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Oblivion Expansion Confirmed

The rumored first 'real' expansion to Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion has been confirmed. Shivering Isles will be available for the Xbox 360 and PC versions of the game, with the expansion available as a download for 360 owners. In additional Oblivion-related news, GameSetWatch made a point to single out the double-layering of content for the PS3 version of the game. The title (due out next month with all 'add-ons' included) overcomes the slow speed of Blu-ray discs via a simple kludge: putting the content on there twice. From the article: "A perceptive comment from 'Marvin' is worth reprinting: "You'd automate the duplication at the image creation stage to avoid any stale data problems. People have done this on other platforms before for the same reasons - particularly the PSP, with its horrible UMD seek times. However, it does rather negate the whole increased storage capacity advantage."

61 comments

  1. More oblivion by 0racle · · Score: 4, Funny

    Isn't expanding oblivion just creating more of nothing?

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    1. Re:More oblivion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As if geeks weren't oblivious enough already.

  2. More lore by Drakin020 · · Score: 0

    I really wish they would bring more "Lore" into the game. Just like in Morrowind it was fun exploring dungeons and what not., but in Oblivion it's like...the same thing. I don't get the thrill out of explorering the world like I did with Morrowind.

    --
    The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    1. Re:More lore by Pojut · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's strange, I feel the opposite...I despised exploring in morrowind yet I LOVE just running around Oblivion's countryside...

      If you are looking for more lore, I HIGHLY HIGHLY suggest you turn yourself into a book whore...there are so many hundreds of books to read in Oblivion (as well as in Morrowind) many of which are actual series..."book hunting" can be VERY fun, and some of the books are quite entertaining...

      I would actually be willing to PAY for a hardbound book which contained all the stories and writing featured both in morrowind and oblivion (as in, willing to buy each one seperately, one for Morrowind and one for Oblivion)

      Seriously, spend some time reading the books ingame....some really really cool stuff can come about.

    2. Re:More lore by CaptainPinko · · Score: 1

      You missed the joke: it is a pun on the word "oblivion" which means "nothing".

      --
      Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
    3. Re:More lore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, there's always the books. There's a huge amount of great stuff in them.

        But this expansion IS more "lore." The Shivering Isles is the Realm of Sheogorath, Daedric Lord of Madness. 'Till now, you've only gotten to explore the Deadlands, which is the Realm of Mehrunes Dagon, Daedric Lord of Destruction and Change. He's the one backing the invasion of Cyrodiil (which is the culmination of a long-term plot of his going back millenia -- check some of the books) and so the gates always led to his realm, with the fires and the black rock and the oceans of boiling blood..

        Now we get this news.. A chance to visit one of the coolest, funniest, and scariest of the Daedric Lords? Count me in!

        Let's hope they do another expansion that lets you visit one of the other realms. Hermaeus Mora's Apocrypha would be easy, but I'm not sure what you'd do with an infinite library full of specters.. Vaermina's realm, Quagmire, would be more-or-less impossible to pull off -- it's a series of living nightmares. I think Azura's plane, Moonshadow, would be cool to see.. We'll just have to wait and see, I guess.
        I was getting a little peeved at the lameness of some of the official content releases for a while there, but Knights of the Nine was well worth the download, and now this.. Sweet!

        - mantar

    4. Re:More lore by Fallingcow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Each of the Dwemmer ruins in Morrowind had its own character. I can still remember maybe 10 different ones, and where they were on the map. Finding a new one was a treat.

      Furthermore, each region of the island felt different, and the archetecture of each region was unique and often grand.

      The ruins (I can't even remember the name of the people who built them... "A"-something-or-other) in Oblivion are BORING. I hated having to enter them for quests. Maybe one or two were actually fun. The only end-to-end great dungeon in the game was the one for the last Thieves' Guild quest. Oh, and the last area for the main quest, if you count that as a dungeon.

      The Oblivion Gates were cool, and damn scary the first time, but they, too, lacked individuality.

      Most of the towns had similar looks. Same buildings, different roof texture. Boring. Even the imperial city somehow didn't feel nearly as grand as that castle to the west of the capitol (man, I have to play it again, I've forgotten all the names!) or a couple of the wizard fortresses in Morrowind. I can't pinpoint exactly why this was the case; it's just how it felt to me.

      And it had 3 regions: Marsh, Mountains, and Plains. Morrowind had a much more finely-grained geography; there was a marked difference even between the three major "volcanic" areas (North of the Ghost Gate, inside the Ghost Gate, and South of it all the way down to the coast), and the east and west sides each had at least 3 distinct areas; in fact, the West probably had 5. And that's not counting Solstheim, so they managed that much variety without a single "snowy" region!

