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NetBSD Branches pkgsrc-2005Q1

jschauma writes "NetBSD's Alistair Crooks has announced the availability of the new stable branch pkgsrc-2005Q1 of the NetBSD Packages Collection (aka pkgsrc). This branch includes all the updates to the thousands of existing and additions of hundreds of new applications since the hereby obsoleted pkgsrc-2004Q4 branch. Some noteworthy infrastructure changes applicable to all 13 operating systems for which pkgsrc is available include the support for multiple digests to check the integrity of the distribution files as found on the Internet (triggered by the recently-found problems with the SHA-1 algorithm) and the so-called alternates framework."

29 comments

  1. 5.4 Beta1 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic


    In other BSD news, the FreeBSD 5.4-BETA1 is out as well.

  2. Who Cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Who cares? *BSD is dying anyway.

    1. Re:Who Cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I care a lot.

      We run all our servers on blah blah and it's like blah stable blah uptime blah not Linux blah blah not Windows 2003 blah blah.

  3. Logo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I know it's been around for a few months now, but does anyone else think NetBSD's new logo sucks?

  4. Lessons from the Grave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    What We Can Learn From BSD
    By Chinese Karma Whore, Version 1.0

    Everyone knows about BSD's failure and imminent demise. As we pore over the history of BSD, we'll uncover a story of fatal mistakes, poor priorities, and personal rivalry, and we'll learn what mistakes to avoid so as to save Linux from a similarly grisly fate.

    Let's not be overly morbid and give BSD credit for its early successes. In the 1970s, Ken Thompson and Bill Joy both made significant contributions to the computing world on the BSD platform. In the 80s, DARPA saw BSD as the premiere open platform, and, after initial successes with the 4.1BSD product, gave the BSD company a 2 year contract.

    These early triumphs would soon be forgotten in a series of internal conflicts that would mar BSD's progress. In 1992, AT&T filed suit against Berkeley Software, claiming that proprietary code agreements had been haphazardly violated. In the same year, BSD filed countersuit, reciprocating bad intentions and fueling internal rivalry. While AT&T and Berkeley Software lawyers battled in court, lead developers of various BSD distributions quarreled on Usenet. In 1995, Theo de Raadt, one of the founders of the NetBSD project, formed his own rival distribution, OpenBSD, as the result of a quarrel that he documents on his website. Mr. de Raadt's stubborn arrogance was later seen in his clash with Darren Reed, which resulted in the expulsion of IPF from the OpenBSD distribution.

    As personal rivalries took precedence over a quality product, BSD's codebase became worse and worse. As we all know, incompatibilities between each BSD distribution make code sharing an arduous task. Research conducted at MIT found BSD's filesystem implementation to be "very poorly performing." Even BSD's acclaimed TCP/IP stack has lagged behind, according to this study.

    Problems with BSD's codebase were compounded by fundamental flaws in the BSD design approach. As argued by Eric Raymond in his watershed essay, The Cathedral and the Bazaar, rapid, decentralized development models are inherently superior to slow, centralized ones in software development. BSD developers never heeded Mr. Raymond's lesson and insisted that centralized models lead to 'cleaner code.' Don't believe their hype - BSD's development model has significantly impaired its progress. Any achievements that BSD managed to make were nullified by the BSD license, which allows corporations and coders alike to reap profits without reciprocating the goodwill of open-source. Fortunately, Linux is not prone to this exploitation, as it is licensed under the GPL.

    The failure of BSD culminated in the resignation of Jordan Hubbard and Michael Smith from the FreeBSD core team. They both believed that FreeBSD had long lost its earlier vitality. Like an empire in decline, BSD had become bureaucratic and stagnant. As Linux gains market share and as BSD sinks deeper into the mire of decay, their parting addresses will resound as fitting eulogies to BSD's demise.

  5. Developer Laments: What Killed FreeBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    The End of FreeBSD

    [ed. note: in the following text, former FreeBSD developer Mike Smith gives his reasons for abandoning FreeBSD]

    When I stood for election to the FreeBSD core team nearly two years ago, many of you will recall that it was after a long series of debates during which I maintained that too much organisation, too many rules and too much formality would be a bad thing for the project.

    Today, as I read the latest discussions on the future of the FreeBSD project, I see the same problem; a few new faces and many of the old going over the same tired arguments and suggesting variations on the same worthless schemes. Frankly I'm sick of it.

