Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Pulls Office From Its Own Online Store
CWmike writes "Microsoft has pulled almost every version of Office from its own online store to comply with a court order requiring it to remove custom XML technology from its popular Word software that starts on Monday. As of mid-day, the only edition available from the Microsoft Store was Office Ultimate 2007, a $670 'full-version' suite. All other Windows editions, as well as Office 2008 for Mac, were accompanied by the message: 'This product is currently unavailable while we update versions on our site. We expect it to be available soon.' Microsoft confirmed that the disappearance of Office was related to the injunction that came out of a patent infringement case the company lost in 2009. 'We've taken steps to comply with the court's ruling and we're introducing the revised software into the US market," said Michael Croan, a senior marketing manager, in an e-mail. He also downplayed the move. 'This process will be imperceptible to the vast majority of customers, who will find both trial and purchase options readily available.'"
I'm always up for a good bashing, but eh what? It was already decided in court that MS was violating the patent (which imo is stupid, btw). They were required to stop selling Word, and now they comply. Whats the news here? That MS complied to laws and judge orders?
Also, how is that "downplaying the move"? They probably worked on non-infringing Word version for long time already and are replacing it soon. In fact;
Microsoft has posted updates for both Word 2003 and Word 2007 to its download site and told customers in accompanying support documents that those updates are mandatory "only if you have been instructed to do so in a separate communication from Microsoft." The company has also committed to revamping Word 2008 for Mac and Word 2004 for Mac, even though those versions were not named in the injunction.
In the meantime, Microsoft also told potential customers that they can download the free beta of Office 2010, the next-generation suite slated for a June release.
Perfect opportunity for Open Office to gain some ground. You and I may not know the people, but there will be someone out there who needs to download Office during the week for an assignment or work task, and will be unable to buy their legitimate version online. So the person goes to google and types in "office suite" and what comes up first? OO.org
I've had this problem for a long time:
$ bash microsoft
bash: microsoft: No such file or directory
$ bash office
bash: office: No such file or directory
$ bash word
bash: word: No such file or directory
From all system administrators, thank you Microsoft for the decision to coincide Patent Compliance Tuesday with Patch Tuesday.
Star Office is closer to MS Office than Open Office is. Open Office is almost like Wordpad with spreadsheets. I need my spell checker damnit.
What I want to know is what will i4i do with its 300 million from Microsoft.
And will Microsoft pay-up?
You'd think that Microsoft could manage to remove the XML extensions that the judge didn't like by now. Perhaps the regression testing for Windows 98 on a 286 slowed them down?
The determined Real Programmer can write Fortran programs in any language.
Aren't they supposed to use XML to be compliant and open? And what if they can say: 'Hey, we tried, but this one bad small company threatend de poor liddle MicroSoft with a patent lawsuit and now we have to take XML out, sooo sad!
The truth is, MS wants it's formats to stay proprietary and I figure they'd welcome any reason that holds to keep it that way. I wouldn't be suprised if this XML-patent thing was staged.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I am getting so sick of these companies misusing the hard work of others. Microsoft Office has been free for home-users since version 1, same goes for their OS, windows 1 to 7. All free to the average home user and then some business that never created a damn thing comes in, demands more cash than 99.9% of startups would make in total in 200 years (look it up... it's true :D ) and kills a great product while doing so. This is why open source and free software just doesn't work. The patentbitches wait silent for a couple of years and then they come... And they come hard.
Man, I sure hope that MS will do the right thing, and "forget" to inform Thepiratebay that they need to stop distributing MS Office.
... they should also have to deactivate every (legal) copy that's currently out in the wild. After all, the software industry has been telling us for years that we don't really get to buy software, just rent it. So surely it can't be legal for Microsoft to continue to rent out software that violates someone else's patent!
The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
Don't mess with a company whose name is eye for (an) eye .
MS complied with the EU ruling, and note... immediately took full vengeance on: the USERS. $670 for an Office Cocktail to burn down your desktop. Smallchange, maybe to those driving a Veyron. I think it is finally time for those users (and their bosses) to "move on" to Open Office, even on the MS platform, and ultimately migrate to Linux desktop.
