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Moon Shadows Frustrate Astronauts

Posted by samzenpus on from the matter-of-fact-it's-all-dark dept.

saskboy writes "Apollo Chronicles by NASA talk about moon shadows and how they are much darker than daytime shadows on Earth. This is because there is almost no light reflected from atmosphere molecules or secondary light sources like "earthshine". "It is very easy to see in the shadows after you adapt for a while," noted Armstrong. But, added Aldrin, "continually moving back and forth from sunlight to shadow should be avoided because it's going to cost you some time in perception ability." Working on the moon even in the daylight might present unique problems not typically encountered on earth, if visual coordination in a shadow riddled area is required for a task. Audio of the NASA article is also available."

32 comments

  1. Hmm by Murphy+Murph · · Score: 1

    If only there was a way of Harnessing Horizontal Moon Temperature Gradient.

    --
    I dub thee... Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, Beater of Ass.
  2. The solution is obviously by Centurix · · Score: 2, Funny

    Leaping and hopping

    --
    Task Mangler
    1. Re:The solution is obviously by Philip+K+Dickhead · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm being followed by a moon shadow
      Moon shadow moon shadow
      Leaping and hopping on a moon shadow
      Moon shadow moon shadow
      And if I ever lost my hands
      Lose my plough, lose my land
      Oh, if I ever lose my hands- Oh, if...
      I wont have to work no more
      And if I ever lose my eyes
      If my colours all run dry
      Yes if I ever lose my eyes,I won't have to cry no more.
      Yes, I'm being followed by a moon shadow
      Moon shadow moon shadow
      Leaping and hopping on a moonshadow
      Moon shadow moon shadow
      And if I ever lose my legs
      I won't moan and I won't beg
      Oh if I ever lose my legs- Oh if...
      I won't have to walk no more
      And if I ever lose my mouth
      All my teeth, north and south
      Yes, if I ever lose my mouth- Oh if...
      I won't have to talk...
      Did it take long to find me
      I ask the faithful light
      Did it take long to find me
      And are you going to stay the night
      I'm being followed by a moon shadow
      Moon shadow moon shadow
      Moon shadow moon shadow
      Moon shadow moon shadow

      --
      "Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
  3. Science Class by MBCook · · Score: 4, Insightful
    Why don't they ever tell you stuff like this in science class?

    This obviously isn't new, and there is no way it was classified.

    These are the kind of things that can help make science interesting. Being able to imagine what it is like on the moon, and interesting stories. That thing about they thought it was a 40 degree slope when it was a light trick and only 10. I would remember that. It would also go to show that science is fallible. No one thought of that before they got there. We still discover new things accidently. This kind of stuff can get kids interested in science.

    But instead, we teach them Boyle's Law and Newton's Three Laws. Both are important, but it seems like they taught that to me in middle school. And then later in middle school. Then in high school. Then in high school again. Then in college. And that is just in physics classes (it's in Math textbooks to be used as examples too). Now while I understand repeating it between middle school and college, and teaching it again in college based on Calculus to do more demanding/interesting problems, so much of the science classes I've had are just "memorize these things (again)." Interesting stories like this just don't get talked about.

    --
    Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
    1. Re:Science Class by saskboy · · Score: 1

      It sounds like walking on the moon is a bit like running through a dark unlevel field with grass and a distant streetlight. It's not impossible, but you feel like you could trip any time since the shadow you see could be a rock hiding behind some grass, or a gopher hole. Walking away from the sun on the moon could be no fun at all...

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  4. Don't bother by iced_773 · · Score: 1


    The moon is a liberal myth anyway. :)

  5. Solution? by Sparr0 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    For single-purpose activities this is just something to live with, but if there is going to be extended activity in the same area then why not hang white curtains around the work site? They should reflect back enough light to create earth-ish contrast shadows. Just have to knock down one side of the circle of curtains around sunrise/sunset.

    1. Re:Solution? by saskboy · · Score: 1

      The curtains might work nicely, depending on how reflective they are, but more importantly if they'll be able to stay reflective without attracting too much moon dust if static electricity comes into play. As long as they aren't dropped on the ground, or human activity doesn't stir up too much dust I suspect they'd retain their usefulness. The curtains couldn't or shouldn't be brought indoors if they become dusty, since moon dust is quite toxic due to its unweathered nature it causes sylicosis [quartz dust poisoning] if too much is inhaled for too long.

      My illumination idea that's less good [but more mobile] is to have a row of LEDs on suits, which would provide low power yet high illumination. I don't know if LEDs can work in space conditions though, they might melt or freeze for all I know.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    2. Re:Solution? by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      I can picture the responses from conspiracy theorists already. "They lost the backdrop since the last mission", for example.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    3. Re:Solution? by Fred_A · · Score: 1

      Or they could just light the work area.
      Or give the astronauts flashlights.

      Or not send people who are scared of shadows to begin with.

      --

      May contain traces of nut.
      Made from the freshest electrons.
    4. Re:Solution? by Vo0k · · Score: 1

      "Whoa, neat! We have the site lit up, we can start construction now. Where are the tools?"
      "Right behind the courtain!"

