Paralyzed Man In "Coma" For 23 Years Was Actually Conscious

overcaffein8d writes "A man who was paralyzed and thought to be comatose for 23 years had his nightmare ended. A hi-tech scan showed his brain was still functioning almost completely normally. From the article: 'I screamed, but there was nothing to hear,' said Mr. Houben, now 46, who doctors thought was in a persistent vegetative state. "I dreamed myself away," he added, tapping his tale out with the aid of a computer. Mr. Houben said: "I shall never forget the day when they discovered what was truly wrong with me — it was my second birth. I want to read, talk with my friends via the computer and enjoy my life now that people know I am not dead."'"

Comments

A coma you say?

[Profane MuthaFucka]

I know I know it's serious.

Withdrawing Life Support = Sadistic

[bill_mcgonigle]

This is a good example of why the whole idea of withdrawing life support is wrong - under other circumstances, this man may have been simply left to die from dehydration or starvation.

Without debating the matter of killing expensive patients with poor outcomes chances, society should at least have the balls to treat them as well as it would insist on for a pet if it's going to kill them anyway.

If courts are going to wade into this, surely they have as much a duty to prevent cruel and unusual 'healthcare' as punishment, and if the chances of proper diagnosis aren't 100%, then the same reasoning should come into play as that for assuming the accused innocent.

Re:Withdrawing Life Support = Sadistic

[Lemmy Caution]

To be honest, I would prefer death to 23 years of that kind of hell.

Re:Withdrawing Life Support = Sadistic

[oldspewey]

Find a way to turn it into a positive. Just think of it as the ultimate Buddhist training.

Re:Withdrawing Life Support = Sadistic

[TD-Linux]

One would never, _ever_ withdraw life support without this sort of brain scan, at the bare minimum.

Re:Withdrawing Life Support = Sadistic

[bill_mcgonigle]

One would never, _ever_ withdraw life support without this sort of brain scan, at the bare minimum.

except it hasn't existed up until now but they do so already?

Ridiculous

[MadMatr07]

So how is it, that they decided to perform the "hi-tech scan" after 23 years?! That's absolutely ridiculous. What, did the doctors get bored one day and decide to finally pay attention to the human mantle-piece?

Re:Ridiculous

[tresho]

So how is it, that they decided to perform the "hi-tech scan" after 23 years?! The original article talked about "state of the art" imaging. The state of medical arts is always changing. I imagine it has changed HUGELY in 23 years.

Re:Ridiculous

[Fallen Kell]

Think back to 1985 or 1986... These kinds of scans simply didn't exist. Computer use was only just starting to happen in hospitals. CAT scans and MRI scans were just finally making their way into most hospitals....

Persistent Vegetative States

[tresho]

These are diagnoses of exclusion. Physicians have to 'rule out', i.e., be sure, that nothing else is going on, when making this type of diagnosis. This is epistemologically tricky.

I Call BS

[DynaSoar]

Actually, I call troll.

The article uses coma and PVS (persistent vegetative state) interchangeably. They're not. And the symptoms described do not belong to either of those, but rather to "locked in state". Since the article makes these two glaring errors, as well as the following, I call BS on the author and Mail Online. The difference between these three states is well understood by the neurologists that would have diagnosed him after having performed the test far more accurate in differentiating these, the same EEG that's been around for far longer than this man's problems. There'd be no reason to use a far more expensive and far less accurate test.

The article is a troll, intended solely to push peoples' buttons regarding with regards to the life support and health care cost issues. If I'm wrong about it being a troll, fine, but I'm not wrong about it being a fake. The details show that it was written with no understanding of the subject, which would not have happened if actual neurologists were consulting on a real case and were interviewed for a story. There's too many problems for them to be able to weasel out of it by claiming there were 'some mistakes'.
 

Re:I Call BS

[NervousWreck]

1-ignorance is not malice. 2-The fact that a post will lead to political discussion does not make it troll I call flamebait if anything.

