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Open Source GIS Conference Wrapup

Wugger writes "The open source GIS community has been around for a long time, but has only been meeting regularly for the past three years. The most recent conference wrapped up on the weekend in Minneapolis. An excellent summary article and blog postings are available from Directions Magazine. Other attendees have also posted blogs and observations. The conference was attended by 300 people this year (up from 200 the previous year) and all the major open source GIS hackers were in attendance. In addition, some proprietary corporate players showed up to check out the scene: Autodesk, ERMapper, and ESRI, the Microsoft of the GIS industry."

22 comments

  1. Low Attendance? by ndansmith · · Score: 3, Funny
    The conference was attended by 300 people this year (up from 200 the previous year).

    400 people were registered, but the missing 100 people were not able to locate the convention center thanks to faulty map software.

  2. GIS? by DJDutcher · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Google Image Search...?

    1. Re:GIS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you fucking retarded?

    2. Re:GIS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geographic Information System

      Very basically Maps + Computers + Software = GIS

    3. Re:GIS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't be such a fucking asshole. Not everyone can fucking keep up with all of the latest fucking acronyms. I didn't fucking know what it fucking meant my own fucking self, and I've probably been fucking working with fucking computers since before you fucking crawled out of your fucking mother's fucking cunt. There's no fucking excuse to be fucking rude to other fucking people, you stupid fucking shit.

  3. Harsh by IchBinEinPenguin · · Score: 2, Funny

    ... the Microsoft of the GIS industry

    That's like saying "these guys club baby penguins to death", especially on /.

    1. Re:Harsh by facelessnumber · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well... It is a good analogy though. They're the biggest, most widely-adopted vendor of GIS software, they're all about vendor lock-in, they adore the "upgrade treadmill" (Anyone ever use ArcInfo 8.x? How long?) and their software is not just buggy, but buggy in a very special way with its nearly unique capacity to infuriate the user, perhaps dare I say, even surpassing that of Microsoft. At least Microsoft's horrorshow improves with each new release. ESRI's just gets different. Features come before bugfixes. Service packs break things. And such conspicuous placement of duct tape. In some ways they're even worse than Microsoft. Their 16-bit ten year old hack ArcView 3.x is still in heavy use because there are things it can do that either can't be done in Arc8/9 or the UI has changed so radically that people just don't know how. And don't mistake that statement to mean that Arc3 is any less buggy, just that it can be more functional. Imagine WinXP, 2000, and 9x all sucking so badly that you had to dual-boot into Windows 3.1 to get any work done.

      That is why ESRI sucks.

      -An ESRI user.

    2. Re:Harsh by theapodan · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You whine and moan, but ESRI is on top for a reason, their features are useful, and the ones that they add that you malign for being buggy also are better than what the competition has generated.

      If you really want to feel the pain, try GRASS, especially for Cygwin, where its basically unusable.

      And for things that are difficult to do, ArcGIS 9 has much easier scripting with python than arcview did with AVENUE( arcview scripting) And the ancient arcinfo systems? Very painful to use.

      I hail the new features, they provide more benefit than the bugs could ever negate.

    3. Re:Harsh by zero_offset · · Score: 1

      And for things that are difficult to do, ArcGIS 9 has much easier scripting with python ...thanks to the integration of Microsoft COM.

      And the grandparent poster was correct, they do have the upgrade treadmill thing going on -- if I'm not mistakened, the very next version ditches the new COM/VBA base and moves to .NET. (Or is it two versions out? I forget...)

      Cool for programmers. Not cool for GIS shops with a lot of code. I'm presently making a lot of money on the side helping some local GIS folks port their old Avenue stuff (an awful language) to VBA macros/forms/scripts (a mostly-awful language). And yeah, they're planning to pay me to do it all over again when the .NET version is finally popular enough with their client base. Despite that, I'm still no fan of the upgrade treadmill -- I'd really rather be writing new stuff.

      --

      Slashdot quality declines as the number of hot grits posts decreases. - Provolt's Law, Apr-09-2005

    4. Re:Harsh by facelessnumber · · Score: 1

      Yep, everything you said is right. I was defending the validity of a "Microsoft of the GIS industry" analogy though, which I doubt you'll disagree with.

      I whine and moan the same way a lot of people do. ESRI has a huge following, but their users aren't like Macintosh people. Everyone I know who uses ESRI software does so because it's the only option for what they do. (Or, yes, the best option) As GIS software, their stuff is great and functional. Probably the best under most scenarios. But as software it is never more than beta quality at best! In their market, that's okay for them. They can get away with it because the competition is either not good enough or not easy enough to use.

      Could you ever see Adobe staying on top of their market if they had released the last few verions of Photoshop in the kind of ragged condition that ESRI lets past their door?

      ESRI does suck less than everyone else, but they still suck, and more than a software company of that size ought to.

  4. Summary fails to mention primary open source GIS. by theapodan · · Score: 3, Informative

    GRASS http://grass.itc.it/ is the primary open source GIS solution. The summary could have at least mentioned it in passing.

    Odd that they mention AutoDesk too, considering their mapping software doesn't feature as nice spatial analysis stuff as ArcGIS does, although I haven't used it enough to make any other conclusions about it.

    Now if GRASS would only improve their text interface and revamp their GUI.

    Another critical open source GIS application for webmaps is MapServer http://mapserver.gis.umn.edu/

    I've found that doing the data analysis with ArcGIS and displaying it with mapserver is the only way to go. ArcIMS is a bit too complex, at least compared to mapserver.

