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Congress May Kill NIH Open Access Research Rules

Savuka writes "A policy that mandates public, open access to all National Institutes of Health research is in danger. The House of Representatives is considering legislation that would change the open access policy to make it more publisher-friendly, under the false pretense of protecting copyrights. The Ars author paints the new legislation as somewhat reflective of a turf battle in Congress: 'The Intellectual Property Subcommittee clearly felt that it had been ignored during the original passage of the bill that compelled the NIH's open access policy...' The article concludes: 'Currently, the disruptions wrought by the Internet and expectations of open access are too new for a viable alternative to traditional publishing to have emerged. But it doesn't appear that the NIH policy is making a significant contribution to that disruption, and the benefits of the policy appear likely to be significant. If Congress rolls back that policy in response to disagreements with other countries over film piracy, then it could really be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.'"

105 comments

  1. Open Access (to research) backstory by Chris_Keene · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At the moment Publishers get a good deal. They charge huge amounts so that Universities (or anyone else) can have access to their journals. why do Universities (and others) pay these huge amounts? Because they need the journals. Why because of the CONTENT, i.e. the academic research papers. Who pays for researchers and academics to carry out the research to write up those papers? Universities, funding councils, tax payers. So how much do Universities get from publishers for this valuable content. NOTHING!

    We (universities, the tax paying public) are paying huge amount to publishers to access content which we (universities, tax payers) have given them for free.

    The big costs are 'doing the research' and writing it up in an article, this takes time, expertise and money, most of which is from a University's own budget or a funding agency such as NIH, NSF (or say the Research Councils here in the UK).

    The key part of academic publishing is peer-review. This is done again with no cost to the publisher, by other academics (who are being paid by Universities). There will also be a Editor (and perhaps a board of Editors), they are unpaid (with a few exceptions).

    What does the publisher do, well they help facilitate this (with web based software, all quite simple and there are open source solutions to do this), and they provide clerical services such as proof reading and putting the article in to a page template (actually a few make the academic do this as well). They then put it on their website.

    They charge HUGE amounts for this, we are talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars/UKpounds, many hundreds of thousands of dollars going to one publisher, per year, for one smallish university. That's only to have access to recent editions, want the older stuff... pay more. Want to cancel access to a journal, then pay a penalty (or pay more for the whole lot for the right to do so). Many academics do not even have access to their own articles. And because journal subscription inflation is about 7% a year (for about the last 10 years) the only option is to cancel more and more.

    Publishers do very little and charge huge amounts, every increasing, for access to content the 'customers' basically wrote, reviewed and edited (collectively) themselves.

    Now, there are open access journals. These are freely available on the web. They either keep their costs down (perhaps using resources of a given University). Or charge for people to submit articles. This may sound bad, but in reality researchers will have research grants and 'publishing fees' can be included in research bids. This pays for running of the Journal and the articles are free to all, including the Tax payers who probably paid for it, keen members of the public, and those from the third world who had no chance of paying the fees of the traditional publishers.

    Their are also open access REPOSITORIES. These are either subject based (pubmed, arXiv.org, etc) or institution based, ie based at a university. An academic publishes in to a traditional (high cost) journal, for the peer review and kudos, and then puts their article in to their institutional (or pubmed/arXiv.org) so that it is freely available to everyone. Even though publishers put huge restrictions on this, such as embargos and which copy can be used (normally the academics original copy, not the publisher's version) they unsurprisingly don't like this. Think about it, though the academic/university paid for and created the research, the publisher still tells them when they can upload their own version of the article (i.e. not before a year after publication).

    For this story see:
    http://sciencenow.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/2008/911/1

    For more information, google for "open access"

    Chris

    --
    You will forget this sig before you next see it
    1. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by Tucan · · Score: 5, Informative

      You've left out another important factor. Publishers often charge the researchers that are providing the content "page charges" to defray publication costs. Researchers are willing to pay this fee (often hundreds of dollars for a single article) because success in their field is judged in part by the reputation of the journals in which they have published.

    2. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by CrackedButter · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is one crazy system for making money. 1. Get other people to write content 2. Sell it back to them 3. Profit!

    3. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by philspear · · Score: 1

      Hey, whoa, you left out a major thing the publishers do: they print and publish the actual journal! For all 10 subscribers who wait months for the print version rather than just getting it online. Do they put ads in the physical copy to subsidize the printing costs? Yes, but still, someone has to make the table of contents.

      Another major cost of publishing: hiring lobbyists to keep it subscription based. They don't work for free, ya know.

    4. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      Writing as though you speak on behalf of higher education:

      "Their are also open access REPOSITORIES."

      Applause.

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
    5. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by a1056 · · Score: 1

      I've been in the academic research field for a number of years and published a good number of papers, and from the lowest tier you've never heard or it anyway journal to the most highly rated immunology journal and every one of them lists published articles as advertisments because we have to pay them to publish it. Not only that but then they charge money to real advertisers and stuff the book with that as well. And as a reviewer for some of these journals I can say only the top most tier of journals have an editoral staff that actually does anything. There is nothing like correcting grammar (I don't mean basic non-essential problems I mean it took an hour and a literature search to figure out what the hell the author was talking about things) when you are supposed to be evaluationg the science. The worst part many of the better journals have less restrictive policies. Some of the best journals, JI, JEM, etc have made all their articles free after one year without NIH prompting. Its a horrible scam, but the open access journals may never take off, too many scientists want to publish their stuff in the journals people read and these are established and ranked. It's all a horrible scam.

    6. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by Essellion · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Something else that is interesting is the composition of the Intellectual Property Subcommittee.

      Its composed of 24 members, 13 Democrat, 11 Republican.

      25% of the subcommittee is from California.

      http://judiciary.house.gov/about/subcourts.html

    7. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very true. Plus, as mentioned below the publishing fees in some fields. But this has been changing in some fields, so it's not a permanent situation.

                (Note: I'm not in this fields of research.) Apparently in math and some physics disciplines, they've nearly ditched the traditional journals. You can still have exactly the same thing as a journal, but online, and have it dead cheap, so they did. arxiv.org has quite a few fields covered, and there's online peer-reviewed journals as well (to add some prestige to the submitter for getting in, and for the reader a filter to prevent information overload, etc.)

                If this spread to other fields of research more widely, then you just wouldn't need a costly journal subscription, or open access rules, because it'd already be open access. There is a cost, you'd still either need to pay some (much lower) publishing fee, have some group subsidize it, or people have to peer review "on the house" if it's a free journal. But this has happened in some research topics.

