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An IT Infrastructure for Automotive Manufacturing?
papa248 asks: "I have moved into a Launch Project Manager position within my company. The business is with automotive component manufacturing in a Just-In-Time scale, located in the heart of the Motor City. My job will be to facilitate the setup of IT systems in a new assembly plant. This would be office systems, customer broadcast (parts are sequenced so they arrive at the OEM to match a particular vehicle's VIN), shop floor systems for robotic control, PLCs for error-proofing, lot traceability, the whole nine yards. The company (large, Fortune 500) has some very specific specifications for office systems (HP hardware, Windows, Office, etc) but leaves lots of opportunity for the actual production systems. I've been burned in the past because my predecessors have used 'turnkey' solutions from some lesser known, local vendors that write such custom, specific code on ridiculous, non standard PCs and hardware. I'm in a jam right now, because I've got tons of NT4 systems with a semi-custom OS and VB 6 code on it that are literally falling apart. What are your suggestions for setting up manufacturing control systems that leave the flexibility to be upgradeable and redesignable without being locked in to one particular vendor or solution?"
Consider using a cross-platform language like Java. For upgrade-ability, you should write the applications/platforms as modularly as possible. Write once, run everywhere does have its merits.
Frink: Nice try floyd, but you were designed for scrubbing, and scrubbing is what you shall do.
From OSI Software.
- PLC's are notorius for having poorly written ethernet communications code. They can really screw up your network. We keep them on separate VLANs.
- Make sure your control software can talk to everything you need on the plant floor.
- OPC compliance can help, but it can be buggy. Make sure you test all components thouroughly.
- We had many custom VB6/VB5 programs running on NT. For those that could not be updated easily, or we did not have source code for, or were too expensive to upgrade, we moved them to VMWare ESX Server with the P2V assistant. It was a lifesaver.
- We use GEFanuc's product iFix for our HMI. There are many other similar products out there from many different vendors. Most of them have very restrictive and expensive licensing. iFix fit us the best at the time.
- We moved all of the old junk desktop/tower server machines to proper rack mount servers and virtual machines.
- Develop a good relationship with a good automation integrator. They can help you more than you think.
If you want specifics, feel free to email me.You want the solution? YOU WANT THE SOLUTION?!?! You can't handle the solution! 'Cause when you reach over and put your hand into a pile of goo - that used to be your best server, you'll know what to do!! Forget it man, it's Chinatown.
Make sure your control software can talk to everything you need on the plant floor.
Check out LabVIEW 8.0, just released three days ago.
If you have no clue, then you should BUY SOME CLUE by talking to a vendor.
"This mission is too important to allow you to jeopardize it." -- HAL
Post should be modded up, not down. Obviously this company is doomed if they are relying on some 22-year old flunky who soliciting the opinons of his freshmen cash register jock know-it-all internet pals who inhabit this site. You can see it now: "Hey boss, FrodoLives85 says Linux is the obvious choice for all manufacturing plants. I'm downloading Ubentoo right now!"
That being said, I found it strange that it didn't occur to my classmates to call Cisco for product advice on a network design project when the class was for CCNA, but then I passed the cert test on the first try. I understand I was the only one of that class to do it in one try, though I may simply have been the first to pass it.
Seriously, real time control systems on PLC's are going to be over your head. This part is not an IT solution, but an engineering solution. Call your local Rockwell dealer, and get an automation consultant in.
I was gonna say what you said, but you done beat me to it. If this guy needs to ask a question like that, he should be shot for mis-representing his skillz when he interviewed for the job
"While the submitter has every right to want the systems to be 'standard' PCs, The controller cards for talking to the PLCs are probably the only unique thing in the box. The controllers are expensive for a reason."
That depends. Most of the "it can kill" level stuff happens at the PLC, which is mounted either near the controlled equipment, or centralized in the equipment room. The higher level stuff the majority of the time is for monitoring.* And that's were the standard PC's come in.
*When it came to programming the PLC. We did that on a laptop in the equipment room...running on Windows.
What do you hope to get from here? There are three possible outcomes:-
/. and someone asks where you got your info. You get canned, demoted or otherwise removed from the project when you tell them.
/. and no-one asks where you got your info. Project fails. Someone asks where you got your info. You get canned or demoted when you tell them.
/. and no-one asks where you got your info. Project succeeds. You get credit. This is the best outcome, but let's face it, it's incredibly unlikely since you don't have the technical know-how to make it work.
1) You take advice from
2) You take advice from
3) You take advice from
More realistically, this is *exactly* what consultants are for. If you specify at the start that flexibility to be upgraded and non-vendor-specific are key requirements, then you'll get advice based on that specification. And a consultant doesn't have to do the work - outsourcing is not compulsory. If you think you can do the work once you've been pointed in the right direction (or hire a team who can do the work), then all you need the consultant for is to provide advice on which systems and architectures to choose.
Grab.
Because face it, you used more than enough big buzz words and even some actual details to pinpoint who you work for, to anyone in the same company.
In this Ask Slashdot posting, you made many mistakes:
1. You bloated your post with managerial and marketing buzzspeak. I had a damned annoying time wading through it.
2. You identified your lack of pre-existing knowledge to anyone who works with you, as well as your inability to mask it by not knowing who really to ask for help.
3. Only people who work for your competitors are in a position to help, so basically you are soliciting free help from your competitors.
4. Or, if not competitors, you are soliciting from consultants who previously worked for competitors who have information and experience they normally charge big bucks for, since it is specialized and not exactly common. Think they will provide it for free ? No! They know they have a damned good shot at your job!
Get an IBM iSeries (aka AS/400) and learn to program RPG code.
The Tools Of Ignorance wanna be a tool?
Was involved with a similar project but we were ripping out crappy Labview apps for a biological research company with lots of robots. Labview is initially easier but you get stuck after a while.
Tool selected was python
Boost Python (http://www.boost.org/libs/python/doc/) is a library for wrapping C++ libraries that already exist to make them accessible from Python. Includes the boost python library. A favorite for wrapping c++ code.
Swig (http://www.swig.org/) is another library for connecting C and C++
code with Python
ctypes http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/ctypes/
ctypes allows loading dlls/shared libs and calling functions in that lib.
PyInline (http://pyinline.sourceforge.net/) is a module which will allow
you to write methods inline in C.
Python can use COM or you can create COM objects. Make apps with simple web interfaces (Medusa) and webservices style interfaces. Also can check out jython etc.
LabView is great for instrumentation in a test lab, but on a factory floor it can kill someone.
Okay, serious question [or questions]:
Again, not a troll - I'm seriously curious as to what you might have to say.Any other plants in your company already up and running with a system like you are going to implment? If so use that.
If not I hope you have a big staff and or good vendors. Not being locked into a vendor means that you have to have your development staff in house.
Frankly you have not given me enough information to give you much help.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
for a corp during the dot com boom which used to sell the software for industrial controls ...(i've inherited all the code ironically).
anyway, we used to use java, xml and more java for doing pretty much everything with all the logic done using a custom written drag and drop java editor. if you want more info email me. im located pretty close to motor city btw. its NOT easy and if you find youre over your head -- thats kinda expected. it takes a lot getting used to -- i suggest calling a specialist in from one of the big PLC corps or hiring someone who has been there and done that. im pretty busy so i can only come in part time weekends if youre interested.