How convenient that the $670 edition should be the one that remains available.
I can only think of three explanations for this:
1. MS are quite happy to put some of the revenue from Office to paying damages, provided the revenue is from the most expensive version.
2. They're holding back on making the cheaper versions compliant intentionally to see if only having the expensive version available dramatically affects sales.
3. They're not as well organised as I'd like to believe - packaging every different edition of Office is a major undertaking which requires a lot of work.
I am no MS fan boy but I think that this action by the patent parasites i4i is completely wrong. We all know that the US patent system needs to be reformed, especially in the area of software patents -- this is just another example of how it is broken.
Did you also think that food stores pay off the stealing users from their own pockets, and don't increase prices to get it back from users?
That is wrong. They have the trial version availble while the other versions are updated and re-released.
What, surely you don't think they would offer a trial version just to try to lock you into to their products?
even if it means spending more that the $200+M on lawyers
even if it means going to SCOTUS
even if it means getting a shell company in the Caymans to buy them out.
etc
etc
etc
You ackowledge your post is redunant. Good for you.
It did not need to be restated. If you wanted to simply voice your support to his thread, then you should have replied to his thread rather than starting a thread whose sole purpose was to agree with the previous thread.
Whats the news here? That MS complied to laws and judge orders?
Yes, that's exactly it.
And that's not meant to be a smartass comment about how often Microsoft does and doesn't do that.
All I'm trying to say is that this Microsoft/XML/Patent story is of interest to the slashdot crowd, and we would like to be informed about how the sequence of events unfold.
Getting confirmation that Microsoft complies with the law and court orders is an important event in this story---perhaps even the most crucial.
That's the reason it's on slashdot.
from online store and regular store is still same price?
Nhile
Your Honor, Microsoft will comply with the courts wishes, I give you my Word.... bundled with Excel and Powerpoint and....
Take Nobody's Word For It.
That is wrong. They have the trial version availble while the other versions are updated and re-released.
I'm guessing the trial version has no infringing features.
As for lock in via a trial version, is there seriously anyone left on the planet that does not know about OPENOFFICE.ORG ?
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
I wrote the above as a joke, but..
The type of people that would use the trial version of MS Office are probably not the type people that would have heard of openoffice (or even better AbiWord.)
I disagree. The kind of people who would use the trial version are the kind that don't have 600 bucks for the full package and no corporate backing. Those people are used to digging for bargains, and free is a good price.
AbiWord on the other hand is pretty lame compared to OpenOffic or StarOffice. I look at it every three or four years to see if it has improved, and it is a perennial disappointment.
Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
It appears there's a very twisted opportunity here: patent as many evil ideas as you can then wait for companies to pursue those strategies by patent trolling them. How about starting by patenting violations of net neutrality like "a system and method for filtering internet content to prevent civil unrest." Or protecting an emerging tech like SVG: "System and method to extend svg-format files with any non-svg content."
Do you work in an IT related field? Because I do not. And I do not know anybody (at work) that has even heard of openoffice. In fact, I do not think it would even occur to most of those people that there might even exist another "office" solution.
I know when I tell people that I don't use MS Office they are shock and almost immeditely assume that I must not view any documents at home.
How is a fine comparable to users stealing?
Hey. Here is a radical idea. Maybe instead of telling people at work that you don't use MS Office, you should tell them about Open Office. Then you would know lots of people who have heard about Open Office!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
http://www.allbyer.com/ Hi,Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,Here are the most popular, most stylish and avant-garde shoes,handbags,Tshirts, jacket,Tracksuit w ect...NIKE SHOX,JORDAN SHOES 1-24,AF,DUNK,SB,PUMA ,R4,NZ,OZ,T1-TL3) $35HANDBGAS(COACH,L V, DG, ED HARDY) $35TSHIRTS (POLO ,ED HARDY, LACOSTE) $16
thanks... For details, please consult http://www.allbyer.com/
me too!
