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OpenBSD's Alpha Support In Trouble

Posted by timothy on from the check-your-server-closet dept.

Nimrangul writes "Hours ago Theo de Raadt put out a call for an Alpha CS20, because as of last night OpenBSD no longer has one. The CS20 that died was a build machine and without it further support for the Alpha platform would be nearly impossible. If you have a C320 or other 1U Alpha machine that you would be willing to donate to the project, please respond to the discussion on the misc mailing list."

76 comments

  1. No one cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1
    1. Re:No one cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      it's not so much insightful as just true.... with the exception of the story poster I guess...

  2. So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    No more support for an OS nobody uses on a platform that nobody uses. OK then.

    ::ducks::

  3. Heh by Otter · · Score: 4, Informative
    In the next message, Matt R offers to buy one on EBay but it looks like he got sniped. (BTW, "current high bidder" has the best EBay nick I've ever seen.)

    I wish them luck, but this has to give pause to anyone who wants to place a heavy bet on the continued availability of OpenBSD/Alpha -- if it can get wiped out because they can't get a specific piece of legacy hardware to fit Theo's rack!

    --
    What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
    1. Re:Heh by Nimrangul · · Score: 3, Informative
      There are more, though mostly driveless, Alphas on eBay.

      Heck, looks like there is an exact same modeled unit for sale for the next 4 days from the same people.

      --
      I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
    2. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      oh man. i really want a piece like this. unfortunately in europe they are much more expensive, even on ebay. it would be very cool if somebody of you could buy this alpha on ebay for me and then send it to belgium where i live. plz contact me for bank details! thanks, thats really cool!

    3. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anonymous Coward, as the most prolific poster on Slashdot, I think it might be wise if you don't spread your bank information around. It could be very bad for your balance.

    4. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hi - yes the first one had small text that says (more available) - I don't know if that is a ebay feature or if the seller did it.

      But the CS20 was the pinnacle of consumer level compute density - the had 2 (!) alpha's in 1U. This is the model:
      http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item =5789058803&category=1479&ssPageName=WDVW&rd=1

      The funny thing was, I was bidding on those before the story broke. I've had my "nick" for a number of years and I like it - nice and generic :)

    5. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hello,

      I represent the family of the deposed king of Nigeria. I have a significant amount of cash that I need moved to the United States. Won't you please help me? You are my only hope!

    6. Re:Heh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      uh, he lives in belgium, so he can't help you ;o

  4. Temperature by OrangeSpyderMan · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Last night something went wrong temperature wise in my machine room.
    One of the build alphas is now dead.

    I think Theo should also ask for aircon. I'm willing to help but 1U boxes tend to get hot, and I see no point in all chipping in for a new Alpha box to see it go pop again in 2 weeks time. Theo, tell us what went wrong and what you've done to fix it or what we can do to help you fix it. Then we can worry about replacing the hardware - otherwise I think it's probably just as well to ask for Alpha hardware and rackspace in a reliable colo as send the hardware back to the same place.

    --
    Try NetBSD... safe,straightforward,useful.
    1. Re:Temperature by Cecil · · Score: 3, Funny

      Maybe it spontaneously got 10 degrees cooler when the Alpha shut down. ;)

      --
      Random and weird software I've written.
    2. Re:Temperature by pdokj · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      Don't be an idiot. He has a several-thousand-dollar commercial-grade AC unit in there.

    3. Re:Temperature by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      I'd be happy to donate a working pc164lx board; if they take it... and if theo werent such a putz...

  5. Uh-oh. by dougmc · · Score: -1, Offtopic
    ... that's going to put a serious kink in the plans of both of the people using the Alpha NetBSD port!

    :)

    Seriously though, how many people use NetBSD on Alpha machines? I have an Alpha machine in the garage, but haven't used it in years. (Sorry, it's not 1U, and much slower than what they had.)

