Time Extend - Beyond Good and Evil

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Time Extend - Beyond Good and Evil

Posted by Zonk on Monday December 12, 2005 @06:39AM from the deserved-better-sales dept.

Edge Online is running a feature from the print version of Edge (in my opinion one of the finest gaming publications available) entitled Time Extend. This monthly feature rewinds the clock to look at a fantastic game from yesteryear. The Christmas Time Extend covers the well reviewed but underselling Beyond Good and Evil. Topical, as Michel Ancel also headed up the well reviewed console game based on Peter Jackson's King Kong. From the article: "So what was it about the adventures of an elfin lighthouse-keeper that made Jackson think Ancel could tame a two-ton gorilla? On the surface it seems a peculiar choice, but while Jade and Kong could hardly be more different, it was exactly because of what Ancel had accomplished with his heroine that Jackson was interested in the first place."

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Just my two British pence by Kazzahdrane · 2005-12-12 06:49 · Score: 4, Informative

Beyond Good and Evil is a great game, and it's especially great for more casual gamers. Even doing some side-adventuring, I finished the game in around 10 hours but didn't get bored for a minute. The difficulty isn't too taxing, the story kept me interested and considering I picked the game up preowned at a low price I was very happy with my purchase. I would recommend it to anyone, especially someone looking to introduce a non-gamer to gaming in a casual way.
You make it sound... by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 07:06 · Score: 1, Interesting

as though the game only caters to casual gamers.

This is a short but very good game, period.

And... if I recall correctly, it was launched rahter cheaply at around $20.
1. Re:You make it sound... by subrama6 · 2005-12-12 07:07 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  it was launched at the normal price, but sold so poorly, that it was dropped to the $20 range within about 6 weeks.
2. Re:You make it sound... by Kazzahdrane · 2005-12-12 07:15 · Score: 1
  
  I consider myself a pretty hardcore gamer, but I enjoyed the game a lot. 10 hours of pure fun are just as good as a 50-hour RPG that is pretty good, possibly even better.
Meh by xenocide2 · 2005-12-12 07:19 · Score: 1

BG&E didn't have that much going for it. It's really only notable in that you actually see women that aren't overendowed fantasies of their male creators, intended to reward their male fanbase (*cough*Ghost in the Shell*cough*). They make the distinction between story-writing and story-telling, and somehow claim that because the game never addresses the mismash of reality and fantasy passes for a coherent telling of story.

I haven't played Kong yet, so I can't really tell whether he was able to execute better with a script in front of him. On the other hand, I much more deeply value game designers who are able to impress me rather than film directors and buffs. I think the same goes for everyone ;)

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I like it a lot. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 07:20 · Score: 0

I like it a lot, even it feels in places as if a some stuff has been cut. Ubisoft had the brilliant idea to publish it right after christmas, and with several other high profile games competing.
If you can find it somewhere pick it up! It is worth it.
And here I was by ZakuSage · 2005-12-12 07:43 · Score: 1

Thinking a Beyond Good and Evil sequal had been announced. Small chance of that anyway...
1. Re:And here I was by Phisbut · 2005-12-12 08:15 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Having worked on the Beyond Good and Evil project at Ubisoft, I can tell you that the game was originally supposed to be a trilogy (which explains the pretty weird ending, leaving something for the sequel). What came out of development was a very good game (as the few who played it know), which has sometimes been refered to as "like Zelda, but not from Japan".
  However, marketing for the game was awful, the game was barely announced, and very few people actually knew what the game was about. Therefore, the game didn't sell well *because* of bad marketing. Unfortunately, we all know how game companies know their stuff... following the BGE fiasco, the marketing dept just kept on going advertising Splinter Cell and the lead programmer from Beyond Good and Evil got demoted. Yep, you read it right: he got demoted for making a great game...
  That killed the trilogy. When the first game of a serie doesn't sell well, Ubi doesn't invest in a sequel, no matter why the first didn't sell.
  
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2. Re:And here I was by Kelmenson · 2005-12-12 08:41 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Very strange that the lead programmer would get demoted. After all, the engine for BGE was used in all of the very successful Prince of Persia sequels.
3. Re:And here I was by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-12 08:56 · Score: 0
  
  Wow, that's hard to believe that the lead programmer got demoted. BGE was one of those game that just sticks with you, and it had such a vibrant and living world. Also, it had some of the best art direction I have ever seen in a game. They just made the mistake to release it in the holiday season, where it could not stand out. But everyone's opinion that I've seen online is the same, I think people should rally for a sequel Firefly style.
4. Re:And here I was by KDR_11k · 2005-12-12 09:24 · Score: 1
  
  "like Zelda, but not from Japan".
  
  Strange, I don't recall Zelda putting that much emphasis on stealth.
  
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5. Re:And here I was by KDR_11k · 2005-12-12 09:27 · Score: 1
  
  BGE was one of those game that just sticks with you, and it had such a vibrant and living world.
  
  I wish it was brighter though. I had to turn up the brightness a lot in order to see anything in many places.
  
