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Surgeon Makes Tutorial DVD For Conscious Open-Heart Surgery

Posted by samzenpus on from the looks-easy-enough dept.

Lanxon writes "Swaroup Anand, 23, from Bangalore, was fully conscious as he underwent open-heart surgery. An epidural to the neck, administered at the city’s Wockhardt Hospital, numbed his body during the procedure. Dr Vivek Jawali pioneered the technique ten years ago and has recently released a tutorial on DVD, which gives a step-by-step guide to the procedure for other surgeons to watch and learn from."

170 comments

  1. Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by istartedi · · Score: 4, Funny

    Doctor: Would you like to be awake for this procedure?

    Patient: WTF???

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Funny

      Patient: WTF???

      My thoughts exactly.

      I'm sure there's probably some valid medical reason for doing this -- I just have no idea of what it is. I don't want to be awake when the heart-rate monitor goes to a flat tone. Well, I guess you'd no longer be awake at that point, so it's moot. ;-)

      Cheers

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patient: "Sure, I'll go for it. I like to watch really gross things, like those pop-a-cyst videos on youtube"

      Doctor: "But we'll have a cleanroom cloth up anyway, you won't be able to see a thing. you'll just be lieing there for hours unable to move, while you hear your inards crack and squish, and smell stuff you probably thought you'd never smell in your life outside of a slaughterhouse."

      Patient: "I'm a maschocist?"

      Doctor: "Alright then, that makes it easier, we can skip the epidural."

    3. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'd do it in a second, but I'm betting they put up a screen or something below your head so you can't watch, much less put a monitor/camera above my head so I can easily see what they're doing. Which kinda defeats the purpose, from my end at least. :)

      I've been given the option to be awake for several procedures, and I always say yes, but then they always change their minds at the last minute and knock me out. Maybe they're put off by how eager I sound. Kinda like when the phlebotomist is about to draw blood and sees me staring at vein on my arm, and she says "Do you want to look away?" and I go "nope!", their look changes from one of sympathy to one of being a little weirded out.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Patient: WTF???

      My thoughts exactly.

      I'm sure there's probably some valid medical reason for doing this

      It makes the patient sound like a BAMF.

      "Yeah I had open heart surgery. Got to watch the whole thing. In fact, the Doctor and I made jokes throughout the whole procedure.
      'That's not a tumour, thats my wife!' "

    5. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by sycodon · · Score: 3, Funny

      Dr.: WTF?
      Paitent: Huh?
      Nurse: Ohh...that's isn't good.
      Patient: WT.......

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    6. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by hardburn · · Score: 1

      I didn't want to be awake for getting my wisdom teeth taken out. Why would you? So you can learn about recent movements in your doctor's mutual fund account?

      --
      Not a typewriter
    7. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's likely because there are greater risks involved in general anesthetic. Where possible, it's seen as safer for the patient to use only locals.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    8. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 3, Funny

      This text only interface for communication doesn't sufficiently deliver the same weird look I'm giving you right now.

      I wish I had a webcam and photobucket available right now.

    9. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by RDW · · Score: 1

      Could be worse:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVFstSSUm1w

    10. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Eggplant62 · · Score: 1

      There are not enough mod points to elevate the parent post to where I'd like to see it. I'm like, "Crack my chest? I'm dead to the world, bub. I don't want to know a thing about it."

    11. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by jd142 · · Score: 1

      Yes, they most likely put up a screen. But more importantly, unless they put up a mirror, you aren't going to be able to watch the whole procedure anyway unless they prop your head up so that it would be in the surgeon's way. When someone has your heart in your hand, you don't want them to have to worry about bumping your nose.

      If they wouldn't put up a mirror so I could watch my vasectomy, they sure aren't going to for a heart operation. And yes, I was awake and chatting with everyone in the room during the operation. Morphine doesn't knock you out, it just makes the pain go away.

    12. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      I would want to be awake honestly; the anesthesia disturbs me more than the thought of being sliced open and possibly killed. It really is a personal preference.

      Also keep in mind that, while not for open heart surgery, for many operations the anesthesia is the riskiest part of the procedure; the brain isn't built to be turned on and off at will.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    13. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I sure hope this is not from the video professor. Also can you imagine laying down on the table doc asking for scalpel and hit play on the dvd? Yeah I want to be awake for that.

    14. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by clone53421 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Plus, a conscious patient can tell you if something starts going wrong.

      --
      Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
    15. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by PPalmgren · · Score: 1

      I'm sure some anasthetics could cause complications for at least one in a million. Even if its not the anasthetic itself, maybe someone has some serious sleep complicatins? There is never a solution to any medical problem that will work for everyone, so having multiple methods is always a plus.

    16. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by corbettw · · Score: 3, Funny

      I wish I had a webcam and photobucket available right now.

      How interesting, the rest of us are thankful you do not.

      --
      God invented whiskey so the Irish would not rule the world.
    17. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Abstrackt · · Score: 1

      This text only interface for communication doesn't sufficiently deliver the same weird look I'm giving you right now.

      I wish I had a webcam and photobucket available right now.

      I also wish I had some kind of bucket available.

      --
      They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it's not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett
    18. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by nsayer · · Score: 1

      I'm sure there's probably some valid medical reason for doing this

      General anesthesia is generally more hazardous than local. I recently had surgery. It wasn't open heart surgery, but nevertheless, they wanted to do exactly what this doctor did. In the end, they decided that in my particular case (because I take blood thinners), the epidural carried more risk than general anesthesia, so they knocked me out. But were it not for that, I would have had this same experience.

      When it was described to me, it was not that I would be "awake" for it, but that I'd be rousable - unlike general anesthesia, where you are totally paralyzed and they have to breathe for you and that the only way to wake you up would be to undo the anesthesia. I was told that I would feel nothing, and be groggy enough that I'd probably nap through it, but - and I'm sure this is the major difference - I would breathe on my own and not be intubated.

    19. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Thiez · · Score: 1

      Because it barely hurts, it's an interesting experience, and it only takes a few minutes (YMMV, but I'm sure they can give you a good estimate before they begin)? Because it's cheaper?

    20. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And then there are people like me with other complications who have a 50%+ chance of dying under general anesthesia.

    21. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      when the patient faces significant risk from anesthesia.

    22. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I would want to be awake honestly; the anesthesia disturbs me more than the thought of being sliced open and possibly killed.

      You'd want to be awake while someone slices open your chest and cracks your ribs apart?

      You're either really brave, or a liar. ;-)

      I think my squealing would be rather distracting to the medical staff. :-P

      Cheers

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    23. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You wouldn't happen to have a head frozen in your fridge by any chance?

    24. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by calmofthestorm · · Score: 1

      Well I'm assuming powerful painkillers here, and a screen so I don't have to see it. But honestly yes.