    (Actually, are there any figures on how many systems are running NetBSD at all available? I haven't run it in a very long time, having discovered that it's just easier to use x86 boxes and run FreeBSD and Linux on them.)

    1. Re:Uh-oh. by MichaelSmith · · Score: 3, Informative
      Seriously though, how many people use NetBSD on Alpha machines?

      the netbsd-alpha list is pretty busy. I unsubscribed when I sold my alphas because I didn't need the mail traffic.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    2. Re:Uh-oh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ummm, I may have a hard time reading, but I am pretty sure the story is talking about OpenBSD's Alpha support, not NetBSDs.

    3. Re:Uh-oh. by Geekboy(Wizard) · · Score: 2, Informative

      Why would NetBSD care?

      This is OpenBSD.

    4. Re:Uh-oh. by dougmc · · Score: 2, Insightful
      but I am pretty sure the story is talking about OpenBSD's Alpha support, not NetBSDs.
      Heh. You would seem to be right. Not sure how I got NetBSD into my head.

      OpenBSD would be another matter entirely. It actually sees some signifignat use ...

    5. Re:Uh-oh. by The+Nine · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I find it amusing that you'd suggest nobody uses NetBSD at a time when the front page of slashdot carries a link to a quaterly NetBSD report mentioning seven new developers, seven google "Summer of Code" projects and a number of donations from both individuals and corporations.

      Just because we don't make such a song and dance over it doesn't mean we don't exist.

    6. Re:Uh-oh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Task reports are boring, have you actually considered doing a song and dance?

      It would probably get you the spotlight much better, maybe even as well as OpenBSD's music does.

      Oh, the HFS+ rag,
      It's such a drag.
      We're coding all night,
      Trying hard to get it right.

      We're doing the HFS+,
      Oh yeah the HFS+,
      That crazy HFS+ rag!!!

      Then maybe:

      The zeroconf shuffle,
      We're working on the double.
      It's not quite so easy,
      Making configuration easy.

      Yeah, that zeroconf shuffle,
      It's going ta save ya trouble,
      So, we're doing the zeroconf shuffle!

      Yeah!

      Yeah, that would really get yas in the news.

    7. Re:Uh-oh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a pc164 that's part of pool.ntp.org running as a stratum 1 ntp server.
      So that's at least one :-)

    8. Re:Uh-oh. by The+Nine · · Score: 1

      Task reports may be boring (to some), but if nobody was using NetBSD, it's doubtful such reports would be issued.

      I'm a big fan of the OpenBSD release songs (and OpenBSD itself is very nice), and it'd be great if NetBSD could offer something similar, but I don't really see it as a priority. I wouldn't really care if nobody ever heard of NetBSD, so long as it stayed as awesome as it is and I could keep using it.

    9. Re:Uh-oh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, apparently, it won't 'stay awesome' because they're drowning in a sea of red ink. Apparently their financial forecast has taken a sharp down-turn due to the fact that it turns out that their hosting provider doesn't accept foodstamps.

    10. Re:Uh-oh. by hubertf · · Score: 2, Informative

      Which is, of course, absolute nonsense.

      FYI, NetBSD is mostly hosted by ISC, which doesn't charge hosting fees. NetBSD also runs its own colocated servers for all important servers and services. And for the financial situation in general, NetBSD is a volunteer Open Source product with no commercial backing. As such there is some need for money (mostly for running the above-mentioned machines to provide decent service), but so far this was covered fine by donations. Of course this shouldn't keep back any megacorporations lurking around here to donate a few gigabucks, I sure have some ideas on how to spend them. :)

      In short, I don't know what you're pulling out of your nose here... maybe think again before posting if you have nothing important to say.

      - Hubert

    11. Re:Uh-oh. by Nimrangul · · Score: 1

      I think he was trying to be funny, you know, cause the troll keeps talking about red ink and death and such.