    FreeBSD used to be fun. It used to be about doing things the right way. It used to be something that you could sink your teeth into when the mundane chores of programming for a living got you down. It was something cool and exciting; a way to spend your spare time on an endeavour you loved that was at the same time wholesome and worthwhile.

    It's not anymore. It's about bylaws and committees and reports and milestones, telling others what to do and doing what you're told. It's about who can rant the longest or shout the loudest or mislead the most people into a bloc in order to legitimise doing what they think is best. Individuals notwithstanding, the project as a whole has lost track of where it's going, and has instead become obsessed with process and mechanics.

    So I'm leaving core. I don't want to feel like I should be "doing something" about a project that has lost interest in having something done for it. I don't have the energy to fight what has clearly become a losing battle; I have a life to live and a job to keep, and I won't achieve any of the goals I personally consider worthwhile if I remain obligated to care for the project.

    Discussion

    I'm sure that I've offended some people already; I'm sure that by the time I'm done here, I'll have offended more. If you feel a need to play to the crowd in your replies rather than make a sincere effort to address the problems I'm discussing here, please do us the courtesy of playing your politics openly.

    From a technical perspective, the project faces a set of challenges that significantly outstrips our ability to deliver. Some of the resources that we need to address these challenges are tied up in the fruitless metadiscussions that have raged since we made the mistake of electing officers. Others have left in disgust, or been driven out by the culture of abuse and distraction that has grown up since then. More may well remain available to recruitment, but while the project is busy infighting our chances for successful outreach are sorely diminished.

    There's no simple solution to this. For the project to move forward, one or the other of the warring philosophies must win out; either the project returns to its laid-back roots and gets on with the work, or it transforms into a super-organised engineering project and executes a brilliant plan to deliver what, ultimately, we all know we want.

    Whatever path is chosen, whatever balance is struck, the choosing and the striking are the important parts. The current indecision and endless conflict are incompatible with any sort of progress.

    Trying to dissect the above is far beyond the scope of any parting shot, no matter how distended. All I can really ask of you all is to let go of the minutiae for a moment and take a look at the big picture. What is the ultimate goal here? How can we get there with as little overhead as possible? How would you like to be treated by your fellow travellers?

    Shouts

    To the Slashdot "BSD is dying" crowd - big deal. Death is part of the cycle; take a look at your soft, pallid bodies and consider that right this very moment, parts of you are dying. See? It's not so bad.

    To the bulk of the FreeBSD committerbase and the developer community at large - keep your eyes on the real goals. It

  6. *BSD is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    It is now official. Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be the Amazing Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

    FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save *BSD at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    Fact: *BSD is dying

  7. It's dead, Jim by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    In order for us to understand the big picture,
    we have to realize one simple fundamental fact:
    FreeBSD is dying

    Come to terms with this basic truth, and you're home free.

  8. Terri Schiavo - dead at 54 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    I just read the news on the drudge report -- vegetable/sex slave Terri Schiavo is dead. No other details were available. Even if you didn't argue that she should be allowed to live, you probably argued that she should be put out of her misery. Truly an abortion rights proxy icon.

  9. Requiem for the FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1
    // Please *don't* mod this up. It has already been done! Thx

    ... facts are facts. ;)

    FreeBSD:
    FreeBSD, Stealth-Growth Open Source Project (Jun 2004)
    "FreeBSD has dramatically increased its market penetration over the last year."
    Nearly 2.5 Million Active Sites running FreeBSD (Jun 2004)
    "[FreeBSD] has secured a strong foothold with the hosting community and continues to grow, gaining over a million hostnames and half a million active sites since July 2003."
    What's New in the FreeBSD Network Stack (Sep 2004)
    "FreeBSD can now route 1Mpps on a 2.8GHz Xeon whilst Linux can't do much more than 100kpps."

    NetBSD:
    NetBSD, for When Portability and Stability Matter (Oct 2004)
    NetBSD sets Internet2 Land Speed World Record (May 2004)
    NetBSD again sets Internet2 Land Speed World Record (Sep 2004)

    OpenBSD:
    OpenBSD Widens Its Scope (Nov 2004)
    Review: OpenBSD 3.6 shows steady improvement (Nov 2004)
    OpenSSH (OpenBSD subproject) has become a de facto Internet standard.