                I'm guessing journals for some academic disciplines just plain entrenched, and will be shuffled around in paper form for years. But there you go.

    8. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That 3 part system often works for some software companies.

      And I agree, it's silly.

      Perhaps the NIH should discontinue funding of research, that way people would be free to charge lots of cash or the results...although that would be stupid too.

      What would happen if we tossed out all copyrights over 1 year old? Everything put into the public domain. Seems to me, we'd experience another golden age, where we'd have MANY more people publishing, constructing, etc.

      Of course, it might be harder for politicians to get cash from some companies, but it would be good for most people.

    9. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by wibald · · Score: 1

      And I will be donating to the campaigns of challengers of any committee member who votes for this bill. These issues are too important to leave to publishers' pet politicians.

    10. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by ggwood · · Score: 1

      Actually, many nonprofit professional societies publish the best journals, such as the American Physical Society (APS) which publishes the Physical Review series of journals. It costs them money to do this, they charge basically university libraries money to buy it back, and really make no profit off it.

      The other society I'm a member of, the biophysical society, actually just moved the printing of their journal (the Biophysical Journal) over to a for-profit company since it would be cheaper (according to the society).

      One option is for the government to go to the professional societies and just pay whatever it costs to run one broad open access, online only, journal per discipline.

      As has been pointed out, there is basically no overhead: editors are unpaid, reviewers are unpaid. Sure you have to post the papers online and you probably have to have some people hire and monitor the editors, etc, but in reality, I just can't see this as much of a big cost.

      Then any and all of us who wish can submit to the open access journals or the traditional ones.

      --
      a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
    11. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by ggwood · · Score: 1

      But some journals expressly forbid you posting your article there.

      --
      a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
    12. Re:Open Access (to research) backstory by fishbowl · · Score: 1

      *whoosh*

      "forbid you posting you're article their."

      --
      -fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
  2. Ummm by rrohbeck · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Why isn't all government (i.e. taxpayer) funded research public?
    Just wondering.

    1. Re:Ummm by jgarra23 · · Score: 1

      Because lawyers like laws, disputes (that's how they get paid), and money. Mr. Smith should become a politician and propse a law outlawing all BAR members from serving in Congress.

    2. Re:Ummm by Chris_Keene · · Score: 5, Informative

      I think because of history.

      When journals where paper based, they had an obvious cost.

      Academics would write up their research, lets say on a typewriter. They send it to a journal (owned by a publisher). The journal would need to copy this, send it out to be peer reviewed, collect corrections from the peer reviewers, send them to the academic, collection revised copy from academic, and then set the article (and diagrams/images) out to be sent to printers. It would then need to be sent to subscribers around the world by post.

      You can see the costs, and the work which the publisher undertook.

      Now? of course all online, and I'm sure all can imagine the web based systems that make nearly all of this automatic (apart from laying out the pages, though some expect academics to write straight in to their MS Word template). The valuable work is the researcher (who may have taken years), the peer reviewers (the stamp which shows this is good research) and the editor. All of whom do not get paid by the publisher.

      Meanwhile publishers have been increasing their costs by 10% or so a year, ever year, what once cost $1,000 is now$ 10,000, while adding in clauses and strings attached (you can only subscribe to journal A if you subscribe to our new but useless journal B).

      And perhaps part of the problem is that those who see the problem (such a librarians, who get the flack from academics when they have to cancel journals because the cost has gone up and their budget hasn't) aren't those who can really change it (academics - who give their research 'away' for free - and senior university administrators).

      Chris

      --
      You will forget this sig before you next see it
    3. Re:Ummm by conureman · · Score: 1

      I deal with this affliction regularly. I try to do a little amateur research, but not being a member of the academic guild, I am locked out of the access. nice if I could afford $40 a pop or so to read some 3-page article in a journal on JSTOR, but I can't. TANSTAAFL I guess.

      --
      The cost of that cleanup, of course, will be borne by taxpayers, not industry.
    4. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems to me that research should be public if we are the ones funding it.

      But what disturbs me most about this development is that the policy change is backed by, and written for, the publishing companies. If those who actually do the research, or those who pay for it (taxpayers) have legitimate concerns over copyrights, thats one thing. Instead, the publishers are essentially demanding the right to charge us money to access research that we have already paid for. Disgusting.

    5. Re:Ummm by pieisgood · · Score: 1

      Information is power.

      --
      Eat sleep die
    6. Re:Ummm by falconwolf · · Score: 0

      Why isn't all government (i.e. taxpayer) funded research public?

      Because of greed!

      Falcon

    7. Re:Ummm by TimFenn · · Score: 4, Informative

      It depends on what you wanted access to, at least historically. Before the public access to publication initiative, NIH only really required that the data be made publicly available - i.e. if after reading a publication I wanted to look at the data from that publication for my own use, the lab I requested it from had to provide it (given that they had published it at that point). This is elaborated in NIH NOT-OD-03-032 and the NIH grant policy statement. Of course this all requires that I have access to the publication that talks about the data in the first place, so it was a bit of a chicken and egg problem.

      So along came the initiative to make the publication itself open access (see the nih public access site for more info). Publishers are worried they'll lose cash, and thus the shitstorm you see in front of you.

      --
      CAPS LOCK IS THE CRUISE CONTROL OF AWESOMNESS
    8. Re:Ummm by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Why isn't all government (i.e. taxpayer) funded research public?

      Because we don't have public funding of elections.

      Since politicians have to raise money to run for office, they are always beholden to big corporations who can swing huge contributions by "suggesting" that their employees all give the limit.

      When it comes time to vote for things like public financing of anything (including research), every single politician has to fear upsetting the corporations and other wealthy patrons when they cast their vote.

      So, instead of politicians being afraid of the voters, like our Founding Fathers intended, they are afraid of their donors. Somehow, they got the (conservative) Supreme Court to rule that money=speech (!) and they made it a First Amendment issue (which it certainly is not).

      Then, if the threat of losing big donors doesn't do the trick (the stick), there is always the largesse of the more than 20,000 lobbyists to encourage the "correct" vote. If you figure that a senator (for example) has to run for election every six years, in 24 years they would have had to run for office 8 times, each time adding to their debt to big donors. The longer someone is in office, the more likely they are to be in the pocket of big money. So, it takes a very unusual politician to spend a life in public service and not end up dirty.

