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Cisco Announces 802.11n Products After All

Kurtz'sKompund writes to mention that by announcing new 802.11n-compliant products Cisco has reversed their previous claims that the 802.11n standard was not ready for business use. "The Aironet 1250 access point can be used on its own, or as a thin access point connecting to Cisco's wireless switches - an approach that appears to duck the architectural issues which have split other Wi-Fi players. The AP, due next month, is capable of a theoretical rate of 300 Mbit/s (actual throughput probably around 100 Mbit/s) compared with todays 802.11g access points, and will cost $1299."

49 comments

  1. Obviously... by shawnmchorse · · Score: 1

    It's only "ready for business use" if Cisco is doing it.

    1. Re:Obviously... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's only "ready for business use" if Cisco can make more money by developing it and selling it than by not.

    2. Re:Obviously... by hauntingthunder · · Score: 1

      testify - now will they do wireless cards that fit those useless expresscard slots on modern laptops

      --
      You will never get to heaven with an Ak 47... But A Zu 30 is good for Low Flying Cherubim
  2. Can someone please explain the logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Of a, b, g, y, n? If they started with o at least they could have a joke in there.

    1. Re:Can someone please explain the logic by SCHecklerX · · Score: 1

      funny except that b was around before a, which pretty much succumbed to g.

    2. Re:Can someone please explain the logic by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Of a, b, g, y, n? If they started with o at least they could have a joke in there.


      Actually A and B came out together. A was for a 54Mbps enhanced rate PHY on 5GHz, while B was to improve the old 802.11 wireless standard to support 11Mbps.

      Alas, we have 802.11g because c through f were used for other 802.11 things. See Wikipedia.

      And apparently, they decided to reserve "o"...
    3. Re:Can someone please explain the logic by cibyr · · Score: 1

      Probably so people don't confuse 802.11o with 802.110.

      --
      It's not exactly rocket surgery.
  3. Pretty Hefty Price by unPlugged-2.0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Wow,

    That's a pretty hefty price for a small increase in speed and range. I am still skeptical as to how 802.11N will actually play out.

    The problem was that it took too long to come out and it has given a big foothold for other players such as WiMax etc to maybe get a hold of the market. The promise of 802.11n and other wireless networks is to eventually increase the range so that you can have coverage over a larger area for a mesh type network but I think that with the amount of time and cost issues involved that another technology would be better suited.

    As for home and small biz use 802G seems to be better but the speed is always nice. Not at that price though

    1. Re:Pretty Hefty Price by hax0r_this · · Score: 1

      I don't see too many people using Cisco enterprise network gear for their home network. You can always pick up a Linksys (which is part of Cisco) N router for closer to $100.

    2. Re:Pretty Hefty Price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      re hefty price Cisco is pricy - but using them with the switches that can control them is awsome you can see all your ap's all rogue ap's and rogue clients and if you take the time overlayed on a map of your building.

      You can also depoly ids ap's that can triangulate rogue's and locate them (you can also use thease IDS ap's to attack rogues.

    3. Re:Pretty Hefty Price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had a discussion with Cisco a couple months ago about this particular product.

      This product line will be firmware-upgradeable to the final 802.11N standard when it is released. This product line is also supposed to be the "mac daddy" of their access points, having every feature known to man. The large feature-set and the fact that it's aimed at early adopters in the -enterprise- of 802.11n tells you why it's such a high price. Course, the "Cisco" name bumps it up another couple hundred or so.

      I think I remember them saying there will be other Aironet products that support 802.11n as well, once it becomes standard.

      -M

  4. Holla! by TheLazySci-FiAuthor · · Score: 0

    802.11N'Da'House!

  5. bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As I'm very "web 2.0", I hereby tag as follows: slowasses, overpriced, cheeky

  6. It's the salesmans mantra... by y86 · · Score: 0

    Its only good if I'm selling it.