      Again, would I like to be cut open? No. But given it must happen, I'd rather be around for it.

      --
      93rd rule of Slashdot: No matter how obvious my sarcasm is, my comment will be taken seriously by someone.
    25. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by pz · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's likely because there are greater risks involved in general anesthetic. Where possible, it's seen as safer for the patient to use only locals.

      And the patient is far from normally conscious under procedures like this. They are sedated, whereby it's generally meant the patient is socked to the gills with drugs like benzodiazepines.

      As a gross generalization, I find that the medical profession (and I'm on the fringes of it) tends to overmedicate when it comes to sedation. As one example, my father was going to have a small bone spur removed from a toe. Yes, that can be painful, but a good circumdigit block with lidocaine will fix that. But he was supposed to be sedated for the procedure sufficiently that he would not be able to drive himself home. He called me to arrange for a ride before the fact, more than a little annoyed that a 10 minute procedure would entail such an ordeal, and I replied, "well, just refuse the sedative." He did, and was fine.

      Now fixing a toe is very different from open heart surgery. The so-called awake patient during open heart surgery likely will be only slightly topside of conscious. However, there's a big difference between that and the deep general anesthesia that would be required without local anesthetics to block the pain. One of the big reasons for using less anesthesia is basic danger, as other posters have commented. But as we learn more about general anesthesia, and specifically in relation to open heart surgery, there's a significant toll it seems to take on the mind. It's considered a dirty little secret that patients are waking up after major surgery a little dumber than they were before. And, by "dirty little secret," I mean, it's an area ripe for significant research into the improvement of health care. In any case, combining a good epidural block with sedation to achieve the same surgical plane (that's the term used to describe depth of anesthesia) as previously achieved with general anesthesia is going to be a good step forward.

      --

      Put my fist through my alarm clock with its ding-dong death inside my ear. - The Blackjacks.
    26. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by tugboat0902 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I cannot imagine anything more dangerous than a 'neck down' regional anesthetic. Now, IAAA (I am an anesthesiologist) and from my experience, the risk of a general anesthetic for open heart surgery would be far less than the risk of this. In order to be high enough, the block would have to deprive the patient of one remarkably important activity involved in being awake, the ability to breathe. Additionally, if a selective block could be done that would permit enough muscle strength to breathe, there are serious problems in trying to breathe with an open chest. Without a sealed cavity, the lungs simply collapse. If the surgeon could stay extra-pleural, and you had a remarkably healthy and motivated patient it possibly could be done, I just cannot imagine why. Maybe this was all explained in TFA, but this is slashdot after all........

    27. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Yup, my friend had a stent placed in a carotid artery while awake for precisely this reason. They apparently like to assess your mental state while it is going on to detect strokes immediately.

      They do tend to dope you up quite a bit though, mainly to avoid anxiety and they don't want you squirming while they put a 2mm piece of tubing in a largely-clogged artery servicing your brain via a catheter that extends from your leg to your neck...

    28. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by thetoadwarrior · · Score: 1

      That may be true but, while you may not feel pain with a locale, you're aware something is going on and I don't think I want to know my chest is being cracked open. Even if I can't see it, my mind would be thinking of all sorts of shit and I just can't see myself being that relaxed and I can't see how that's good for a heart operation.

    29. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by EnsilZah · · Score: 0, Redundant

      Heh, my brain parsed that as "Where possible, it's seen as safer for the patient to use only lolcats".

    30. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Once you have sedated a patient, you cannot let them drive for 24 hours. Regardless of the quantity used, it's a legal thing.

      And the reason that "oversedation" occurs is simple - most people request it. I've had (nominally) adult patients who were upset that they were going to have to be conscious when their IV was placed.

    31. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by blincoln · · Score: 1

      I've been given the option to be awake for several procedures, and I always say yes, but then they always change their minds at the last minute and knock me out.

      Are you sure they actually put you under? For many procedures, instead of full general anaesthesia, the patient will be administered a sedative (hypnotic?) that keeps them awake, but without any memory of the procedure. I've had that done a couple of times, and from my perspective it was just like general anaesthetic (a discontinuity of consciousness, after which I felt like I had just woken up), but from the perspective of the doctors I had been conscious the whole time.

      --
      "...always new atoms but always doing the same dance, remembering what the dance was yesterday." -Richard Feynman
    32. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by digitalunity · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I had a wisdom tooth pulled. The anesthetic shots(all 6 of them) were terribly painful, extracting just a couple of precious tears from my eyes.

      About 15 minutes later, I couldn't feel the right lower half of my face and talking to the incredibly attractive assistant was becoming amusing. Oral surgeon walks in, sticks a prybar looking thing between a couple teeth, yanks it a couple times, puts funny looking pliars in my mouth and picks up my tooth. Good fucking god it's amazing how long the roots are for wisdom teeth.

      All in all, the worst part of the procedure was the shots, and the inability to form words using the mass of meat I once called a tongue. Luckily the entire experience, including anesthetic was over in a few hours and was quite tolerable.

      --
      You can't legislate goodness. Let each to his own destiny, by will of his freely made choices.
    33. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by demonlapin · · Score: 4, Informative

      I think if you put it in at, say, T6, and really, really carefully dosed your local, you could make it work - produce your block from C8 to T10/12. But I share your concerns about staying extrapleural, and even then the loss of intercostals, etc., would kill their tidal volumes. And the guy in the article summary is really young - maybe a straightforward valve in an otherwise ASA I? I emailed the Wired UK editors, asking for a contact point at the hospital so I can see this for myself. Maybe I can take it to our CT surgeons when I'm done... :)

    34. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Trifthen · · Score: 1

      As a recipient of an open-heart surgery, the only thing I have to say about being awake during such a procedure is:

      Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

      Why would that ever even cross somebody's mind?!

      --
      Read: Rabbit Rue - Free serial nove
    35. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. I know anesthesia carries a big risk with it but...yea...thats a risk I am so unbelievably willing to take in this case.

    36. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by batquux · · Score: 1

      It's ok, you just need to stand up and walk outside. Grab a bite to eat. Take the rest of the day easy.

    37. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had relatively minor surgery (nasal + sinus), and they wouldn't think of local. I don't think epidural is an option for anything that gets anywhere near the brain and eyes. Anyhow, to your point, I'd think that general anesthesia is a big hammer, and if epidural or local is an option, it should be used, at the risk of having to use sedatives for the squeamish.

      And it isn't just because you might come out dumber (take me, for instance), but even the minor effects are not so pleasant. How you like to feel full and ready-to-go, but just can't actually relieve yourself (#1 & #2)?