      This is part of the story of how we end up fucked.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:Ummm by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      That is because the congress critters go "I am for the people" and then Mr. lobbyist walk up to them and whispers in their ear "lookie....Big fat checkie poo!" And they go "HOW much money? Really?" and we get screwed yet again. It has gotten so disgusting we should have a little ticker tape running at the bottom of CSPAN " This law was bought for you by" and then the logos of whatever corps paid to have it railroaded through. This could be followed at the end of the day by our new national anthem "Mighty Mighty Dollar Bill".

      Hell,they don't even try to pretend to be anything but shills anymore,disgusting. I don't know which is more sad,the fact that they pull this kind of crap year after year,or the fact that come election time they play the same games over and over and folks still fall for it. Man I miss Bill Hicks and Sam Kinison. We could really use a couple of really smart and funny guys like that to point out the BS instead of the usual dog and pony we get from MSM at election time. But as always this is my 02c,YMMV

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    10. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would mean everytime something goes wrong, they're responsible

    11. Re:Ummm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there a lot of lawyers in Congress? I don't think so.

  3. Re:What party is in power in Congress right now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It certainly would be right up their alley, attempting to legislate profits for their corporations.

  4. Damn Bush and the neocons! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, wait...

  5. Sadness ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    The biggest publishers are foreign owned (example : Georg von Holtzbrinck runs Nature Publishing ). US Congress is an agent of Globalism and no longer even cares about US taxpayers.

  6. this is a key chance by rtfa-troll · · Score: 1
    This can be a key opportunity. Mostly people don't understand copyrights and patents much. What they do understand is tuned by the words "intellectual property" which treats these things as if they were solid things that you can only get if someone else loses theirs.

    When the IP people start to threaten other people's health, it's a great opportunity to show the harm they really do. When they attempted to kill people in Africa in order to over charge for AIDS drugs this really backfired. Try to make this change backfire too.

    --
    =~ s,(.*),<sarcasm>$1</sarcasm>,g if any_point_you_wish();
  7. TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As we see who the real enemies of intellectual freedom are.

    1. Re:TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by megamerican · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Tag it Republicans too. They are two sides of the same coin. It doesn't matter who is in control of what, nothing significant changes.

      Nothing big changed in the 90's when the Republicans were elected with their contract with america.

      Nothing changed when the Democrats came into power in 2006. they gave bush just about everything he wanted.

      The two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can 'throw the rascals out' at any election without leading to any profound or extensive shift in policy."

      Quote by Georgetown Professor, Carroll Quigley from his book "Tragedy and Hope." He was also a mentor of Bill Clinton.

      --
      If you have something that you dont want anyone to know, maybe you shouldnt be doing it in the first place -Eric Schmidt
    2. Re:TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by sam_handelman · · Score: 4, Informative

      Bullshit.

        The open access law that they are threatening to overturn wasn't enacted until December, 2007.

        It never would've had a shot at becoming law in the first place when the Republicans were in charge of Congress.

        Now, it's absolutely true that we (the voters) must be vigilant to make sure that the reforms we won in the 2006 election aren't eroded. We must also be vigilant that they aren't simply ignored (presumably in exchange for sex) by the executives we elect.

      --
      The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
    3. Re:TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by Brain-Fu · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Neither the democratic party nor the republican party actually represent the best interests of the majority of American citizens.

      Both party agendas ultimately represent the best interests of an elite, wealthy, few.

      They just use a lot of sophistry and marketing to convince the majority that they do, in fact, represent the best interests of the people, and that the political rivalry between the two parties is the most significant element of American progress.

      In fact, it is political rivalry against both parties that does us some good...but so long as most people remain hypnotized by one or the other of these two parties, it will do no good.

      But how do you get the sheeple to wake up and see how they are being duped?

      "I bring you pain, the kind you can't suffer quietly.
      Fire up your brain, remind you inside your rioting
      society is slipping..."

      --Dr Horrible

    4. Re:TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by wizardforce · · Score: 1

      yes yes we do, both sides. DMCA passed under a republican congress/senate and signed by clinton, the copyright cops nonsense reported on Slashdot passed with only 11 voting no... only 4 of the 238 dems voting against it, 7 of the reps. heart warming isn't it?

      --
      Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
    5. Re:TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such thing as an elite who control things. Everyone knows only petty thieves can commit conspiracy. Intelligent and wealthy people just simply never do it anymore! They just like to let off steam at the annual Bilderberg Conference and the Bohemian Grove (David Gergen does not run around naked like the Republicans! -- google it).

      Don't worry, your elite love you!

    6. Re:TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by iminplaya · · Score: 1

      Reforms?! What reforms? We're still in Iraq. We still have the patriot act. The telcos got their immunity. And Bush is still in office. And the new guy, either of the two we left ourselves, won't change anything. If we were even half vigilant, the entire party, both sides, would be out in the streets, squeegeeing your windshields.

      --
      What?
    7. Re:TAG ARTICLE DEMOCRATS by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      A Point well made; however:

      Democrats are like cats (try herding fat cats.)
      Republicans are like devoted dogs.
      Same master / owner.
      Their stark contrast in behavior conveniently fools the public.

      NOTE:
      This is a filibuster record setting Senate that requires veto override for anything worthwhile to get past chipboy. If they banned filibuster like the GOP threatened to do (when they saw next to none) they would never get enough veto over ride votes.

  8. Good. Kill NIH access! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    It wasn't invented here, anyway.

    1. Re:Good. Kill NIH access! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clap, clap, but I predict a resounding "whoosh!" from the masses.

  9. taxpayer funded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just like the results of any other endevaour funded by tax-payers, the results of the government-funded research should be accessible to the public unless there are compelling security reasons against it.

    That's exactly what NIH did - mandate public access. I can only imagine the arcane arguments being conjured up by the lobbyist groups to explain why publishing companies should retain copyright to works that they neither funded, conducted nor authored. Given that one side of the argument is just common sense, and the other is backed by cash, I fully expect the congress to roll over in their usual manner.

    The only consolation that I see is that the market will quickly render those publishing models obsolete. Since the margins of publishing works on the web are extremely low, the large publishing houses are faced with hard competition from the open-access journals. They'll either reform to provide some additional value (e.g. prompt reviews instead of several-month haggle) or die out.

    1. Re:taxpayer funded by reptilicus · · Score: 1

      If the taxpayers fund small business loans, do the products sold by those businesses belong to me as well? How come I don't get free corn from all the farm subsidies my taxes go to fund?

      As far as open-access publishing goes, recent studies show that high-volume journals with minimal editorial oversight are nicely profitable. The problem comes when you want either a specialized journal or a high-quality journal that rejects most of what's submitted (think Nature or Science). Since open access journals only take in revenue for accepted articles, they're under pressure to publish more material and reject less, thus lowering overall quality. So the business model only works for particular types of science publishing.

