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Andrew Morton on Kernel Hacking

Posted by Hemos on from the smart-people-often-say-smart-things dept.

Susie Denmark writes "Linux Format has a brief interview with Andrew Morton, the maintainer of the Linux kernel 2.6 tree. Andrew discusses the debates behind revision control systems (the BitKeeper and CVS), new kernel features and his own -mm tree. Will the issue of using RCSes in the kernel tree ever die down? Does it really matter?"

46 comments

  1. He may be maintaining the 2.6 tree... by brilinux · · Score: 4, Funny

    But what does he know about 2.7!!??

    1. Re:He may be maintaining the 2.6 tree... by minginqunt · · Score: 1

      You should see what he's planning for Linux Vista.

      Transparent Kernel Modules in XML. W00t!

    2. Re:He may be maintaining the 2.6 tree... by slavemowgli · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually... he's not even maintaining 2.6. He's maintaining -mm, which is kind of like the development branch where patches get tested before being merged into mainline, but the vanilla 2.6 tree is maintained by Linus, and it doesn't look like that's going to change anytime soon.

      --
      quidquid latine dictum sit altum videtur.
    3. Re:He may be maintaining the 2.6 tree... by Shazow · · Score: 3, Informative
      Actually... he is maintaining the primary 2.6 tree, as well as his own -mm tree. At least as as I can tell from his bio and this ancient slashdot article:
      "Linus Torvalds has released his final 2.6.0-test kernel, calling it the 'Beaver In Detox'. Following this release, Linus says that 2.6 development will be led by Andrew Morton."


      More sources:

      Gentoo Kernel Doc:
      "Linux 2.6 is maintained by Andrew Morton, who works closely with Linus Torvalds to deliver a fast, powerful, and feature-packed Linux kernel. Development is happening at incredible pace and this kernel tree is now very mature."


      And, of course, THE GOOGLE QUERY (of doom).

      At the least, they're both maintaining it. Or something...

      - shazow
  2. Gittish by minginqunt · · Score: 5, Informative

    > Will the issue of using RCSes in the kernel tree ever die down?

    Um, yes. It did so three months ago. It's called git.

    1. Re:Gittish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      > Will the issue of using RCSes in the kernel tree ever die down?

      Um, yes. It did so three months ago. It's called git.

      Slashdot is for hystieric 08/15-users who like to get pimped to incompetent/stupid/PC opinions.
      Better go back to linux-kernel and leave this shit-house alone, dude.

    2. Re:Gittish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Will the issue of using RCSes in the kernel tree ever die down?
      Yes, but if we stop talking about in /.

  3. Wow by gowen · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'm suprised he finds the time, given the heavy load of muck raking biographies that he manages to write.

    --
    Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
    1. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very funny.
      I'm impressed.

    2. Re:Wow by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Funny

      You should take tips from him on time management.
      your personal homepage is dead. http://www.ma.man.ac.uk/~gowen/

      Yet Andrew manages to hold down a day job while researching and writing dozens of books about British celebrities.

      Less time posting on /. and browsing Amazon please.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:Wow by nurhussein · · Score: 1

      Not to mention he directed an obscure documentary about the New Zealand air force. He is truly a renaissance man. ;)

    4. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where did that URL come from? That hasn't been my homepage for 5 years

    5. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hear he had trouble finding the pilot.

    6. Re:Wow by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      http://www.gwowen.freeserve.co.uk/

      Then I clicked on the Home link at the bottom
      http://www.ma.man.ac.uk/~gowen/

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    7. Re:Wow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He seems to have a certain... fixation on Princess Diana and Madonna. I'd say there's roughly a 95% chance he's gay.

  4. rcs. by s4m7 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Will the issue of using RCSes in the kernel tree ever die down?

    It more or less has since they've replaced bitkeeper with git.

    Does it really matter?

    Well, it probably doesn't matter to you if you arent part of the tree-maintenance heirarchy, since individual developers don't need to use git directly to submit their patches, but the maintainers use them to keep track of who submitted what patches when, when they were merged, if they were tweaked etc. Many maintainers were uncomfortable with BitKeeper because it was a proprietary platform meaning that they could go out of buiness, revoke linus's liscence, or any number of other things could go wrong. That's exactly what happened and so git was created to replace it.

    using some kind of RCS/SCM solution is absolutely critical in a project as large as the linux kernel, if for no reason other than to have a history of where stuff came from. If they'd been using something from the get-go it would be a lot harder for SCO to make the claims that they have.

    --
    This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    1. Re:rcs. by paroneayea · · Score: 1

      Interesting.. the issue with bitkeeper always seemed to me that it was really non-free software. I've taken a look at GIT's COPYING file, and it looks like this:

      --

        Note that the only valid version of the GPL as far as this project
        is concerned is _this_ particular version of the license (ie v2, not
        v2.2 or v3.x or whatever), unless explicitly otherwise stated.