      Oblivion's people seemed far more "alive" than Morrowind's, but its ruins (and other dungeons), buildings, and land were very bland. The combat was great, though, and sadly may have spoiled me for any future Morrowind replays :(

    5. Re:More lore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if you don't mind putting some effort into it, you can (style if you wish, and) print them out for offline reading, or just view them online at the Unofficial Elder Scrolls Pages (a GREAT resource, btw):

      Books in Morrowind
      Books in Oblivion

      I find myself just sitting back and reading through them from time to time, even though I can't say I do much reading IRL. It's just amazing how much they add to the story, half the game is in the books.

    6. Re:More lore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ruins (I can't even remember the name of the people who built them... "A"-something-or-other) in Oblivion are BORING. Ayleids. Add the Deadlier Traps plugin and run through some of those at a higher level. They're much more entertaining when you can't just walk through the traps. I like them. Lots of puzzles and crazy traps -- I wish there were fewer monsters in them so I could enjoy trap-dodging and puzzle-solving more.

      Most of the towns had similar looks. Same buildings, different roof texture. Not a fan of architecture, I see. None of them are big mushrooms, but there are big differences in building materials and styles between the cities if you have an eye for that sort of thing. But hey, point ceded -- Vvardenfell had bigger variety in exotic building styles -- it is a strange place out in the hinterlands of Tamriel..

      And it had 3 regions: Marsh, Mountains, and Plains. Okay, now you're missing the different forest regions and my favorite area, the grasslands of the Gold Coast .. Rolling yellow hills, and all. Those mountain regions come in snow-covered and green, too. You notice the different regions better if you're big on alchemy hunting, I think -- most of the better ingredients are highly specific to particular regions.
        I think it's harder to spot the different regions in Oblivion because the landmass is much wider, and the wilderness engine improved, so they were able to blend the edges of the regions together more smoothly than in Morrowind. The sparse woodlands of southern Colovia extend north into the southern edges of the dense green forests north of Skingrad, and you could easily miss the transition.

        The volcanic regions of Morrowind felt rather samey to me.. I noticed the grazelands, the ashlands, the Bitter Coast swamps, and the rocky islands of the north and east.. Red Mountain felt more like a dungeon, like Oblivion, than a natural region to me.. I mostly treated it that way -- running through quickly and getting it over with. Exploring a place where I can't see crap isn't much fun, IMO.. But it's blue-skies there after the quest, and now it looks like the ashlands...
        -- mantar
    7. Re:More lore by Drakin020 · · Score: 0
      I feel the same way. Every section of Morrowind was unique. There was one dungeon, I think for the main quest where you had to go up this spiral walkway (Below being sort of a lake) and recover this...Bow I think it was? It was on the western side of morrowind, but it was one of the most interesting dungeons. I loved just looking around at it's glory and the way it was designed. Just looking up and seeing how this place was...Gave me a true feeling of exploration.

      I feel the same way in that Oblivion is just the same thing....You can go to one side of the world and see the same as the other side. Each dungeon while different in a sense was really...the same thing, just layed out differently. I know I am saying the same thing you did it just feel good that someone see's it like I do. I wish people at Bethesda would read this and make future Elder Scroll games like Morrowind. If you combine Morrowind and Oblivion you would have a real treat.

      --
      The greatest revenge in life is massive success.
    8. Re:More lore by Hitto · · Score: 1

      Here, I just saved you a few bucks : The Imperial Library

  3. programming waste by cpearson · · Score: 1

    Even with HDDVD and BlueRay game developers are going to have to start writing more elegant games or they will end up using up there new 50+ gig media without adding much real value to the game.

    --
    Windows Vista Help Forum
    1. Re:programming waste by smartyknickers · · Score: 1

      aw no thats hardly fair - I feel the richness and immersion into Oblivion's environment would be significantly better with some higher-res textures (anything to make the mid-distance terrain look un-lame!) and I don't really mind the footprint growing toward 50Gb to make that happen..

      --
      www.smartyknickers.com - find lingerie quickly;
    2. Re:programming waste by Deltaspectre · · Score: 1

      Not sure about you, but I'd rather have more content in that extra space than more graphics...

      If you're spending a significant portion of the game thinking the graphics could be better, then it needs more and/or better content.

      --
      My UID is prime... is yours?
    3. Re:programming waste by nten · · Score: 1

      Suggested solutions have been targeted at procedurally generated models and textures to my knowledge, but the real killer for oblivion was the voices. Convincing text to speech would have halved the size of oblivion at least from what I've read. Even if it wasn't perfectly convincing, something that you could suspend your belief on would be sufficient. Would kinda hurt voice actors a bit.

      --
      refactor the law, its bloated, confusing and unmaintainable.
    4. Re:programming waste by ben+there... · · Score: 1
      Not sure about you, but I'd rather have more content in that extra space than more graphics...