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6. Re:And here I was by buffer-overflowed · 2005-12-12 11:25 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Zelda has it's stealth moments. Ocarina, sneaking up to the castle past the guards, Link to the Past has a similar sequence, in Wind Waker, it's stealthing through the fortress, etc. etc. You see a move towards some stealth starting at the SNES, and the there's pretty much at least one heavy stealth sequence per major console release after that.
  
  BG&E was probably the best non-zelda game in the zelda genre of this console generation. It had a story less convuluted than your typical japanese RPG translation of the past, it had a ton of quirky characters, and it had an interesting setting/theme. It also had it's not quite so great characteristics, you could tell it wasn't finished for example. But all in all, it was a damn great game.
  
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7. Re:And here I was by Walkiry · 2005-12-12 21:50 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  >After all, the engine for BGE was used in all of the very successful Prince of Persia sequels.
  
  It wasn't, at least for Sands of Time (and probably the rest, but I can't say since I haven't played any of the subsequent ones). At first they used it, then they switched to some other engine developed in their Chinese studios with more muscle. From Gamespot:
  
  In early January, the programmers realized that the JADE graphics engine was no longer capable of supporting the game's huge levels and detailed visual effects. "The programming team came in and basically said, 'Yannis, we have some bad news. We need to create a totally new rendering system for the game,'" says Mallat.
  
  And in the next page:
  
  As the deadlines began to approach for creating an E3 demo, the JADE rendering engine was removed from the game. It was replaced by a 3D rendering engine created by members of Ubisoft's Shanghai, China, design studio. Almost immediately the team began seeing results. The game was running faster, and, most importantly, the visuals were improving, thanks to effects like in-game fog and streams of light in the environment.
  
  Nevertheless, I agree that it's weird they demoted the lead programmer when the game was actually pretty good. So, it didn't sell but got glowing reviews in several places and not much in the form of negativity from those people who did play it... and the one to blame is the programmer. Riiiiight.
  
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8. Re:And here I was by KDR_11k · 2005-12-13 00:00 · Score: 1
  
  Zelda's stealth moments were just moments, five minutes at most. BGE has half the game devoted to stealth. In Zelda it's a major annoyance but one that's over five minutes later. In BGE it just doesn't stop.
  
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9. Re:And here I was by buffer-overflowed · 2005-12-13 02:40 · Score: 1
  
  Yea, but the stealth in BGE wasn't, by and large, poorly done or all that difficult. It played out more like the Forbidden Fortress section of Wind Waker than the guard-sneaking segment of OoT.
  
  I dunno, I didn't mind it for it most part. It never really got me into a controller-throwing state.
  
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10. Re:And here I was by Kelmenson · 2005-12-13 04:44 · Score: 1
  
  Ah, guess I missed when that switch occured. Thanks for the info.
11. Re:And here I was by KDR_11k · 2005-12-13 06:07 · Score: 1
  
  I gave up in a room where I couldn't figure out how to get by unseen (I normally snipe all guards but in this room there's one of those instakill lasers installed right under the camera and you can't hide from it). To me stealth is too difficult when the fields of vision of the guards aren't displayed and I can't just kill everyone and get on with it. Yes, I have a very low tolerance for it but that's why I avoid games where stealth is involved like the plague. Fortunately I don't throw controllers (would have racked up quite a bill...), when I want to do that I just put the game on the shelf forever.
  
  Overall I hate this modern "every game has to include at least one stealth section" mentality. Stealth as the first dungeon in Wind Waker was stressing it but adding a stealth section to Metroid was absolutely unnecessary and idiotic. Why don't they let stealth fans buy stealth games and spare the rest?
  
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BGE by MrCopilot · 2005-12-12 08:39 · Score: 2, Informative

Go get this game and fiish it, You won't be sorry.
I bought it for my 8 yr old daughter. Mostly non-violent and witty characters. Main objective in the game is to take photographs for a news agency. She loved it. I played right along side her taking turns (SinglePlayer Only) until we finished it.
Our review: Fun Flop.
Too bad too would make a great franchise.

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1. Re:BGE by KDR_11k · 2005-12-12 09:33 · Score: 1
  
  Be warned: This game contains extensive use of stealth. It's not for people who don't like stealth. Unfortunately I bought it because people said it's a lot like Zelda and a great game but nothing annoys me more than stealth sections in games that aren't completely in the stealth genre (because those I know to avoid, with mixed games it's often not so obvious).
  
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  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Finally, someone who says the truth. by Inoshiro · 2005-12-12 08:43 · Score: 2, Informative

I swear that Ubisoft paid off all the video game magazines so that they would condsider BG&E a great game.

The trouble was that BG&E was rushed out for the holiday season. In doing so, they cut off the required development time to make it a great game.

" there's no question that Ancel achieved his ambition of producing a streamlined adventure, there's nothing memorable, nothing meaty in any of the game's set pieces. It's a game you finish in a happy haze, entranced by your time in Jade's world, but hard pressed to remember a single fight, puzzle, race, or stealth challenge that stood out."

The best part I can think of is the first dungeon, because I played it twice (once at a friend's place, and once when I bought the game for 9$ CAD new).