    38. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by CmdrPorno · · Score: 1

      "I've had (nominally) adult patients who were upset that they were going to have to be conscious when their IV was placed."

      I would be one of those patients. I really hate needles and tend to get nervous to the point of having panic attacks. When I had my wisdom teeth removed (under general anesthesia), the oral surgeon prescribed me an EMLA patch to apply to my arm so that I wouldn't feel the general anesthetic IV go in my arm.

      --
      Sent from my iPhone
    39. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by mariox19 · · Score: 3, Funny

      The two of you are crowding out the kids posting from their mom's basement. Please, get off the Internet.

      --

      quiquid id est, timeo puellas et oscula dantes.

    40. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by tugboat0902 · · Score: 3, Informative

      I haven't done a CT case for 10 years but who knows. I have done a cholecystectomy under epidural before, I would not imagine this technique is less expensive but maybe. I saw video in residency of a Chinese woman having a massive tumor removed from her chest under acupuncture and hypnosis. I guess anything is possible.

    41. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by csartanis · · Score: 1

      It just sucks for them a little bit!

    42. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      Are you sure they actually put you under?

      Well that's what the anesthetist told me they were doing in each of these cases, so I'm guessing yeah.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    43. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by toadlife · · Score: 2, Funny

      Now, IAAA (I am an anesthesiologist) and...

      Oh come on now. We all knew what you meant by IAAA. No need to talk down to us.

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    44. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by tonycheese · · Score: 0, Troll

      Who modded this informative lol? I didn't learn a thing from this, missed about half the words in there..

    45. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Tiger4 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yep, I noticed the "dirty little secret" with my father after a heart bypass. He was a retired mathematician, learned in the old days with slide rules. He could do sums in his head faster than most people with a calculator. After the surgery, not so much. It took weeks and months before he got close to being as sharp as before. He's still very good, but not at the top pitch he was before the surgery.

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    46. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      You would have drugs to make sure you don't mind the whole thing, or twitch around.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    47. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also keep in mind that, while not for open heart surgery, for many operations the anesthesia is the riskiest part of the procedure; the brain isn't built to be turned on and off at will.

      Mine is

    48. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even better.

      Surgeon: Hey, buddy, there's a minor prob with the heart monitor. It needs the three finger salute. We're a bit busy. Can you do it for us?
      Patient: WTF!?

    49. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by fbjon · · Score: 1

      That squeamishness might be because you associate the blood and gore with death, which is a bit backwards. Watch some real surgery videos on the net, and then think of it as watching life being put into you.

      --
      True confidence comes not from realising you are as good as your peers, but that your peers are as bad as you are.
    50. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by PylonHead · · Score: 1

      I only hope you don't use your nickname on the job.

      I'd be a little worried if I was strapped down to an operating table and heard, "The patient is prepped for surgery... bring in the Demon Rabbit."

      --
      # (/.);;
      - : float -> float -> float =
    51. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by mqduck · · Score: 1

      When I was a kid, though I certainly disliked having blood drawn, I would always stare intently at the needle and tube and all that. Now that I'm an adult, I have to look away and close my eyes and think about kitties and butterflies.

      No idea why.

      --
      Property is theft.
    52. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am playing with a ball.

    53. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by benthurston27 · · Score: 1

      The only thing better than watching doctors operate on your own heart live would be watching them do it while on acid. There's a chance someone's mind might not survive though.

    54. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's what ECMO is for

    55. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your problem, not the mods. Go read a book and learn something.

    56. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by Ihmhi · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's necessarily the fault of the doctors in this case. Can you imagine yourself saying, "Oh hey, I'd love to be conscious while you slice me open and dig around in my body!"?

      --
      Random Thoughts From A Diseased Mind (Not For Dummies)
    57. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by epp_b · · Score: 1

      It's likely because there are greater risks involved in general anesthetic.

      That's a good point. I underwent three surgeries in the course of one year and was under general anesthesia for each one. It wreaked havoc with my memory and mental capacity for at least a year afterward.

    58. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by ComputerGeek01 · · Score: 1

      ... But I share your concerns about staying extrapleural, and even then the loss of intercostals, etc...

      For those of us who haven't had medical training beyond advanced first aid; why wouldn't a automatic ventalator subsitute for the patiants own ability to breath? Doesn't current practice call for the use of one anyway? I would think at the least you guys would like this idea as an alternative for those patiants who need to under go emergency surgery soon after having had an operation. Anesthesia being one contributing factor to why you can't just jump back on the operating table too soon after being cut open.

    59. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by demonlapin · · Score: 1
      Because in this technique, you don't make the person unconscious and you don't put a tube down their throat. Awake patients won't tolerate that. And if you're going to have to make them unconscious anyway, why do the epidural? It's not a risk-free process, considering that this person is going to be completely anticoagulated during surgery - that significantly increases the risk of a hematoma forming in the epidural space and compressing (and killing) the spinal cord. (Bleeding risk is why it's put in the day before - so that a clot can form.)

      Anesthesia being one contributing factor to why you can't just jump back on the operating table too soon after being cut open.

      I'm not sure what you mean by this. If someone needs to go back for more surgery, they go back for more surgery. Sometimes people get three procedures in a day. We don't do elective procedures that fast, in order to give the body time to heal. Previous anesthetics really don't play into it.

    60. Re:Would you like to be awake for this procedure? by tonycheese · · Score: 1

      This is from a few days ago, but when you're discussing a technical issue that clearly 99.9% of the audience has no knowledge of, there's a difference between talking as if to a fellow surgeon and talking in a way that most people could understand. It isn't a person's job to learn everything in the world, so for such a specialized topic, telling me to go "read a book and learn something" because his discussion was overly technical is missing the point.

  2. Where's the torrent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    subject says it all

  3. Hi doctor nick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    HI doctor nick

    1. Re:Hi doctor nick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Hi everybody!

    2. Re:Hi doctor nick by jhoegl · · Score: 1

      "What the hell is that?" - Dr. Nick

      I was looking on Youtube for this clip, but none exists of one of the funniest moments of the Simpsons.

  4. What's the odds... by edittard · · Score: 1

    The Chinese have already pirated it?

    --
    At the bottom of the /. main page it says 'Yesterday's News'. Well they got that right.
    1. Re:What's the odds... by deglr6328 · · Score: 1

      The odds are 100%, as this has always been the ACTUAL method used by woo-woo, acupuncture, "complementary alternative" medicine peddlers who to this day are still selling the laughable fraud of "acupuncture-only anesthesia" surgery.

      --
      - "Hear that?! The percolations are imminent! Cease your ingress!"
  5. They do this for other things too by Suki+I · · Score: 1

    My friend had a Cardiac Cath examination and got to watch the whole thing on the same monitors that the cardiologists were working from. His heart was healthy and they even sent him the video on a CD!