      I think the GP was referring to the distant LOD textures in Oblivion, known by modders as "pea soup" because the line between nearby high quality textures and distant low quality textures is so extreme. Also tiling patterns within land textures are a problem with the stock textures. Those are probably the 2 biggest problems with the graphics in the game, likely to accomodate weaker systems, but they really stand out in contrast to an otherwise beautiful game. The LOD system is actually a great improvement over the fog that obscured distant lands in Morrowind, but the technique needs to fit seamlessly with the rest of the terrain.
    5. Re:programming waste by ivan256 · · Score: 1

      Ironically, you can make the distance look better by doing less HDR crap in the foreground. The added shininess in the forground draws out the difference between the close stuff and the distant stuff. Besides, once you get over the "Ohh, that's new!" of the HDR lighting, you realize that it actually looks less realistic, and, if you're like me, it starts to piss you off anyway. It's just another hack so we can continue to pay nVidia and ATI for their existing IP that renders flat surfaces really well instead of moving forward and actually giving surfaces some depth.

  4. Looking forward to it by Sciros · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Well, given that Bloodmoon was one of my favorite expansions for any game ever, I do have high hopes for this one. Hopefully it will incorporate some of the improvements mods have made, such as the auto-leveling rubbish. I'm assuming this place will be cold as well (yay for being a Nord) but I'm also hoping it will have just a tad more variety in terms of landscape than Cyrodiil did. I mean, good golly, a land mass so big but so homogenous... that's a big part of why Morrowind is liked more by so many. I like how the announcement also takes a stab at PS3 and Blu-ray's read time problems :-) The criticism just never stops. Though I guess that's what happens when you strap a jet engine onto an elephant and call it a sports car.

    --
    I like basketball!!1!
  5. Theoretically, seek times should be better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Theoretically, seek times should be better with Blu-Ray because the data is packed on a layer more densely than with a DVD. So moving a 1GB forward should involve less physical movement with a Blu-Ray disc than with a DVD.

    The fact that Sony managed to make it so that this ISN'T true with Blu-Ray somehow fails to surprise me. It seems like everything they did to the PS3 to try and make it "more powerful" winds up making it slower.

    1. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by NonSequor · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Blu-ray drive in the PS3 only spins at 2x speed. Even with the density advantage of Blu-ray it ends up only giving slightly better transfer rates than the 4x DVD drive in the PS2. The 360 uses a 12x DVD drive and I can't find any information on the speed of the Wii's drive, but it's probably also somewhere in the neighborhood of 12x.

      The Blu-ray drive's slow transfer rate is only made worse by the fact that high definition games have to pull a lot more data off of the disc and the hack discussed in the article will only improve the seek time. I can't help but think that Sony going with Blu-ray at this point in time was ill-advised. If Blu-ray were a bit more mature they would have faster drives. As it is now, they're trading speed for capacity and games REALLY need speed and if they lack capacity it's generally feasible to spread the game across multiple discs.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    2. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by feepness · · Score: 1

      The Blu-ray drive's slow transfer rate is only made worse by the fact that high definition games have to pull a lot more data off of the disc and the hack discussed in the article will only improve the seek time. I can't help but think that Sony going with Blu-ray at this point in time was ill-advised. If Blu-ray were a bit more mature they would have faster drives. As it is now, they're trading speed for capacity and games REALLY need speed and if they lack capacity it's generally feasible to spread the game across multiple discs.

      Every game I have played on the PS3 has offered to install itself to the harddrive. I can easily delete unused games.

    3. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by NonSequor · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm sure that works great for most games. But if a game exceeds 20GB, you won't be able to copy it onto the 20GB models and it'll still be cumbersome on the 60GB models. I'm guessing that the PS3 version of Oblivion must be large enough that a lot of people wouldn't want to copy it to their hard drive if they're looking for hacks to improve seek time.

      Given the amount of money the Blu-ray drive costs, I don't think it sufficiently benefits the gaming capabilities of the PS3. They could have made something clever instead like a DVD drive with two lasers in order to read both sides of a double sided DVD. Then they'd get 17GB per disc and vastly better performance. But instead they foisted an immature technology on the PS3 in order to try to prop up Blu-ray (and I'm not even sure that Blu-ray needed to be propped up in the first place).

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    4. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Given the amount of money the Blu-ray drive costs, I don't think it sufficiently benefits the gaming capabilities of the PS3. They could have made something clever instead like a DVD drive with two lasers in order to read both sides of a double sided DVD. Then they'd get 17GB per disc and vastly better performance. But instead they foisted an immature technology on the PS3 in order to try to prop up Blu-ray (and I'm not even sure that Blu-ray needed to be propped up in the first place).

      If they would have done that, the first question would be WTF do we need Blu-Ray anyway? 17GB of VC-1/H.264 would be enough for a great HDTV experience...