    "Now I for one welcome our new Cisco marketing overloads to rule all networking standards"

  7. More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by York+the+Mysterious · · Score: 4, Informative

    There's a lot new in the 1250. A lot more than 802.11n. First off because it's 802.11n you're getting MIMO which is going to benefit your existing B and G users. You're also getting a gig uplink port, which you're going to need now. You also get modular wifi cards. That last one is the important part. My university just deployed about 100 access points, and to replace them now we have to go swap the entire units. It would be a lot simpler and cheaper to just swap the radios. Beyond just saving money not having to replace the entire unit you save no having to pay someone to take the time to swap the entire unit our including the mounting hardware and then reconfigure the unit. If Cisco follows through and uses the 1250 as a real platform similar to the catalyst line, then customers have a lot to gain.

    --

    Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
    1. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by arth1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's a lot new in the 1250. A lot more than 802.11n. First off because it's 802.11n you're getting MIMO which is going to benefit your existing B and G users.

      But seriously upset your neighbor's users.
      The reason I'm so against n-draft access points is because of how they don't peacefully co-exist. They're specifically designed to reduce interference -- for the 802.11n devices themselves. We're three neighbours here living wall-to-wall, each with our own 802.11b/g networks, on channels 1, 6 and 11. If any one of us switch to n, the other two will suffer. The one with the weaker signal and most problems already will suffer the most, due to n's genius approach of avoiding other strong signals.

      Play nice. Just say n-no!
    2. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      Hmmmm...but how many companies really just upgrade the modules on existing Catalyst switch backplanes? Most of the companies I've worked for that use Catalyst switches usually just get a whole new backplane when it's time to ugprade? Why? Most of the time, the switches are leased and/or managed by an outside company. In many cases, it's easier for accounting purposes to just swap the whole unit out.

    3. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've clearly never worked for an ISP. The 6000/6500 platform is *awesome* for its upgradability. Get a clue before you spout.

    4. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by York+the+Mysterious · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there's many thousands of businesses out there that have upgraded their 4500/6500 series with new modules. Say you have a 6509 with a Supervisor 1A (insert any other supervisor here) and a bunch of 48 port 10/100 modules. You need a really high end switch now capable of a lot more in the way of packets per second routed between VLANs and you want 10/100/1000 and POE for capable clients. What are you to do? Throw away your 6509? All you're going to do is buy another 6509, but this time it'll have the modules you need. If you need gig you buy gig modules. If you need more routing capacity your go buy a Sup720 or whatever else you want.

      --

      Tim Smith - Ramblings from Nerd Land
    5. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by morgan_greywolf · · Score: 1

      I agree with you, but try explaining that to the bean counters at the places I've worked. They believe that somehow they are "saving money".

    6. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by fwr · · Score: 1

      802.11n is not designed for home use. While you can use them in the home, and companies do market them for that also, it is really designed for the business environment. Think hospitals with challenging RF environments. There are, or should be, no other AP's within range of any that the hospital deploys internally. With a high-rise building that multiple businesses have suites in you may have a problem, but then there's a problem NOW with b/g because most of these small businesses are idiots when it comes to wireless and everyone configures their equipment to be on channel 1. So, you're going to have a lot of cross-channel interference anyway.

      Complaining about 802.1n in a home environment is like complaining the 6000W power supplies for a 6509 chassis work best with dual 220V NEMA L6-20 plugs, and you generally don't find that in a home/apartment. It's not applicable. Yes, you CAN go out and purchase a Cisco 6509 with SUP720-3B's for your home network, but you shouldn't. Complain about the idiot end-users who think they need more than 11Mb wireless connections at home when their ISP can't even deliver that bandwidth on a consistent basis, if at all.

    7. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Complain about the idiot end-users who think they need more than 11Mb wireless connections at home when their ISP can't even deliver that bandwidth on a consistent basis, if at all.

      No, I think I will complain about idiots like you instead, who can't visualise a simple concept like a wireless LAN. There's plenty of people who find a use for streaming video over WiFi on their LAN, e.g. to a laptop, or otherwise moving large amounts of data (like backups) where they can not stretch cables, be it due to building codes or otherwise.
      Should my wife stop walking around the house watching TV on her laptop because you think 11 Mbps ought to be enough for everyone? Should I stop taking nightly backups of the laptops?