        HOWEVER, in order to allow a migration to GPLv3 if that seems like
        a good idea, I also ask that people involved with the project make
        their preferences known. In particular, if you trust me to make that
        decision, you might note so in your copyright message, ie something
        like

              This file is licensed under the GPL v2, or a later version
              at the discretion of Linus.

          might avoid issues. But we can also just decide to synchronize and
          contact all copyright holders on record if/when the occasion arises.

                              Linus Torvalds

      --

      I guess there's still that worry about how the GPL v3 is going to come out, but it is good at least to see the software under a free-as-in-speech license.

      --
      http://mediagoblin.org/
    2. Re:rcs. by s4m7 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I should have said non-free instead of proprietary, the specific implications of one vs. the other are fairly lost on me. Net result, BitKeeper posed some kind of problem IP-wise, and has been replaced.

      and yeah, people are worried about GPL3. Would you be eager to liscence your software under a license for which the specific language is not yet known?

      --
      This comment is fully compliant with RFC 527.
    3. Re:rcs. by iabervon · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, git has a number of nice features for individual developers and even testers. There's a great thing called "bisect" for finding what broke the system. You tell it "this version worked, and that version didn't." Then it checks out for you another version to try. You build it, test it, and tell it if it works. Then it checks out another one for you. After O(log(n)) steps, it tells you which patch broke things. It's actually faster than trying to figure out which patch it was by thinking about the problem.

      The reason this sort of thing is possible is that git is a free system, and people can write the tools they need to interact with it. It's true that most people didn't have to use BK, but git is useful in many more situations and there aren't the licensing reasons not to use it, so you're likely to see people tell you to use git just to move data around.

      For that matter, git has extensions to the patch format, so you need to use it if you want to make certain types of patches in ways that are easy to review (such as a patch that renames a file; standard diff requires the reviewer to figure out what is different between the lines removed from the old name and the lines added to the new one).

  5. Multiplatform VCS by should_be_linear · · Score: 2, Informative

    If you like Git but you want to use multiple platforms try Mercurial: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/index.cgi Performance is excellent, it is written in Python. So far version 0.7, but projects is very active.

    --
    839*929
    1. Re:Multiplatform VCS by boa13 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I frequently look at both projects, and it seems to me that Git is more active and has a bigger base (users and developers). These past ten weeks or so, Mercurial seems to have slowed down, while Git has accelerated towards 1.0. Besides, Git performance has improved a lot in the past few months, and disk usage has gone way down, the comparisons you can find on the web are now meaningless and outdated. Also, Git has been ported to Cygwin, and works on most Unices.

      However, Mercurial offers a better user experience, is easier to get into, is truly-cross-platform, and so might be a better choice for smaller projects. On the long term, I would place my bet on Git, though.

    2. Re:Multiplatform VCS by bfields · · Score: 1
      Mercurial offers a better user experience, is easier to get into, is truly-cross-platform, and so might be a better choice for smaller projects.

      Why "smaller projects" in particular? It's designed to scale well with tree size, and people are using it on the Linux kernel source.

    3. Re:Multiplatform VCS by MenTaLguY · · Score: 2, Informative

      Mercurial might be farther along if Larry McVoy hadn't (about ten weeks ago, curiously enough) gotten rid of one of their core developers by threatening their employer.

      BitKeeper is pure dag-nasty evil.

      --

      DNA just wants to be free...
  6. Andrew... :) by ovit · · Score: 2, Funny

    I actually had the pleasure of working at the same company as Andrew a few years back...

    We didn't directly work together (he was, obviousley doing kernel stuff, and I was doing UI back then), but I used to invent excuses to go talk to him, just to try to soak up some of that kernel hacking aura...

    Must have worked somewhat since now I'm doing driver development!

    --
    hard core geek-ware
  7. but its so short by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    before you all complain

    "For the full interview, in which Andrew discusses current 2.6 kernel quality, bugfixing, and more, grab a copy of [Linux Format] 74"

  8. Great professionalism! by joib · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So, uh, it seems that AM is a professional level headed guy. No surprises there really.

    But to my gripe: Starting the interview with "Do you think it was good to have had the time with BitKeeper in kernel development, or should they have stuck with CVS?". Gee, being so in tune with what's happening in kernel land just makes want to run to the nearest newsstand and get the latest "Linux Format": "The essential read for all Linux users".

    1. Re:Great professionalism! by david.gilbert · · Score: 1
      Gee, being so in tune with what's happening in kernel land just makes want to run to the nearest newsstand and get the latest "Linux Format": "The essential read for all Linux users".

