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Verizon Sues FCC over 700MHz Open Access Rules
Carterfone writes "Verizon is upset at the open access conditions for the 700MHz spectrum auction, and they're going to court to get them overturned. The company has filed a lawsuit in the Court of Appeals for the DC Circuit, urging the court to overturn the rules. 'In its petition for review, Verizon argues that the FCC exceeded its authority in mandating the two open access conditions, accusing the Commission of being "arbitrary" and "capricious," and saying that the rules are "unsupported by substantial evidence and otherwise contrary to law." Google is critical of Verizon's lawsuit: 'It's regrettable that Verizon has decided to use the court system to try to prevent consumers from having any choice of innovative services. Once again, it is American consumers who lose from these tactics.'"
> Under the FCC's rules, whoever wins the spectrum auction must allow consumers to use any device and any lawful application on their networks.
No wonder they're pissed.
Verizon: We never stop working... for ourselves.
If there were any justice at all in the Universe, any statement by Verizon declaring it's support with consumers, or battling for them, would lead to the entire board of directors' heads exploding simultaneously while a hundred rabid ducks danced about singing "I'm Popeye the Sailor Man".
But there's no justice in the universe. Just judges.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Well how much would it cost to get a page in Wall Street Journal, or NY Times and tell people to beware of Verizon, boycott them and explain why?
We really don't need them throwing a hissy fit in a time like this.
I for one do not want them to restrict the market any more than they already have.
Verizon has always been about lock in and keeping away choice. That is why they never wanted to go with a sim card based cellphone system. it eliminates your ability to buy a unlocked phone and activating it without them getting their "fees" in their sideways.
Verizon wants you to do it their way, and really wants to force it upon you. when they bought GTE they tried to treat landline customers the way they treated cellular customers, they got nailed hard in court over that one.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Can you hear me now? No? Good.
Can you hear me now? No? Good.
load "$",8,1
'It's regrettable that Verizon has decided to use the court system to try to prevent consumers from having any choice of innovative services. Once again, it is American consumers who lose from these tactics.'"
That's pretty funny, coming from a company which prohibited its Adword customers from discussing anything about the Adwords program with others.
Google late paying you one month? Don't post anything about it on your website, or boom, you weren't a customer anymore. I took a quick glace through the terms and couldn't find it; maybe they finally nix'd it.
PS: We're not CONSUMERS. We are PEOPLE, who MAY be CUSTOMERS.
Please help metamoderate.
I really hope that Google, the EFF, etc. file amicus briefs on this one.
Hey Verizon? Too bad. You don't own anything. The airwaves are OURS, no matter what our corrupt FCC/DOJ want to lead you to believe.
"Once again, it is American consumers who lose from these tactics."
I'll bet a couple of people around here were wondering how they misspelled "loose".
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
I was hesitating to sign up with Verizon as my wireless carrier a year ago. I still have 1 year left on my contract and I don't want to feed money into a company that acts like this. Now I'm stuck giving Verizon my money for another year, how do I get out of this bull shit without doing the costly termination crap!?!
First you have 5gb limit you unlimited data plan.
You also lock down your phones to fore people to use the data planes so they pay to get photos off of the phone.
You hire people who don't know that $0.002 and 0.002 cents are not the same number.
You also put your poor UI on most of your phones.
What do you want to do next to rip us off?
This maybe way you did not get the iPhone.
This shows you how scared the carriers are about these rules and Google getting hold of the bands.
Verizon's move vacates its primary contention. The open access rules are going to make the bidding intense because those who want to keep the other two open access rules off the table are going to being bidding heavily. Moreover, it is quite likely that Verizon and others will, if the two existing open access rules stick, attempt to buy up the bands and then simply not build or activate the infrastructure, thereby trapping consumers into the other bands where they are not subject to these rules.
Point being, this is sleight of hand. Their real move is going to be trying to buy the bands and keep them dark. Therefore, the bands are worth more with these rules in place than without and Verizon's contention that the FCC is disenfranchising the government of revenue by adding these rules is void.
Couldnt play in a playground that is open eh ? Afraid of competition ? Eh ?
Read radical news here
On a side, and hopefully not-downmod note, I'd love to see Jared from Subway and the Verizon guy in a death-cage match.
All should be able to tell that I'm a less-than-satisfied Verizon customer.
We figured out a long time ago that it's easier to elect seven judges than to elect 132 legislators.
Total B.S.! If I can use any device, then I can use the most innovative devices from anyone building them. If Version provides the most new and innovative wireless services at a fair price, they get my business. If someone else does, my business goes there. In short, Version contradicts themselves in the very same sentence.
As for reducing the revenue the government will receive from the spectrum auction, like how does that happen? Is Verizon going to pay a bazillion dollars for the spectrum if you have to buy only their devices and services afterwards, and that no one will buy a single Hz of it otherwise? I doubt that!
