Massive Lightning Storm on Saturn

Aielman writes to tell us Yahoo News is reporting that Researchers are tracking a gigantic electrical storm on Saturn that has released lightning bolts more than one thousand times stronger than those found on Earth. The storms where first spotted earlier this year from the Cassini probe and since that time scientists have recorded 35 consecutive episodes each lasting about ten hours.

Comments

Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[eldavojohn]

These storms (and their cycles) are old news. Hubble spotted them back in 1990, the only new information we have today is how strong the lightening is. From the Solar Views article:

Although these events were separated by about 57 years (approximately 2 Saturnian years) there is yet no explanation why they apparently follow a cycle -- occurring when it is summer in Saturn's northern hemisphere.

Now that'd be interesting to know how these storms work on a two planet year cycle as our monsoons and other weather phenomenon seem to primarily operate on single planet year cycles. This area has been nicknamed "Storm Alley."

For more information on how the bands that show up on Saturn reflect weather patterns, check out the weather section on this planet at NJU.

The planet's got 30 named satellites and the most prominent feature a belt of dust and debris. I'm sure there's a lot of factors at play here--probably more than our own atmosphere. There's a lot of talk about cosmic rays actually being the cause of lightning on both Jupiter and Saturn but this topic is heavily debated.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[Otter]

As I understand your links, this is really old news, dating back 114 years (or 130 or something -- I'm confused about the timeline). I don't know if the two year cycle is as clear-cut as you're saying it is, given the relatively small number of Saturn years observed, spotty astronomical coverage (I'd guess) in the 19th century and the fact that we're now seeing them 16 Earth years apart. Maybe they're yearly, but by chance severe storms have popped up every other year during the last six years?

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[east coast]

I don't know if the two year cycle is as clear-cut as you're saying it is, given the relatively small number of Saturn years observed

That is the problem in research, how long do you observe something until you can seperate coincidence with what is truely a pattern. Look at global warming, there is a lot of evidence to come to the conclusion that it's human dickering but there is also the question of this maybe being part of a natural cycle. Until we get our hands on a large portion of first hand obsevred data it's going to be hard to come to a firm conclusion.

George Carlin once said it was arrogant of us to think that we can change the planet let alone save it. Maybe he's right. But for now you need to take the data at hand and start to work on theories about what might be going on and apply whatever solution may be needed. In the case of Saturn I think we're pretty far from needing to worry about it much.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[cowscows]

Following a little further off topic, you're hinting at the biggest problem we have with the whole Global Warming debate. There are two extremes, either we're totally wrecking the planet, or it's all a natural cycle that we're too insignificant to affect. The loudest voices in the debate are generally arguing one of the two extremes, and neither extreme position is terribly useful for collecting good data or presenting real solutions.

And the truth is probably somewhere in between. Why a more realistic and sensible look at the available information doesn't seem to motivate anyone is a mystery to me.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[east coast]

Why a more realistic and sensible look at the available information doesn't seem to motivate anyone is a mystery to me.

I don't doubt that someone has but with the forces of industry and the environmental lobby pushing on them it may be easy to repress...

But if it hasn't been done it may be hard to get a grant that would be needed for this reseach because of the same forces that would repress the data anyway.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[ecorona]

George Carlin said that we can't permanently damage the planet. He acknowledged that we can damage the planet enough to cause the planet to "shake us (humans) off like fleas" and then eventually recover from our being here. The planet and life would go on but humanity and civilization on this planet the way we know it would not be the same.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the mistake is to believe that these voices represent the majority of work or research in climate change. The reality is that we have alot more data over a much longer period then most people realise (as in millions of years) and that most predictions just say the place will warm a few degrees. This is hardly a message of all out catastrophe, more like a message of considerable economic inconvenience as lower lying areas will have considerable flood threats.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[ockegheim]

Now that'd be interesting to know how these storms work on a two planet year cycle as our monsoons and other weather phenomenon seem to primarily operate on single planet year cycles.