      --
      I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
    12. Re:Uh-oh. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

      What I'm talking about is this post where the NetBSD team is begging for funds because they have one foot in the grave. Excuse me, my bad; we're talking about BSD, obviously they have both feet in the grave!

      Time to face facts, their are only so many employed c64 users who need a unix for their commoders. The handwriting may not be on the wall for the corporately sponsored FreeBSD or for the privately funded OpenBSD, but it certainly is for Net "runs on everything too old to care about" BSD.

  6. Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    Why ask for hardware when you can crosscompile :)
    Would be hard to get releases for >50 different hardware platforms built otherwise...

    1. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative
      Cross-platform compiling does not ensure that the software actually works.

      If you want to be sure something works properly you have to have the hardware it is supposed to be working on and test to see if it works on it.

      NetBSD's setup does not actually make sure everything works, it makes sure it compiles under fake hardware.

      That's how NetBSD's support for some platforms got so bad.

    2. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Luke+Mewburn · · Score: 5, Interesting
      NetBSD's setup does not actually make sure everything works, it makes sure it compiles under fake hardware.

      That's how NetBSD's support for some platforms got so bad.

      That last sentence is wrong!

      Native compiling on a [slow] platform doesn't test that "everything works" for that platform, just that the native compiler generates some code on a given model. This is especially relevant for platforms with a diverse range of hardware, including Alpha.

      Cross-compiling on a fast platform reduces the turn-around time for providing software to test on slower platforms. (Why wait a week for a build to compile when you cross-compile in an hour?). The NetBSD cross-build framework offers other benefits such as allowing build an entire OS release (including install media) without requiring root privileges or fancy OS support such as loopback disk drivers. More details in my BSDCon 03 talk and build.sh paper.

      Either build method does not remove the need for actually testing the resulting build on the variety of hardware available for a given platform. That is a separate and more important issue.

      (Why do [AC] fanboys of some operating systems belittle functionality that their OS doesn't currently have, only to about-face and shout to the rooftops when they finally get it?)

    3. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Luke, I love your ftp client, but I disagree.

      The lack of actual compiling on your fringe hardware is why the support for it is so bad.

      While it is true that it can be compiled faster on other hardware, that doesn't mean that the machine itself can compile it's own copy of the operating system.

      If my machine cannot compile it's an operating system supposedly designed for it, there is a problem with the code and most likely how it works.

      Cross compiling can be handy for speedy development, but not quality development. That's where the actual hardware comes in.

    4. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, your argument doesn't make sense for me.
      At development stage, cross compiling makes the development really faster.
      And at test phase, you can just compile the opreating system by the target system itself.
      There is nothing which prevents this test phase in cross compilation
      It seems you are just confusing the distinction of host system and target system.

    5. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

      Do you have any tangible proof that the support is bad, or are you simply trolling? Given the vague nature of your claims and the absurdity of what you blame them on, I tend to think you're full of shit.

    6. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by obirt · · Score: 1
      This argument is so beyond rediculous and obviously a troll. Whoever modded it up should have moderator privledges permantently revoked.

      "If my machine cannot compile an operating system supposedly designed for it..." and it compiles fine on a cross compiler... there's a bug in GCC. NetBSD doesn't write GCC, so therefore the NetBSD cross compile framework is at fault. Ah I see, your logic makes perfect sense!

      By your logic no current operating system could exist since the code would have to be initially cross compiled on some other architecture or written on the target from scratch in assembly. Good luck with that.

      --

      I use to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure.
    7. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Initial starts on other platforms make perfect sense, but how many of NetBSDs platforms can self build?

      I'm not some hardcore programmer, but I am going to agree with the obvious troll, if you're not compiling something native regularly then you're not ensuring that things work the way they should. Running a non-native programme will not be the same as running a native.

      I just cannot make the assumption that cross compiling is infalible, the hardware is guaranteed to work the way the hardware will work and thus it makes more sense to me to do a native build of your systems.