    --
    Home of The Suki Series
    1. Re:They do this for other things too by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      My friend had a Cardiac Cath examination and got to watch the whole thing on the same monitors that the cardiologists were working from.

      Oh hell yeah. That's what I'm talking about.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
  6. Bad Idea! by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

    Have you never heard of Job Security through Obscurity?

    If me and my roomates can learn to preform open heart surgery on each other - why on Earth will we need to go to a surgeon!!!

    (This is a pre-emptive woosh for those of you who are about to point out the obvious)

    1. Re:Bad Idea! by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Funny

      If me and my roomates can learn to preform open heart surgery on each other - why on Earth will we need to go to a surgeon!!!

      Oh, I can foresee a whole new category of Darwin awards being handed out for that one. :-P

      Cheers

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Bad Idea! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 4, Funny

      If me and my roomates can learn to preform open heart surgery on each other - why on Earth will we need to go to a surgeon!!!

      Unions? ~

    3. Re:Bad Idea! by Chris+Burke · · Score: 1

      I'd be all for it as long as all amateur surgeries were required to be filmed and posted on youtube.

      --

      The enemies of Democracy are
    4. Re:Bad Idea! by pluther · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, dude!

      Why wouldn't you??

      --
      If the masses can keep you down, you're not the Ubermensch.
  7. Beep, Beep, Beeeeeeee by gimmebeer · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Uh hey Doc, what's that sound mean? Am I gonna.....uuurgggh.

  8. Absolutely by Theaetetus · · Score: 2, Informative

    Doctor: Would you like to be awake for this procedure?

    Patient: WTF???

    Doctor: We'll put up a screen so you can watch Spongebob and give you a bunch of morphine and a spinal epidural so you can't feel shiat, but if we put you completely under, your blood pressure may drop due to different autonomous reactions, and since we're doing heart surgery, that could be bad... So this improves the chances that you're awake after the operation, rather than on a slab in the morgue. Got it?

    1. Re:Absolutely by hardburn · · Score: 5, Funny

      I bet Spongebob is awesome on morphine.

      --
      Not a typewriter
    2. Re:Absolutely by sznupi · · Score: 1

      Morphine might work, I guess; nothing less. Otherwise I suspect the trauma of fully knowing what is happening, feeling with the part of the body that can feel anything the mere mechanical stresses, movements from opening your ribcage/etc., might be not helpful too.

      --
      One that hath name thou can not otter
    3. Re:Absolutely by insufflate10mg · · Score: 2, Funny

      It's the best after insufflating approximately ten milligrams.

    4. Re:Absolutely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      It's a brilliant cartoon regardless, especially seasons 1 & 2 where Stephen Hillenburg was writing the episodes.

    5. Re:Absolutely by demonlapin · · Score: 2, Funny

      That's a pretty small dose.

    6. Re:Absolutely by adamstew · · Score: 2, Funny

      A sponge is pretty small.

    7. Re:Absolutely by bibliophage · · Score: 1

      A lot of the sedatives they give you often cause partial amnesia as well. My last conscious procedure was a flexible sigmoidoscopy. I asked them if I could watch the monitor as they worked, and I know I did, but damned if I can remember any of it. So they sent me home with snapshots.

      --
      There are four boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  9. Prior Art by ATestR · · Score: 1

    Didn't the Mayan culture practice open heart surgery on their sacrifi^H^H^H^H^H^Hubjects while they were still conscious?

    --
    âoeAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
    1. Re:Prior Art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Pretty sure the guy from Indiana Jones and the temple of Doom too.

    2. Re:Prior Art by Monkeedude1212 · · Score: 1

      Ha, hahaha, ha, if you only knew what their practices were...

      They used to take the poisonous tips of stingrays and jam it into their own reproductive organs.

      I'd rather die by half-open-heart-surgery.

    3. Re:Prior Art by shawb · · Score: 1

      To be honest, they did get get them jacked up on coca leaves first... does dull the pain a bit.

      --
      I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
  10. Oh HELL no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once had to have a sigmoidoscopy done. There was a monitor right there and I could watch them playing cave adventurer inside my bowels. That was bad enough, no way in hell I want to be awake while they crack my chest open and screw around with my heart!

  11. Link by zlogic · · Score: 1

    Doesn anyone have the torrent link to this tutorial? :-)

  12. No. And I liked it that way. by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 3, Informative

    I had open-heart surgery. General & deep anesthesia is a wonderful thing. "Lie here ... ok ... we're going to give you a little something now to make you comfortable ..." And then I woke up a few hours later. No sense of time passing, just one moment in the OR and then the next moment I'm in the recovery room.

    Now, given what happened in the recovery room, wouldn't want to extrapolate back to the idea of being awake for the procedure.
    "Waking up" consisted of returning consciousness, but with no vision or hearing, and the totality of my existence being devoted to getting the breathing tube out, engaging enough self-control to know it's supposed to be there and to not panic (!!!!!), and discover that my hands were restrained to prevent acting on exactly that reaction. Then I was aware that something horrible had been done to my chest. And then ... well, it gets kinda fuzzy and unpleasant from there.

    Now, if awake thru the whole procedure, that would mean not only being aware of the chit-chat ("scalpel ... clamp ... ") and other mundane activity, but the process of ramming that d@mn pipe down my throat, the sensation (however muted) of having my rib cage sawed up and pried open with a car jack, buckets of ice cubes being dumped into the gaping chest cavity, heart being stopped and partially disconnected, and generally knowing that a whole lotta things are being done to ME that are not naturally part of human existence - apart from, well, being dead (which, arguably, I was).

    My wife didn't take it well in the waiting room when told "your husband is doing fine ... they just stopped his heart." Somehow I don't think I'd like being awake for observing it first-hand. And I don't think the doctors would be keen on having to watch their language/behavior knowing that the patient is watching & listening; I want them focused on the job, not on how I'll respond to their commentary.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:No. And I liked it that way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glad you got through it all OK... but I think you had the tube because of the anesthesia ... if you look at the article, the patient in this case has no breathing tube.

    2. Re:No. And I liked it that way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is of course the alternative, when you aren't being given enough anesthesia and your are conscious and can 'feel' whats going on, but can't inform anyone that you are cause of the immobilization.

      Had to go under for doc's to re-break my arm, remember counting down, feeling something funny happen in my arm, then waking up all groggy.

      Granted mine is not even the same ball park as open heart surgery, but I'll take fully numb and awake, over immobilized and funny feelings any day of the week. That and surgery doesn't bother me. Some of the smells might, but the visual doesn't.

      Point is, there's no guarantee you will be fully out when under anesthesia. And you can't really inform them of it, now can you.