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by Logik9bar · · Score: 1

      Some game developers have been doing this for years to speed up load times on ALL consoles that use optical media. Less seeks = more throughput.

    6. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by Panzergheist · · Score: 1

      You know, this really needs to be addressed. It's been bothering me just how many people on /. are so misinformed about optical drive speeds. Comparing a "12x" DVD drive to a "2x" Blu-Ray drive is misleading as the uninformed will assume that the former is much faster than the latter. Let's put this into perspective:

      A single speed (1x) DVD drive is rated at approximately 1.35 MB/second. That means that a 12x drive will theoretically reach approximately 16.2 MB/second maximum transfer rates.

      A single speed Blu-Ray drive is rated at approximately 4.5 MB/second. That means a 2x drive will theoretically reach approximately 9 MB/second sustained transfer rates.

      This means that a 2x Blu-Ray drive is equivalent in speed to an 8x DVD-ROM drive. Hardly a performance slouch, and if you also factor in the difference between maximum and sustained transfer rates, the performance is really on par with a 12x DVD drive.

      For reference:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc
      http://kb.iu.edu/data/adme.html
      http://www.answers.com/topic/dvd-drives (keep in mind, they list drives faster than 12x for DVD, which currently is not possible)

    7. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by Panzergheist · · Score: 1

      This is what I get for not previewing my own comment before submitting.

      The max drive speed for DVD is NOT 12x.

      (I need more coffee now...)

    8. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by NonSequor · · Score: 1

      I looked at the same numbers you did before making my post. I did make a miscalculation when I said that the 2x Blu-ray drive is only slightly faster than a 4x drive, but otherwise I stand by my assertion that the Blu-ray drive is underperforming compared to what Sony could have gotten by using DVD.

      The 12x DVD drive has 1.8 times the max transfer rate of the 2x Blu-ray drive. I don't see how you can say that isn't a substantial difference. Also, (2*4.5)/1.35=6.67 not 8, so it's a stretch to say that the Blu-ray drive is equivalent to an 8x DVD drive. I also don't see how you are able to conclude that the difference between the two drives will be less prominent when comparing average transfer rates. I can't find any information to suggest that the average transfer rates wouldn't be roughly proportional to the max transfer rates. As such, I can only assume that load times will be roughly 1.8 times longer for a PS3 game running from Blu-ray than for a similarly implemented game on the 360.

      --
      My only political goal is to see to it that no political party achieves its goals.
    9. Re:Theoretically, seek times should be better by Panzergheist · · Score: 1

      Yes, I miscalculated the speed myself when comparing the two. However, I still don't see it as being as big of a difference as most seem to be making it out to be. Hell, the original Xbox got by with a 2x - 5x DVD-ROM drive. Load times were reduced by caching to the HDD. Which, by the way, is the same way the Xbox360 and PS3 reduce load times.

      I do own both the Xbox360 and the PS3, and the load times for each appear almost the same. Albeit, this is my own opinion of the matter. Without getting further into very subjective arguments, I will say that I made my point above, and apart from the broken math, I stand by my statements.

  6. Hmmm by Y-Crate · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Does it include an option to disable scaling the environment? Pretty please?

    1. Re:Hmmm by Danse · · Score: 0, Flamebait
      Does it include an option to disable scaling the environment? Pretty please?

      Already have mods for this. FranOOOMMM makes Oblivion about 10 times more enjoyable. I feel sorry for XBox players... naah.. not really... :)
      --
      It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
    2. Re:Hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try the "No Obsolete Loot or Enemies" plugin if you just want to avoid bandits in full daedric and dungeons full of high-level-only monsters. If you want something more drastic, there's "Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul." It'd be cool if they did what the former did, so Xbox players could avoid that stuff, but I'm a PC player, so I don't really give a crap -- it's already fixed here. Give me NEW QUESTS!

    3. Re:Hmmm by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1

      I hated the game when it came out. However, I just recently reinstalled, and now I can't be happer thanks to two plugins. Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul and AF Leveling Mod. The former balances content by reassigning level ranges for all NPC's, and also changes treasure chests to give out neat static rewards, which brings back "lucky finds" of Morrowind (just tonight I found an awesome two-handed electrified sword two levels down in a dungeon, and I had to stop there because I ran into one thug who was kicking my ass pretty much every time). The latter fixes the completely broken vanilla leveling system by allowing you to select from one of six saner leveling options at the begining of the game, without worring about gimping your charactor because you didn't get solid x5 multipliers. Those two, plus BTMod to make the user interface PC friendly, are all the mods I use, and I love it.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
    4. Re:Hmmm by default+luser · · Score: 1

      I have to agree, OOO re-defined Oblivion and made it fun. Without mods, random mobs were leveled based on your character level, so you're not really challenged early on in the game. The problem is, unless you level perfectly, as you gain levels the random enemies get tougher and tougher. I ended up giving up after level 20, I just couldn't keep up.