    8. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by oldwolf13 · · Score: 1

      maybe learn what compiling actually does.

      it generates a bunch of bits into files... the bits are the same AS LONG AS THE COMPILER IS THE SAME on all systems.

      It doesn't run any of these bits so it doesn't NEED to have the build target hardware.

      What you're saying is akin to saying a text file written in vi on one system won't be the same as writing a text file on a different arch system.

      --
      If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
    9. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Homology · · Score: 2, Interesting
      maybe learn what compiling actually does.

      it generates a bunch of bits into files... the bits are the same AS LONG AS THE COMPILER IS THE SAME on all systems.

      It doesn't run any of these bits so it doesn't NEED to have the build target hardware.

      There was a recent thread about cross compiling on OpenbSD misc@. Perhaps this one summarize it nicely :

      Re: Cross-Compiling OpenBSD

      From: Artur Grabowski (artblahonga.org)
      Date: Tue Jul 12 2005 - 09:11:01 CDT

      * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]

      Brett Lymn <blymnbaesystems.com.au> writes:

      > > ASSUMING YOU EVER SEE IT.
      > > If you don't see a bug, you ship crap.
      > >
      >
      > That applies for both native and cross-built. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE
      > AN UNSEEN BUG MAY BE THERE REGARDLESS. It has happened in the past to
      > OpenBSD and it may just happen again.

      Seriously. You really don't see the correlation between using something
      and finding bugs? What planet are you from?

      //art
    10. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by oldwolf13 · · Score: 1

      The same thing could be said of compiling on the same arch as target... a bug could cause the compilation to be buggy as well.

      The SDK's for most consoles (and handhelds) are used with the compiler being on a different architecture then the targets. I'm not 100% sure but I don't think any console/handheld has a developer system of the same architecture as the target.

      Now I know they compile different things then a computer, but the point is still valid.

      --
      If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
    11. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Nimrangul · · Score: 2, Insightful
      I consider the Zaurus a handheld, the OpenBSD people develope for it on it.

      Or is it a computer to you?

      --
      I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
    12. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by oldwolf13 · · Score: 1

      Sorry I meant handheld gaming systems like the PSP, DS, gameboy, etc.

      Wasn't even thinking of cel phones or pdas.

      However, I am surprised they develop code for it on the actual system.

      --
      If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
    13. Re:Get the cross compiling from NetBSD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't understand it. The alpha code is not developed on another platform. Only the releases are compiled on another platform.

  7. PEDOPHILE NECROPHILIAC NIGGERS CARE! FUCK YOU! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll


    Where else will PEDOPHILE NECROPHIALIC NIGGERS go for all their OpenBSD/Alpha needs? Huh, crackka? I'm talking to you!! Go rape a kindergardener AGAIN!!

  8. Thermostat-Initiated Shutdowns? by cjsnell · · Score: 3, Insightful


    Given the amount of equipment in Theo's server room and given the importance of this equipment to the project, why not construct a thermal shutdown device? How about a machine with a number of temperature probes around various points in the room, and when they all agree that the temperature is hot, they initiate shutdown+power-off procedures on the machines in the room? Now, I realize that some of the machines in the rack are older and may not have self-power-off abilities but it seems likely that enough of them could power down to make a difference.

  9. Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look at the keyboard in Theo's rack.

    Anyone know where I can find a keyboard like that? Been looking for one just like it for months now.

    1. Re:Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by Nimrangul · · Score: 4, Informative
      You mean one of these?

      You can get one for 54.95 $ from Fentek Industries, Inc. 470 S. Main Street, Suite G, Post Office Box 2278, Cottonwood, Arizona, 86326 USA. Shipping and handeling extra of course, state taxes may apply, duty fees may apply, void in Quebec and Tennessee.

      They actually have a few of them, check it out. And next time, use google for the words "mini keyboard".