A Saturn year is 29.46 Earth years, so one Saturn year ago, Earth may not have been in a good position for us to observe the storms. Maybe.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[Stephen Samuel]

The loudest voices in the debate are generally arguing one of the two extremes, and neither extreme position is terribly useful for collecting good data or presenting real solutions.

The loudest voices in this debate are the industrial lobby. The industrial lobby tries to make it look like the environmental lobby and the scientists are making unreasonable predictions -- because that's easier to argue against.

Most scientists and members of the environmental lobby are clear that we can't totally ruin the planet, but we can totally ruin it's ability to support 4Billion people -- and when that happens, we're going to be forced to make decisions far nastier than the ones we're being asked to make now.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[stlhawkeye]

To play devil's advocate, the "scientific community" has believed a lot of things that made perfect sense when one analyzed the available data using the available technology, and no matter how we advanced, no matter what else we learned, we found out that what we previously thought we knew was almost always wrong or, at best partially correct but incomplete.

I am unwilling at this point to agree with all of the following: (1) global warming is happening (2) its causes are anthropomorphic (3) the recommended mitigations will stop or slow it (4) the recommended mitigations are necessary for the survival of the species, directly or indirectly. The research is compelling but it's incomplete. I actually think the president is right in his stance that more research and funding is necessary before we can wisely take corrective action. Sadly, his own administration appears to be hellbent on sabotaging or slanting exactly that effort. *checks watch* Two more years for a change of leadership. I think ol' mudda earth will hold out that long. There are plenty of clearly man-made civilization-threatening problems facing us that are more immediate and more solvable. As far as environmental sciences go, our action is best directed towards improving the lives of people for whose ails we already have proven solutions. Clean water, innoculations, and the like. Our research should continue as it has been, preferably with less hand-wringing by the left and less meddling and manipulation by the right.

Re:Lovely Summer Months in Southern Saturn

[Stephen Samuel]

If you're driving at 60 miles an hour and someone tells you that, just past that dip in the road is a sudden 100foot drop, do you slow down until you're sure, or do you continue to barrel along at 60 miles per hour until you can see over the crest of the hill (at which point it may be too late to stop)??

The 'things that science was wrong about' can, for the vast majority of them be placed into two categories:

1. Things that we've always believed in just because we were told so. These things should, more properly be called 'pre-scientific beliefs'. Things like a flat Earth, the sun earth orbiting around the earth and that a 10lb cannonball falls much faster than a 1lb cannonball.
   Truth of the matter is that many of these things didn't make much of a difference anyways.. Orbital mechanics doesn't mean much to someone for whom a 40mile donkey ride is an extremely long trip.
2. Things that we had a 'decent' model for that's been improved upon. Galilean mechanics, and newtonian physics would be examples of this. Newtonian physics, while technically 'wrong' are still accurate enough for most things as long as you stay below 1% of the speed of light.
   Even einsteinian physics may be off, but it doesn't show up until you're trying to do things like measure the position and speed of Voyager (out beyond Pluto) to within a few metres, or build a GPS system accurate to within a few inches.

   Thing is that the second kind of 'wrongness' isn't actually wrong. Science doesn't claim to be perfect (although it aims to be). It's intended to create ever-more-accurate models thru continuing cycles of observation, modelling, prediction and testing.

Back in the early '70s The Greenhouse theory was presented to me as an "interesting but unproven theory". Nowadays it's been studied, modelled predicted and tested to death. People who oppose it are now reduced to vague "but what if it's wrong?" arguments but have been unable to present models that test out better than current greenhouse models.

Yes, further studies will come up with better models of what would happen if we continue to burn carbon fuels at the rate we have been, but it's now extremely unlikely we'll wake up one day and realize that it was just a bad dream caused by a misplaced decimal point. We're well past the question of if. We're now looking at how much, how fast and what are the implications.

They're going to be publishing a paper in "Science" today that some of the glaciers in southern Greenland have tripled the speed of their march into the sea in the past 5 years, and are now pumping 150 cubic KM of ice into the ocean. If they don't accelerate any more, this'll that Greenland will add an extra foot of ocean rise by the end of the century beyond what had already been predicted by global warming experts.