It's all such total B.S. from Verizon that nobody should be taking them seriously for a single instant -- and throw those blighters out of court!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
If you don't like the rules, then don't participate in the auction. You won't be missed. In fact, given that you already have the phone service side of the duopoly, I'd prefer that you not be part of this anyway! Pick up the toys you tossed out of the pram, and just go home.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
If any of you ever felt like you might want to write some letters or make some phone calls, this would be a good time. Keep in mind that Verizon won't be hurt in any way if they don't get this frequency band. It's you and I that'll get hurt if they do...
I find that completely rediculous. Its rediculous in thought, that Slashdotter's would ever be caught making simple spelling mistakes, and rediculous in action, that you would post it here.
Rediculous, rediculous, rediculous.
Details please. I love a good smackdown!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
Ask the CLECs about Verizon's willingness to abuse the courts to get what they want. 10 years after passage of the 1996 Telecomm Act, the unbundling rules were finally finalized. But only because Verizon finally stopped suing. And they only stopped because they couldn't gut the 1996 Act, or gut broadband competition, any further.
I hope Google is willing to go to court because this simply will not end. Verizon will sue infinitely to delay the auction if they don't get what they want, and if the auction happens they will sue infinitely to block usage of the spectrum or to block open access. They've proven that nothing is enough for them.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
all I know if that if it's something one of the baby bells wants (which Verizon is one, despite its name), I don't like it.
Not one bit!
expandfairuse.org
I'm told that terminating your account with Verizon isn't as hard as they would like it to seem. What you do is to say that you are moving to an area where there is no coverage or bad coverage. If you actually use their service, you know where some of these places are.
They will send a guy out there to go "You can't hear me now?" and when he gets no answer they'll release you from your contract. This is only something I've heard of but if you have tried this, please post your experience.
http://www.checkyourphonebill.com/index.html
http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/006/ripoff0006518.htm
http://www.phoneplusmag.com/articles/0c1rnew4.html?cntwelcome=1
tons more. Verizon has tried their hardest to screw the customer for a really long time.
The future is coming fast, and the sold spectrum is a problem.
Imagine the day you are carrying a little device in your pocket. This device is an all in one thing. It has a software defined radio in it, a reasonable sized display (3in diagonal maybe, 800x600 pixels?), some kind of keyboard, a microphone and a speaker. You can make phone calls, instant message, and almost any other form of communication. The infrastucture is WiFi, WiMax, CDMA, GSM, 3/4G, point to point, HDTV, AM, FM, XM, Sirius, GPS, pager, bluetooth and zigbee on whatever frequency is appropriate (remember software defined radio, it can do all of this in software).
You pick up the device, it has an address. You wish to communicate with someone else, they have an address. The device knows them, and their address. Through the infrastructure, Your device can find their device, picking the most suitable communication mechanism available. If they are in the same room, it'll do point to point, if they are in the same building, it'll do WiFi. Across town, maybe your device will do CDMA, and theirs will do GSM. Want to send email to someone, it'll figure out a route.
The only way this will work, is opening up everything. The spectrum, especially will have to be unencumbered (not owned). The carriers will have to act like carriers, accepting these all purpose devices, without a monopoly.
Sure verizon and ATT will scream, it isn't good for anyone. But actually it will work in their and our best interest. Their infrastructure could be more efficiently used (won't have to handle calls to the guy in the next cube). Sure we may have to pay what it costs to utilize their network instead of a flat fee, with silly gimicks. Initial purchase price will a little high (device not bundled with the service). They won't have to service the devices, or they could, if they build their own.
To get here, the spectrum that has already been sold will have to be returned to the rightful owners (us), and that will be expensive!!! The government could claim eminant domain, but that would probably be even less popular, and the lawsuits would probably cost even more money. We need to stop selling spectrum NOW!
Verizon is just inviting a decision like the Carterfone decision of 1968. It would be ironic if such a decision were made, and applied to the entire spectrum. Sometimes I wonder if we would have been better off without the breakup of the old AT&T. At least the old AT&T had some glimmer of a conscience, Verizon and the new AT&T show no signs of one whatsoever.
"To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
Just to be pedantic, $0.002 is actually 0.2 cents, if I'm not mistaken. I'm sure you meant to say something slightly different.
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
Can anybody say boycott?!
No, that's what he meant to say. There's a fairly widely publicized case of a man having quite a bit of trouble getting Verizon reps to understand and admit the difference between .002 cents and .002 dollars.
Look at http://verizonmath.blogspot.com/
I personally appreciate the rules, and most netizens seem to love the idea of open standards, open devices, etcetera, but the fact of the matter is that it isn't the government's place to make rules like this. It's odd enough that they need to control the airwaves, but since we gave up our freedom in exchange for less anarchy in the system, I suppose they get to make up the rules. It'll be interesting to see how the court rules on this.