      --
      I'm sick of following my dreams - I'm just going to ask them where they're going and hook up with them later.
    2. Re:Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by Suppafly · · Score: 1

      The one at the bottom of the pic is an imac keyboard.. I got mine from a place where no one wanted them and swapped them for fullsize ones.

      I imagine you could get one off ebay pretty easily.

    3. Re:Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by Suppafly · · Score: 1

      Is there actually one of those in the picture? The only keyboard I see in the picture is the imac one at the bottom.

    4. Re:Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by nacturation · · Score: 1

      Is there actually one of those in the picture? The only keyboard I see in the picture is the imac one at the bottom.

      Look at the base of the monitor -- white keyboard, fairly small.

      --
      Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
    5. Re:Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by 680x0 · · Score: 1

      Look in front of the monitor (near the top of the rack on the left).

    6. Re:Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by Suppafly · · Score: 1

      oh thanks, don't know how i missed that.

    7. Re:Offtopic: Keyboard in Theo's rack. by Suppafly · · Score: 1

      oh thanks, I totally missed it when I was looking.

  10. Impossible by Atlantic+Wall · · Score: -1, Offtopic

    It is impossible to think that a great project like openbsd is in so much dire need of money and equipment. I cant count how many friends of mine use an opebsd firewall to secure their network. i wish i could donate something to help, other than time, money or an alpha, since i have none. but i guess moral support will have to do. Wht the heck is the US govt. not using this OS anyway?????

    --
    To Hell with the Queen of England!
    1. Re:Impossible by setagllib · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      I may be mistaken, but larger institutions (e.g. a government datacenter) will be using hardcore SMP with terrifying amounts of RAM and disk space, and yet OpenBSD doesn't yet scale up that high. They're forced to use Linux just because it 1) is free AND 2) scales really well, at the same time. This is not a popular combination.

      FreeBSD >=5 is meant to be able to compete, but I haven't heard many success stories personally. I imagine OpenBSD with its giant lock definitely wouldn't be able to compete in terms of SMP, and without a journalling file system, the super-reliability needs might not be met.

      To be really honest though, most exploits against Linux do still happen in the userland (not that the kernel doesn't have its exploits: they're just usually fixed sooner and are harder to exploit), and there you can just port fixes from OpenBSD or find more clever ways of tightening every last bolt. So the security of a super-scalable Linux datacenter could be practically comparable to an OpenBSD machine, without losing the value of your hardware (which is easily up in the millions).

      But DragonFly BSD is hoping to be suitable for super-scalable tasks without compromising security, and while it's not quite there yet (at least in that its only native port is x86), it should be soon enough. If corporations and governments don't consider BSD *then*, there's really something wrong.

      Of course this is all just servers. For desktops (that still need healthy security) the BSDs are more than suitable, yet their use is mysteriously overlooked. But I suppose if there's a Linux distribution which does decent QA without remaining in the dark ages, it could be not-too-bad itself.

      --
      Sam ty sig.
    2. Re:Impossible by setagllib · · Score: 1

      Yes, because a post answering an off-topic post must be even more off-topic than the post it answers. I hate Slashdot moderators.

      --
      Sam ty sig.
    3. Re:Impossible by csirac · · Score: 1

      Ugh... "without a journalling file system, the super-reliability needs might not be met."

      IIRC, there was a lot of discussion about OpenBSD's filesystem a while back.

      Moral of the story: OpenBSD's scheme *guarantees* reliability, data integrity at ALL times, whereas journalled ext3 doesn't (or something)....

      You've missed the whole point of OpenBSD...
      1) It's code is obsessively analysed for flaws, and is made to be absolutely as correct as possible
      2) As a result of this, it is RELIABLE
      3) As a result of this, it is SECURE

      Something which cannot be said of most Linux distros, not to the same degree of consistent quality.

      It's all about choosing the right tool for the job. Forgive my arrogance if my assumption here is wrong, but from this: " and there you can just port fixes from OpenBSD" ... it seems you don't have much experience or knowledge with OpenBSD or the "server scene" at all.