    *BSD in general:
    Deep study: The world's safest computing environment (Nov 2004)
    "The world's safest and most secure 24/7 online computing environment - operating system plus applications - is proving to be the Open Source platform of BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution) and the Mac OS X based on Darwin."
    BSD Success Stories (O'Reilly, 2004) (pdf) ~ from Onlamp BSD DevCenter
    "The BSDs - FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Darwin, and others - have earned a reputation for stability, security, performance, and ease of administration."
    ..and last but not least, we have the cutest mascot as well - undisputedly. ;)

    --
    Being able to read *other people's* source code is a nice thing, not a 'fundamental freedom'.

  10. Same old Linux FUD... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Same old GNU/Linux FUD, that has been disproved countless times..
    In short: the MIT research is *11 years old*, and that Rice study on the TCP/IP stack uses FreeBSD *2.2.6*.

  11. Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Where are the binary packages for pkgsrc-2005Q1? I can't find them on ftp.netbsd.org.

    1. Re:Binary packages? by jschauma · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Binary packages will be uploaded as soon as the various bulk-builds on the different operating systems and NetBSD ports have completed. This takes a while on some older platforms, though I'd expect some of the faster platforms to soon upload.

      --

      -- "Tradition is the illusion of permanence."
    2. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now the big one FAQ: how do I upgrade (binary) packages? "make update" not being an option...

    3. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pkgtools/pkg_chk

    4. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, but how *exactly*? Could you give the exact command line options for

      1) upgrading a single package (with or without dependencies),
      2) upgrading a package + anything depending on it,
      3) upgrading all packages

      (suppose binary packages everywhere, I can build these with pkg_comp.)

      Thanks.

    5. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      man pkg_chk ?? maybe..

    6. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you insist it's so simple, could you then please give the exact command line equivalent of "portupgrade -r kdebase3", i.e. upgrade kde + everything that depends on it.

      To my understandings (from the manpage, yes), pkg_chk can only act on _all_ packages installed.
      Yes, pkg_chk -c *checks* a given list of packages (in pkgchk.conf), but cannot upgrade (-u) that set only, it will upgrade all your packages.

    7. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I was the original AC who asked about where the pkgsrc-2005Q1 binary packages are.

      I've heard a lot of good things about pkgsrc, and how it's ultra-portable etc. That's why I'm surprised that pkgsrc still does not have a decent way to do something as "simple" as upgrading binary packages recursively. I say "simple" since upgrading binary packages should be relatively straightforward, seeing that pkgsrc developers must have looked into a lot of complex package management issues (after all, pkgsrc is portable across a gazillion platforms).

      Even OpenBSD, which reputedly has substandard package management tools, will be able to upgrade binary packages this way in the upcoming release using pkg_add -r.

      I really hope someone can prove to me that pkgsrc does have a convenient way to upgrade binary packages. My faith in pkgsrc and NetBSD is waning.

    8. Re:Binary packages? by jschauma · · Score: 2

      From what I read here, I understand that 'pkg_add -r' automatically updates the given package and all of its dependencies. It's not quite clear to me, though, what exactly that means. After upgrading a given package, does it: (a) upgrade each package that depends on this one to the latest available binary package? (b) upgrade only those packages that rely on the newer version (for example, for ABI changes) but leave others (the ones that will work perfectly fine with the older version as well as the newer) alone? (c) only update the given package and reshuffle dependencies so that all packages that used to depend on foo-old now depend on foo-new?

      (a) has the following problems: what if binary packages for all dependents are simply not available? Leave the old packages in place? What if it's known that the depending package will not work with the newer to-be-installed one?

      (b) would be great, but is very difficult, I think. It requires that the binary package contains information about a large number of other packages and how they may or may not work together.

      (c) is trivial (for pkgsrc (not binary packages) that would be 'pkg_add -u'), but has the same problems as 'make replace'.

      pkgsrc approaches (b) by the use of so-called recommended vs required dependencies. (Again, for pkgsrc, though binary packages built with IGNORE_RECOMMENDS can be forced to be installed.)

      If I want to upgrade, say, kde3 (*shudder*) from binary packages, I'd simply run 'pkg_add -u kde3' -- ie, I'd start at the leaf package and let it pull in all dependencies. This is not the same as starting with a package somewhere in the middle of your dependency-tree, but it has a much clearer solution. Rippling downwoards through a dependency-tree from the middle is obviously difficult ('make update' does that if building from pkgsrc instead of using binary packages).