      But OOO is really all you need. Here's why:

      OOO brings a bit of randomness back into the game: monsters are generated on a random level scale with a maximum cap. This means you can actually meet difficult monsters you cannot beat (so run away already!), but eventually you can surpass even the toughest monsters in an area. Thus, you don't really need the AF Leveling Mod.

      In addition, OOO adds improved AI and brand-new enemies. There are also roving bands of warriors, or encounters with battles already in-progress, making the game feel more lively.

      There's also less NPC "equipment escalation" than there was in un-modded Oblivion, which means you have to work harder to find rare items. You still find rare items on dead NPCs, but it's much later in the game, and much less frequent. I've found in this play-through that I've spent a lot more time browsing shops, and a bit more money actually PAYING for armor, which makes the game more challenging. Among other things, it has encouraged me to complete the Thieve's Guild quests that I ignored before, both because of the rare finds, and the extra cash.

      I started over about a month ago, and now I cannot get enough of the game.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

  7. Old News by jnials · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This was in the print edition of PC Gamer I received in the mail over a week ago. How is this new?

  8. Oblivion already has tons of great content by Kuciwalker · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The problem is that content is crippled by a shitty combat system and a completely ass-backwards levelling system (it practically requires min-maxing). Oblivion is a beautiful but broken game.

    1. Re:Oblivion already has tons of great content by spun · · Score: 1

      Meh. To each his own. I like the combat system. The leveling system has problems, but it doesn't require you to min-max anything. I think what your really trying to say is, the levelling system makes creating uber-characters too much like work. You can get through the story just fine without ever getting a +5 on any stat.

      These issues existed in Morrowind, too. Mods to fix these perceived slights have been released for Oblivion just as quickly. Can't name them off the bat, as I just got the game for Christmas and am playing it through without mods first.

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    2. Re:Oblivion already has tons of great content by Prien715 · · Score: 1

      I think what he's saying about min-maxing is that it's actually easiest to play through the game tagging all the skill you don't use as your primary ones. That way, you can still get better at them relative to enemies since you're no longer gaining levels.

      --
      -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    3. Re:Oblivion already has tons of great content by LurkerXXX · · Score: 1

      I think a few of the UI mods are worth doing, even for your first pass. The keychain and the small-icon inventory mods let you concentrate on playing the game, and spend less time scrolling, and scrolling, and scrolling through your inventory and maps to manage things.

    4. Re:Oblivion already has tons of great content by AlexMax2742 · · Score: 1

      As mentioned in an earlier post, it's quite fixable using AF Leveling mod, and scaling enemies and lack of 'lucky finds' are fixable with Oscuro's Overhaul. I bought the game at release, played it for a few days, saw the shitty leveling and scaling problems and put it way. I reinstalled it a couple of days ago, downloaded those two (and BTMod), and I'm having an absolute blast.

      Only problem is that it's taking me a while to level. I'm using 'one level up for every 10 major skills practiced) and I'm still Level 1, though I'm only 1 or 2 skills away, I've done a few of the begining quests and a few sides and have gotten through a few dungeons, but I haven't really been concentrating on skilling up, so that's probably why.

      --
      I'm the guy with the unpopular opinion
  9. Additions and clarifications by Fallingcow · · Score: 2, Interesting

    By "last area of the main quest" I don't mean Imperial City, I mean the part before that. The part in Imperial City--while GREAT--is hardly a dungeon.

    And I forgot about two other excellent dungeons: the crazy wizard's castle, and the one inside the dude's dreams.

    I mean, there are a lot of great things in Oblivion, and it's one of the best games that I've ever played; it's just that the world itself was, I feel, vastly inferior to that of Morrowind. That, and the reduction of weapon and armor types, are the only two things (well, the only two that aren't fixed by trivial-to-make and thus quick-to-appear-online mods) that bothered me. They just bother me a lot because they're things that they got right in Morrowind, so it seems like such a let-down for them to screw that up, rather than building upon it.

    1. Re:Additions and clarifications by Aladrin · · Score: 1

      I definitely felt the lack of weapons and armor, and the lack of houses and temples for side-quests was missed, but the rest of the game was better in my opinion. Especially the magic system.

      My first attempt at Morrowind:

      Make a spell caster.
      Find a rat.
      Try to cast a spell.
      Run out of mana in 1 spell.
      Die.

      After a short while, I totally gave up. A year later, my friend said to just use my fists. So I made a warrior, and had fun. Not as much as I would have as a mage if the magic system was worth a crap, but fun.

      Oblivion was MUCH better to mages. We could actually fight with magic and expect to win.

