NASA Gears Up for the Regolith Rumble

eldavojohn writes "NASA is holding another scientific challenge to see which autonomous robot can move the most regolith in 30 minutes. The finer details: 'To win the cash prizes for NASA's Regolith Challenge, teams must demonstrate fully autonomous robots capable of collecting at least 330 pounds (150 kilograms) of mock Moon dirt within 30 minutes. Whichever robot moves the most regolith over the benchmark limit, while still meeting contest specifications, wins, NASA said. But in order to compete, lunar regolith excavators must weigh less than 88 pounds (40 kilograms) and run on less than 30 kilowatts of power, according to contest rules.'"

Comments

May the Battle Begin

[Eddi3]

3, 2, 1, FIGHT!!!

Re:May the Battle Begin

[ajanp]

I'm pretty sure that's why they started this competition. I mean, first they just happen to hold a contest to see who can make the best NASA Glove http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/0 5/1249229, and weeks later they come up with a contest to see who can make the strongest, fastest, most efficient robot of them all. They've clearly been watching too many episodes of the Bionic Man.

This is looking like some crazy NASA soup with some Bumfights and a Six Million(?) Dollar Man mixed in, and of course a dash of government institutions realizing the power of the people and private enterprise added for good measure.

Anyways, I'm off to go print me some NASA business cards for my newfound occupation as an independent NASA contractor.

Re:May the Battle Begin

[Anonymous Coward]

It's bad & dumb guau, guau, guau, guau, ..

Are you using RealTime Dynamic A*? QuadCore is precious, 2x2 cores x15Watts/each = 60 Watts at full load.

Has it MOESI protocol for parallel programming?

Re:May the Battle Begin

[Anonymous Coward]

We need 500 elite dogs digging all kind of minerals in the Moon.

There are not better minings until they will find them.

Actually, in the Moon there are 0 minings for the elite miners/diggers.

The dogs use variant A* algorithms and the miners Ant-Mining algorithms.

Each mine digged by the elite dogs is for the country who made it.

I hope that an illegal dog of another country doesn't pass to the diamond mining of a country.

The competitions aren't the patents, copyrightes, etc, the competitions are the peaceful robots surviving in the Moon and the democratic political of the minings.

Re:May the Battle Begin

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm an intelligent boy.

Can carry my dog grenades and T.N.T. dynamites for the competition?

Why not? But it uses <1 Kg and < 1 Watt for the triggers!.

J.C. from Spain.

Re:May the Battle Begin

[Anonymous Coward]

We need a lot of things carefully designed!!!

• Few strategical points for the mobile stations of panels of solar energy with several Kg of (un)pluggable mini-batteries for the autonomous robots. Its autonomy for robots is of many mobile-KW/h for the robots for many years. The robots have their solar panels but are small and are for the self-surviving, not for digging.
• In a near future, the mobile stations of energy solar can be replaced by the chemical plants with the minerals extracted by the mobile diggers. Autonomy: hundreds of mobile-KW/h for many years.
• Next objective: ready mountains of minerals for gigantic robots and gigantic launchers.
• Next level: exploration of the outer-space from the solar system.

J.C. from Spain.

Re:May the Battle Begin

[YayaY]

30 Watt of power, not 30 kilowatt. RTFA!

Re:May the Battle Begin

[Fission86]

Am I the only one that thought of battle bots when they didn't RTFA?

Hmm...lightweight and doesn't use much energy

[antifoidulus]

and moves a ton of dirt? Can I enter my dog? It's pretty damn autonomous.

Re:Hmm...lightweight and doesn't use much energy

[Bloke down the pub]

Can I enter my dog?

Give her a biscuit and tickle her a bit. You never know, your luck might be in...

Re:Hmm...lightweight and doesn't use much energy

[suv4x4]

and moves a ton of dirt? Can I enter my dog? It's pretty damn autonomous.

Ok, great! Now repeat the same, but your dog's on Mars and should receive commands from Earth :)

Re:Hmm...lightweight and doesn't use much energy

[LordSnooty]

"In space, noone can hear your dog whistle scream"

Re:Hmm...lightweight and doesn't use much energy

[Anonymous Coward]

1 Roomba = $100
1 Snow shovel = $7
3 8" pieces of duct tape. = $0.10

Seeing the look on the NASA's engineer's faces when this thing pwns = priceless.

Battle of the rock hounds

[macraig]

May the best rock lobster win.

Winner?

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems that, while building your robot to carry alot of dirt seems the most obvious way to move the dirt, my bet is that the winner ends up trading off some of its capacity for speed. My guess is, considering the amount of effort people put into thesee things, everyone will be doing extensive tests to see, energy lost for each journey compared to enery lost by carrying alot at the same time, then of course by carrying half the weight you need to be 4x as fast, becuase of the fact you have to make the journey there and back to collect dirt to move it.