      I may be mistaken, but I don't think that NetBSD's pkg_add has the functionality to do that -- presumably just b/c people haven't figured out what The Right Thing To Do is exactly. On the mailing lists, pkg_chk and pkg_comp are usually suggested to perform these tasks.

      --

      -- "Tradition is the illusion of permanence."
    9. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      The answer to the question to recursively upgrade binary packages seems to be not pkg_chk, but pkg_add -uu. From its manpage:

      -u If the package that's being installed is already installed,
      either in the same or a different version, an update is per-
      formed. If this is specified twice, then any dependant packages
      that are too old will also be updated to fulfill the dependency.
      See below for a more detailed description of the process.

    10. Re:Binary packages? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
      Original where-are-binary-packages AC again.

      Thanks for your insight into pkgsrc.

      This is what the OpenBSD man page says about pkg_add -r.
      -r Allow replacing existing packages. The code will try to take
      every precaution to make sure the update can proceed before re-
      moving the old package and adding the new one, and it should al-
      so handle shared libraries correctly.
      I guess it's unfair to compare NetBSD's pkgsrc to OpenBSD's package management. I think that's because NetBSD's pkgsrc is a moving target, where a particular release (say, NetBSD 2.0) can be used with multiple pkgsrc trees (e.g. pkgsrc-2004Q4, pkgsrc-2005Q1, etc.).

      OTOH OpenBSD's packages are fixed to that release -- OpenBSD 3.6 only uses packages for OpenBSD 3.6 (packages get minor post-release fixes, but there are no radical changes). So I suppose it's "easier" to upgrade OpenBSD packages with multiple dependencies, since things usually stay as they are.

      Well I hope NetBSD developers find The Right Thing To Do soon. I'm beginning to like NetBSD, but stuff like upgrading binary packages always stumps me. I'm surprised that the pkgsrc guide says nothing about this (or am I wrong). Perhaps I should email Alistair or Hubert about this.
    11. Re:Binary packages? by jschauma · · Score: 1

      Binary packages have been uploaded (so far) for:
      NetBSD-2.0/amd64, NetBSD-2.0/i386, NetBSD-1.6.2/i386, NetBSD-2.0/sparc and IRIX64-6.5 (including PGP signed checksum files).

      --

      -- "Tradition is the illusion of permanence."
  12. Atkinson is working on BSD sequel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    29 March 2005
    Atkinson is working on BSD sequel
    Rowan Atkinson is to return to the big screen as the pathologically clumsy BSD.

    Variety reports that Atkinson is working with Simon McBurney, the actor-director behind acting troupe Theatre de Complicite, to develop the film.

    Theatre de Complicite is well-known for its fusion of physical theatre and comedy.

    The film is likely to begin shooting later this year.
    It will run on a SPARC 2000 Cluster and will make kittens explode on contact with a small mars lander in contact with the head of a large kitten dancing in one million meow moew moew moew meow!!!

    WOOF said the dog - what did the cat say?

    NIG JHARY BOLLOESF

    1. Re:Atkinson is working on BSD sequel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Offtopic

      Garfield: I think this belongs to you.
      [Garfield throws a pillow at Odie]
      Garfield: Oh that was a cheap shot.

      Garfield: [Garfield is pigging out on flavor blasted Goldfish and then he burps] And that's a sign that the tank is full.

      Garfield: I hate Mondays.

      Garfield: You can stop dreaming about me cause I'm here now. Come on wake up. Your not just my owner your my caregiver.Look I'm getting my exercise doing my thing. All you need is a slight CANNONBALLLLLL!

      Garfield: All right, wise guy, I got another game for ya. It's called the "My Claw In Your Butt" game. Now let me out!

      Garfield: Jon! Jon! Odie is on TV, and he's wearing lederhosen!

      Garfield: Love me, feed me, never leave me.

      Garfield: I think... I'm going to blow cat chow chunks.

      Garfield: [to mouse after spitting him out] Have you tasted yourself lately?

      Garfield: Not only are you my owner, but my primary caregiver.

      Garfield: So much time, so little to do...

  13. Wired News Confirms *BSD is Dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    IT IS OFFICIAL; WIRED NEWS CONFIRMS: LINUX IS SUPERIOR TO *BSD
    *BSD is Dying, Says Respected Journal

    Linux advocates have long insisted that open-source development results in better and more secure software. Now they have statistics to back up their claims.