      In the long run, there's room for both models, and it's unlikely that one will fail and be replaced by the other. Each has its own strengths.

    2. Re:taxpayer funded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the taxpayers fund small business loans, do the products sold by those businesses belong to me as well? How come I don't get free corn from all the farm subsidies my taxes go to fund?

      In a sense you do - the produce you see in the store includes a price break resulting from government subsidies. In case of a scientific study, the primary tangible product is a manuscript describing the results, which can be shared.

      But the situation in publishing is more absurd than that. To follow your analogy, the farm pays a third party company to take the corn they produced, which is then sold at further profit to you.

      The issue is what value does this intermediary add given current technology. In my opinion, very little.

      The problem comes when you want either a specialized journal or a high-quality journal that rejects most of what's submitted (think Nature or Science).

      Seems like open-access, low-margin model should work much better for a specialized journal than a traditional publishing house. It pretty much can be maintained as a glorified blog ran by the scientific community with minimal administrative assistance. The low-margin solutions are generally more suitable for "long-tail" topics.

      Why should publishing system be tied to the evaluation/ratings system? Why can't papers be published after review regardless of their "scientific merit" and only then rated by a larger community? The common answer to that is that the volume of the papers would be too large for the community to digest properly. In that case, editorial groups can select papers they consider particularly interesting. Such groups may end up being similar to the current major journals, but they would not hinder access to scientific results - something that they did not contribute anything to.

      So it seemed to me that the NIH open access policy was exactly what was needed to separate publishing from evaluation and editorial influence (helpful or otherwise). It could serve as a base for reforming the overall process, but now it's likely to be scrapped in the name of ill-deserved copyrights.

    3. Re:taxpayer funded by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Just like the results of any other endevaour funded by tax-payers

      We also fund a great deal of the oil exploration (most of which occurs on public land).

      Yet, we don't see any of the profits from this oil (unless you're from Alaska).

      Today, right now, the (Democratic-controlled) House of Representatives is voting on a bill to allow offshore drilling for oil. The bill allows for a certain portion of the royalties from this drilling to fund research into alternative forms of energy. The Republicans are opposing this bill and the President (who happens to be a Republican as well as an oil man) promises to veto it. Specifically, they are opposing the part of the bill that funds alternative energy research.

      What say we don't elect anyone to the White House who has any ties to oil companies? Just for a while.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:taxpayer funded by jgarra23 · · Score: 1


      Specifically, they are opposing the part of the bill that funds alternative energy research.

      can you provide a reference to a Republican source that states this? If only to strengthen your argument... an din doing so, please ensure that there is not some additional rider on the bill that wold necessitate killing it as well, rather that this is the specific reason and not something justifiable...

    5. Re:taxpayer funded by reptilicus · · Score: 1

      In that case, editorial groups can select papers they consider particularly interesting. Such groups may end up being similar to the current major journals, but they would not hinder access to scientific results

      And how does that get paid for? Isn't that just pushing the same subscription money around a little differently? Sure, you could access the material for free, but there's so much of it that you can't make heads or tails of it. So you end up paying for editorial oversight, and we're right back where we started.

      Also note that open archives without editorial oversight like arXiv are already being gamed for advantage.

  10. Government Employees CANNOT claim copyright... by volxdragon · · Score: 1

    A government employee is BARRED from initiating copyright on any document. They can patent up the whazzooo, but copyright does not exist for government employees. Now contracters are a complete different story... I was a Government employee for 5 years and all dozen+ of my academic papers published (including in journals that required a fee) were exempt from copyright (and we made them available for free on our website at the time, much to the annoyance of the journals, but there wasn't anything they could do about it).

  11. Re:What party is in power in Congress right now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    except all the reps in the article are Democrats - didn't someone post a chart with who supports who (copyright == mostly Democrats).

  12. Also, tag it "hope" and "change" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This must be the change we've all been hoping for. We are the ones we've been waiting for. Whatever that means. And all that other vacuous, feel-good nonsense.

  13. Forget publishing, what about patents? by reptilicus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If the results of research funded by the public do indeed belong to the public, why should universities and researchers be allowed to patent products coming from that same research. The universities where I've worked rely heavily on their patent portfolios for funding, as do many professors. I wonder how many scientists are willing to give up intellectual property rights from the fruits of their research?

    1. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by Darkness404 · · Score: 1

      Fix the illness, not the symptoms. Patents in and of themselves are not bad. In fact, patents partially motivate research. The bad part of patents come along when the government thinks that you can patent anything and that 2-3 years after a product becomes a major item someone can sue for a lot of money on a trivial part of the product.

      --
      Taxation is legalized theft, no more, no less.
    2. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      This is a highly insightful parent comment.

      The reality is that those of us working for NIH (my prior job) and NIA (my current job) mostly have no problem with more reasonable (e.g. 17 year copyright and shorter patent periods) limitations, but that we were discussing the limitations on our publishing our research.

      Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a conference on Alzheimers to prepare for, and Neuropathology data to make jump through a series of hoops ...

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by falconwolf · · Score: 1

      If the results of research funded by the public do indeed belong to the public, why should universities and researchers be allowed to patent products coming from that same research.

      They shouldn't be awarded patents. Sure they can start a business to make whatever it is. While others could do the same thing the inventor has the First-mover advantage advantage.

      I wonder how many scientists are willing to give up intellectual property rights from the fruits of their research?

      If they don't want their research to be open accessible then they can pay for the research themselves or get private funding. One of the requirements for public, taxpayer, funding of research should be open access.

      Falcon

    4. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      The answer is ZERO, unless you are going to just pay me more.

      You can't just take away money out of a system. Allowing patents are just a way of hiding the true costs of doing research. Take patents away, and costs go up...duh. Patents end up being a user tax, which are wonderful, like gas taxes and tolls. Those that actually use the research, pay for some http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/09/16/208247&from=rss#of it.

    5. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by TimFenn · · Score: 1

      The reason federal funding puts the IP rights into the hands of universities is a result of the Bayh Dole act. Regardless, it only makes universities the bad guys rather than the government. Its worth noting, though: the NIH has taken steps so research tools (patents granted for processes that do not lead to commercialization) that are developed with federal funds must be made available to other scientists under reasonable terms. Not ideal, but its a step. Read NIH 64 FR 72090 for the full details.

      --
      CAPS LOCK IS THE CRUISE CONTROL OF AWESOMNESS
    6. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by reptilicus · · Score: 1

      So by that reasoning, shouldn't we just consider the cost of subscribing to journals to be yet another user tax?

