for an undeserving candidate-- almost by definition. As such, I'd consider vulnerability to tampering a bigger problem than an equal probablility of a vote miscount. And the most effective way to reduce vulnerability to tampering is to increase transparancy to (multipartisan) human observers-- which the proposed electronic methods need to work on.
I believe it is possible for electronic voting to allow for an improvement in both usability and security in the electoral process over current methods. I do NOT believe it represents that improvement yet.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
well, you can probably thank annapolis and baltimore for that, and the dc area... wander away from those places and suddenly you realize how pretty your mouth is.
SQUEAL LIKE A PIG, BOY!
They don't need to test whether these machines count properly or not. What they need to test is whether they result in the election of the proper candidate.
I wonder if Diebold has considered people who will change banks becauses they have Diebold emblazoned on their vaults and ATMs. I did.
Ed Craig "Who cares what you think?" George W. Bush, 4th of July 2001
I mean things always happen. Just getting a new browser and email client have been months of hard work and debugging for the Mozilla developers.
... especially in the USA.
Personally, I'm skeptical. People are willing to kill over $10 in someone's pocket. Why wouldn't we believe that people will resort to things like election machine tampering when it affects who controls the most powerful nation on Earth?
I'm not reassured by Diebold's CEO about "doing anything" to get Bush re-elected. But really, is a paper trail going to fix that?
There is nothing preventing a system from printing one thing, and logging another. Any hand-counted discrepancies would be considered "human error" and discounted, anyway. And while a code audit may not be realistic, having the machine's code secret due to patent rights is just plain silly!
Machines could be checked by a number of ways, including a sort of ghosting/registry check done by an independent agency supervised by the various parties. And so on.
But then there's the need to hardened the machines to external manipulation. The casinos have been fighting this for years, and still people find ways to cheat.
All we can do as citizens is keep fighting. The struggle for freedom will never go away, not even in the USA
media girl
Imagine that some state has n ballots which are mistakenly marked, but are done so randomly, that is each one is 50% likely to be Democratic instead of Republican or vice versa (I'm simplifying things by using a 2-party system here, but the same argument would hold with more parties).
Each time we miscount a Democratic Vote as a Republican, we mistakenly increase the Republican's margin by 2 votes. The reverse holds true when we miscount the other way. So the error in our margin can be thought of as the sum of n random numbers, each of which is equally likely to be 2 and -2. It is a known result from probability theory that such a "random walk" will be on (root mean square) average only about 2sqrt(n) steps away from 0. In other words, almost all the errors cancel!
Florida had a 537-vote margin in 2000. For that margin to have a 50% chance of occuring would have required roughly 72,000 random errors in counting (probably more, since usually less than half of a set of data is above its Root mean square). On the other hand, a 600 vote sufficiently systematic error would have been plenty.
This disparity only gets worse when we look at margins which would have been larger than 537 votes before error creeps in, but even at this level I'd be more worried about losing 600 votes by Fraud than having 72,000 of them miscounted.
OK, I'll bite.
It is much easier to steal an election if there is no way to recount the votes. Clear?
It is much easier to avoid recounting the votes if you replace all the voting machines with new "efficient, electronic" machines that have no recount ability. Clear?
It is much easier to replace all of the voting machines if you argue that this will "improve" voting for disabled people. Clear?
It is much easier to sell the concept of electronic voting if you point out that the machines will be cheaper without each one having to have a printer. Clear?
It is much easier to build cheaper machines if you have all of the new machines built by companies controlled by Republicans. Clear?
Conclusion: Stealing elections by requiring people to vote on machines which leave no paper trail that were built by the party in power is the American Way!
Clear?
If this is not clear to you, pick up the book Black Box Voting by Bev Harris. She explains it better than I ever could.[Direct link to Amazon, not affiliate]
DNA is a Turing machine. You, however, being dynamic and emergent, are not.
You can degrade accuracy by increasing precision.
Say all the Democratic voting districts still vote on punchcards while the Republican suburbanites vote on their brand new ultraprecise Diebold machines. This gets rid of the random error in the Republican districts. However it converts the random error from hanging chads in the Democratic districts into systematic error favoring Republicans, since random walks toward Republican candidates in Democratic districts are no longer balanced by random walks toward Democratic candidates in Republican districts. If you're going to use Diebold machines, you'd better buy enough for everybody.
Republicans are dispatching goons to polling places in poor neighborhoods to challenge the legitimacy of every voter who walks in the door. So this entire discussion is a bit academic.
In a fair fight, yeah, Maryland would easily go to Kerry given its demographics and past voting history, despite voting for Nixon, Reagan's second term, and Bush Senior.
(The widget hyperlinked above goes to the BBC. It's fun to play with, even despite it being Flash.)
However, there are a few facts to keep in mind.
1. Maryland is using electronic voting machines. So someone who wants to move a few votes around can do so thanks to the lackluster security on the back-end. That was discussed by the article, and it's been evident enough from shloads of stories over the past year or so.
Now, the kicker: 2. How many Presidential tickets are there on the Maryland ballot? Would you believe six?!? And there are three write-ins available below those! Anyone who wants to do a little jiggery-pokery can certainly make the numbers look good. Shave a few votes off of Badnarik, and add them to Bush. Shave a few votes off of Kerry and add them to the Green ticket (Cobb/LaMarche) and the Populist ticket (Nader/Camejo). Heck, shave some of those votes off of Kerry and stick them on Bush. As long as nobody contests, and nobody goes overboard (like eliminating ALL of the Libertarian ballots as was done elsewhere once), there's no reason small numbers in changes would be suspect.
Between all those options, the race could probably be thrown to either Bush or Kerry. And I have been seeing a lot of Bush/Cheney/Pipkin (senate) signs slapped around the roadways, so it's possible that there's enough support for Bush to make the skimfest proposed above work succeed.
You cannot truly appreciate Dilbert until you read it in the original Klingon.
I have been wondering why this hasnt been covered in the main-stream press, and more importantly why voters are not up in arms about this issue. As much as a conspiracy freak as I can get sometimes, I refuse to believe in a left or right wing conspiracy in the media. (I think there is an anti-administration/pro-scandal bias-compare media fervor over WMD intelligence and blue dress stain intelligence and you'll get my point)
If we want to get the public's attention on this issue, we need one of the following to happen:
On this critical issue, I think we need to start petitioning producers of "Survivor" and the judge in the Lacey Peterson case- a simple effort on the part of either of these individuals could spare our nation the pain of another election scandal.