    3. Re:No. And I liked it that way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, since you remain conscious (in the sense of non-comatose, though typically dozing or sleeping), they don't bloody NEED to "ram that d@mn pipe down your throat", and you don't regain consciousness at the end, you just wake up. Watching it happen might be unpleasant if you remained fully awake, but given how doped up you are, you won't be.

    4. Re:No. And I liked it that way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Guessing you wouldn't have to have the tube in your throat, but I could be wrong.

    5. Re:No. And I liked it that way. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well you are alive...but did you have the PumpHead caused by the Heart Lung Machine...what they used to call Cardiac Depression to keep from getting sued?
      The Heart Lung Machine spits out trash made from your blood....emboli...tiny blood clots...and non regulated oxygen ...I know, I have been there, done that!!!!!!

  13. about this tutorial ... by buchner.johannes · · Score: 1

    is it DIY?

    --
    NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
  14. Conscious card cath? Now THAT was interesting! by dazedNconfuzed · · Score: 1

    Being awake for a cardiac catheterization is a different story. Since there are no apparent after-effects, and no slicing-and-dicing of organs, it really was fascinating to watch a live x-ray of my heart in action while feeling only a faint strange tickling in my chest. Nothing showed up wrong save the expected valve regurgitation.

    Never dawned on me to ask for a copy of the video ... I'll have to ask about it.

    --
    Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
    1. Re:Conscious card cath? Now THAT was interesting! by Suki+I · · Score: 1

      He got his done at Walter Reed (he did mention that it was an excellent facility, where he was, contrary to the news reports about other parts of the campus)

      --
      Home of The Suki Series
    2. Re:Conscious card cath? Now THAT was interesting! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Video of my vitrectomy and cataract surgery was pretty sweet. I was awake for it, but the view is better from above than below.

  15. You aren't exactly wide awake... by sirwired · · Score: 4, Informative

    There are many different surgeries done now where the patient is not rendered unconscious. Advances in technique and in local anesthetics have made the precision nerve blocks required possible. However, make no mistake, you aren't wide awake and cracking jokes while the surgeon does his thing; you are doped to the gills with tranquilizers. It would be very bad if you panicked or tried to move around during the surgery. Keeping you awake is done because it is easier to keep you from not dying when they aren't trying to put you to sleep, shut down sensation of pain, and cut your memory. They don't do it because it's really cool, or to educate the patient.

    SirWired

    1. Re:You aren't exactly wide awake... by Hurricane78 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      From what a nurse told me, it’s just that the narcotics have a very small area between “doesn’t do anything” and “kills you instantly”. So it’s very hard to get it right.
      Which is why still so many people die in the process!
      Especially older people often simply go crazy from it. And die more often too.

      She told me, from her experience, that whenever you can, avoid full narcosis at any cost! It’s very far from the convenient trick to get around experiencing it. The one deciding on the dose sweats blood and tears because every time, he makes a decision that can kill you.

      --
      Any sufficiently advanced intelligence is indistinguishable from stupidity.
    2. Re:You aren't exactly wide awake... by EatHam · · Score: 1

      Keeping you awake is done because it is easier to keep you from not dying when they aren't trying to put you to sleep

      What if I don't want to be kept from not dying?

    3. Re:You aren't exactly wide awake... by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Ya I also don't want to hear the doctors talking about the game last night while cutting on me...

    4. Re:You aren't exactly wide awake... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then you're wasting the surgeon's valuable time when you could be easily be finding a large bridge instead.

    5. Re:You aren't exactly wide awake... by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 3, Funny

      You have a duty to your fellow man to continue paying taxes.

    6. Re:You aren't exactly wide awake... by demonlapin · · Score: 5, Informative
      This is not exactly true. There are a lot of medications used in anesthesia, but the short list includes:
      • General anesthetics. Come in IV (propofol, thiopental) and gas (there are more modern ones, but ether and chloroform are the ones people know) forms. Produce global depression of nerve function so that unconsciousness results.
      • Opioids. Morphine, fentanyl, etc. Produce relief of pain without necessarily depressing consciousness. Dangerous in overdoses because they depress the respiratory drive - people quit breathing and die. This is not usually a problem during general anesthesia because there's a tube in your throat that's hooked up to a ventilator - we breathe for you.
      • Paralytics. Particularly important at two points: at the beginning, they make putting that tube down easier (you don't fight), and during abdominal or orthopedic surgery, they relax the muscles so that the surgeon can work.
      • Anxiolytics. These are IV versions of Valium or Xanax, used to calm people down and make them forget what's happening.

      Now, there is a problem with postoperative cognitive dysfunction in the elderly, one that is currently a very hot topic of research, but the elderly don't have a lot of plastic surgery - if they're in for surgery, they usually need it to continue living.

      Finally, very few people die - the risk is somewhere less than 1 in 150k for elective surgery, with risks rising for those who are having risky surgeries or who are very ill to start with. Anesthesiologists made a conscious decision in the early 1980s to reduce the risks of anesthesia, and created the Anesthesia Patient Safety Foundation to review all closed claims - that's lawsuits, settled in or out of court - and to look for common factors. We have been enormously successful at this task. Drugs have been pulled off the market because the APSF identified them in series of deaths. Safety equipment has been mandated - for example, the size of the connectors for breathing masks, breathing tubes, and ventilators is specified so that all of it interoperates, regardless of manufacturer.

      If you prefer to be unconscious for surgery, it can usually be done safely. Of course, if you want to be awake, that can usually be done safely as well. Ask your anesthesiologist.

    7. Re:You aren't exactly wide awake... by Rick17JJ · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I once had a colonoscopy where I was awake for most of the procedure. I was told that I might be awake in sort of a twilight sleep, but that I would not remember anything afterwards. However, I actually did remember everything afterwards.

      The procedure started a small camera being shoved up my rear end. In front of me, I could see a color television screen showing the constantly the changing view of the inside of my colon. I was surprised at how spotlessly clean it was (except for occasional puddles of dirty water). I jokingly asked if I could get a VHS tape to show to other people. They said that the best that they could do was give me a printout with color photos.

      After a while the doctor and the anesthesiologist (or someone) started asking each other why they were not there yet. As time went on they sounded increasingly puzzled and concerned that they had not yet reached where they were going. They would say things like, we should have been there long ago. They briefly considered the possibility of it having somehow having turned around and started going back the other way.

      They were having increasing difficulty getting the cable with the camera to go much further and were discussing the possibility of having to give up. But then, the entrance to my appendix came into view in the distance as well as two polyps also visible up ahead. But, for a while they were not able to get the cable to move any further.

      I asked what they would do if they could not reach the polyp. I was told that they would fire a harpoon and reel it in. But, then a moment later, I realized that he was kidding.