      As for your statement that 802.11n isn't for home use, but for hospitals reliant on their connection, that's plain ridiculous. First of all, WiFi is in the PUBLIC parts of the spectrum, where all devices MUST accept that there's interference, and not depend on not being jammed by other users. Then there's the whole HIPAA violation aspect -- one will have a hard time arguing that by using wireless systems on open public frequencies, with or without encryption, one is safeguarding the patients' data to the best of one's knowledge. A hospital that relies on 802.11n instead of shielded wired, and closed frequencies for where wireless data transfer absolutely has to be used, is one I hope I'd never visit.
    8. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by MojoStan · · Score: 1

      The reason I'm so against n-draft access points is because of how they don't peacefully co-exist. They're specifically designed to reduce interference -- for the 802.11n devices themselves. We're three neighbours here living wall-to-wall, each with our own 802.11b/g networks, on channels 1, 6 and 11. If any one of us switch to n, the other two will suffer. The one with the weaker signal and most problems already will suffer the most, due to n's genius approach of avoiding other strong signals. I'm not sure if this is related, but 802.11n Draft 2.0 certification (supposedly implemented by the Aironet 1250) requires a "good neighbor protocol" that's supposed to prevent interference problems. From the Wi-Fi Alliance's Draft 2.0 FAQ (PDF file):
      • I heard 802.11n can cause interference problems with other Wi-Fi networks. Is this true?
        In some configurations, 802.11n products can interfere with other Wi-Fi networks when they are trying to achieve the best performance. However, all products that are Wi-Fi CERTIFIED 802.11n draft 2.0 are required to implement a good neighbor protocol that helps ensure that interference is not a problem. Wi-Fi CERTIFIED 802.11n draft 2.0 products will operate in a manner designed to cause the least interference.
      Specifically, Draft 2.0 access points are supposed to switch from 40 MHz to 20 MHz when it detects an 802.11b/g neighbor. However, according to a SmallNetBuilder article, some early Draft 2.0 certified gear don't implement this protocol correctly.

      So if you want to take advantage of 802.11n speeds without being an a-hole neighbor, I think it's possible if you chose access points that implement the protocol correctly. Unfortunately, it appears we can't rely on the "Draft 2.0 certified" sticker. I guess we have to read reviews that specifically test this function.

      --
      TO START
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      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

    9. Re:More than just 802.11n with the 1250 by arth1 · · Score: 1

      While the "Good Neighbor" protocol would be better than nothing, it's still degrading the service for neighbors who run 802.11g. The difference being that instead of jamming their signal, they will leech half of the available bandwidth and make frame bursting impossible.

  8. So ... by MrHanky · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If it has a "theoretical rate of 300 Mbit/s ... compared with todays 802.11g access points", what theoretical rate does it have compared with yesterdays 802.11b access points?

  9. Re:fuck islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just FYI, Allah = Yahweh = Jehovah = God. They're all the same being.

  10. Re: Business Model by TaoPhoenix · · Score: 1

    1. Announce the spec is not ready ...
    2. Frighten away competitors
    3. Build Anyway
    4. Profit!

    --
    My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
  11. Wireless... BUISNESS USE? by DarkLegacy · · Score: 1

    "Cisco has reversed their previous claims that the 802.11n standard was not ready for business use."

    If you use a wireless network in a serious buisness environment, you deserve what's going to happen.

    --
    127.0.0.1
    1. Re:Wireless... BUISNESS USE? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 2, Interesting
      We use 802.11g in Enterprise. WPA2 only, enforced IPSEC. Radius, AD enforced client side certificates. AES. Smart cards.

      What's going to happen?

    2. Re:Wireless... BUISNESS USE? by nexex · · Score: 2, Funny

      Besides a client configuration nightmare?

      --
      Winter 2010: With Glowing Hearts
    3. Re:Wireless... BUISNESS USE? by teebob21 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it's the fscking Enterprise!!

      By the way, call me next time you pull up that Asian strippers program on the Holodeck. I hear it's _awesome_.