1 foot of rise may not sound like much, but what this means is that the US is going to have to spend billions more protecting New Orleans if they don't decide to abandon the entire city, and lowlands in other areas will have to be abandoned. Many other sea coast areas could end up receeding by miles from their current locations. This also has implications for the glaciers on antarctica which are much larger. Those are the questions that need further study. If is only a question for people who want to wait until we hit the wall before they bother to slow down.

Mage

[nmccart]

What level does your mage have to be to call down a lightning storm of that magnitude?

Re:Mage

[Anonymous Coward]

Interestingly, in World of Warcraft -- Mages lack the power to call lightning storms. They can call Blizzards.

Instead, a druid can create a hurricane...which is basically manifested as a lightning storm (it'd be neat if hurricane actually blew enemies away)

Re:Mage

[FirienFirien]

All you need to do is send bloodninja up and compare his level 1,000,000 lightning spell to it... ;)

Re:Mage

[Anonymous Coward]

dork ahoy!

Re:Mage

[Rei]

Whatever level it takes, I'm sure that you can pay someone in China to level you that high ;)

In other news..

[Rob T Firefly]

Members of Saturn's DeLorean owners' association report that thanks to the storms, their cars are disappearing into Time left and right.

Re:In other news..

[Ekarderif]

Saturn doesn't make DeLoreans.

Re:In other news..

[hkgroove]

^^ Went right over his head, I think.

But I do wonder, how many jigawatt's does each of those lightning strikes produce?

Re:In other news..

[crownrai]

FTFA "Lightning bolts more than 1,000 times stronger than those found on Earth".

Rough estimate, 1210 jigawatts.

Oh, that's nothing

[voice_of_all_reason]

It's just Emperor Bush teaching Darth Cheny how to use force-lightning in case this hunting accident story requires "drastic" measures.

Death by lightning bolts.

[Bnderan]

lightning bolts more than one thousand times stronger than those found on Earth. So if you got hit by one, it would kill you like ... a thousand times worse. NASA better do something about this!

in related news

[Artie_Effim]

there is a massive shit storm on Uranus.
KAZING!

happens all the time...on uranus

[Anonymous Coward]

this is old news on Uranus. happens every time you eat hot/spicy food

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[KentoNET]

I can't wait till 2620 when scientists rename it to Urectum to end that stupid joke once and for all.

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[Anonymous Coward]

someone watches too much Futurama....

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[fallen1]

Guy one: U rectum?
Guy two: *lol* Rectum? I damn near killed 'em.

See, I'm thinking the whole joke thing will just continue... ;-)

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[kimvette]

"too much Futurama" - there is no such thing. Now, stop posting nonsense! :D

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[fastgood]

The current crop of 1st through 5th graders in elementary schools can name all the planets in order,
thanks to a Blue's Clues song. Learned it in one episode so it must be mind-control:

Well the suns a hot star .... Venus is hot too
Mercury's the brightest planet .... Earth's home to me and you
Mars is the red planet .... Jupiter's most wide
Saturns got those icy rings ... Uranus is on its side

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[Cyberax]

Can anybody explain me this joke? I just don't get it.

PS: English is not my native language.

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[Anonymous Coward]

Your humour chip must have a loose connection ... please remove it, check for any foreign objects, and reinsert it carefully.

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[Astroboy!]

Last time I checked, Mercury comes before Venus.

Maybe Swiper swiped it?

Re:happens all the time...on uranus

[AJWM]

And Venus is brighter than Mercury. The GP obviously transposed them.

So much for that mnemonic.

One possible explanation

[Billosaur]

Thundercats, HOOOOOOOOO!!!

Re:One possible explanation

[Anonymous Coward]

Probe of Cassini, give me sight beyond sight!

Hello, McFly?!

[Anonymous Coward]

As soon as I read this article, I knew what to expect in the posts... lo and behold!

Has there ever been a /. article involving lightning or massive amounts of energy where someone hasn't made a back to the future joke? No offense, but they're just not that funny!

war

[Surt]

It's really just a war between the grey-on-the-left cloud beings and grey-on-the-right cloud beings. Go righties!

I am the only logical choice.