  5. Re:Summary fails to mention primary open source GI by eggegg · · Score: 1

    Um, if you mean the excellent summary article mentioned, GRASS is item number one.

    That said, GRASS could be as powerful as Almighty God, but most people would never get past what is surely the worst user-interface known to man. C'mon guys, fix the damn thing already.

  6. One thing I've found missing in FOSS by hey! · · Score: 1

    aside from a user interface that doesn't make ordinary users scream in agony, is a geocoding engine. You put "123 Maple Street, Anytown, OH" and get coordinates. Pretty essential to the google maps kind of functionality, although for lots of stuff like store locaters you can go with zip code or town centroids.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:One thing I've found missing in FOSS by rpresser · · Score: 1

      Geocoding isn't hard. It just takes about 50 lines of code combined with a decent streets database. Add PostGIS to your postgres streets database and you can even easily geocode intersections like "43rd And Pine Streets".

      But, the only public domain streets database is the TIGER data, several years old already. However, ESRI does make it publicly available in shapefile format, ready for importing to postgres.

      Maybe I've found a new project to start. Or at least a HOWTO to write.

    2. Re:One thing I've found missing in FOSS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://geocoder.us/ -- an open source service and cpan module that works off the public domain TIGER dataset. This project also has a module that just parses a US address string into the component parts that you could use along with roads data in a PostreSQL/PostGIS database to do the actual geocoding. Also using PL/Perl in PostgreSQL it is easy to parse the addresses through a set of regular expression searches and an alias table mapping things like R(OA)?D=>RD, AVE?(NUE)=>AVE. etc.

      The problem with geocoding is a primarily a data problem not a software problem. It costs a lot to get good roads data like what you get from Navteq or the like.

    3. Re:One thing I've found missing in FOSS by rpresser · · Score: 1

      Thank you! It's a shame you posted as AC; your information is very useful.

  7. OK, but it's not as easy as you make it sound by hey! · · Score: 1

    Well, sure, it's not hard to do if your standards of accuracy and peformance aren't very high, but people do put addresses in all kinds of odd ways. For example the same address can be "125 Joe Shmoe Highway W" or "125 State Highway 19B" or "125 Rt 19 Bypass". It gets even more fun when you have spanglish and franglish addresses as are common in some parts of the country "123B Calle de Ingenieros Locos North".

    You can force the user to put things into different fields, like this:

    Street Number:
    Prefix Direction:
    Prefix Type:
    Name:
    Suffix Type:
    Suffix Direction:
    Postal: code

    But it would be really nice (as some commercial geocoding products do) to parse an address string into it's components, and provide a combination of standardizing and distance matching services on top of those. If you could keep a list of synonyms (probably postGIS!) you'd be waaay head.

    Maybe I've found a new project to start.

    If you're serious, I'd contribute.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  8. ESRI the Microsoft of GIS? If Only! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Microsoft treats its developers and resellers well. ESRI exploits them. We once had a lead we worked into a pretty significant sale, but there was one item on the list that we didn't have a price for. So we called ESRI and found out that policy said that quotes that included the product had to come direct from ESRI. We were told that if we sent them the lead, we'd get a commision. So, later we follow up with the customer, and they have all their goodies. So we call the ESRI manager we'd talked to, and asked about our commission. He said that he changed his mind about it, because we hadn't really done enough work to justify a commission. Needless to say we never sent a lead to ESRI again.

    Their behavior is similar or even worse from the developer end of things. They literally say things like, "You have to understand that we'll be your business partner and your toughest competitor -- at the same time." Of course this is absurd. If you're smart, you'll realize this means you'll never make a significant profit on a product.

    Of course, in a way you have to expect this from any company. Microsoft does it too. The difference is Microsoft crushes its partners when they become strategic issues; ESRI does it for short term disadvantage. The sense I have is that their cut-throat culture is even more deeply rooted than Microsoft's. The people I know who work for MS are, by in large pretty happy. The people I know who work for ESRI always strike me as a bit nervous.

  9. Re:Summary fails to mention primary open source GI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "primary open source GIS solution"

    You're in sales, aren't you? Only people in sales (and maybe high-level executives who don't really know what they're talking about) use the word "solution" in such a manner.

  10. Re:Summary fails to mention primary open source GI by Rich+Gibson · · Score: 1

    GRASS UI - You can now run the beautiful QGIS on top of GRASS, which gives you the best of both worlds.

    The posters who mention the GRASS user interface neglect to mention that the prime GRASS UI is the unix shell. You can do _anything_ that GRASS can do within shell scripts, or python or perl, etc.

    This also means that your scripting language has the power of the full UNIX tool chain philosophy.

    The new GRASS Vector model also rocks, very hard, and you have full connectivity to PostGIS-the geospatial extensions to PostgreSQL that also rock, very hard.

  11. Re:One thing I've found missing in FOSS - Geocoder by Rich+Gibson · · Score: 1

    There is the free http://geocoder.us/ web site that uses the Geo::Coder::US perl module.

    The perl module is free software, and the Tiger data that it uses is also free.

    The Geocoder.us web site runs this module to do lookups for non-profits for free (commercial use of the web site is not free-but you are welcome to download the code and the data and do it yourself for free).

    As a note: The full census data when loaded into Postgis is something like 40 gb, and is dog slow. Refractions is working (or was working) on a pure SQL geocoder. The Geo::Coder::US version uses Berkeley DB files and is about 800 mb.