      --
      "If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
    2. Re:Additions and clarifications by TempeTerra · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think there was some better voice acting in Morrowind too. Not that Oblivion's was bad, but the voices in Morrowind were more distinctive. The male dunmer in the hold of the ship right at the start of the game was great. I would also say that the main plot in Morrowind was far more inventive. It had the cultists of an insane god spreading a disease that turns its victims into inhumanly strong mutants, or tentacled horrors if they are 'favoured' - plus good political tension between native dunmer and 'outlanders'. Oblivion was more standard high fantasy, and "oh noes the king is dead and demons are everywhere!!oneone".

      Oh, and one more thing. In Morrowind there was good loot which was actually placed in the world rather than being a random drop. In oblivion, to get good armour you have to level up until your enemies carry it, and then kill them. In Morrowind you can get a suit of glass armour from Ghostgate, because it's just sitting there. This might sound trivial if you haven't played both games, but in Morrowind it's exciting to enter a new area so you can see what cool things you can steal when their owners' back is turned. In oblivion there aren't even any decent goods to steal in shops.

      OK, so even though I bitch about Oblivion I clearly played it to death. It's painful to see a well loved franchise move backwards though.

      --
      .evom ton seod gis eht
    3. Re:Additions and clarifications by DrMrLordX · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, anyone smart enough to game the system could use magic to completely dominate Oblivion regardless of the difficulty setting. All you really need is a magicka pool of 400+ and 100+ Willpower for good magicka regen (provided you aren't using uber magicka restoration postions and magicka-leeching spells/items to achieve the same effect). Then you set up custom attack and summon spells that all have a 5-15 second Invisibility (target: self) component. Nothing can ever detect you. You don't even have to use equipment for 100% chameleon. If you felt particularly annoying, you could set your character up to accomplish much of the above at level 2 (or so).

      Even though you appear when casting a combat spell, there's no gap between losing your old invis effect and gaining the new one.

      It was similarly simple to dominate Morrowind by using an Atronach caster plus enchanted items that summoned ghosts. All you had to do was punch the ghost a few times to piss it off, and then let it cast spells at you to absorb the spells for massive amounts of magicka. Recharging the items was simple enough.

    4. Re:Additions and clarifications by Fallingcow · · Score: 1

      Also, in Morrowind, all of the really cool loot was hidden; some would be encountered in quests by necessity, some in quests if you did a little looking on the way to your objective, and some was just plain HIDDEN, no where near any quest routes or dungeons (Dragonbone Cuirass, for instance). If I got something that had an enchantment on it beyond maybe a "1-5 fire damage on hit", I actually felt like I'd gotten something cool.

      The "good" unique items in Oblivion were rarely worth using, because their power was either gimicky or weaker than the crap that I'd already picked up. Hell, for that matter, a bunch of the unique loot levels like the enemies do, so that super-special mage's staff that you got and which was the tool of a great and powerful mage is totally worthless a level or two after you get it, because "random goons #1243-1786" are dropping a staff that's twice as good. Not only did it feel good to be wearing the armor and using the weapons of famous heros and gods in Morrowind, but it was also practical, since it was usually the best stuff that you were going to find, as it should be.

      Looting dungeons in Oblivion gets dull after level 10 or so. "Oh, another Sword of the Infinite Death Flame +80. I guess I'll put it next to the other three that I picked up in the last dungeon. *yawn*"

      Man, I know I rag on this game a lot, and I really did like it. It got a lot of things better than Morrowind did, but not everything, and the things that it did screw up bother me more than Morrowind's did. With Morrowind, I mostly remember with fondness the world (dungeons and all) and the storyline; with Oblivion, I mostly remember a couple dozen REALLY great quests, vaguely paid attention to the main storyline, and most of the side ones, as they were just dull (Mage's guild storyline, anyone? Hell, the main one's not very good, either. Great ending, though :) ), saw the world as one big blur of "blah", and was genuinely irritated by the boring dungeons.

      If they'd just put Morrowind in Oblivion's engine, improve the quests a tad (more creativity), and give the ending a bit more flair, I'd pay them $60 for the resulting game, which would probably be the best PC RPG ever made. Doing it the reverse way, to overhaul Oblivion to the point of perfection, would likely take much, much more work.

    5. Re:Additions and clarifications by oneils · · Score: 1

      The "forbidden grotto?" Is that what you are talking about?

  10. This is because of the map and compass by spun · · Score: 2, Interesting

    In Morrowind, there was no compass leading you to unknown dungeons with handy icons. There was no overland map with fast travel options. When you found a new location in Morrowind, you felt a sense of accomplishement.

    To me, this went well with the mysterious and foreign feel of Morrowind. Cyrodil is supposed to be the heart of the empire, settled for thousands of years. The feeling of familiarity is actually enhanced by the new interface, just as the feeling of foreign mystery was enhanced by the lack of map and compass in Morrowind.