    7. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by virtualXTC · · Score: 1

      While a similar premise to the open access mandate, its a bit off topic, nevertheless, I'll bite. I work in a supposedly "open-access environment" where we are encouraged to share, yet everyone still insists on a Nature paper rather than PLoS One Biology. It's a culture problem. Just yesterday I was having this same discussion about drug patentablity with a very pro open access co-worker, and they responded "you know I never though about." Most of the researchers I've had this conversation with conceded, that if they were guaranteed "full funding" they'd be willing to give up patent rights. The problem is most government grants fall far short of full funding. Often, government grants isn't even enough to finish out the entire research (I'm writing one up right now that won't even cover 1/10 of the project), or funding will be cut in the middle of a project due to a change of interests. Even if your project is successful, congress may not pass the additional funding needed to continue your work. This leaves Hospitals and Universities to pick up the slack, after they've already fronted the added costs of an administrative staff, security and janitorial services, HR benifits, building space, lights, computers, pens, paper, copiers, ink ect.. Until today, even if a fully funded project was to make a discovery, there was no way to bring such a drug to market due to the overwhelming costs of clinical trials. Further, just because US taxpayers paid for the development of a drug, doesn't mean the rest of the world should get it royalty free (unless the was the intention during funding, such as malaria research). That said, I can't wait for the US to follow India's lead on this one, and would happily return to engineering if they do.

    8. Re:Forget publishing, what about patents? by delt0r · · Score: 1

      I wonder how many scientists are willing to give up intellectual property rights from the fruits of their research?

      I don't want a patent on anything I work on (I work at a University). Yet I am forced to run any publication past the patent lawyers who get to check for patentablity. Yep a lawyer decides if something is inventive, and I can't cancel the patent if they decide if they want to proceed. Thats the agreement for the funding. I do however get 20% and the department another 20-40% IIRC of the royalties. But am not allowed to set the royalties or have anything to do with "marketing" the patent.

      I would gladly give all that up. I want my stuff public domain. I don't want to have any patents and I don't want others to patent it. There are many more like me.

      --
      If information wants to be free, why does my internet connection cost so much?
  14. whose copyright? by digitalderbs · · Score: 5, Insightful

    under the false pretense of protecting copyrights

    It's certainly not to protect the originator of these ideas : the researcher. All of the high-tiered journals I've published in have required a copyright sign-over to the publisher -- for free. This is to protect the publisher and not the people that create these ideas/research. Copyright protection in this case certainly isn't promoting the production/producers of ideas.

    This system is backwards and broken.

    1. Re:whose copyright? by tburkhol · · Score: 3, Interesting

      under the false pretense of protecting copyrights

      It's certainly not to protect the originator of these ideas : the researcher. All of the high-tiered journals I've published in have required a copyright sign-over to the publisher -- for free.

      If you're allowed to sign over your copyright for free, you're in a relatively progressive discipline. I routinely pay $50-$250 per page, roughly $1000 per article, to get the publisher to accept those copyrights. To be fair, the terms of the license the publisher wants vary quite widely. Many of them now ask only for non-exclusive copyrights; most will allow the author to include the work in his own Ph.D. thesis (which is convenient); and even without the law, some allow you to submit your work to public repositories (like PubMed Central) 6-12 months after the journal's publication. Curiously, my experience has been that "Society Organs" have been associated with the most restrictive copyright transfers, where "for profit" journals have been more responsive to author concerns.

    2. Re:whose copyright? by wintermind · · Score: 1

      As a point of information, note that if you are employed directly by the Federal government, as I am, then copyrights cannot be assigned to the publisher. We are generally permitted to post our own version of the paper (i.e. not the journal's fancy typeset version which appears in print) to our website, and to distribute the paper freely. Once the embargo (typically one year) has expired we post the publisher's PDF version or link directly to their site.

  15. Re:What party is in power in Congress right now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But they aren't the party in power. Hmmmm

  16. Nice neutral summary there by Brett+Buck · · Score: 0

    "False Pretense"? How do we know that? Maybe they sincerely believe it. Not everything you don't agree with is fraudulent.

              Brett

  17. A little more nefarious than you may think... by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 0, Troll

    Guess who has their main office within NIH grounds? Kellogg Brown & Root... the other side of Halliburton. They don't want their dirty little secrets to get mixed up in the frey and exposed.

    This is your public service announcement.

    --

    "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
  18. RMS has written on this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  19. Publishers are good but not perfect by Chowder42 · · Score: 1

    In defense of the journals, there is a nice feedback system where the journals for a field are tiered by impact factor (cited/submitted ratio) and important articles are found in and submitted to a few top level journals. It would be unfortunate to see this system break down. Granted, the publishers could certainly lower their prices, and make anything more than a decade old available online. (Opinion comes from a researcher who has access to most journals but still finds it really annoying when an article is not available at the library)

    --
    Cheers.
  20. Has anyone tried creating an open journal? by NewbieProgrammerMan · · Score: 1

    Has there been any effort to establish an open, reputation-based peer review system for papers? If not, are there big reasons it wouldn't work? (Apart from the vast effort required to screen out every nutjob with a "revolutionary new theory" that they will cling to no matter how much reality disagrees with them, that is.)

    --
    [b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
    1. Re:Has anyone tried creating an open journal? by mapsjanhere · · Score: 1

      two words - quality control
      To do an accepted journal, you need to have a peer review system. To have a peer review system, you need editor(s) who can recruit volunteers to do the peer review, who read (at least the abstract) of every paper submitted, assign the reviewers, collect the reviewers comments, send them back, get reply, second round of reviews, pass it on to web master who uploads etc. In the classic world, this is all done for free since every academic knows that's the way things work, a year or two of editor belongs on your resume etc. Your open journal (free as in beer) is only going to be accepted if it follows this procedure, not if it's free as in speech.
      If you make it free as in speech you get arXiv, a great source of new stuff, but not peer reviewed, and filled with a lot of "controversial" research. But it's free as in both beer and speech.

      --
      I'm aging rapidly, I bought a new game and had no idea if my machine was good for it.
    2. Re:Has anyone tried creating an open journal? by mike3411 · · Score: 2, Informative

      check out plos.org
      its not the end-all by any means, but a step in the right direction :)

      --
      Mod me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
    3. Re:Has anyone tried creating an open journal? by NewbieProgrammerMan · · Score: 1

      Certainly, having a pile of unreviewed papers, or papers reviewed by people that don't know what the hell they're talking about, is mostly worthless.