Uncle Phil, is that you?
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
check out* http://verizonmath.com/
*I have no affiliation with this site, I simply did a search to find the "Verizon Can't Do Math" YouTube video, but it appears to have been removed and this site came up first in my results.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Who on earth thought it was a good idea to buttonhole the entire US population as 'Consumers' ?
How about Citizens?
I mean, even Taxpayers is a better monikor than Consumer.
This memeshift is obviously intentional, and I wish 'they' would knock it off.
Once again we see the wisdom of market rule. In most other countries, mind you, cell customers don't even get charged for incoming calls!!!
A modest proposal:
What if there was an "X-prize" in the mould of the private competition to spur on space travel, to push an open source CITIZENS-BAND SATELLITE into earth orbit? Now my guess is that with lobbyists and all, such a thing could never get off the launchpad in this country. So maybe Larry Ellison or Google (or some other ambitious visionary bunch) in collaboration with a small third or fourth world nation seeking to establish its space presence (not knowing anything about the international regulations that may possibly have sway on such things) could sponsor such a competition. The goal of this would be to place a communications satellite in earth orbit that would begin to provide free access to anyone and everyone. Just what piece of the airwaves you could dedicate to this I don't know. Its a half-baked modest proposal at best. But how about some real competition for the telecom giants? Whatever happened to the Irridium project?
Somehow complaining about Verizon's tactics seems out of place considering that the US way of doing things has always been to let market solve it's own problems. Is somebody finally realizing that the european way of regulating market isn't all that bad all the time?
"In most other countries, mind you, cell customers don't even get charged for incoming calls!!!"
Quite true -- in most other countries land-line customers get charged to call cell customers.
I personally appreciate the rules, and most netizens seem to love the idea of open standards, open devices, etcetera, but the fact of the matter is that it isn't the government's place to make rules like this.
You're quite wrong. If the government (ie the people) doesn't make those rules, the corporations sure wont. So where will these regulations come from? What will keep those telephone companies from only allowing us to use one phone, rented from them (as they use to do in the old days?) What will keep those food companies from feeding us poison?
You're wrong in thinking it's not the governments place to regulate safety and fairness. History has shown time and time again that money making enterprises cannot be trusted to regulate themselves in any way. Teddy Roosevelt knew this, but libertarians now a days just turn a blind eye to to that particular statesman.
God is real unless declared integer.
What amuses me is that after all above, there are thousands of fools in Verizon stores THIS moment, signing up "I hereby give Verizon all the rights to fuck me from various direction using all the various holes in my body while being tied to painful things with painful things, gagged with various organic and inorganic materials. I accept, that in return, Verizon will let me make some phone calls for which I will have to pay out of my sore ass."
But then, I should not be surprised by this. After all, its just genetics at work - coming from AT&T.
I am just thankful to T-mobile for just existing in this country. In case they go down, I will just stop using mobile phones.
I don't like Verizon very much, but calling my fiancee's T-Mobile phone is a lesson in annoyance. Her phone constantly drops calls, routinely doesn't get any signal where my phone has it, and often (maybe 15%-20% of the time) won't even connect when it does have a signal. It's not the hardware, either, since it's been like that with every phone she's tried (and her friends have T-Mobile as well with the same issues.) Other times it's just "network too busy" errors when trying to call.
Until I see consistent coverage and a network that lets me actually make calls when I should be able to, I'll stick with Verizon, because I can at least make the calls I need to make, even if I'm getting raped to do so.
"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional."
I looked at Verison's phones. Some could play MP3s, which I thought was cool. But then I learned that you couldn't just rip your own MP3s and then use those as a ringtone....you had to pay a yearly fee for a ringtone, and your options were limited to those that Verizon (or their partners) provided.
That made me angry because there is no technological reason why I shouldn't be able to play whatever ringtone I want on an MP3-capable phone. It's just choice-deprivation and fee-gluttony.
My unlocked phone (which Verizon wouldn't accept) works great on T-Mobile's network.
Vendors that give me the freedom I want, get the money they want.
If Verizon keeps doing stuff like this, they won't have any customers. Then the American people win...except for those who were employeed by Verizon.
~Vexed and loving it!
what if like globalist corps people just set up a satellite network outside the states that caters to open standards....somebody else just mentioned it...I was thinking if they can run sweatshops in China and run wages down everywhere else why not set up businesses that gut existing business models that are closed in an effort to circumvent the ability of these companies to circumvent and restrict technologies? In the same way someone brings in goods from China or imports workers from Mexico or elsewhere, why not disrupt the technology infrastructure by setting up in unregulated lands?