Re:Winner?

[Eric Smith]

Carry the dirt? Why carry it? Just fling it. Or is that not allowed by the official rules (which seem to have gone AWOL)?

Re:Winner?

[johnw]

then of course by carrying half the weight you need to be 4x as fast, becuase of the fact you have to make the journey there and back to collect dirt to move it. Huh?! If you're carrying half the weight then you need to do twice as many trips. (You need to do a round trip for each load regardless of size.) If you carry half as much you only need to be 2x as fast to move a given amount in a given time.

Re:Winner?

[markov_chain]

Could use the robot to extend a conveyor belt, to avoid idling the pipeline. Depends on the distance I guess.

Re:Winner?

[SEWilco]

Snowblower.

Re:Winner?

[Zantetsuken]

Because the word "lunar" in the "lunar regolith" implies that its on the moon - you know, 1/3 gravity. I would expect it would only fling dirt into space. My guess is that they want to do something with this dirt, like pile it up - hence they would want to keep it on the ground.

Re:Winner?

[Eric Smith]

You expect wrong. Lunar escape velocity is 2.4 km/s. It's not possible to accelerate very much mass to that velocity with 15 kWh of energy. Flinging the regolith with consistent velocity will result in a nice pile of it accumulating somewhere. Just point the machine in the right direction.

Shame

[Timesprout]

My robot was designed to round up 130+ slaves to work in the sugar mines of our newly welcomed overlords. I dont think it works too well with regolith.

Re:Shame

[Anonymous Coward]

My robot was designed to round up 130+ slaves to work in the sugar mines of our newly welcomed overlords.

Ah. so you must be a neo-con.

Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[Eric Smith]

330 pounds (weight) is much different than 150 kilograms (mass). There is no purely numeric conversion factor between the two, as anyone with even the slightest knowledge of physics knows. The imperial unit of mass is the slug, and is approximately 14.59 kilograms.

30 kilowatts is one heck of a LOT of power to be used by something that is only supposed to mass 40 kilograms. I was unable to find the official rules, because the link on the NASA site was broken, but the challenge page gives the power limit as 30 watts, not 30 kilowatts.

Can we switch to SI now, please, and try to keep the prefixes straight?

Some info missing - how far must rock be moved?

[glawrie]

Does anyone have a link to the terms of the competition. The posting and the article it came from both omit to say how far the rock has to be moved. I'd have thought that would have a big impact on the total energy requirement. I would also hope that the spec would have a total energy consumption target (in KWh) - rewarding the more energy efficient robots.

Re:Some info missing - how far must rock be moved?

[SirBruce]

Click on registration and you will find several links, including one to the rule book which contains the information you seek. Specifically, there's a "sandbox" 4m x 4m x 0.5m of regolith, which the robot most sit on top of place into the "collector" area which is adjacent to the sandbox. How far you have to go depends upon how much regolith your robot can "reach" and collect in the time allotted; at most you might have to travel 5m to get to the regolith you need. It's really not so much distance moved as it is speed of collection and total quantity collected.

Re:Some info missing - how far must rock be moved?

[ohmypolarbear]

I would also hope that the spec would have a total energy consumption target (in KWh)

Giving just a wattage would make sense if they want to make sure that the robot doesn't use energy faster than it can be provided by, for example, a solar array of a certain size.

Re:Some info missing - how far must rock be moved?

[SirBruce]

The power is supplied by an external connector. From the rules:

The Power Source will supply 6 Amperes of current at 5 Volts to the excavation hardware during the 30 minute excavation attempt. A measurement device will be used to detect a draw of more than the allotted 30W of power from the Power Source. The power use will be recorded through the entire competition attempt, allowing the judges to detect an average power use of greater than 30W.

Re:Some info missing - how far must rock be moved?

[Zantetsuken]

Which this "external connector" would likely be connected to a solar plant. You can only launch such a big solar panel on one rocket, and even if they intend on having a large scale farm of solar panels, they would likely only launch a small plant at first, which is the most these 'bots can count on until further notice...

My reasoning for this lowest common denominator of power source is that Congress hates NASA enough as is. They don't have the patience to wait for NASA to get a large scale power plant on the moon, they want work getting done 5 years ago with funding yet to come 5 years in the future...

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[halftrack]

Wikipedia seems to disagree with you. See: article about the Pound and Avoirdupois article. It seems to have been defined as weight initially but 1 pound is now defined as exactly 453.59237 grams ... which is mass. So TFA is infact correct stating that 330 punds = 150 kg (with an error less than 0.3%).