      Thanks for mentioning the "everybody does it for free because they want it on their resume" thing--I didn't know whether people that did reviews for journals were paid by the journal or not.

      --
      [b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
    4. Re:Has anyone tried creating an open journal? by jmcharry · · Score: 1

      That might work with a slight modification of the /. system. If there were a hierarchy of reviewers, such as reputable journeymen could mod up or down from a default one; maybe assistant professors to a two; associates to a three; the graybeards to a four; reserving the final mod to the review committee. If each level meta-mods the level below, and can opt to meta-mod any lower level and look at any level they please, this could work rather quickly. Maybe if someone consistently gets their upgrades upgraded, they could be promoted a level. It would be an interesting experiment.

    5. Re:Has anyone tried creating an open journal? by Internalist · · Score: 1

      Here's an example from one of my domains:

      http://www.biolinguistics.eu/

      --
      Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing. -- Wernher von Braun
    6. Re:Has anyone tried creating an open journal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, has anyone tried to apply Slashdot-style moderation to scientific publication?

      This is essentially what the peer review system is. Granted, it's (mostly) not online, and it's not open to anyone. But journals are read because of the reputations of their editors and peer reviewers.

  21. Link to subcommittee hearing by langelgjm · · Score: 2, Informative

    BTW, if you want to view the subcommittee hearing, here's a link to it.

    Also, don't /. it, I want to be able to watch it later tonight!

    --
    "Anyone who [rips a CD] is probably engaging in copyright infringement." - David O. Carson
  22. "PIAA" by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

    No doubt we'll be hearing of a PIAA soon. Got to learn the American way, get a government grant, steal or connive the answer or product from someone else, then charge a one time charge again and again....

  23. Academics, too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This controversy concerns just the works created by NIH (government) employees. The policy of open access should extend equally to academics who receive NIH funding.

    1. Re:Academics, too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article may not have been entirely clear, but the open access policy does in fact to any NIH-funded research, not just that conducted by NIH employees.

    2. Re:Academics, too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it concerns all research funded by the NIH, and thus it is applied to academics far more than it is to NIH employees.

    3. Re:Academics, too! by CapsaicinBoy · · Score: 1

      This controversy concerns just the works created by NIH (government) employees. The policy of open access should extend equally to academics who receive NIH funding.

      You are incorrect. As of this spring, all NIH funded research, not just work by NIH intramural researchers, is covered by NIH's open access policy.

      http://publicaccess.nih.gov/

    4. Re:Academics, too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Incorrect. The NIH Public Access Policy applies to any peer-reviewed manuscript that was the result of research supported by:

      Any direct funding from an NIH grant or cooperative agreement active in Fiscal Year 2008, or;
      Any direct funding from an NIH contract signed on or after April 7, 2008, or;
      Any direct funding from the NIH Intramural Program, or;
      An NIH employee.

      Thus, it is not restricted to the subset of works authored only by government employees.

  24. About that saying by 800DeadCCs · · Score: 1

    People say "don't throw out the baby with the bathwater"
    but what if there's no baby?
    What if there's NOTHING there?
    What if it's a xenomorph? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_(franchise)/

  25. do something about it! by DragonTHC · · Score: 2, Informative

    Write your representative

    Let them know you're not happy about this mess.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
    1. Re:do something about it! by mike3411 · · Score: 2, Informative

      That is the right thing to do, if politicians see how important this issue is then maybe they will not be so inclined to support it.

      Use the above link to contact your local representative, also it might not hurt to contact the sponsors of the bill:

      Howard Berman
      http://www.house.gov/berman/contact/

      John Conyers
      http://www.house.gov/conyers/contact.shtml
      or
      http://www.johnconyers.com/contact

      --
      Mod me down, and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
  26. If the taxpayers fund small business loans, by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    Government shouldn't providing loans to businesses. Instead it should reduce if not eliminate taxes and some regulations. Why should a law care business be required to be licensed when they do the same thing a do-it-yourself homeowner does? Are homeowners going to need a license as well? Big and established businesses like these regulations because it reduces their competition.

    How come I don't get free corn from all the farm subsidies my taxes go to fund?

    Farm subsidies, which the likes of Archer Daniels Midland and Cargill get billions of dollars from, massively distort the market. Early this year by a veto proof margin congress passed a farm bill with almost $300 Billion in subsidies. Subsidies are only supposed to be temperary, to get a business or industry going, or help get through hard tymes after which they are supposed to make their own way. However farm subsides are not only permanent but get bigger every year.

    And it's not just the US that gives large farm subsidies, of which very little goes to small farmers, Canada, Europe, and Japan also give large subsidies.

    Falocn

  27. I use PubMed Central. by Neanderthal+Ninny · · Score: 1

    PubMed and other NIH open access resources and they all protect copyright material already. They only put the title, authors, publisher, volume, date, pages,PMID, related articles and short abstract of the full article. There is a link to publisher which holds part of copyright so they can sell you the full article to you. There is no copyright infringement that I can see or any from infringement of intellectual property rights in what is giving out by PubMed Central. They only show you a short abstract of your full article what is published and they link you to the full article to publisher.
    However there are a few articles in PubMed Central that are open without copyright that author and publisher have allow open access without copyright issues other than you must quote them in bibliography.
    I don't understand why is congress changing current open access rules?

    1. Re:I use PubMed Central. by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      There is no copyright infringement that I can see or any from infringement of intellectual property rights in what is giving out by PubMed Central. They only show you a short abstract of your full article what is published and they link you to the full article to publisher.

      I'm having difficulty parsing your words. The articles in Pubmed Central are free.

      All the articles in PMC are free (sometimes on a delayed basis). Some journals go beyond free, to Open Access.

      PubMed Central is a small subset of PubMed, which also indexes non-free articles. For most of those, free access is limited to the abstract or, occasionally, the first 100 words or so.

  28. Part of the problem... by Ieshan · · Score: 5, Informative

    Speaking as a scientist, part of the problem is that the system is admittedly broken but extremely entrenched.

    In my field (Cognitive Psychology / Neuroscience) publishers do NOT typically charge page costs for printing, and so researchers did not request that the cost be covered by their grants (standard practice in fields that do require these page costs). Now, NIH says that research must be open access, but to defray the incredible costs in lost subscriptions for doing so, large publication houses are deciding that the best way to do so is by charging researchers page costs.

    Would this be a problem if the legislation was written in such a way as to be progressive? No. But, as it currently stands, Journals want to charge researchers for publication - even if they don't have the money to pay for it. For example, suppose you researched the interaction of some protein and some drug as a post-doc while on an NIH funded grant that has subsequently expired - how do you afford to publish that research if you are currently funded by another institution or lab?