      --
      khasim (12/9/06): In a blind taste test, more people preferred Coke over the Pepsi that I had previously pissed in.
    4. Re:Wireless... BUISNESS USE? by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

      Interestingly, besides drivers and a functioning (and correctly configured AD), I can connect with a vanilla Vista install... (Eww, shiver, I know)

    5. Re:Wireless... BUISNESS USE? by Vancorps · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The beautiful part about the enterprise deployments is the ability to just plug in to the wired network. This will then automatically grab the policies and certificates needed to connect to the wifi network assuming the workstation/user combo are authorized. This is exceedingly easy to setup for small companies and can be done with only a single server and a managed switch. 802.1x authentication is transparent to the user if it is done right. Microsoft makes it mighty easy to do. FreeRADIUS and OpenLDAP on the Linux side are pretty simple as far as Linux alternatives go. They are both well documented.

      Of course me being the geek I am I have the same setup at my house in addition to four sites of the company I work for. If someone manages to compromise that level of security they can have free Internet, my hat is off to them.

  12. $1299.00 by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1

    $1299.00. Boy, I just can't wait to get one -- or a pair -- for my home.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    1. Re:$1299.00 by yabos · · Score: 1

      Did you miss the BUSINESS part or something?

    2. Re:$1299.00 by hauntingthunder · · Score: 1

      2 you cheap skate :-)

      you depoly them in triplets (on chanels 1 6 and 11) to get max coverage Cisoc also do some nice controller switches to manage a whole unch of AP's

      These arn't realy consumer bits of kit.

      --
      You will never get to heaven with an Ak 47... But A Zu 30 is good for Low Flying Cherubim
  13. It's a DRAFT standard ... by Bassman59 · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...which means it's NOT a standard at all.

    And draft standards have large-type caveats on their first pages: DO NOT DESIGN PRODUCTS TO THIS DRAFT STANDARD.

    The implication, of course, is that the final released standard most likely will deviate from draft standards in some manner. Some deviances might be fixable via a simple firmware update. Other deviances may require ASIC respins ($$$$) or PCB spins due to form-factor changes.

    Yet the various network-products manufacturers got themselves into a bind: in order to make their products seem faster than the next guy, someone jumped the gun and released a product based on a draft standard. Of course, since that industry is made up of sheep, the others followed in short order, releasing products also based on a draft. And guess what? The stuff from Vendor A doesn't play well, if at all, with the stuff from Vendor B.

    There's a reason why various vendors' so-called 802.11N products have serious interoperability issues: there's no standard yet!

    This particular standard is quite complex (see the article in EDN magazine) and it seems like every vendor implements different features in their own way. Of course each vendor wants their particular features to be part of the standard, and that's one reason why the standard has been delayed. The industry can't stand the delay; after all, 802.11g products are dead since 802.11n became "imminent," and if they can't sell anything, they have problems. So they sell products that are not ready for prime time, promising firmware upgrades if/when the standard is actually ratified. It'll be interesting to see how that all shakes out.

    In that same issue of EDN, an editorial makes clear that basically consumers should just wait for the standard. Gimme gigabit Ethernet on a wire any day.

    1. Re:It's a DRAFT standard ... by Wesley+Felter · · Score: 1

      in order to make their products seem faster than the next guy, someone jumped the gun and released a product based on a draft standard. Of course, since that industry is made up of sheep, the others followed in short order

      Companies are hardly sheep for trying to seize a first-mover advantage.

      Also, the Wi-Fi alliance is testing and certifying interoperability of 802.11n Draft 2.0 equipment, so in some sense it is a standard, just not an IEEE one.

    2. Re:It's a DRAFT standard ... by PCM2 · · Score: 1

      There's a reason why various vendors' so-called 802.11N products have serious interoperability issues: there's no standard yet!

      But they're all firmware upgradeable so surely these "serious issues" aren't that big of a deal?

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    3. Re:It's a DRAFT standard ... by MojoStan · · Score: 1

      Companies are hardly sheep for trying to seize a first-mover advantage. However, I do think some of them are a-holes for selling gear (before Draft 2.0) that interferes with legacy 802.11b/g gear and will not be compatible with other manufacturers' 802.11n gear.

