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Epic, Microsoft Disagree On Gears Content
This past week, Epic's VP Mark Rein spoke with the gentlemen at 1up on the '1up Yours' Podcast. It was ... most informative. It seems that the much-delayed downloadable content for Gears of War is being held up by Microsoft, who wants to charge for the content for the game. "In the effort of promoting a profitable marketplace, however, Microsoft's compromised with the studio by deciding to follow the successful model that Halo 2 pioneered a few years ago: the new Gears of War maps will be available for a to-be-determined fee, and made free a few months from now." The site also has hands-on details for 'Annex', the new (free) multiplayer gameplay type.
stuck at work can someone post the content of the article, I need GoW news and I need it now!
The first one is free.
-Rick
"Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
You make a couple million on map fees, and lose a lot of players.
Maybe that's a good trade for them at this point. I dunno.
The problem I have is that most downloadable content seems to be either of the 'here's the stuff that we didn't get to finish before the publisher shipped' or 'Ok, there's 15 maps ready; lock 5 of them off, and we'll put out a 'downloadable content' patch that reenables them in a few months.'
I was flipping through the downloads for Dance Dance Revolution Universe, to see if they had any songs availble here in Canada; DDR Ultramix for the Xbox didn't allow Canadians to buy additional songs. Sure enough, there are, and the downloads are 108 KB. That means they're unlock codes, not new content. That's not right.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Once again, Microsoft shows it is out-of-touch with its users.
Why in the world would they think that this idiocy is a good idea? All it does is show the gamer that they are not, despite the $60 price tag, getting the full game. They are getting a fraction of the game, and then being forced to pay more for the "priviledge" of getting the rest of the content.
I, for one, refuse to pay for my games twice.
This thread contains more insight into the situation from the Epic Games CEO:
Click here
Full text from his post below:
Folks,
I think you guys are blowing this up into something bigger than it is. Please listen to the entire podcast before jumping to conclusions.
What we have here is simply a difference of opinion on how to maximize the return on Gears of War - something both Epic and Microsoft want to do. While we create products like Gears because we love games, and we have a passion for making them, at the end of the day this is a business for both companies and how we earn our living.
Epic thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to give the maps away for free and Microsoft thinks the way to maximize the return on Gears of War is to sell the maps. So what we've agreed to do is to put these maps on sale at a reasonable price then make them free a few months later. They did this with the original Halo2 map pack and it was a huge success. Lots of people bought the maps and lots of people downloaded them when they became free. That's what is going to happen and it seems like a fair compromise for both companies and a win-win for Gears players.
Why does Epic not have control over this even though we created this content on our own time and our own dime? Quite frankly Xbox Live Marketplace isn't our store. It's Microsoft's store. Like any retailer they have the right to figure out what goes on the shelves of their store and what price they sell it at. They spend the money to operate the store and deliver the content. They've also spent billions of dollars to create and build Xbox and subsidize it's the price so you can afford it and we can make games for it. As our publisher, they also invested tens of millions of dollars marketing Gears of War, and have done an awesome job for us, so they have a right to a good return on that investment.
As Tim Sweeney and I said in the podcast, we want the download economy to work - it is something the industry needs, something we hope to use in the future, something that will help bring more variety to end-users and ultimately could help bring prices down for end-users. If we had to put this map pack on a disc and sell it in retail it would be more expensive to end-users and maybe we wouldn't have done it because of all the extra work and cost involved.
In the mean time we are planning to bring out an awesome new Gears of War multi-player gametype called Annex that works will all of the existing multi-player maps and the new pack we're talking about here. The 1UP guys who got to play it a few weeks ago left the office raving about how it could be our best Gears gametype yet and I think a lot of people will enjoy it. Best of all, it is totally FREE and will come in the new Gears update that we expect to see released this week.
The hookers up my way don't seem to agree.
Clearly MS does understand the market and how far you can push it.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
Man this is getting expensive! First you have the consoles shooting up in prices. Then every periphreal is much more expensive from the controllers to the wifi adaptor. Games are now $60 new. And on top of that you have the whole xbox live thing that is raking in cash re-releasing games that you can download to play on emulators free minus the slick ranking and online features. Am I the only one that thinks the majority of their content is overpriced? Maybe I'm just cheap, but it seems like Microsft is trying to nickle and dime gamers out the wazoo. Additional content is great, but the prices are a bit much IMO. I have the same problem with PC expansions and DS titles, so maybe Microsoft is just like everybody else. But it seems online gaaming has become a way to extract more money from gamers after the initial sale and it's working very well...I just Microsoft and co don't continue to get greedier without the gamers saying enough already.