      I then mentioned, that I could feel two places in my abdomen were it felt like the cable was binding up with the most pressure. The anesthesiologist (or the doctor) than pushed firmly on certain portions of my abdomen which finally brought the camera up to the two polyps. I remember them then taking a sample from the first polyp, and then I fell asleep after that.

      Afterwards, they gave me a printout with several high resolution color photos, showing the inside of my colon (sorry about not having a link). Later on, I was eventually told that both polyps had been removed and that one of them would have probably eventually turned into cancer.

      When I had a follow-up colonoscopy from another doctor a couple of years later, I was out the entire time. But, before the procedure, I warned the doctor that she should use the longest cable that she had.

  16. Advantage? Yes. by gbutler69 · · Score: 2, Informative

    Full (unconscious) anesthesia is dangerous. That's why a special doctor (anesthesiologist) is required to be present to monitor during the entire surgery. Being awake is safer.

    --
    Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
    1. Re:Advantage? Yes. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      It's safer unless you are me and imagine all kinds of strange things going on... and manage to pass yourself out.

      I have a very low tolerance for blood, stories about it, and other detailed info on accidents, etc. I blacked out in a college speech class a few years back because someone explained his motorcycle accident. I once volunteered for a blood drive and couldn't even carry the blood pouch back to the receiving table without having to sit down in the middle of the room and handing it off to someone else.

      It's making me light headed right now just typing that out.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    2. Re:Advantage? Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Too bad there's no "-1 Pansy" mod.

    3. Re:Advantage? Yes. by Arthur+Grumbine · · Score: 4, Funny

      Do you enjoy sunbathing? If so, have you ever considered the possibility that you're a reverse vampire?

      --
      Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure everything I just said is completely wrong.
    4. Re:Advantage? Yes. by Thiez · · Score: 1

      I bet you'd be useless in a knife-fight :D

      How do you feel about gore in video games (such as F.E.A.R. and Prey)?

    5. Re:Advantage? Yes. by ckaminski · · Score: 1

      It would work better if you used tinyurl. Lol.

    6. Re:Advantage? Yes. by MindlessAutomata · · Score: 4, Funny

      You'd think a reverse vampire would put blood into people, though.

    7. Re:Advantage? Yes. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I bet you'd be useless in a knife-fight :D

      As would likely 95% + of the populace I'm betting.

      Cheers

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    8. Re:Advantage? Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you pass out on your own, then you don't need the anesthetic, right?

    9. Re:Advantage? Yes. by VorpalRodent · · Score: 1

      That all depends...does this knife fight involve dancing, or just cutting? I can't carry a tune, but as long as I'm in the background, I'm decent at snapping to the rhythm.

      --
      Take it to the limit, everybody to the limit, come on, everybody fhqwhgads.
    10. Re:Advantage? Yes. by Thiez · · Score: 1

      > As would likely 95% + of the populace I'm betting.

      What I meant was, even if OP wins, he still loses. It was not really intended to be interesting, insightful, or informative, nor did I intend for it to become the subject of a discussion (it was merely an observation I considered to be 'funny'). I am however genuinely interested in his (or others who have a similar 'blood-phobia' thing) answer to the gore-question.

      Now that we've ventured this far into offtopicness, what's up with the 'Cheers' thing?

    11. Re:Advantage? Yes. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would other fluids work?

    12. Re:Advantage? Yes. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      Video game gore doesn't bother me. I normally turn it on or enable it if it's off. I can't watch ER type shows, but I loved watching House in which cases I would just look away if the scene was too long. It usually takes me a while to get to the point of blacking out. For instance, the blood drive I was fine for a about a half hour and when they put the blood packet in the plastic container I was carrying I could feel the warmth (and for some reason I remember a distinct smell) and that was enough to trigger it. The speech I blacked out in was fairly descriptive and at about the 10 minute mark I was done.

      I have gone hunting, etc. and animal blood has no real effect on me. It just seems to be places where I can put myself in place of the person or imagine the event happening to me... that's when I lose it. It has to be "real enough" to trigger a response. I'm sorry I can't be more descriptive than that. I just know when I feel light headed and try to put my mind on something else.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    13. Re:Advantage? Yes. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      I'm a geek. I am(/used to be) as pale as a ghost! That's why I bought a convertible: to get more sun driving home and to work. ;)

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    14. Re:Advantage? Yes. by nschubach · · Score: 1

      That's what I told the Dentist when I got my wisdom teeth removed. "If you don't put me under, I will by myself." He decided that a controlled manner would be best.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    15. Re:Advantage? Yes. by mqduck · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well he did say he volunteered at a blood drive. Doesn't that count?

      --
      Property is theft.
    16. Re:Advantage? Yes. by Thiez · · Score: 1

      Thanks for clarifying.

    17. Re:Advantage? Yes. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Now that we've ventured this far into offtopicness, what's up with the 'Cheers' thing?

      *laugh* Don't know, it's been my standard sign-off on electronic forums for almost a decade. Just a fairly standard salutation, I guess.

      A combination of "so long" and "have a nice day", and it keeps the tone polite, which on Slashdot is often lacking. :-P

      Cheers

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  17. xkcd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Can't believe it hasn't been mentioned:

    http://www.xkcd.com/218/

  18. Not for the weak of heart by Rikiji7 · · Score: 3, Funny

    It's recursive

    --
    slashwhat?
  19. Know-it-alls! by LunarEffect · · Score: 1

    Imagine having one of those patients who think they know everything better.

    "Don't saw my rib bones like that! I'm sure they didn't do it like that on the Discovery Channel! Be careful where you poke that thing! You almost punctured my pancreas!"

  20. The incision should be made below the blockage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Narrator: [on TV] ...and then, you make the incision below the collarbone.
                    [splurt]
    Dr. Nick: Oh, no. Blood!
                    [screen fritzes into a cheezy talk show]
    Dr. Nick: Oh, no, someone taped over the end of this!

  21. That is just AWESOME by amir4000 · · Score: 1

    That is awesome!! I'm gonna add this DVD to my collection of C#, and Visual Studio tutorial DVDs... Does anyone have a Torrent link to a brain surgery tutorial?? One of my buddies needs his brain rewired and I wanna see if I can give him hand with it!

  22. Can't wait... by dos4who · · Score: 1

    ..for this to show up on ThePirateBay :)

    --
    "Yes, I have a Disaster Recovery Plan. It's called my Resume"
  23. Does DVD include different Camera Angles? by Tekfactory · · Score: 1

    Subject says it all, DVD has had this feature for a long time, yet there aren't really a lot of people using it.

    So what if I had these extra angles? I think the whole thing is probably one giant director's commentary so that is a given.

