Lumines, Neverwinter, and Knights On the Way

While it's not something we normally link to, some anticipated product-related news is making the rounds today. As 360 owners are likely already aware, Lumines Live! is available on the Xbox Live Marketplace. It's not entirely all it's cracked up to be, though, with some of the content yet to be rolled out and requiring a separate purchase. Neverwinter Nights 2 has gone gold, happily, with an October 31st release date placing it on the same day as Final Fantasy XII and making me very sad. Finally, November 21st will see the release of Knights of the Nine, new content for Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. The content will come with the PS3 version of the game, will be released to the 360 and PC via normal channels, and will also appear in stores via a box loaded will all additional Oblivion content to date.

Comments

An elderly relative has died and left you a castle

[Channard]

.. but you must defeat the Knights of the Nine to claim it. That'll be the way it'll go if it's anything like the other 360 content. The problem with all the 360 content has been that the various quests/items/lairs etc have just been given to you via notes or something. Which seems pretty damn contrived.

Why sad?

[Anonymous Coward]

Neverwinter Nights 2 has gone gold, happily, with an October 31st release date placing it on the same day as Final Fantasy XII and making me very sad.

Buy the real RPG (NN2) and screw the non-interactive non-game.

Or, if you're a real masochist and insist on watching a 40-hour+ crappy game-rendered movie, buy them both.

NWN may still come to Linux

[also-rr]

Vote early, vote often! Bioware (who are still involved at some level) have requested that all Linux interest is registered in this thread on the Atari forum - 1400 replies so far.

From the FAQ:

We have by no means made any decisions to abandon the Linux or Mac communities at this time. Nor is it such a black and white issue over whether Atari or Obsidian decides what happens. Atari has been very open and a fantastic partner.

Re:NWN may still come to Linux

[also-rr]

Interesting poll from the bioware boards of NWN players - 54% of NWN1 players ran Linux compared to 44% Windows and 16% on OS X (multiple select was allowed).

Depending on when this poll was taken it's fairly believable. Later on in the lifecycle NWN was far more heavilly played by Linux users (well, it was newer for them by a year :P) and I suspect it was mostly Linux users who brought the expansion modules (competition? what competition?).

Re:NWN may still come to Linux

[ahsile]

Done. Now where's that $20 you promised me... ;)

Re:NWN may still come to Linux

[Swift(void)]

Interesting poll from the bioware boards of NWN players - 54% of NWN1 players ran Linux compared to 44% Windows and 16% on OS X (multiple select was allowed).

Wow, you should be in PR with skewing like that. The poll was open to the entire bioware community, not strictly to neverwinter nights players. Ontop of that, NWN sold hundreds of thousands of copies, and that poll had 13,000 responses. While its a good size sample, how many little jimmys who got NWN for windows from their mom that never visited the bioware site do you think exist?

Atari/Obsidian dropped plans for Linux and Mac support for purely financial reasons. Atari don't see enough profit in it, and for a company thats been teetering on the edge, its not really surprising.

Depending on when this poll was taken it's fairly believable. Later on in the lifecycle NWN was far more heavilly played by Linux users (well, it was newer for them by a year :P) and I suspect it was mostly Linux users who brought the expansion modules (competition? what competition?).

Is there anything to back this up, or is this just wild speculation based on the people you personally know? I know many slashdotters are very pro linux, but claims like this are a bit over the top without some provable basis.

Re:NWN may still come to Linux

[crossmr]

Last I heard they did the engine in DirectX this time around instead of OpenGL, which is why it won't goto Linux. Since it has gone gold, I don't see them suddenly turning around and saying "You know what...lets change our entire engine". For it to goto Linux at this time, someone would have to be hired to write a full port.

Re:NWN may still come to Linux

[shutdown -p now]

It was so because many NWN players also host their own servers (public PWs, or small private servers for themselves & their friends to play), and most NWN servers run on Linux, not Windows.

The future of gaming?

[RichPowers]

"On top of that, you can spend 600 Microsoft points (GBP 5.10 / EUR 6.98) on an "Advance Pack" which adds 22 new skins (as well as adding a golden yacht to Tetsuya Mizuguchi's berth at Tokyo harbour, presumably)."

This microdownload stuff is complete bullshit. There was a time when devs would include this content with the original purchase, but I guess it's passé to nickel and dime your customers with these downloads.

I didn't buy that horse armor and I sure won't be buying this.

Re:The future of gaming?

[Winterblink]

Funny thing is, up until now the average *game* on XBLA has been 600 points or less. This is just absurd. Looks like there's no reason to throw out my PSP after all...