Gaming for over 25 years
Actually, it's only $70 a year for Xbox Live Gold. You clearly don't know what you're talking about. For the most part, I'm impressed with Live. I get free game videos, demos, arcade games, I get my downloadable content, skins, etc. Gaming online is only so fast as the internet your server is running on, but Live seems to do a good job picking a quick connection for the hosting - the only time I experience lag is when I'm filling my pipe with torrents. I played GoW campaign on Live with a guy from Uzbekistan with decent latency - so before you talk shit, at least try it out.
"I get free game videos, demos, arcade games, I get my downloadable content, skins, etc."
All of that is free on PSN. Why the fuck should anyone have to pay a 60 dollar a year to Microsoft? That ends up adding two to three hundred dollars to the price of the console.
Gears of War is a lagfest. Anyone who claims otherwise is lying. google "gears of war" lag for anyone who wants proof. 60 dollars a year for laggy p2p network gaming vs free dedicated servers with Sony's PSN...
And Halo 3 is going to be just as bad. Only 16 players with no dedicated servers. Welcome to p2p lag hell...
Xbox Live Marketplace isn't our store. It's Microsoft's store. Like any retailer they have the right to figure out what goes on the shelves of their store and what price they sell it at.
Maybe Microsoft should buy a bigger hard drive.
Not sure where you live, but it's $50 for 13 months of X-box Live Gold if you buy the 'Redeamable card' at Retail in the US. Even better, Circuit City puts it on sale for $40 fairly often (I've seen it a few times in the last 6 months, maybe 1 week every 6 it's on sale it's usually on sale the week of a big game release).
That, and I'd like to point out that all the benefits you touted for GOLD are available in the FREE Silver Membership. Right now the main difference is online multiplayer, voice chat. I'm pointing this out, simply because many people simply forget that there is a free version of Live, and it is really good.
Yeech. I had thought the 70 dollars was for the life of the 360. There is no way in hell I want to have to go bargain hunting every year just to re-enable the ability to play games online with the 360.
M$ wants to stop the free modes on the windows side as well how long be they force you pay for live gold just to be able to pay more for a mod / map on a pc game?
All of that is free on PSN. Why the fuck should anyone have to pay a 60 dollar a year to Microsoft? That ends up adding two to three hundred dollars to the price of the console.
Why buy games for that matter? That just increased the price of the console! Why buy extra controllers? Why pay for your electricity bill? All that just adds to the cost of the console!
They do it because it adds value to the system. So the PS3 doesn't charge for it right now...so what? The fact is that the PS3 isn't selling right now so they have to give that for free. If it was selling well, they would charge for it as well as they are providing a service. If the PS3 finally gets enough users...that is when they will add their premium package.
I am console-neutral..don't think this comes from any love of the xbox. I just don't see why other people are freaking out so much about it. 60 dollars a year is nothing to most people. If you can't afford it, don't get the service.
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> The fact is that the PS3 isn't selling right now so they have to give that for free.
The PS3 is selling at a faster rate in all three regions compared to the 360 dimwit...
The 360 is selling to the same lately homo US fratboys who bought the first Xbox...
$400 + $50 dollars a year over five years, $250
$650 dollars for a Xbox 360? Fuck that. The most defect ridden console in history and no dedicated servers and crappy graphics. Tack on 100 more bucks for WiFi. Tack on 200 bucks more for an upgraded harddrive. And don't forget another 50 to 100 bucks for the all important extended warranty...red ring of death...
vs
$500 or $600 for a PS3 with free dedicated servers, the amazing Home online world, easily upgradeable by any store bought harddrive, the most reliable console in history, and the insane graphics from games like Little Big Planet, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Ratchet and Clank...
> that is when they will add their premium package.
Yeah, the old "the PS3 will suck just as bad as the 360" line. Just like clowns like you were saying the PS3 would have the same hardware failures as the 360. Dream on fanboy...
Seems like Microsoft is trying to figure out how they can make consoles cost as much as PCs for gaming. Their answer seems to be that since the XBox is a closed platform, they can charge gamers for everything that PC gamers get for free, as well as jack up prices on peripherals that you could buy a lot cheaper for a PC. Give them another year or two and I think the price gap between the PC and the XBox will have closed quite a bit. I don't personally own an XBox, since I haven't found any compelling reason to buy one when I get a better gaming experience from the PC. I just hear the argument all the time that PCs are just way more expensive. I built a great gaming box for $1500. Yeah, that's a lot, but all I have to buy is the games now. I get online gaming, voice chat, IM, mods, skins, etc., etc. for free, and don't have to pay through the nose for peripherals or unlockable content. Still probably doesn't come out the same dollar-wise, but it's getting closer the more they nickel and dime everyone for everything they can.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
First, it is $50 a year AT MOST for Gold. I got mine for effectively $20 when I bought a camera bundle at Thanksgiving.
If you're going to include the cost of broadband, you might as well include the cost of electricity, your rent, your property taxes, the cost of your tv, your stereo system, etc.