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[Timesprout]

My brain is made heavy by the mass of your post.

weight != mass

[tolomea]

weight is the combination of mass and local gravity. an earth such distinctions don't much as local gravity is pretty much the same everywhere, but local gravity on the moon is very very different. however for the purpose of the contest it's probably safe to assume they meant weighs 150kg on earth

Re:weight != mass

[johnw]

for the purpose of the contest it's probably safe to assume they meant weighs 150kg on earth No - they meant what they said. The kg is a unit of mass and the mass is the same wherever it is.

Re:weight != mass

[Kagura]

Obviously a counter-balancing scale will work on the moon, but how about an electronic scale?

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[Anonymous Coward]

the 330 lbs to 150 kg gives you your answer. The contest, as we're all no doubt surprised to learn, is being held on the surface of the Earth. Is there a -1 pedantic moderation option?

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a question for you. By going with what Wikipedia states, how much does one pound weigh on the moon? Keep the units US Customary/Imperial.

And 1 pound is incorrect, btw. Don't try that copout.

Little Dig

[transami]

How about a mole in a spacesuit? :)

But seriously, it seems odd that would would want a digging robot. Wouldn't one of those ditch-digger devices suffice? They are more like drills.

Spathiwa called, they want their idea back.

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe the Spathi have some experience in autonomous moon dirt bulldozing... ;)

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[Watson Ladd]

No, it's the force exerted by 453.59237 grams on the surface of the earth. After all, PSI is a pressure unit.

Rules

[Anonymous Coward]

It's 30 Watts, not 30 kilowatts. That is max. power consumption and it will be monitored.
5 Volts DC at 6 Amps, applied for 30 minutes, that comes to 15 Watt-Hours so you are moving 150kg or more using less than 0.1WH/kg.

http://www.californiaspaceauthority.org/regolith/i mages/Regolith-Rule-Book-1_01.pdf

More reasons to believe they faked

[warthor]

the moon landings. They can't even build their own robot. NASA, what a hoax!!

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[The_mad_linguist]

Well, 30 watts *is* less than 30 kilowatts. The TFS is (technically) correct.

Isn't this an engineering challenge?

[at10u8]

I'm not sure where the scientific part is.

Re:Isn't this an engineering challenge?

[th1nk]

Engineering doesn't fall into the realm of science anymore?

Re:Isn't this an engineering challenge?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was thinking it looked more like a college engineering-level project rather than a real development effort. I think it's a great idea to both support education and get some fresh minds thinking out-of-the-box on your long-term projects, but the purse is pretty big for that kind of competition.

So this is what they needed the fake moon dust for

[The_mad_linguist]

From this article,
http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/2 9/1450233

Interesting...

Engineering challenge, not scientific challenge

[Anonymous Coward]

Engineering is applied science, while science is categorization and understanding of the natural world.

That said, given the confines of the challenge 'lunar regolith excavators must weigh less than 88 pounds (40 kilograms) and run on less than 30 kilowatts of power' - it seems to me that the best entry would be an underfed child of the English proletariat. It worked in the coal mines, I say, so it can jolly well work on the moon!

Re:Engineering challenge, not scientific challenge

[BiggerIsBetter]

it seems to me that the best entry would be an underfed child of the English proletariat. It worked in the coal mines, I say, so it can jolly well work on the moon!

That's so un-PC it just might work!

Go buy a trencher and add an expert system

[foniksonik]

Those things (trenchers) are fairly lightweight in the consumer version... have to be able to be pushed by lowest common denominator of people... move a lot of dirt quickly and could easily be adapted to a mulching lawnmower type design where the dirt is shoveled into an enclosed container rather than simply spewed out the sides.

IMHO we already have equipment designs that meet this spec, minus the autonomous part. Add in an expert system and an ECU and you're done (yeah I know that's the hard part). What I'm trying to say is that TFA makes it sound like a build a better mousetrap contest when really it should be more of a vendor sourcing expedition to find a company that already makes the equipment and is willing to work closely with NASA to modify their existing tool in return for major publicity in lieu of cash.

Use explosives?

[foniksonik]

A small unit that places directional charges to explosively blast out portions of regolith and then gather the resulting dust/rock might be the way to go. maybe put in place a shield of some sort to further contain/direct the displacement?

would certainly cut down on the power requirements and weight of the unit itself and explosives are not very heavy but contain enormous power output.

30KW?!?!

[Yubastard]

30 kilowatts? u crazy??? learn to read, man, it's 30 watts... an 88 pound, 30 kilowatt digging machine is simply outrageous! what, is it nuclear powered?? does it fly? LOL 30 watts, not 30 KiloWatts

Go slow and multiply

[nietsch]

remember they only have 30 watts to spend, so anything that involves a lot of accerlerating and braking is out of the question. Solution: use a conveyor belt (at least one of the entrants will). Just take tiny bites and transport it slowly to the dumpsite, but use a lot of buckets in the chain, so that the total transported load is high enough. 150 Kilo in 30 minutes means 5 kilo per minute => 10 loads of 500 gram per minute.
In fact, on another scale this is what is being done in stripmines, so you can copy part of their solution: excavators that transport the dirt with conveyors. Given the size of the sandbox with no obstacles, programming it should not be too hard.