Re:The future of gaming?

[sottitron]

You know what else is funny? They call Lumines Live for 1200 points the "FULL VERSION"

Re:The future of gaming?

[Anonymous Coward]

You misspelled "Nintendo DS."

I sold my PSP and my collection of 40 movie UMDs after it became clear that UMD was untenable as a distribution format.

Re:The future of gaming?

[Anonymous Coward]

This microdownload stuff is complete bullshit. There was a time when devs would include this content with the original purchase, but I guess it's passé to nickel and dime your customers with these downloads.

If you think things were better in the "good old days", you're deluding yourself. Remember Origin and their "speech packs", where you were expected to pay another £20 for a few minutes of spoken dialogue in your game?

(Oh, and I suggest you invest in a dictionary before you try to use words like "passé".)

Re:The future of gaming?

[twistedsymphony]

Bankshot Billiards was 1200 points, and most games are 800 points not 600. The only games that are less then 800 are ports of old classics (Pac Man Dig-Dug Joust, etc.) or simple card games (Uno, Spades, etc.). The only exception was Geometry Wars which was priced lower then 800 points a game of that quality would normally go for.

Does the price honestly surprise you when you consider the price of the PSP version? Does it surprise you when you consider that the Xbox 360 version includes new content that the PSP version doesn't have?

400 MP = $5.00 USD

Lumines on the PSP currently costs $20
IIRC It debuted at $45

Lumines on the 360 will cost $15
The Extra content will run you $7.50 for a total price of $22.50

So lets recap: It's debuting on the 360 with extra content for HALF of what it cost new on the PSP and only $2.50 more then the bargain bin price that the PSP version is today.
Just because it's distributed on XBLA doesn't mean it's not worth as much money as it's PSP counterpart. I would think the online features and ease of running it from your console without a disc alone are well worth the extra $2.50, not to mention you can get it cheaper if you're not interested in the extra content.

Re:The future of gaming?

[Saige]

OK. How about they just sell the game with the extra content for 1800 instead. Is that preferable?

Ever thhink that they're going this route so that you can get most of the game for less, and only get the other chunk of content if you want it?

You know, if they took a $40 game and broke it up into 4 pieces which they sold at $10 each, I'm sure we'd see a ton of bitching here about how they're just trying to get more money out of people.

IF YOU DON'T WANT THE CONTENT, DON'T BUY IT.

Re:The future of gaming?

[technos]

I rather enjoy my PSP for video, even if the horrible UMD format is gone.

It's killer easy to pop whatever I am currently watching on a memory stick, no matter if it's fansubbed anime, from a DVD, or something I missed on TV the night before. Even in Linux or Mac OS. Windows folks have it even easier.

And if I get bored with whatever I happen to have on it, I can always pop in a game, or browse the web, or listen to some music.

It's not just for watching overpriced UMD movies.

Re:The future of gaming?

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact that is "new" on the 360 is moot. Guess what? Pac-Man is new to the 360 too, but should I be expected to pay whatever it cost when it was actually a new game? Then factor in the fact that for the PSP version you are also paying for the UMD, packaging, and transport. The 360 version has none of that unless you consider the bandwidth to be your 'transportation'... but that's what I'm paying for already with my Live subscription + cable internet. So they slap in some new content and can suddenly expect to charge me full price again? Why shouldn't I just wait for Lumines 2 on the PSP instead? Seems like the better value to me.... all new content, portable, I physically own it, and I can sell it if I get bored with it.

Also, where did you get your numbers from? I haven't looked at the downloads myself, but the Wired article states that the currently available content already costs "nearly $24" and that the missing VS CPU and mission mode prices are not yet known.

One final question, are the same twistedsymphony from the Xbox-Scene forums?

Re:The future of gaming?

[Anonymous Coward]

Give me a break. All I hear is people whining about this crap. The base game over Xbox Live Arcade is 1/3 the price the PSP game was at release, and it won't be sold out at every single store on earth for the next 3 months. Even after you buy all the content packs, it still comes out to be slightly cheaper than the original PSP game price.

Re:The future of gaming?

[jared9900]

Well to your $40 dollar game broken up into 4 pieces comment: The new Sam & Max games, not much complaints about those yet (except for the Gametap complaints). That's $9 a piece or $35 for all, or the Gametap subscription to get each one as they come out just not to own.

Also look at Oblivion, if you bought it earlier this year for say $50 in the store. Now they're rereleasing it, probably for $50 again, with the additional content so the folks who bought it early are getting ripped off because they *have* to purchase the new content individually if they want it.