      Also, the Wi-Fi alliance is testing and certifying interoperability of 802.11n Draft 2.0 equipment, so in some sense it is a standard, just not an IEEE one. Also, Draft 2.0 gear is guaranteed to be fully compatible with the final 802.11n standard (with firmware updates). With Draft 2.0, the core technology is all but set in stone, but the ratification process is slooooowwww. Wi-Fi certification finally started last month (August), so I think it's now "safe" to buy 802.11n Draft 2.0 gear.
      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

  14. Certified Draft N by eggboard · · Score: 4, Informative

    The comment on this linked article isn't on the mark. Cisco is specifically releasing a device that's got firmware based on Draft 2.0 from Task Group N, which has been certified as an interim release by the Wi-Fi Alliance. What all that means is that Cisco and other firms had to go through lab-based (not just plugfest-based) interoperability and conformance testing to get the Draft N Wi-Fi label. That's the baseline for the next year to 18 months for what 802.11n will look like. That's a far cry from Cisco just denigrating 802.11n's current state; they certainly didn't think it was ready several months ago (and it wasn't).

    --
    Freelance tech journalist for the Economist, MIT Technology Review, Macworld, and others
    1. Re:Certified Draft N by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      right on the mark, too bad nobody else (including the editors) read the f'in article

    2. Re:Certified Draft N by MojoStan · · Score: 1

      Cisco is specifically releasing a device that's got firmware based on Draft 2.0 from Task Group N, which has been certified as an interim release by the Wi-Fi Alliance. What all that means is that Cisco and other firms had to go through lab-based (not just plugfest-based) interoperability and conformance testing to get the Draft N Wi-Fi label. That's the baseline for the next year to 18 months for what 802.11n will look like. It also means that this device (like all Draft 2.0 gear) is guaranteed to work with the final 802.11n specification. The Wi-Fi Alliance finally started releasing Draft 2.0 "certificates" late last month, so now is the logical time for Cisco to release 802.11n gear. Cisco just waited until they could guarantee compatibility with the final standard. What's wrong with that?

      Ars Technica had an August 22 news story on the first wave of Draft 2.0 certified gear: 802.11n gets a boost with flood of Draft 2.0-certified gear .

      That article also linked to a list of early Draft 2.0 certified gear. Yup, Cisco's Aironet 1250 is there.
      http://certifications.wi-fi.org/wbcs_certified_pro ducts.php?search=1&advanced=1&lang=en&filter_compa ny_id=&filter_category_id=&filter_subcategory=&fil ter_cid=&date_from=&date_to=&selected_certificatio ns%5B%5D=33&x=32&y=5

      --
      TO START
      PRESS ANY KEY

      Where's the 'ANY' key? I see Esk, Kitarl, and Pig-Up...

  15. Does 802.11n have full-speed ad-hoc mode? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the most disappointing things about g was how ad-hoc mode was limited to b speeds. This made simple mesh networking less high-performance, though many devices had an "unofficial" 54M ad-hoc mode it was never standardised between vendors. I just haven't read the 802.11n standard - can anyone tell me if you can do ad-hoc at "full" 802.11n speed? (iirc cisco in particular worked hard to exclude full-speed ad-hoc from 802.11g so that people couldn't build relatively high-performance meshes with cheap hardware, reducing the need for wired infrastructure - if it's a thing that 802.11n DOES have full-speed ad-hoc, I could understand cisco's enthusiasm for it being lukewarm...).

  16. 802.11n is an awful lot of products... by CiderJack · · Score: 1

    ...or very few. I guess it depends on the value of n.

    1. Re:802.11n is an awful lot of products... by MisterQ · · Score: 1

      regarding Cisco's "first" 802.11N product. Doesn't Cisco own Linksys?

      I have a Linksys 802.11N WRT300N Router. Isn't that -N? Mind you, there hasn't been a firmware release for draft 2.0 yet... (and I have asked Linksys support...)

  17. Steve Says 802.11g Is the Be-All to End_all by BSDetector · · Score: 0

    Who needs 802.11n? Steve says that 802.11g is the cat's pajamas!!! Cisco is just so wrong!!!!