    Deleted scenes? probably not

    Alternate Endings? stay with me here, I don't necessarily mean the patient dies. But since they have 10 years of experience with this procedure, what are some of the complications they've seen, what are some things to avoid.

    And yes, when can I add it to my Netflix queue?

    1. Re:Does DVD include different Camera Angles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. And 5.1 DTS.
      I can't wait for the sequel and prequels. Gawd, is there a trailer somewhere!? I'd love to see a mashup as an action flick HAHAHA

    2. Re:Does DVD include different Camera Angles? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      No, this is not Directors Cut, they decided it would be better to let the surgeons do the cutting.

    3. Re:Does DVD include different Camera Angles? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Yup. Multiple angles are real. But they share the 9.8Mbps data stream. So in order to add a second angle, it lowers the quality of the primary angle. And with MPEG-2, you need all the bandwidth you can get. That's why Hollywood isn't doing it.

  24. Open Heart Surgery for Dummies by clone53421 · · Score: 1

    When does the book come out?

    --
    Alexander Peter Kristopeit bought his basement from his mommy for one dollar.
  25. Interesting. by demonlapin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This would be utterly fascinating to watch. I would be interested to see how he managed the patient's temperature. In patients undergoing general anesthesia for this procedure, the body is generally cooled in order to reduce the risk of tissues dying due to low blood flow, but that's not as easy an option in this case - the patients can still move their legs, for example, and shivering would be A Bad Thing, as well as subjectively unpleasant.

    There's also the small matter of maintaining the integrity of the pleural space - if you expose lungs, the patient can no longer breathe. It's impressive that they've made it work.

  26. Old people by DarthVain · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The reason why this is big news is that some people (mostly old people) who get knocked out, never wake up again, and it has little to do with the surgery itself but with the drug induced unconsciousness. Having a method or ability to do this without knocking someone completely out would reduce risk for those in the high risk to die while under. This is why you always have to sign a consent form when getting a general. I had some oral surgery a couple of years ago in my late 20's and I still had to sign a bunch of stuff that says I am aware of the risks and that I might die from being knocked out, and please do not have your relations sue us if that is the case. Now if your in your 80's and have the same procedure, it might be better to keep you awake during the procedure.

    (I was awake for the "tooth extraction" which translates to the most horrific medieval hammer and fscking chisel, and horrible horrible sounds and pressures you do not want to remember. So when it came time for the "tooth implant" I decided to get knocked the heck out. It cost me an extra 300$ bucks I think, but I was not going through that nightmare again. Not sure if it was as bad, but I wasn't taking any chances. If I had to do it again, I would have had them knocked me out for the "extraction" and would recommend anyone who has to get a tooth implant in this fashion do the same.)

    However when I read the title I envisioned the surgeon performing open heart surgery on himself while awake... now that would take some balls!

    1. Re:Old people by Cyberax · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "I was awake for the "tooth extraction" which translates to the most horrific medieval hammer and fscking chisel, and horrible horrible sounds and pressures you do not want to remember."

      Try tooth extraction without anesthesia someday. Now that's an experience (yes, I know it firsthand).

    2. Re:Old people by nsayer · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up! I'll second his story. When I was a teenager, I went to the dentist thinking I was just getting a cleaning, when he started extracting a wisdom tooth! Not only did I not know he was going to do it, but by the time he started and I figured out what was up, there was no turning back. I had them knock me out to get the other three. Never again!

    3. Re:Old people by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      Well there is extraction and extraction.

      Technically I could "extract" some teeth by punching someone in the mouth or a similar traumatic impact or accident.

      The best as I can describe it (and this one all of one tooth), was that the had me lie down, and froze the bajesus out of my face.

      They then put a cloth over my eyes (so as to not get tooth chunks in them? I suspect simply so I could not see and panic), but I could still see out at a hard angle looking straight down.

      The dentist kept saying "your going to feel a little pressure..." and I am not sure I would call it pressure, or little.

      They basically used a thing that looked like a wood chisel with a slimmer blade and all metal, and a freaking mallet.

      Occasionally the blade would get stuck in the gum/tooth or more likely the bone, and he would have to work it back and forth to free it so that he could attack it again.

      They had a nurse with suction, and a towel on my chest for stuff which got pretty bloody.

      After that they drilled a hole in my jaw, which aside from the vibration through my skull and the smell of burning me wasn't too bad. They they took a bone matrix or lattice and stuffed the hole with that to strengthen the jaw at that point. That also was not a big deal, mostly him shoving it in there with his fingers and applying a lot of pressure. They then stitched me up... which was awesome, because I knew they were done with me!

      Just thinking about it gives me the willies.

    4. Re:Old people by ParanoiaBOTS · · Score: 1

      "I was awake for the "tooth extraction" which translates to the most horrific medieval hammer and fscking chisel, and horrible horrible sounds and pressures you do not want to remember."

      Try tooth extraction without anesthesia someday. Now that's an experience (yes, I know it firsthand).

      I know what you mean, I will never, ever forget that god awful noise as they pry a tooth out of your head (it was akin to pulling a rusty nail out of a board)

    5. Re:Old people by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      I had a molar extraction without anesthesia when I was a kid. The doctor injected several doses of novocaine but without any effect.

      So the doctor had to extract tooth with me fully conscious and two nurses holding my hands :) It was not that bad, just about 10 seconds of blinding pain.

    6. Re:Old people by bigstrat2003 · · Score: 1

      I had both my lower wisdom teeth taken out with just a local anesthetic (since it was cheaper and I didn't need a ride afterwards). It really wasn't bad (except for when I had the second one done, they didn't give me enough anesthetic at first which hurt like a motherfucker). They took what sounded like a small rotary saw and used it to cut the tooth in half, and then pulled it out. It feels pretty damn weird to have someone tugging on your jaw that hard, simply because your brain is going "this should hurt", but it doesn't actually hurt. It wasn't really all that unpleasant, though.

      Now granted, the pain from the second time before they gave me enough anesthetic pretty much guaranteed that I'll get put under if my top wisdom teeth have to come out. A mistake like that probably won't get made again, but damn, it sure hurt bad enough to make even a small risk of that level of pain worth avoiding.

      --
      "16MB (fuck off, MiB fascists)" - The Mighty Buzzard
    7. Re:Old people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or call it saving the country from old people and their apple save for brains bullshit that plagues the country.

    8. Re:Old people by j_sp_r · · Score: 1

      Putting in implants is unpleasant (makes a lot of noise when they are splitting your jaw bone to make it wider) but not really painful (needed about 20 injections against pain). Rode back home on my bike after which the injections wore out. After that I wanted to die for about 2 days before the pain become a lot less.

    9. Re:Old people by DarthVain · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I would say if the Novocaine isn't working, to screw off.