    4. Re:Impossible by csirac · · Score: 1

      Okay, I'm a retard... didn't see the original post you were answering to... stupid mods ;)

    5. Re:Impossible by setagllib · · Score: 1

      OpenBSD is just code. A GNU/Linux distro is just code. Exploits happen in code. If you want to fix an exploit, you fix code. Exploits can be removed by fixing code. I KNOW OpenBSD is hardcore in security, but if you want a Linux distro to be secure, you can go through and audit all of its code. OpenBSD is not looked over by the Gods of security: it's still code. It has had exploits.

      My point is that a lot of servers do NOT need perfect OpenBSD-like security, they need realistic security against any reasonable chance of attack. They DO need high performance and scalability, which OpenBSD does not yet provide (don't even argue: giant lock SMP). If I was running a low-end secure server, it'd be OpenBSD (or more likely Net or DFly). If I was running a 128-way SMP machine, it would pretty much have to be Linux or maybe Solaris. It's a tough world but there are horses for courses. And that's all I'm saying, so don't assume I'm flaming OpenBSD's security.

      --
      Sam ty sig.
    6. Re:Impossible by csirac · · Score: 1

      I realise (now) you were replying to an offtopic post... as I said elsewhere, I'm a retard.

      The context I didn't realise your post was relating to was government stuff. Large NUMA/SSI/cluster setups. To which your sentiments are mostly justified.

      However, I don't know about you, but I'm only doing less than 1000 lines of C++ refactored into ISO-C on my current project (long story). All the SLOC in apps that are used on a server... would number in the hojillions.

      An admin simply doesn't have the time or patience to "audit" the source for the apps used in his/her own site. Much less understand the code they are looking at to be able to even begin auditing it.

      How good are you at reading other's code? How well is all this userland code written?

      Much less correct it, compile it, test/manage defect regressions, test and deploy modified versions. And commit the changes back. If an admin can do all this, what are they doing in an admin job? 99% of admins use off-the-shelf software, the most they might modify their apps is perhaps applying patches to source. Their programming is mostly in Perl/Python/Ruby/Bash/sh scripts.

      Yes, you *could* find user-land OpenBSD patches and back-port them to a rusty Linux distro, but then your security can only at best match OpenBSD's.

      Who is going to set up a team to audit code in a Linux distro? Who is going to decide *WHAT* to audit? Most distros are too diverse, OpenBSD gives you a very finite set of userland apps that have been audited... and it's the only feasible way, given their resources and the level of quality they commit to apps that they do look after.

      When we start talking about "we could audit the Linux code instead", well we could in fact just take the Linux 2.2 kernel and patch it up to work with AMD64 couldn't we... but people don't because we have Linux 2.6.

      I will admit most servers don't "need" OpenBSD-like security, but I'm sure you'll agree that most small to mid sized businesses where OSS usage is booming also don't need 128-way SMP boxen.

      Perhaps the businesses I've looked after were too small, and tell the truth I've only ever used Linux for internal stuff (now looking into OpenBSD for some sites that want web exposure)... but even a basic "server" hardware package for sub-20 workstation sites spends a lot of time idling...

      Anyway, it's late... I need to learn more OpenBSD...

    7. Re:Impossible by setagllib · · Score: 1

      All very valid points. I know there are some kernel-end security patches for Linux that give it some of OpenBSD's features, but I've had lousy luck keeping them running for more than a week, and they've usually been more for preventing local exploit than exploits in the kernel itself. I don't know if there are similar projects for a secure base-system userland though.

      On a related note, DragonFly BSD is in the process of having its SMP bugs fixed, and afterwards will hopefully get wider testing on higher-end SMP systems. It's still only x86, but there are still numerous targets out there where it could be used in place of a Linux rig. And their devotion to security and good practices is impressive too: in my talks with devs via IRC, everything was about doing something cleanly, performantly, securely, and Rightly, not just getting it done fast to compete with somebody else.