Re:Go slow and multiply

[Anonymous Coward]

The only solution is "the robot is i, an human".

I can collect and carry 50+50+50+50+50+50+50+50+50+50 Kg = 500 Kg in 20 minutes, better than 30 minutes.

And power? what power? i don't plug to the electrical energy.

Re:Go slow and multiply

[nietsch]

How good for you that you are so strong, mr Anonymous Coward. That will be of good use when we deport you to the moon to mine regolith. BTW, I hope you can feed and breath off a 30 Watt solar panel?

Re:Go slow and multiply

[Anonymous Coward]

The "Bosch" drilling machine eats 1500 Watts to drill a small hole and doesn't extract minerals.

15 Watts is ridiculous to drill a hard stone and extract 150 Kg!!!
Else, the researcher machine would cost US$ 150,000,000!!!

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[camperdave]

The pound was redefined in 1959, when your entire measurement system was converted to metric bases. PSI should now read PFSI (pound force per square inch).

Nuke the site from orbit

[Anonymous Coward]

Why all the concern for energy efficiency? Just send a bomb-bay full of nuclear bunker-busters. That's excavation.

Kilowatts?

[jwiegley]

The poster is wrong! 30 Watts is the limit.

When I first read 30 kilowatts I said "300+ pounds with 3000 watts??? no problem!! You'd be talking 4000 horsepower. Your only real limitation on how much you could move would be the 40 kilogram limit.

But of course 30 Watts is much different. With a car battery based system with 13.8 volt you'd be limited to just a little over 2Amps. DC motors for the FIRST robotics competition draw far, far more than this. (300 - 500 watts peak power.)

Re:Kilowatts?

[Anonymous Coward]

When I first read 30 kilowatts I said "300+ pounds with 3000 watts??? no problem!! You'd be talking 4000 horsepower. Your only real limitation on how much you could move would be the 40 kilogram limit.

Um. 30 kilowatts = 30,000 watts, not 3000.

30kW is 40.2 horsepower, not 4000.

Re:Kilowatts?

[IHC Navistar]

Thank You!

Finally, someone who knows SOMETHING about mechanics.

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[darthdavid]

Just to let you all know: Pounds are Weight in standard Newtons are Weight in metric (technically force, but weight is just force towards the massive body you're on at the time) Kilograms are mass in metric Slugs are mass in standard Mass is How much shit there Weight is how much force is exerted on that shit by gravity. This is determined by the formula G*m1*m2 ------- r^2

Only 'move' it?

[flyingfsck]

Being an orbiting planet, the regolith is never stationary, however I'll just use some TNT...

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[Eric Smith]

Since it's a contest to design something intended to operate on the lunar surface, I don't think it's at all obvious how to interpret 330 lbs.

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll explain this slow. 150 kg is a unit of mass. The only time 2.2 lbs as a measure of weight == 1 kg is while being accelerated at 9.81 m/s^2. Since none of us are trying to figure out how many micrograms our dumbbells weight at our home in Machu Pechu this almost never comes up. Not to mention, did it really seem reasonable to you that they might hold the contest on the moon? Build a dirt movieg experiment, pay the registration fee, and we'll launch it to the moon to see if it works? Alternatively, don't you think that's a lot to ask of Jobs reality distortion field, changing G over the area and course of a large dirt removing contest?

Just in case...

[Maljin Jolt]

I for one, welcome our new regolith scraping excavator overlords!

How Many Watts?

[germansausage]

With 30 kilo Watts power I can move 150kg of moon rock in like 30 seconds, never mind 30 minutes. I suspect it should be 30 W not kW.

Re:Well, which is it? lb of kg? W or kW?

[MrYotsuya]

Well, 30 watts *is* less than 30 kilowatts. The TFS is (technically) correct.

Technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.

c4

[SnarfQuest]

Create a simple cart, use the rest of the mass for a load of C4, and I'll bet you could move a lot of material very quickly.

Regolith as shielding?

[Zantetsuken]

While I'm not a physicist, astro-physicist, astronomer, or have any real knowledge in the field (hey, if I'm wrong, at least I admit and accept it) - I remember reading somewhere that for low level radiation, things like certain types of clay can stop such low level radiation. Am I the only one thinking NASA wants to use the lunar dirt for at least partial shielding of a base?

Also, a base being slightly set below ground level, and even better covered by dirt, would decrease the tempurature (IIRC, this is one of the basic reasons for doing so with home-building in deserts here on Earth)...

Aside from the serious stuff, I think NASA just wants to be able to say "All your base are belong to us!" before anybody else gets a lunar base.