    In theory, open-access research is great. You'll notice that it's not scientists who want closed access research - most of them have the majority of their work up on websites (flagrantly violating copyright, which they no longer own to their own work) because the journal would never dare attack a scientist (it would be terrible karma and invite a huge backlash). Scientists are incredibly pro-access. But, the business model is so broken that there's really no alternative unless the legislation carefully reworks the industry rather than simply changing the rules overnight, putting it into a blender, and hoping that what comes out is what you intended.

    The other major problem, as a scientist, is that the large majority of work is really published for the scientific community and not for the layperson. It is simply a tragic fact that since the majority of Americans do not believe in Evolution, they do not need access to journals about Evolutionary Biology, nor would they understand the research if it was published there. Before people get up in arms - I know that there are plenty of good examples of places where people DO need access or could make use of access to publicly funded research and that it ought to be available (e.g., private radiology practices should have access to the best and newest in radiological findings, but these journal costs are so prohibitive that only the best libraries can afford them).

    So, the business model is broken, the solutions to the business model are broken, and the rationale for fixing it is really just as broken. It's really a bad set of circumstances all around.

    1. Re:Part of the problem... by droopycom · · Score: 1

      I feel really stupid, I dont get why its so complicated.

      It just seem so simple to me (but I'm probably just a very simple person...)

      If the scientist and universities were so incredibly pro open-access, why dont they just start their own open-access friendly, not for profit, publishing platform ?

      I can understand that there is a credibility issue, but one would think that if some big scientist organization and university were backing this publishing platform, I'm pretty sure that credibility would not be a problem...

      Why do the scientist and the universities need legislations ?

      Why the complications ? Why should there be a business model at all ?

    2. Re:Part of the problem... by PvtVoid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Would this be a problem if the legislation was written in such a way as to be progressive? No. But, as it currently stands, Journals want to charge researchers for publication - even if they don't have the money to pay for it.

      Page charges are not evil. Open access journals work on exactly this model: they fund themselves by page charges rather than subscription charges. This is on the face of it entirely reasonable. The real killer is that universities pay journal subscription costs out of overhead, so researchers publishing in open access journals pay twice: once in page charges, and once in overhead to cover library costs for the subscription-based journals they're not publishing in. Until this changes, open access journals are DOA. But it's not the page charges that are the problem, it's the blanket subsidy to closed-access journals from overhead. It's the academic equivalent of paying the RIAA a fee for every blank tape you buy. Good luck getting the university to reduce your overhead for the privilege of cutting off Elsevier's profit...

    3. Re:Part of the problem... by Ieshan · · Score: 2, Informative

      A few reasons.

      First, there actually are such organizations.

      For example:
      Comparative Cognition and Behavior Reviews
      http://psyc.queensu.ca/ccbr/
      a journal that is free, open web access, and still peer-reviewed by experts in the field.

      But, there is still a large credibility gap. For example, if you put down on your resume that you were a senior writer for CNN, that has more weight when you go to find your next job than if you were a senior writer for a local newspaper. Also, large journals have a much broader readership and the ability to disseminate their work to other media outlets, which increases the probability of your work getting cited and referenced.

      It's also not so easy to start a journal. Google scholar requires that you be a reputable source before they index you. OVID requires a much more stringent standard. ISI Web of Science requires an even more stringent standard. In a day where libraries are essentially not used and everyone finds out about your work through the internet, not having your work published in a major search engine is a serious publication barrier. There are also a lot of technological and technical (page setting, layout, typesetting, etc) barriers to creating professional looking manuscripts that are non-trivial.

      Lastly, it is a difficult fight to win. You work through undergrad to get into a good grad program. You work during your grad studies to get a nice job. You get a nice job and you work hard to get tenure. You get tenure and you work hard to get a grant. You get a grant and you work hard to get it funded a second time. When in this process are you supposed to start a journal that competes with other publication outlets, and who is going to take you seriously when you do? It's very difficult for an individual scientist to buck the system, even though most are strongly pro-access.

      It would be a little bit like being an independent musician, except there are no cheap bars where you can play small gigs to get by while you fight your crusade against the machine. Musicians always have that choice: 1) you can sign with a big label, 2) sign with a small independent label that preserves your rights but makes it very difficult to get widespread recognition, or 3) quit the music business. Scientists only get option 1 or option 3.

    4. Re:Part of the problem... by Plutonite · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "So, the business model is broken, the solutions to the business model are broken, and the rationale for fixing it is really just as broken. It's really a bad set of circumstances all around."

      You can only fix this by providing a mechanism for free, verifiable, respectable peer review. Why are journals important? For computer science, ACM IEEE and all the other conferences and journals are simply a matter of recognition. Scientific today is a begging game. Scientists unfortunately have to "prove" themselves to society by doing work that is recognized by certain central bodies that bestow recognition. This is because scientists want to secure funding for their work, which (if purely scientific) will have nothing immediate to do with human beings and their resources and economies and lives. This obviously differs from field to field, and indeed within fields(applied and theoretical), but I am talking about science and math in the Greek sense, for the sake of knowledge alone. Pure math. Ordinarily, society would have no interest in funding such activity that has no announced goal to benefit said society in any way, except the most noble way, which is to further human understanding of the universe. The most meaningful human activity, the one that sets us apart from all other animals, is the ability to use abstraction and logical reflection to do science. It is also the least useful in materialist terms, until the work somehow finds its way into human civilization, usually without initial intention being as such.

      So private bodies and government require this measure of worth to provide the money. Of course, millions are wasted in the process, which is exactly why it is a "broken" model as you said.

      Even those of us in a field like comp.sci, which has direct applicative potential in almost all its branches (and is central to all sorts of industries, hence huge amounts of funding available), the ability to "publish" in peer-reviewed journals is the measure by which that potential is judged.

      If someone can come up with a respectable publishing scheme with peer review from academia, the problem would go away. Expensive journals would be forced to adopt authors' conditions, and universities could fund their professors rather fund the publisher so that the professors could get grant funding in this bizarre roundabout way. Alternatively, scientists can devote themselves to well paying day jobs and publish wherever the hell they want, whatever they want. How will we know the good science from the bad? Voluntary peer review from other academics. And the fact that with less monetary incentive to publish, only those who truly think they have something to write will do so.

    5. Re:Part of the problem... by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      The thing that frustrates me with all kinds of publicly-funded research (whether via grants or directly from government institutions) is the lack of access to data.