    That said, I've still enjoyed exploring in Oblivion. It's just a bit different. First, you do need to get close to a location before your compass tells you about it, unless you learn of it through a quest or the like. Second, there are still interesting and important places that aren't ever indicated on the map. The doomstones, or the back doors of most dungeons, for instance.

    Finally, in Morrowind, you basically had the swampy bit, the ashy mountainous bit, and the rest all looked the same. In Oblivion, the different areas look very different. But the map and compass do give a very different experience, and exploration is no longer as important or fulfilling as it was in Morrowind.

    --
    - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
    1. Re:This is because of the map and compass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See "Compass Marker Reducer" plugin.. It gets rid of the Giant Red Triangle (tm) and makes the pointers to nearby sites appear at a much closer range. It gets rid of the feeling of smallness that you get with vanilla Oblivion's wilderness -- now I actually have to look out through the trees for bits of white stone if I'm searching for an Ayleid ruin, since you have to be almost on top of them for the marker to show up on the compass. (Much harder in and around the southern forests since those trees have white bark) Caves are even harder to spot, and the marker is sometimes the first sign that I've found one, next to the occassional imp or something in front of it.
        Highly recommended.
        - mantar

    2. Re:This is because of the map and compass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Each of the Dwemmer ruins in Morrowind had its own character. I can still remember maybe 10 different ones, and where they were on the map. Finding a new one was a treat.

      Furthermore, each region of the island felt different, and the archetecture of each region was unique and often grand.

      The ruins (I can't even remember the name of the people who built them... "A"-something-or-other) in Oblivion are BORING. I hated having to enter them for quests. Maybe one or two were actually fun. The only end-to-end great dungeon in the game was the one for the last Thieves' Guild quest. Oh, and the last area for the main quest, if you count that as a dungeon.

      The Oblivion Gates were cool, and damn scary the first time, but they, too, lacked individuality.

      Most of the towns had similar looks. Same buildings, different roof texture. Boring. Even the imperial city somehow didn't feel nearly as grand as that castle to the west of the capitol (man, I have to play it again, I've forgotten all the names!) or a couple of the wizard fortresses in Morrowind. I can't pinpoint exactly why this was the case; it's just how it felt to me.

      And it had 3 regions: Marsh, Mountains, and Plains. Morrowind had a much more finely-grained geography; there was a marked difference even between the three major "volcanic" areas (North of the Ghost Gate, inside the Ghost Gate, and South of it all the way down to the coast), and the east and west sides each had at least 3 distinct areas; in fact, the West probably had 5. And that's not counting Solstheim, so they managed that much variety without a single "snowy" region!

      Oblivion's people seemed far more "alive" than Morrowind's, but its ruins (and other dungeons), buildings, and land were very bland. The combat was great, though, and sadly may have spoiled me for any future Morrowind replays :(


      And the parent:

      Finally, in Morrowind, you basically had the swampy bit, the ashy mountainous bit, and the rest all looked the same. In Oblivion, the different areas look very different. But the map and compass do give a very different experience, and exploration is no longer as important or fulfilling as it was in Morrowind.


      Strange. Can't please everyone.
    3. Re:This is because of the map and compass by popo · · Score: 1

      >
      Finally, in Morrowind, you basically had the swampy bit, the ashy mountainous bit, and the rest all looked the same. In Oblivion, the different areas look very different. But the map and compass do give a very different experience, and exploration is no longer as important or fulfilling as it was in Morrowind."

      Huh? Oblivion is one big forest rendered with SpeedTree. There's one little snowy area up north, and the rest of the game is completely homogenous.

      Morrowind had giant mushrooms, floating jellyfish, ants that laid eggs in eggmines, wizards castles made of plants, propylon indexes, cantons, mongolian yurts, asian looking fishing villages, shipwrecks underwater, etc.

      Oblivion gave us butterflies, deer and tudor houses.

      Oblivion has NOTHING underwater.

      While there were great additions in fighting, Oblivion destroyed the whole concept of RPG levelling with the auto-levelling world. ie: levelling has no point. So why even fight?

      --
      ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
    4. Re:This is because of the map and compass by spun · · Score: 1

      Maybe it's that I do so much alchemy in Oblivion that I notice all the differences. Different trees and different plants, mostly. There is the Black Forest, with pine trees and swamps. There's the Nibaney Valley, with rolling hills, meadows, bushes and few tall trees. There's the northern and easter forested hills, with fewer herbs and bushes but more mixed deciduous and evergreen trees. There's the gold coast with grassy hills and few trees. Then there's the far northern mountains with mostly evergreens. So, I'd say there is a great deal of variety. What there isn't is any of the gee-whiz, that's sure strange looking type landscapes that Morrowind had.