BG&E had a lot of promise, but the execution was flawed. The game needed a couple more dungeons (it had 3 in total, plus the racing and standard side-story collections), and could've used maybe one or two more side-story things (it's a nice change from a game like FF X-2 that demands 40 hours of my life for a bare-minimum experience!). The story was very promising, but the ending could've used more work, especially letting Jade suceeed because she was determined, not because of some fate. The monsters were pretty cookie cutter, too.

It would've been nice if there was replability (hell, a simple arrange mode which moved everything around randomly after you beat it once would've been worth it).

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1. Re:Finally, someone who says the truth. by metamatic · 2005-12-12 09:23 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah. I just finished playing BG&E, in fact... must go list it on eBay.
  
  The main issue is that it never quite managed to feel like a complete world, and some of the recycling of 3D models was a bit too obvious; you really can't get away with putting the exact same supposedly natural cave formation in two places.
  
  If only they had been given time to finish it. Then again, Ubisoft probably looked at the sales they did get, and saw that as vindication for pulling the plug.
  
  I did like how the story just blew up into epic scale for the grand climactic battle, though, and the way the final fight still managed to throw in some complete surprises in terms of fight mechanics.
  
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2. Re:Finally, someone who says the truth. by Prophet+of+Nixon · 2005-12-12 09:42 · Score: 1
  
  I dunno, I grabbed a copy when I saw it for $15, and I think its one of the greatest games from the recent console generation. It was fun, absolutely absorbing from start to finish, had gorgeous colorful graphics with style, and had neat characters, all of which are more than I can say for most games.
  
  As some random bastard on the internet, does this opinion necessarily mean I have been bribed?
  
  What if I wrote it for Gaming Prophecy Weekly?
  
  Where in the transition from random bastard to journalist is one forced to become a crook?
  
  Maybe the journalists (I am, obviously, not) realized they played a great game, and wrote honestly. Not all of us can be crooks all of the time.
  
  Now for some hypocrisy! I'm almost sure UbiSoft has been paying for positive reviews on all of their Tom Clancy crap... that shit is terrible, and those crooks should be axed!
  
  On second thought, maybe all of these "opinion" things are totally subjective and its pointless to hurl them at each other. Or maybe the point of opinions is being bribed. You might be on to something there. I'm gonna go see if the domain name GamingProphecy is taken...
3. Re:Finally, someone who says the truth. by Anonymous Coward · 2005-12-13 01:19 · Score: 0
  
  I have to say that I felt the same way. Having played through the majority of the game, I ultimately found it to be too tedious to continue. There just wasn't enough going on in the game, and it seemed like I was spending the majority of my time on boring fetch-quests to find items or take picture, that were only intended to make a short game seem longer.
  
  The problem with Beyond Good and Evil is that it, while a fun game in many respects, is never really good at anything. It's a lot of great ideas and a good game engine that never were really wrapped up into something that seems complete.
After level 3... by ModemRat · 2005-12-12 08:49 · Score: 0

...you gain Ubermensch status and can ward off oppressive systems of morality. Ho man was that sweet...
Just Shows How Crap Games Are Really by cbnmedia · 2005-12-12 12:41 · Score: 0

The fact that BG&E was so well regarded to me just proves how low the games design business has sunk. There is nothing great about the game, in fact it is just a slapped together concoction of several elements of Japanese RPG's I had played before. The fact that it gets such good press is more an indication of the total lack of imagination in modern game design than it is of its' own kwality. I have much more innovative game design ideas Peter Jackson, hire me :)

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An underdog few remember by superultra · 2005-12-12 14:46 · Score: 1

I loved BG&E, but like ICO and REZ it is almost always on these underdog/underrated charts.

Battlezone is a title I have not yet seen on any charts, and it was absolutely fantastic. The plot was stellar and original, the blend between action and strategy was as seamless as it ever has been up to and since, and the graphics and design somehow managed to pay homage to the original and still seem very new.

I'm actually quite amazed Atari never updated the sucker and brought it to the consoles. The UI would have ported very easily. The team that did Battlezone did some lame Star Wars game, but that doesn't count.
1. Re:An underdog few remember by Pxtl · 2005-12-13 03:19 · Score: 1
  
  It was ported. There was a lame version of Battlezone for N64. The singleplayer was there, but the multiplayer was crippled.
  
  Definitely deserves a remake or knock-off or something. These days all the FPS/RTS hybrids are teamplay-based, not "you command an AI army from FPS perspective" which is imho more interesting than just being a soldier in some commander's game of Natural Selection.
2. Re:An underdog few remember by KDR_11k · 2005-12-13 06:16 · Score: 1
  
  Well, it DID get a sequel...
  
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  Justice is the sheep getting arrested while an impartial judge declares the vote void.
Blatant Advertising? by fwitness · 2005-12-12 15:49 · Score: 1

Would this be a bad time to mention certain ebay auctions by incredibly reputable individuals which contain said game?

Alright so I'm hard up for cash and want my games to get a good home. Mod me down then (but take a look anyway!)

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