      --
      Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
    5. Re:Solution? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      Or give the astronauts flashlights.

      How very Russian of you. :)

      In America we'll have a helmet with a built-in display. Automatic gain control and such.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  6. Sing along with me by Claire-plus-plus · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm being followed by a moon shadow Moon shadow moon shadow...

    --
    99 bottles of beer in 175 characte
    1. Re:Sing along with me by saskboy · · Score: 1

      And if you lose your legs... you can still hop around on the moon.

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
  7. I'm being followed by a.... by the+real+manta · · Score: 1

    Moon Shadow (somebody had to say it!).

    1. Re:I'm being followed by a.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Earthshine is stronger than moonshine, right?

  8. Well, guess its a good thingq by voxel · · Score: 1

    I guess its a good thing we A) Haven't been there since 1972, 34 years ago and B) Have no current plans of going back.

    I think we better fire up a gov. contract spending billions though on figuring out how to manage SHADOWS on the moon.

    --
    Modesty is one of life's greatest attributes
    1. Re:Well, guess its a good thingq by DamienNightbane · · Score: 1

      I think we better fire up a gov. contract spending billions though on figuring out how to manage SHADOWS on the moon.

      Flashlights.

      Where do I go to collect my government grant?

  9. Something else to worry about by Flying+pig · · Score: 0, Offtopic
    Time to invest in a company that sells those little USB lights, illuminated keyboards, and all those other things we won't be able to do without if we have to work outdoors on the Moon. Because this is going to be a huge problem....

    In other news, Navy divers announced that it is quite cold and wet under the sea, coal miners reported that it is quite dark in coal mines, and doctors revealed that there are too many unhealthy people in hospitals.

    --
    Pining for the fjords
  10. Moon shadows frustrate photographers by Sockatume · · Score: 2, Funny

    "Parallel, curse you, you're meant to be parallel!"

    --
    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  11. Welding masks by Tango42 · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't something like those welding masks that automatically change the amount of light they cut out depending on how much there is work? Basically you make it so you're always in the same amount of shadow.

    I find the same problem when skiing - I'm guessing the high reflectivity of snow means the difference between sun and shadow is greater. It can be quite frightning skiing through shadows because you can't see a thing (you're wearing sunglasses, so even a mild shadow seems very dark).

    1. Re:Welding masks by Xenophon+Fenderson, · · Score: 1

      Welders tell me that welding masks are basically very dark sunglasses. You can't see anything except the spark, and you do a lot of work by feel more than anything else.

      --
      I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian Heritage
    2. Re:Welding masks by Tango42 · · Score: 1

      Yes, so you reduce the extent they reduce the light by, but the important part was the fact that you can get light sensitive welding masks that only cut out light if it gets bright enough.

    3. Re:Welding masks by drinkypoo · · Score: 2, Informative
      Welders lie to you. Or at least, they don't tell you the whole story. Now, presumably we're all talking about arc welding here. If you're doing gas welding then you probably have goggles with about shade 5 lenses. If you're doing arc, that's 9 or 10. For doing arc, you can get a hood with some sort of power source, and some sort of light sensor. They start out at a shade 5 and go up to shade 10 (or whatever is necessary) automatically when you weld. Thus, you get the best of both worlds - you can see what you're doing, AND you have protection. A lot of them are actually solar, and you keep them charged by just keeping them someplace exposed to light. They can also use the solar panel to detect the amount of light. The shade is achieved through the use of an LCD with a filter polarized to normally pass light.

      There are also IR-vision goggles with light blocking; they have some kind of LCD matrix over the lens, and they detect bright lights and block them out so they don't overload the image sensor.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Welding masks by Xenophon+Fenderson, · · Score: 1

      It's not that they lied, it's just that all the welders I know are rednecks that don't have the fancy gear, is all. :)

      --
      I'm proud of my Northern Tibetian Heritage
    5. Re:Welding masks by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Well, they're silly, since you can get the "fancy gear" on ebay for about fifty bucks and then you can have eye protection AND see what the hell you're doing. Of course, they may not have computers, but they do know you...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  12. How about? by chord.wav · · Score: 4, Funny

    Having helmets with lights in the forehead?
    Every science fiction movie worth of mention has space suits with lights in their helmets

    1. Re:How about? by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Having helmets with lights in the forehead?
      Every science fiction movie worth of mention has space suits with lights in their helmets

      I assume you mean *inside* the helmet. They do this to show the actors' faces better for human appeal. However, that would be pretty stupid in practice because the inside glow would reflect off of the visor, hair folicals, nose shine, etc. to make it impossible to see into dark shadows outside the helmet.

      But then again, I am used to Hollywood pissing on reality by now.

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
  13. Next week on up-to-the-minute Slashdot... by metamatic · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    President Carter Announces Funding For NASA Space Shuttle Program!

    --
    GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
  14. We Don't Need a Government Contract by virg_mattes · · Score: 1

    Well, we don't need a contract to do it, but some thought needs to be put into it. After all, China intends to set up a base on the Moon, so they'll need to deal with it, and if they go it's certainly possible that it'll renew interest in the U.S. going back too, in which case we'll need to deal with it too.

    Virg