[hockpatooie]

My superior Vulcan physiology will allow me to withstand lightning surges a thousand times stronger than what is found on your native world. Therefore, I am the only logical choice to investigate this phenomenon. I will fly a standard shuttlecraft into the atmosphere of Saturn, climb out on the roof while the craft is in motion, and hold aloft a Terran golf club in order to be struck by this lightning and study its effects. I have programmed the shuttlecraft to return to the starship automatically in the event that I do not survive the lighting strike.

Please do not try to stop me. A Vulcan is always prepared to sacrifice himself for the good of the many. It is only logical. Your fragile human makeup would not even be able to withstand the atmosphere of Saturn, much less the electrical energy produced by lighting a thousand times more powerful than that found on your own small homeworld.

Re:I am the only logical choice.

[Ray Radlein]

I will fly a standard shuttlecraft into the atmosphere of Saturn, climb out on the roof while the craft is in motion, and hold aloft a Terran golf club in order to be struck by this lightning and study its effects.

Please remember not to use a one-iron. Even Saturn can't hit a one-iron.

That'd be the butt, Bob

[LunaticTippy]

Uranus is referred to by immature native english-speakers as "Your Anus." Endless laughs in the classroom. "Hey, with this telescope I can see Your Anus!"

The joke is funny because "Your Rectum" is no better. I'm hoping you know Anus and Rectum are Asshole, but lets be thorough.

Inter Planet Janet

[dsci]

Or, if you are a little older:

They say our solar system is centered 'round the sun,
Nine planets, large and small, parading by.
But somewhere out in space,
There's another shining face
That you might see some night up in the sky.
Interplanet Janet, she's a galaxy girl,
A solar system Ms. from a future world,
She travels like a rocket with her comet team
And there's never been a planet Janet hasn't seen,
No, there's never been a planet Janet hasn't seen.

She's been to the sun, it's a lot of fun,
It's a hot spot, it's a gas!
Hydrogen and helium in a big, bright, glowing mass.
It's a star, it's a star! So Janet got an autograph!

Mercury was near the sun so Janet stopped by,
But the mercury on Mercury was much too high, so
Janet split for Venus but on Venus she found
She couldn't see a thing for all the clouds around.
Earth looked exciting, kind of green and inviting,
So Janet thought she'd give it a go.
But the creatures on the planet looked so very weird to Janet,
She didn't even dare to say hello.

It's a bird, it's a plane! Why, it must be a UFO, but it was:
Interplanet Janet, she's a galaxy girl,
A solar system Ms. from a future world,
She travels like a rocket with her comet team
And there's never been a planet Janet hasn't seen,
No, there's never been a planet Janet hasn't seen.

Mars is red and Jupiter's big
And Saturn shows off its rings.
Uranus is built on a funny tilt
And Neptune is its twin,
And Pluto, little Pluto is the farthest planet from our sun.

They say our solar system is not alone in space.
The universe has endless mystery.
Some future astronaut
May find out that what he thought
Was a shooting star instead turned out to be...

Interplanet Janet, she's a galaxy girl,
A solar system Ms. from a future world,
She travels like a rocket with her comet team
And there's never been a planet Janet hasn't seen,
There's never been a planet Janet hasn't seen.

Could it be...

[Sux2BU]

Global warming?

Is this caused by global warming?

[jgardn]

Is Saturn warming up as well? Maybe the UN on Saturn should ban CO2 emissions.

Re:Is this caused by global warming?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean it's Bush's fault? I knew it. MoneOn.org needs more money! More! More!

Pay careful attention

[Flying pig]

Ouranos was the Greek God of the sky. So, as you would expect, when William Herschel discovered an extra planet beyond Saturn, he wanted to call it the Georgian planet in the hope the King at the time would give him a knighthood, or something. However, the King didn't come through, or something, so in honour of the Royal connection he named it Uranus, keeping the phonetic resemblance to Ouranos in his back pocket in case someone wised up the King.

Well, that's about as reliable as some Wikipedia, anyway. And yes, English is my native language, but do I have some good points as well.

SHR

[Anonymous Coward]

nice one.

TheStonepedo