Re:The future of gaming?

[twistedsymphony]

The fact that is "new" on the 360 is moot. Guess what? Pac-Man is new to the 360 too, but should I be expected to pay whatever it cost when it was actually a new game? Then factor in the fact that for the PSP version you are also paying for the UMD, packaging, and transport. The 360 version has none of that unless you consider the bandwidth to be your 'transportation'... but that's what I'm paying for already with my Live subscription + cable internet. So they slap in some new content and can suddenly expect to charge me full price again? Why shouldn't I just wait for Lumines 2 on the PSP instead? Seems like the better value to me.... all new content, portable, I physically own it, and I can sell it if I get bored with it.

I think when a game comes out a short period later, when it is still relevant is different when it's an old game re-released. Pac Man has been out for years and years, Lunines has been out a short time. When GTA was re-released on the Xbox it went for full price despite the fact that the PS2 version had gone down in price at that point. Similarly when Halo came out on the PC it went for full price despite the fact that it had dropped in price on the Xbox. When Oblivion comes out on the PS3 it will go for full price despite the fact that it's been out for a year on the PC and Xbox 360 and has dropped in price.

Even still you're NOT paying full price for Lumines, despite the fact that they COULD charge full price they're charging closer to the current reduced price instead. My point is that it might be expensive in comparison to other XBLA games but it's a valid price point when compared to other late platform crossing titles. It's well worth the price for someone like me who has really wanted to play this game but didn't think it was worth buying a PSP just for it.

... and yes I'm the same TS as on Xbox-scene

Re:The future of gaming?

[Anonymous Coward]

This biggest difference I see with your examples of GTA and Oblivion is that with those you still have media, packing, and transport costs I mentioned earlier. You also physically own something that can be sold later. And I disagree with your idea of "full price". If the current cost of its PSP sibling is $20 then that is full price. You could argue the fact that there is new content, but the fact it doesn't have the costs I mentioned above should counter that. Then factor in that you can't re-sell it and it's not portable and it hardly seems like such a bargain anymore.

Lumines is a fantastic game and I can see why you would be OK with the price since you don't have a PSP, but for those of us that do have the game it's just too much... especially with Lumines 2 on the horizon. I also think the pricing goes against what I thought was the very idea of Live Arcade. I thought the purpose was to give gamers cheap, fun games and developers an outlet to create and sell relatively cheap games instead of the spending the multi-millions it normally costs to get a game to store shelves. But with Lumines Live we are being given a port of a game that is more than a year old and being asked to pay the same as what it would cost to buy it off the shelf in a store... without the benefit of physically owning it and without the portability factor. I might have been able to swallow $15 for everything, but $20+ after buying all the chunks is too much for the Live Arcade IMO.

I also hate the fact that it's being sold in chunks. I don't mind map packs and the the like, but entire modes extra? That's just lame. This has the same stink on it as the scheme Sony is planning to pull with the next Gran Turismo. I really, really, really don't want to see games taken down this road. Imagine if they start selling FPS games this way... where the single player and multiplayer are sold seperately. Hell, why not make co-op an extra $10 purchase too? An idealistic person might think that sounds good, after all, if you're only interested in the single player campaign why should you have to pay for multiplayer? But that's a very slippery slope. It will lead to developers breaking games into as many pieces as possible. Again, I reference the next Gran Turismo... EACH car is a seperate purchase??? The tracks too???? Are you fvcking kidding me!? If you take the same scheme and apply it to the ever popular FPS genre then we might one day be buying each weapon in a game... and for a game that classes/jobs (sniper, medic, infantry, etc...) we might be buying each class separate too. The next Gran Turismo is proof that this idea is not far fetched and Lumines Live is a good example of the fact that developers are ideed willing to break game modes up into different purchases.

What's sad is that both of these games are so popular that these schemes will likely work. Then other developers will take that as the green light to start doing the same to more games. It's bad enough that there has been so much talk recently about inserting more advertising into games, but now we will likely see games that are not only loaded with advertising but also sold in pieces. We, as gamers and consumers, are going to get raped if this continues.

Anyway, at this point, it's looking unlikely I'll buy Lumines Live unless the wife wants it. If the price was $15 and more in line with the rest of the arcade games then I'd be all over it. But considering the price and my disdain for games sold in pieces my money will be better spent on Lumines 2 for the PSP.

Re:An elderly relative has died and left you a cas

[ben there...]