      Some lab will spend $10k generating a data point. Then they won't spend $1.95 to put that data somewhere on a website but instead will turn it over to some commercial entity who will charge $14.95 for every person who downloads one copy of that datapoint.

      Now, if a government lab operates without taxpayer funding but instead charges use fees to the industry it supports in exchange for data, I can see the legitimacy of that model. It doesn't cost the public anything, and those who need the info pay for it.

      However, in most cases the taxpayers foot the whole bill, but they can't access the data.

      Now, some argue that the average taxpayer has no interest in some scholarly article on physical chemistry or whatever. That isn't the point. Open access benefits the public indirectly, and it is also benefitical to scientists who wouldn't mind keeping up on published work but who aren't affiliated with a university that has a bazillion dollars for journal subscriptions. The average scientist working in industry almost never keeps up with published science (to the loss of scientists everywhere) because they aren't going to fork out for subscriptions and most industrial labs won't pay for any but the most essential journals for their field.

      It is such a waste when we have millions to spend on research, but the cost to set up a website to publish the results is considered excessive. I'm sure that for less than what the NIH pays in grants for page costs they could set up and operate their own peer-reviewed online publication system (available to scientists and professionals of all disciplines). The value of that would be enormous.

    6. Re:Part of the problem... by ggwood · · Score: 1

      A few reasons.

      First, there actually are such organizations.

      For example:
      Comparative Cognition and Behavior Reviews
      http://psyc.queensu.ca/ccbr/
      a journal that is free, open web access, and still peer-reviewed by experts in the field.

      I cannot find any such journal in physics or biophysics. I can either submit to a print journal where it will not be open (for at least some period of time) for free or an open access journal for a lot of money.

      At my university, I can get away with going with a low profile publication but I know most people do not have that luxury.

      --
      a war on terrorism? How can we end a war on a method?
  29. In defense of the journals, by falconwolf · · Score: 1

    there is a nice feedback system where the journals for a field are tiered by impact factor (cited/submitted ratio) and important articles are found in and submitted to a few top level journals. It would be unfortunate to see this system break down.

    And why is this tier system necessary? Other than for the profits of the publishers that is?

    Falcon

  30. Require vs. Allow by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    Congress might reverse the decision to require open access, but it can't legislate the publishers to prevent them from individually choosing to participate. Many do so willingly and with less restriction than the present regulations require, as TFA notes. They will likely continue. If others revert to the previous stance, they will be signing their own death warrants, as the open access journals will get wider reference, and so become the journals of choice for publication.

    In any case, I think it's an election year stunt by IP business supported legislators. I think they're trying to drum up votes in the manner in which they've been accustom, FUDmongering.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  31. Hey New Yorkers by opencity · · Score: 1

    Anthony Weiner is on the committee and even if you don't live in the 9th you know he's running for Mayor or Governor in the next couple of years. He's gonna want the science / internet vote.

    Also, from what little I can tell, he's not an idiot.

    Drop him an email

    --
    Physics is like sex: sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it.
  32. Freedom of Information...?? by spungebob · · Score: 1

    Since the NIH is a government agency, why not just screw the publisher and demand the information under the Freedom of Information Act? (yes, USA only I know) I'm sure there would be a fee under the FOIA but it could be a whole lot less than paying a publisher, who would get squat out of the arrangement.

    Maybe that's a bit far-fetched but even if everyone just did that for a while as a form of protest it might get the point across to the folks on Capitol Hill.

    --
    It takes an idiot to do cool things - that's why it's cool!
  33. Suggested letter to Representative by dhirsch226 · · Score: 1

    Here is the letter I just sent my representative (Rick Larsen). You might consider doing the same.

    Hello, Rick. I am a Democrat and an Associate Professor of Geology at Western WA University and I just found out about HR 6845, introduced by John Conyers. This is a bad bill, because it takes a dramatic step backwards on the issue of scientific publication. Please take a stand against it.

    The current state of science publication is untenable. Every year, journal costs rise faster than library budgets and we must cut our access to valuable journals, which hampers scientific research. Authors are not paid for their work, nor are peer reviewers, and yet the journals are making money hand over fist. Everybody knows that the ultimate solution lies in free and open internet-based publication, but getting there is tricky.

    The government made a remarkable step forward a few years ago when the National Institutes of Health required that the results of any NIH-funded research be freely available to the public online at PubMedCentral after a one-year delay (to allow the publication in a print journal). This set a valuable precedent and was obviously fair: if the US taxpayers are funding the research, they should be able to see the results without paying again! The Conyers bill (HR 6845) would reverse this positive step.

    I urge you to instead come out in favor of expanding this principle to the National Science Foundation. The progress of science will be dramatically enhanced if all NSF-funded research is also subject to the same free-access rule. I would welcome further discussions with you on this topic if you wish.

  34. This is prior art... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... to Web 2.0

    The "social" web isn't a new way of doing business or exploiting people, but merely the translation of existing methods into a new medium.

  35. Significance of California by jonaskoelker · · Score: 1

    25% of the [Intellectual Property Subcommittee] is from California.

    For the few who may be unaware:

    Hollywood is a district in the city of Los Angeles, California

    (so sayeth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood)

    That's of course why it's interesting to note the numerousity of Californians in that particular committee.

  36. It costs $3600 to post an article online. by lfp98 · · Score: 1

    People complain that the publishers make money hand-over fist, but the alternative has been tried and it is equally costly. Many journals went open-access several years ago, meaning that investigators now pay to publish their papers there (after full peer review etc.), and online access is then free and open to all. This was projected to cost $1000-1500 per article (which already seems like a lot), but most recently I paid an astonishing $3600 to publish a single 10-page article in such a journal, and that is not an atypical fee. In fact there are many nonprofit open-access journals and they charge about the same fees. Can it possibly cost that much to process an article and then simply post it? You would think there would be huge savings in not having to actually print and distribute the journal, keep track of subscriptions, or control access to the site. Yet despite the frictionless efficiency of electronic communication, costs seem somehow to have exploded far beyond what it used to cost when we had physical journals instead -- never mind the fact that now it is individual investigators instead of university libraries who have to pay.

  37. People in other countries must be *so* jealous by J.R.+Random · · Score: 1

    We have the best congress money can buy.

  38. What do we have to do to see the results? by owndao · · Score: 1

    What are we going to have to do to see the results of research we have paid for with our tax dollars? Sign in with our SSNs as our user names and electronically sign a non-disclosure agreement? ;)

    --
    Be as you would have the world become.