      At least give me whatever drugs are in your desk, and the bottle of whiskey in your filing cabinet!

    10. Re:Old people by DarthVain · · Score: 1

      OK I didn't need to hear about the splitting of my jaw bone. I was blissfully unaware and asleep during that part.

      I do remember that I only had significant pain for a couple of days after, as opposed to the extraction where it hurt for like a whole week.

      Oh and to top it all off, the antibiotics that they gave me for the implants, caused me to get C Diff, which was like the worst 3-4 days of my life.

      C Diff is like a really bad flu, except you have live angry stinging scorpions in your gut, and they really hate you.

    11. Re:Old people by Doctor+Faustus · · Score: 1

      Sedation is a pretty decent middle ground, on price, risk and not noticing what they're doing.

      It's about $100, or a bit less, and generally something along the lines of taking one pill (nothing I was familiar with) the night before and then an Ambien an hour or so before the procedure. I like to combine it with music on headphones, and very little sleep; I had two root canals that way, and have almost no memory of them.

    12. Re:Old people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However when I read the title I envisioned the surgeon performing open heart surgery on himself while awake... now that would take some balls!

      I'd rather see him do it while asleep...

  27. And in worst case by DrYak · · Score: 1

    And in worst case, a patient who doesn't want to follow and pay attention to the whole procedure, can be given a mild sedative.

    The patient will be calmly dozing during the procedure, but it's still not a general anesthetic (= which is controlled coma), only a patient having a nap during a locals (= can be wakened up, or will wake up in case of something hapening).

    Commonly done in orthopaedic surgery (= epidural or nervous bloc + mild sedative).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  28. Wierded..No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After 10 years of me injecting me for allergies, I have no problem watching what a nurse or doctor does to my skin. Cutting out or burning a wart is easy to watch but the smell of burnt me is bad.

  29. The date of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This article was in the print form from Feb 09 and was recently made available online Dec 09. This has now been /. 1-8-10, is /. becoming slow with news articles?

    Quote from article:
    "Wide-awake heart surgery
    By Tom Cheshire|21 December 2009

    This article was taken from the February issue of Wired UK magazine. Be the first to read Wired's articles in print before they're posted online, and get your hands on loads of additional content by subscribing online"

    1. Re:The date of the article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seems I was wrong about the month the issue came out, it seems to be the Feb '10 issue.

  30. well by fireylord · · Score: 1

    not really, unless said patient has some kind of advanced central nervous system that puts a readout in his vision of whats going on for example Blood Pressure Heart Rate Time since last dump etc etc

  31. grey by tokul · · Score: 1

    Surgeon decided that learning from Grey's Anatomy is not good enough.

  32. I would HOPE the doctors would be conscious... by thedbp · · Score: 1

    I would HOPE the doctors would be conscious during this kind of surgery.

    Oh, wait, what?

    Nevermind.

  33. Somebody Somewhere, please torrent this.. by bratloaf · · Score: 1

    Someone someplace must have access to get a copy of this DVD and slap it out on BT for all to see. Sounds crazy, but it does make a lot of sense in the context of some of the risks of being fully out. I am one of the "strange" on here that prefer to NOT be put out, ever. I never have, and hope to never be. I worry about the risks, and honestly just don't want to be "unplugged" for fear that I won't "reboot" properly. I know, irrational... However, I have had dental surgery without being out, several minor but large skin operations, and will be having another soon on my eyelid. I don't intend to be put out for that either. Just Novocaine please.... I admit, if having open heart surgery, Id have to consider it. But as long as they looped me up good on some Xanax or similar, and gave me the epidural, I think I could handle it. Look at the picture on the Wired article, that guy is definitely looped...

  34. So, now by confused+one · · Score: 1

    you get to see all the blood and listen to the sound of suction, saw cutting through you ribs, the ribs cracking as they're spread, comments of the OR staff *oops*, the staple gun used to put it all back together... While they're working on YOU.

  35. Are you kidding? by Pictish+Prince · · Score: 1

    conscious open-heart surgery

    conscious open-heart surgery? Are you telling me they've been doing this operation in their sleep for 40 years? Oh, wait..

    --
    Only his tendency toward a dazed stupor prevented him from screaming aloud.
  36. I got this disk last week by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Best disk ever Video Professor!

  37. Here's the real tutorial. by Chas · · Score: 3, Funny

    1: Ignore the screaming patient on the table.
    2: Use leather restraints on the patient. The web ones are too easily snapped by someone in a full fight-or-flight frenzy.
    3: Avoid the use of the word "oops"
    4: Avoid the use of the phrase "uh oh"
    5: NEVER use "oh shit", "oh crap" or any other variants thereof.
    6: Have a mallet ready for "topical anesthesia" if necessary. If the need exists, apply to patient's forehead both vigorously and repeatedly.
    7: Use surgical drapes, most patients freak (hard!) if they can see their own inside pieces and parts.
    8: Avoid calling your surgical assistant "Igor", even if that is his name.
    9: Refrain from cackling maniacally.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  38. Yap... by thrill12 · · Score: 1

    ...before you know it you have 20 open-heart surgeons picketing outside your home: this patient performs his own open-heart surgery, boo!

    --
    Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
  39. My wife had an epidural during childbirth... by mbourgon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And it wasn't 100%. I think that either way, effective or not, you'd want to say "Ow! That hurts!"

    --
    "Sometimes a woman is a kind of religion, she can save your soul & set you free from all your sins" - Bad Examples
    1. Re:My wife had an epidural during childbirth... by barzok · · Score: 1

      They likely shut it off or turned it way down for the final stage of labor. That way she was able to feel a little of it, and it didn't slow things down.

  40. You Insensitive Clod by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am a blood donor, you insensitive clod!

  41. You Do Remember, Sort Of by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    No sense of time passing, just one moment in the OR and then the next moment I'm in the recovery room.

    That's only partially true. The conscious, 'higher' part of your mind does not remember or experience - the anaesthesia effectively turns it off, that's what they're designed to do.

    But other parts of your brain, somewhat lower in evolutionary stature, are going, "holy fucking shit, my chest just got ripped open!" and it has its own sort of memory that is formed, sometimes experiencing intense trauma for hours. I've watched open heart surgery from the balcony, it's brutal.

    Some people come out of it permanently altered, personality-wise. It's being likened to PTSD and it increases recovery times. Some people don't seem to have this effect, I don't think we yet know why.

    US Army medical is pioneering this field, and recommends soldiers getting significant surgery get both the spinal and general. From a utilitarian perspective they're saving costs and getting soldiers back in the field faster, but that's the funding case, it's good research with wide-ranging positive benefits. NPR did a good story about it a couple years back.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)