      You have a point, but don't be too hard on "Linux Format", it's a pretty decent magazine. I'm not a subscriber, but I look out for it in the newsagents and buy it quite often. They cover a lot of ground in an accessible way - great if you are not a Linux guru.

    2. Re:Great professionalism! by bodger_uk · · Score: 1

      From TFA

      In issue 74 of Linux Format, on the shelves now, we have an interview with kernel 2.6 maintainer Andrew Morton. Here are a few of the questions we asked Andrew, along with his answers

      If you ran out and bought the magazine in question you would have the whole interview. The posted article is a taster. A teaser if you will. The actual interview is much broader, and the first question reprinted here is a follow on question to the whole bitkeeper/ cvs/ git topic.

  9. No Beard? by Skiron · · Score: 2, Funny

    Is that his picture - or the reporters mug shot?

    If so, then my first question would be:

    "Well Andrew, why haven't you got a hackers unruly beard then? Are you really a hacker?".

    1. Re:No Beard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Morton's mugshot :-)

    2. Re:No Beard? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but disguised under an unruly beard, he becomes...Super Hacker!

      (with 100% of your daily supply of Reiser4, these kernel patches are -mm -mm good)

      -Benjamin Vander Jagt

  10. You What!! by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Oh. My. Gods. From TFA

    AM: Well, we never even used CVS. Before BitKeeper we basically weren't using anything - just a bunch of patches sitting on Linus' hard drive and it uploaded occasionally. We had no tracking of what had gone in the kernel at all.

    Someone, please tell me this is a dream. Wake me from this nightmare. Dear gods!! There was no version control on the Linux Kernel!? How? What? When? Where? Why? WTF!!?

    I am not rightly able to comprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that would provoke such a situation.

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:You What!! by Carewolf · · Score: 2, Informative

      You have version control in the fact that versions are realeased every now and then, you can just diff them manually.

      The lack of version control tool, does not mean the lack of version control. It is just done manually. While slower manual control is infinitely more flexible than computer assisted version control, which was why Linus waited until he found a tool that didn't hinder him too much.

    2. Re:You What!! by Cramer · · Score: 2, Funny

      Nope. That's no dream. For most of a decade, the entire thing was run from Linus' INBOX. Various other kernel developers used CVS (etc.), but Linus HATES CVS. (And I don't blame him one bit.)

    3. Re:You What!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Yes just say it Linux sucks, computers suck, da intraweb sucks....

      Time for an exokernel already! Linux is not as good as everyone thinks it is... but its sure better than anything else we have right now that is usable... and if you want my opinion GNU sucks. I really wished someone that could do things correctly like djb would start their own OS.

      There are only a dozen people in this generation that can do things correctly in the computer world, and djb happens to be one of them.

    4. Re:You What!! by mikefe · · Score: 1

      Time for an exokernel already!

      I think these guys can help you with that.

      --
      There: Something at a specific location.
      Their: Owned by someone.
      Please make sure your english compiles.
    5. Re:You What!! by pthisis · · Score: 1

      Nope. That's no dream. For most of a decade, the entire thing was run from Linus' INBOX. Various other kernel developers used CVS (etc.), but Linus HATES CVS. (And I don't blame him one bit.)

      I'm not sure why this was flagged funny.

      It was literally Linus' INBOX that ran things. He had a whole series of scripts to apply patches from the INBOX, etc. And one of the first things he made sure Larry Mcvoy did when implementing bitkeeper was have commands to send/recieve patches in a similar email format so he could use his old scripts as needed.

      And he does hate CVS.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    6. Re:You What!! by BokLM · · Score: 2, Interesting

      While DJB has interesting ideas sometimes, his software are not open source, and he's stuck with his ideas.
      Even if his software are in general of good quality, they have the same problems as other proprietary software and don't get integrated very well into the system.

      Look at this thread on the openbsd mailling list :
      http://www.monkey.org/openbsd/archive/ports/0109/m sg00025.html

      --
      wtf.n0x.org
  11. Stinking font by po8 · · Score: 3, Funny

    The Linux Format folks really need to change the default font for their webpages, which appears to be Tahoma. I just spent two minutes of my life trying to figure out what a "dustering filesystem" is. Found a Googlewhack, anyhow.

    1. Re:Stinking font by Skiron · · Score: 1

      That is why a lot of false positives could happen if your name is CLINT (no offense meant to parent poster).

    2. Re:Stinking font by 1nt3lx · · Score: 1

      once google indexes this page it'll no longer be a google whack. i'll call this the slashdot-googlewhack uncertainty principle.

      --
      The List of Grievances with Slashdot.
  12. Netcraft Confirms it ... Andre Norton dead at 93 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    On November 21, 2005 at 2:23am Andre Norton passed away at her home in Murfreesboro, Tennessee. Since middle February she had been fighting with a combination of flu and pneumonia and has at last succumbed to a congestive heart failure.