Re:I Call BS

[DynaSoar]

2. Flamebait, perhaps, but "lead to political discussion" is a bit generous. I doubt the result was intended to be discussion.

1. One does not write and publish such a specific article out of ignorance. In particular one does not do so stating that medical professionals scored a test wrong leading to the error when they would have long before performed an EEG that would have given the correct result. The doctor who supposedly done the 'high tech brain scan' would not have made this error either. One does not do the research for such an article, or interview real professionals in the field, and remain so abysmally ignorant as to make the mistakes noted as well as others not mentioned. One can only remain that ignorant by not researching and not interviewing. Having not done so, to write and publish it is intentional fraud. That requires a measure of ignorance, thinking one could get away with it, but it took more besides.

Re:I Call BS

[Anonymous Coward]

James Randi calls BS too. In the video that was released, the coma guy was shown assisted in his communicating. His caretaker holds his hand while it rapidly types out his messages. Check out This Cruel Farce Has to Stop (http://www.randi.org)

Re:I Call BS

[DarkIye]

Additionally to the 'political discussion' point, what stories like this do actually help make any real discussion very difficult because people get stoked up with emotions, rather than thinking about facts. Consequently now, a small bunch of people, when thinking who to vote for, will see a candidate's policy on 'reducing healthcare spending' and immediately think 'WE CAN'T HAVE MORE PEOPLE LYING IN THEIR BEDS FOR 23 YEARS, OH GOD HOW HORRIBLE', and not vote for someone who might be a totally sensible candidate.

And, of course, stories like this come out all the time, so the number of people who think like this is growing. Basically, stories like this (and publications like the Daily Mail in general) do nothing but help to shit up the already shitty democratic process by encouraging dumbasses (the majority of the population) to think about garbage.

This happened to a relative of mine.

[Anonymous Coward]

Doctors said he as in a vegetative state after a stroke and asked his wife whether she wanted to unplugged him... and he heard all of it and remembers how he was treated badly by some nurses. He eventually woke up.

Re:This happened to a relative of mine.

[sakdoctor]

If nurses treated me badly whilst I was in a coma then woke up,
I would fly to Okinawa and have a custom made katana, then I would kill them all.

But first I would need to wiggle my big toe.

What friends after 23 years?

[Anonymous Coward]

nt

Skeptical of claims using faciliated communication

[JoshuaZ]

The individual in question is typing by aid of "facilitated communication" where by an assistant helps them type the words. There has been a lot of criticism of this method before. It was attempted with severely autistic kids about a decade ago and later worked showed that it was likely that the messages were coming almost completely from the facilitators not the kids. See http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/11/really_this_guy_is_conscious.php

Withdrawing Support OR Human Ouijja = Sadistic ?

[hitnrunrambler]

I am not a medical professional, and can only judge based on the information we have been given.....

But when I watch this video I don't see the same thing that's being reported.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/11/24/coma.man.belgium/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn

What I see is some very questionable "facilitated communication"
http://www.skepdic.com/facilcom.html

Is it possible that the story is true as it's been presented? I don't know

Is it possible that he can actually be guiding the "communication" when his pupils are not following the motion? I don't know

Is it possible that he is still completely unaware at this point? I don't know

I do know that the only people I've seen saying either "It's a MIRACLE!" or "It's a HOAX" have an agenda to support.... and I don't trust anyone who's that certain based on 3rd hand information.

Timeline?

[okle69]

TFA states he was in the car crash in 1983... if he was in this state for 23 years why are we just hearing about this now?

Re:Skeptical of claims using faciliated communicat

[Locke2005]

Why be skeptical? I hear it works every bit as good as a Ouija board! (And on pretty much the same principle.)

Re:Withdrawing Support OR Human Ouijja = Sadistic

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

"Facilitated Communication": an ouija board for nurses...

Re:Withdrawing Support OR Human Ouijja = Sadistic

[bill_mcgonigle]

Yes, I agree the new information is quite different than originally reported.

This should be easy to test, though - ask the guy something the speech therapist wouldn't know. If he's that aware and well-composed, this should be easy.