    According to a four-year analysis of the 5.7 million lines of Linux source code conducted by five Stanford University computer science researchers, the Linux kernel programming code is better and more secure than the programming code of *BSD.

    The report, set to be released on Tuesday, states that the 2.6 Linux production kernel, shipped with software from Red Hat, Novell and other major Linux software vendors, contains 985 bugs in 5.7 million lines of code, well below the average for *BSD software. NetBSD, by comparison, contains about 40 million lines of code, with new bugs found on a frequent basis.

    *BSD software typically has 20 to 30 bugs for every 1,000 lines of code, according to Carnegie Mellon University's CyLab Sustainable Computing Consortium. This would be equivalent to 114,000 to 171,000 bugs in 5.7 million lines of code.

    The study identified 0.17 bugs per 1,000 lines of code in the Linux kernel. Of the 985 bugs identified, 627 were in critical parts of the kernel. Another 569 could cause a system crash, 100 were security holes, and 33 of the bugs could result in less-than-optimal system performance.

    Seth Hallem, CEO of Coverity, a provider of source-code analysis, noted that the majority of the bugs documented in the study have already been fixed by members of the Linux development community.

    "Our findings show that Linux contains an extremely low defect rate and is evidence of the strong security of Linux," said Hallem. "Many security holes in software are the result of software bugs that can be eliminated with good programming processes. Unfortunately, we don't find a lot of good practices in NetBSD. Mostly we just find in-fighting and security holes. I can conclusively say that NetBSD is dying."

    The Linux source-code analysis project started in 2000 at the Stanford University Computer Science Research Center as part of a large research initiative to improve core software engineering processes in the software industry.

    The initiative now continues at Coverity, a software engineering startup that now employs the five researchers who conducted the study. Coverity said it intends to start providing Linux bug analysis reports on a regular basis and will make a summary of the results freely available to the Linux development community.

    "This is a benefit to the Linux development community, and we appreciate Coverity's efforts to help us improve the security and stability of Linux," said Andrew Morton, lead Linux kernel maintainer. Morton said developers have already addressed the top-priority bugs uncovered in the study.

  14. yeah !! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    w00t, another branch.
    Sure, why coordinate development and move ahead when you can branch, do duplicate work just to be able to have something where you can put your name in the headers.
    Branching kills progress and productivity. No wonder this happens with BSD, an OS that is going nowhere.

    1. Re:yeah !! by setagllib · · Score: 1

      Would Linux 2.6 be where it is if it had been conservatively developed on from 2.4? Short answer: No. Long answer: Definitely not.

      Branching lets people use a continuing product with one development model while another version of the same product is worked on with another development model. After a certain agreed-upon stage of development, the roles change. For instance, the unstable branch gets to a stage of maturity, and it is made the stable branch.

      That's why BSDs always have something stable and typically something getting new tech, and are going exactly where they should be. Meanwhile Linux has unbelievable numbers of bugs (Coverity alone found almost 1000 in 2.6.8, and 5 in NetBSD -current) and constant ABI incompatibilities - NPTL changes, IPSec changes, changes that mean old NVidia video drivers don't work any more, and so on. Why? No good reason. And it's all done in a 'stable' branch because Linus doesn't see a need to fork right now. So people are actually using an active development branch that is labelled a stable branch, and are surprised when something breaks or requires rebuilding significant userland components.

      --
      Sam ty sig.
  15. Resignation Letter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To: Bill Joy, Creator of *BSD

    March 10, 2005

    Dear Mr. Joy:

    I am joining my colleague DragonFlyBSD in submitting my resignation from the list of living operating systems (effective immediately) because I cannot in good conscience compete with Linux.

    I have failed:

    --To support SMP

    --To generate media attention

    --To spawn a professionally managed distribution

    --To innovate

    --To be relevant.

    Throughout the globe *BSD is becoming associated with in-fighting and sloppy coding. My disregard for views of other operating systems, borne out by my neglect of technical competence, is giving birth to an anti-BSD century.

    I joined the operating system world because I love technology. Respectfully, Mr. Secretary, I am now bringing this calling to a close, with a heavy heart but for the same reason that I embraced it.

    Sincerely,

    *BSD
    Dead Operating System