      --
      Sam ty sig.
  11. *BSD is dying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

    One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be a Kreskin to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

    FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    Fact: *BSD is dying

  12. Requiem for the FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll
    // Please *don't* mod this up. It has already been done! Thx

    ... facts are facts. ;)

    FreeBSD:
    FreeBSD, Stealth-Growth Open Source Project (Jun 2004)
    "FreeBSD has dramatically increased its market penetration over the last year."
    Nearly 2.5 Million Active Sites running FreeBSD (Jun 2004)
    "[FreeBSD] has secured a strong foothold with the hosting community and continues to grow, gaining over a million hostnames and half a million active sites since July 2003."
    What's New in the FreeBSD Network Stack (Sep 2004)
    "FreeBSD can now route 1Mpps on a 2.8GHz Xeon whilst Linux can't do much more than 100kpps."

    NetBSD:
    NetBSD, for When Portability and Stability Matter (Oct 2004)
    NetBSD sets Internet2 Land Speed World Record (May 2004)
    NetBSD again sets Internet2 Land Speed World Record (Sep 2004)

    OpenBSD:
    OpenBSD Widens Its Scope (Nov 2004)
    Review: OpenBSD 3.6 shows steady improvement (Nov 2004)
    OpenSSH (OpenBSD subproject) has become a de facto Internet standard.

    *BSD in general:
    Deep study: The world's safest computing environment (Nov 2004)
    "The world's safest and most secure 24/7 online computing environment - operating system plus applications - is proving to be the Open Source platform of BSD (Berkeley Software Distribution) and the Mac OS X based on Darwin."
    BSD Success Stories (O'Reilly, 2004) (pdf) ~ from Onlamp BSD DevCenter
    "The BSDs - FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD, Darwin, and others - have earned a reputation for stability, security, performance, and ease of administration."
    ..and last but not least, we have the cutest mascot as well - undisputedly. ;)

    --
    Being able to read *other people's* source code is a nice thing, not a 'fundamental freedom'.

    1. Re:Requiem for the FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Surprisingly, this story has been relatively troll free.

  13. happy hacking kbd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there is also another kind besides the one the other guy mentioned. The one I have is called the "happy hacking" keyboard. They are great if you are in unix but you will have problems in doze, especially w/ microsoft apps like visual studio which use the Function keys a lot.

  14. Alpha by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    This isnt a troll, ( though it may sound like it ) but is the alpha port really that important now?

    In its day alpha was the king of the hill, but in this day of dirt cheap ix86, is the alpha worth spending time on?

    Sure if what you got works, dont toss it out.. But why beat it with a stick if its dead?

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Alpha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      It's kinda like this in my mind; would you rather have the closed source operating syetem made for this strange hardware you got at the foreclosure sale that is never going to be updated again and likely take forever to find? Or a series of choices in what you can run on that strange piece of archaia?

      Honestly, I think it better to try to keep a few operating systems running on the older architectures as something of a public service to people that are still made to use them.

      Eventually the platforms may actually die out, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be something to run on the ones still available. I'd go nuts if my dozen or so 586s didn't have something I could run on them, I mean, it's just be a waste to throw away working hardware like that.

    2. Re:Alpha by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Informative

      alpha chips were made into 2003, so it's not been dead that long

    3. Re:Alpha by Lucractius · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Well Yes and No.

      For a start Check ebay. Alpha is KING. You dont see 10 year old x86 machines selling for hundreds of dollars do you. Want to know why. Cause 10 year old X86 machines suck. For the price of 4 (absolutely striped to the core components) x86s you can get 1 alpha. That can take More CPUs, More Ram, More reliable hot swap frigging everything, Built with the kind of quality you see in an IBM model M keyboard (not a lexmark one :P ) And Your Alpha will happily run forever. The uptime records out there are held by a heritiage of machines that passes down through the alpha and sadly.. ends there. thers no next gen... hell they didnt need one... The alpha CPUs hp ships now were designed back round 2000 and have been sitting waiting for the manufacturing to catch up. ANd they beat the Iatanium even though theyve been on the shelf that long.