For all you "I already paid $60 for this game, I should get everything ever made for it for free, RIGHT NOW!" Easy there, Verucca.
When they released, "X-men: Director's Cut", did you march down to the store and demand they give you a copy for free because "I already bought that DVD"? Heck, when any DVD of any movie you saw in the theater is released do you demand a copy because "I already paid to see that movie?".
If you are too poor (get a job, loser) or too cheap to pay a couple of bucks for NEW CONTENT (which takes time and money to create and test, not to mention server bandwidth to download), then wait a few months and it will be FREE. In the meantime, try your communist thinking in the real world, and see how far you get. Go to a car dealer a year after you bought your car (I know that assuming some of you actually are old enough to drive let alone financially mature enough to get your own vehicle is a big stretch) and demand all the new features in this year's car model be added to the car you bought for free or a nominal upgrade cost (like some of you idiots were suggesting MS was obligated to do for the Premium). Try it at the electronics store when new tv's come out, too. Or for you, "XBox Live Gold should be free" crowd, try your same reasoning with your phone. You had to buy a phone, then you had to pay to have your phone hooked up (double dipping), then you have to pay to have your phone service every month (triple dipping), and then you have to pay long distance on top of that (quadruple dipping). You shouldn't be screaming at MS, you should be going after AT&T, right? Same with your power, your water, etc. It's all a scam by your twisted logic.
.. which has been introduced recently. And that's that Gold users tend to get certain demos and extra content up to a month earlier than Silver users. I guess they're trying to emphasis the two tier system. Though god knows how they're going to flog Gold to PC owners.
"I get free game videos, demos, arcade games, I get my downloadable content, skins, etc."
I get all that stuff too, without paying for Live or the individual content. I know you have a PC with a web browser, because you're posting on Slashdot...
I am anything BUT a primitive proxy, thanks. ;-)
I for one welcome our smiley faced ASCII overlords from ZZT!
Oh, and ain't Jill of the Jungle hot in CGA?
No one complained when Halo 2 maps came with a charge for the 1st few months, and I imagine that after this story has left the front pages of your favorite web sites, no one will be complaining afterwards. The maps are free after a month or two... if you don't want to pay, then don't. You can still have the maps. My main complaint with downloadable content is when games are shipped INCOMPLETE and then charge you for the content that you should have had to begin with. This happened IMO with the 1st GRAW. The game was incredibly short, and then a few short months later they offered a 2nd campaign for around $15. The 2nd example I can think of would be Lumines Live!, which was a completely gimped download at the regular price with primary game functions available for additional download. MS and Q (I think was the publisher) caught holy hell for that. But to argue that Gears of War was an incomplete game at launch would be ridiculous as evidenced by the fact that it is still (one of the) top played games on Xbox Live today. Add the first TWO FREE MAPS to that package and its more than complete. Four more maps that will eventually be free and a new free gameplay mode is far more than you could have ever hoped for from any publisher, and certainly not the kind of enhanced experience you would have received in the pre-marketplace days (not counting PC gamers.)
The problem I have with most downloadable content is that they (the developer/publisher) probably did not polish the game in the first place. If they did that content would have been in the game. Personally I don't think there is such as thing as a "minimum expectation" of what $60 should buy you. Anything but 110% effort into the game is too little. Taking things out of a game to sell later is just bullshit too, whether or not you remove it from the disc.
In this case I'm a little more forgiving since we are talking about multiplayer maps. Any online game which is going to remain popular for a significant length of time can never have enough maps. It also isn't too hard to concieve that they started making these maps well after the game shipped.
The whole idea of "It's Microsoft's store, so it's their choice blah blah" is ridiculous even though it is true. Microsoft doesn't want to run a marketplace for gamers. They want to be able to fix prices, control who gets to sell what, and to take as much of the pie while doing so (selling both the content and the shelfspace). It doesn't bother them if those goals aren't in the best interest of gamers.
I don't think MS can stop moddable games being released. At worst, only non-GFW labelled games will have mods in the future.
If they start locking down Windows Vista so that only MS-approved games are released, Windows won't be viable for gaming anymore.
How Xbox owners get constantly shafted by Microsoft, yet come back time and time again for more, and religiously defend the console, dispite it's failings.
Nice post, shill.
I'm pretty excited about this, all the people that pay for the maps can be my beta testers for them. Once all the bugs are worked out, and the map holes are fixed, I can download it for free and have better content.
Thanks Microsoft!
This really solidifies my idea of only buying unreal 3 on the PC, I'll get to play the game my way, and I won't have to pay for user created content.
I can hook my PC up to my 50" just as well as my xbox.
Wow. I am impressed by both your lack of reading comprehension and the high level of your hypocrisy!
Support a great indie game: http://www.abaddon360.com