      The architecture is mostly the same, but there are subtle differences. I think that's appropriate in the more homogenous setting of Oblivion. Morrowind had Imperial, Redoran, Hlaalu, Telvani, Dwemer, common, Ashlander, Sixth House, and Velothi architecture. Oblivion only has Imperial, Nord, Akaviri, common, and Oblivion architecture.

      The lack of underwater stuff is disappointing. Kinda makes water-breathing a moot point. In Morrowind, there was some great underwater content. In Oblivion, the lakes and rivers are all barren underwater, but there are a few interesting underwater dungeons.

      Morrowind had auto-leveling, too. But as with Morrowind, the auto-leveling caps at level 20, so there is a point to leveling. Plu

      --
      - None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
  11. Hard Drive? by feepness · · Score: 1

    "A perceptive comment from 'Marvin' is worth reprinting: "You'd automate the duplication at the image creation stage to avoid any stale data problems. People have done this on other platforms before for the same reasons - particularly the PSP, with its horrible UMD seek times. However, it does rather negate the whole increased storage capacity advantage."

    I wonder if Bethseda is aware there is a harddrive on all PS3's that games can be installed to?

    1. Re:Hard Drive? by Babbster · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I wonder if Bethesda is aware how nice it is to be able to have 10 (or, obviously, more) games ready to play at a moment's notice without first deleting data from the hard drive and then installing another game to be played. I'll bet they are...

      I don't know about other console owners, but NOT having to deal with a hard drive installation is one of the [many] things I like about console gaming as opposed to the PC.

      Besides, the advantage of Blu-ray over DVD in terms of gaming is its increased capacity (as I recall, 20GB for single-layer and 40GB for double-layer). The most hard drive a PS3 comes with is 60GB and the junior version is 20GB. That means that if developers takes advantage of all that space, and you decide to install games to the hard drive, you have space for at most 1-3 games (forgetting about downloaded games, the space reserved by the OS, music, video, and whatever else one might want on their PS3). In a long session of playing games on the 360 I've played up to 7 different games - if I have to install to hard drive to get "decent" performance, I could spend more time space-juggling on the HD and less time playing.

      Then again, maybe Sony has a deal with hard drive manufacturers and we're just supposed to buy huge hard drives in order to enjoy the system.

    2. Re:Hard Drive? by gmb61 · · Score: 1

      You can buy a 300GB drive for under $100. I've seen 500GB drives for as low as $140. With that much space you could easily store over 100 games with room to spare. If you are like me and use No-CD cracks on all of your games, then you don't even need to put the game disc in the drive to play any of those 100 games. Just click and go. You can put all the discs away in a safe place and just run completely off the hard drive. IMO, this puts the PC way ahead of consoles.

    3. Re:Hard Drive? by kbolino · · Score: 1

      Small correction: 25GB for single layer and 50GB for double layer (see Wikipedia)

  12. Much Better Idea. by MasterPoof · · Score: 0

    Bethesda should remake Morrowind with the enhancements from Oblivion. If you combined the tech in Oblivion into Morrowind, that game would be phenomenal. Don't get me wrong, Oblivion is good, but it lacks key things that made Morrowind a truly epic game.

    --
    Using GNU/Linux -- Windows-free zone!
  13. Or just read them at the Imperial Library by DoctaWatson · · Score: 1

    The Imperial Library has the full texts of every book that was ever in an Elder Scrolls game, and plenty of other good reads about the world of Tamriel.

  14. It would be better if AL worked nicer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but it doesn't. According to info, even weak buggers like liches (HP wise) get 15 HP per level. Best Uber-fighter gets 10 per level (but a boost at first level). So if you level up, the monsters overtake you. Min-maxing helps delay this but makes the middle game too easy. Especially for fighter classes.

    Reduce the magica renewal rate and make top spells (that use most of you magica bar) good enough to take someone out of your level or a little over and the magic is better balanced. Else you need to have either conjuration or destruction in a minor skill so you can spam it up to 75% while still 10 level. That balances out the mage class.

    Drop the thief, unless you can work out a way to allow the user through in a "thiefly way" as much (or better) than DX1 allowed you to find sneak ways. Too often you MUST whack to get on. That turns a thief in to a sneak fighter.

    Then either remove or bump up useless abilities like "athletics" or "acrobatics". Have them do SOMETHING worthwhile. As it is it isn't worth training them so the thief class is even more hosed.

    You should find that as you level up, you meet more big baddies, but you should still be allowed the option of lording it over the wusses who stayed as guards in town. Give them levels high up, captains more so, but don't level them. The wilderness shouldn't be randomly populated with Xivilia or vampires, etc just because you're 20th level: who would survive?

    It may mean that entering an area where you're too weak to survive gets you a message "Don't bother run away now" but that is less of a break from immersion than finding Ogres all over the shop when you've bumped up a lot.