The problem with all the 360 content has been that the various quests/items/lairs etc have just been given to you via notes or something. Which seems pretty damn contrived.

Yeah, I read some posts on TES forums saying that they probably did that so people would easily notice that the mod they bought worked, right at the beginning of the game.

It's still pretty stupid.

Re:Passé

[onkelonkel]

you keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

Re:Passé

[mr.capaneus]

Why don't you fill us all in on what you are talking about there, chief.

Re:Passé

[Anonymous Coward]

He's saying that the parent used the word "passé" incorrectly, boss. (Which is true.)

I was looking forward to NWN2...

[Anonymous Coward]

but the way Atari handled the cancellation of the direct download program for NWN1 left me with a very bad feeling towards them. Obsidian has also proven themselves to be a company that will bend over and release and incomplete game just to get it out for Christmas rather than complete it right (KOTOR2).

I think I'll wait for a while and see how NWN2 turns out rather than rush out and hand over my hard earned dollars.

Re:An elderly relative has died and left you a cas

[DittoBox]

An elderly relative has died and left you a castle

Sounds like a 419 scam to me. I don't trust it.

Re:An elderly relative has died and left you a cas

[DesireCampbell]

but you must defeat the Knights of the Nine to claim it.

But where am I going to find a shrubbery at this hour? Aw, screw "it"!

De Rigueur

[spun]

Passé means exactly the opposite of the original poster's intent. It means out of style. I think he meant de rigueur: Required by the current fashion or custom; socially obligatory.

Re:De Rigueur

[Lemmy Caution]

Probably the better term would be au courant.

Don't buy NWN2

[Anonymous Coward]

SWEET! We finally get to play the rehashed crap that is still way more dumbed down than the game that Neverwinter Nights should have been in the first place!

WOOOOOHOOOOO

A comic strip related to Linux port.

[antdude]

See UserFriendly's comic strip from Monday, 10/16/2006. :)

Re:Passé

[Anonymous Coward]

I think what he's saying, big guy, is that "passé" means out of style, and the OP seemed to be trying to say just the opposite of that.

NWN will NOT come to Linux (or Mac)

[frankie]

Look at the date stamps for those quotes. The ones saying "sure, we'd love to do Linux and Mac, and we're talking to Atari" are all dated about TWO YEARS AGO, way back before they had even settled on a design spec. And the one saying "if you want a port, post your support on AtariCommunity.com" is over a year old.

How many words about Linux or Mac have either Obsidian or Atari spoken since that time? Zero. None. Nada. Zilch. Instead, we have learned that the new graphics engine is entirely based on DirectX, there is no OpenGL code path, and the toolset is written in C#.

NWN2 is a Windows-only game. There is no maybe. Personally, I'm still going to buy NWN2, right after I install BootCamp on my not-yet-existing Core2 MBP, which will probably be in April.

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Kjella]

The request is years old. It's written for DirectX9 only, with a toolkit in C#. It can't be ported unless it's completely rewritten. That decision is now taken ages ago.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[bWareiWare.co.uk]

c# is an open standard with a decent Linux implementation (mono). Winelib has some DirectX9 support but they would probably want to talk to TansGaming.

They initially ported their engine from OpenGL to DirectX with the hope of a non-existent 360 release. Porting it back may not be too hard, it is a graphically simple 2.5d engine. With the Wii and PS3 to consider, adding a OpenGL rendering path would seem a good idea. NWN had a very long tail on Linux and they are presumably hoping to licence their engine as before.

Ok, about expansions

[Anonymous Coward]

I have Oblivion for the 360. I don't get it. If I buy the Knights of the Nine expansion DVD, how does it interact with the existing game? Do I need to put both DVD's in the 360 for this to work?

Re:Ok, about expansions

[Is0m0rph]

It will be a download you buy. It saves to the hard drive and Oblivion will load it up automatically. Same as the downloads you can get for it now.

Guild Wars: Nightfall also coming out (Oct 27)

[mbourgon]

Since, for us RPG folk (and yes, GW does count) NWN and GW:N are coming out 4 days apart. Followed by Gothic 3 sometime in the fall, as well as Dark Messiah of Might and Magic. (Oh, and can't forget Sam & Max, but that's not an RPG)

Me? I'm getting NWN2 the day it comes out, and when I finish it (and start waiting for mods from Stefan Gagne (Penultima, Penultima Rerolled), Adam Miller [Shadowlords, Dreamcatcher], etc ) I'll get GW:N, which ought to have the "opening day" bugs worked out. It's a good time to be an RPG fan.