      Its to much to just explain in a slashdot post.

      The alpha is one of THE fundamental architectures that holds up the under time.

      I morn its loss as do many others. Its important that this be kept alive even if just to stab at intel for shipping an inferior over priced POS to replace it purely because of 10 years of corporate wheeling and dealing utterly blind to the actualy day to day operation of 4 of the IT industries biggest companies.

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
    4. Re:Alpha by Tandoori+Haggis · · Score: 1

      It just isn't fair. DEC were great pioneers.Then they were bought, asset stripped and killed off.

      From what I understand the ONLY disadvantage of the Alpha is its power consumption.

      From what I understand the disadvantages of the Itanium include power consumption and architecture.

      I nearly bought an Alpha EV6 from E-Bay.

      DEC engineers always impressed me.

      --
      My hyperlinks aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
  15. Re:PEDOPHILE NECROPHILIAC NIGGERS CARE! FUCK YOU! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1, Troll

    Huh cracka think ur so big u taek ur ass over here and i`ll be like yeah bitch slap slap you like that and you go ooooh yes yes please gie it to me up the bum and then you turn around and I stick my huge cock in your mouth and you say mmbmmmpm and you suck it because ur a whore and that gets you hot so i cum in ur mouth and u swallow it and say yum yum please let me have more an i say no u r to lame to have more cuz your gay and you say yes im a gay faggot who plays meat flute and then i bring my dad and you suck his old dickand then i bring my brothers and you suck their dicks and then i bring ur father and he sees you suck all the dicks and he says ur gay and you need to suck harder and he sticks his cock in ur mouth and walks u thru the prosedyr and u say thx for coming in my mouth dad and u gargle it and i get my grandfather and you suck his cock and say it tastess yum and you want more but there are no more cocks on the planet for you to suck so you suck your own but u dont have a dick cus you cut it off becus ur such a faggot and you go hang yourselv becuaus ur tummy hurts from drinking so much cum and u die and when you go to hell for being suck a fag satan says lick my pussy and you lick satans pussy and u hate it becuaus its not a dick and u cry and cry. SO THERE!

  16. *This* would be a Troll? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice job, mod..

    Either you are very honest, or you know very well what "Troll" means.. :/

  17. I did by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

    Ran NetBSD for 3 years straight on an PC164 motherboard. Worked flawlessly until I moved and ditched it for a hardware router.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  18. Vax, etc by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    The same basic thing can be said about a lot of the older stuff..

    But more often then not, price will win out. As i suggested..( or we wouldnt even be here talking about it )

    Us PPC users are going to have to go thru the same thing soon im afraid. ( tho at least for a while we will still see those chips on servers and such )

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
    1. Re:Vax, etc by Lucractius · · Score: 1

      Yeah. I feel saddend to say that the company policy for apple on unsold items isnt storage or warehousing for support customer needs. Its Scortched earth. They Crush them, brand new in boxes and they go into an industrial crusher. :(

      the only glimmer of hope resides in IBM realy. They are pushing PPC based things everywhere. So it has some life out there :) Just not in Shiny Dual G5 PowerMacs :(

      --
      XML - A clever joke would be here if /. didn't mangle tag brackets.
  19. This is on topic! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *BSD is dying. (Well, this machine did.)

    Sorry. Someone had to say it. :-)

  20. I'm a BSD user but I have to say... by mrkitty · · Score: 1

    OpenBSD Alpha is dying!

    --
    Believe me, if I started murdering people, there would be none of you left.
  21. to bad he needs an 1u by sydres · · Score: 1

    I got a 433au with eight gigs of raid and 128 ecc sdram