AN OPEN LETTER TO HOBBYISTS
By William Henry Gates III
February 3, 1976
An Open Letter to Hobbyists
To me, the most critical thing in the hobby market right now is the lack of good software courses, books and software itself. Without good software and an owner who understands programming, a hobby computer is wasted. Will quality software be written for the hobby market?
Almost a year ago, Paul Allen and myself, expecting the hobby market to expand, hired Monte Davidoff and developed Altair BASIC. Though the initial work took only two months, the three of us have spent most of the last year documenting, improving and adding features to BASIC. Now we have 4K, 8K, EXTENDED, ROM and DISK BASIC. The value of the computer time we have used exceeds $40,000.
The feedback we have gotten from the hundreds of people who say they are using BASIC has all been positive. Two surprising things are apparent, however, 1) Most of these "users" never bought BASIC (less than 10% of all Altair owners have bought BASIC), and 2) The amount of royalties we have received from sales to hobbyists makes the time spent on Altair BASIC worth less than $2 an hour.
Why is this? As the majority of hobbyists must be aware, most of you steal your software. Hardware must be paid for, but software is something to share. Who cares if the people who worked on it get paid?
Is this fair? One thing you don't do by stealing software is get back at MITS for some problem you may have had. MITS doesn't make money selling software. The royalty paid to us, the manual, the tape and the overhead make it a break-even operation. One thing you do do is prevent good software from being written. Who can afford to do professional work for nothing? What hobbyist can put 3-man years into programming, finding all bugs, documenting his product and distribute for free? The fact is, no one besides us has invested a lot of money in hobby software. We have written 6800 BASIC, and are writing 8080 APL and 6800 APL, but there is very little incentive to make this software available to hobbyists. Most directly, the thing you do is theft.
What about the guys who re-sell Altair BASIC, aren't they making money on hobby software? Yes, but those who have been reported to us may lose in the end. They are the ones who give hobbyists a bad name, and should be kicked out of any club meeting they show up at.
I would appreciate letters from any one who wants to pay up, or has a suggestion or comment. Just write to me at 1180 Alvarado SE, #114, Albuquerque, New Mexico, 87108. Nothing would please me more than being able to hire ten programmers and deluge the hobby market with good software.
Bill Gates
General Partner, Micro-Soft
Living in Chile
I know from experience at least one training firm that had a contractual requirement in their dealings with Microsoft to not mention free software.
They are afraid of the news from great free software.
Personal pref is Open Office but Abiword is worth your attention too.
You must be new here. Any Apple-related story draws 10x as many Apple-hating comments as it does Apple-friendly comments.
Let us say this patent claim can potentially hurt all ODF vendors, but right now the patent troll is going after Microsoft. Can Microsoft pay some huge award and thus validate the patent claim and use it as a weapon against other competitors. Remember how the Automobile Manufacturers' Association in 1890 willingly paid invalid patent claims to raise the barrier of entry for new players?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
"Whats the news here? That MS complied to laws and judge orders?"
if you know the answer?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
"Microsoft have done a lot of things wrong"
Like breaking the law in pretty much all major localities around the planet.
What are you? A masochist?
If you hear a chorus of disapproval maybe, just maybe, there is a frigging reason of why people feel so aggravated.
Google and Apple now have quite a dominance in the markets that will matter in the future and people are far more cool about them because they are not complete and utter unethical bastards.
Do I need to clarify the point any further?
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Keep telling them otherwise. I know a dude who's loved him some Microsoft (as long as somebody would copy a disk for him) and has insulted my use of open source for the last decade. This month he loves OpenOffice.org and has been emailing me about how great it is like he's the one who discovered it. Looking into other open source programs and musing about whether Yellow Dog would revitalize his old Powerbook so I guess hell froze over. It can be amazing how slow people are to contemplate change
but that doesn't mean it will _never_ click.
They have a long history of using other people's innovation without permission, and this case is no exception.
This is funny. Open source has an even longer list of creating knockoffs of existing successful PROPRIETARY (and possibly patent-protected) products. I wonder if you can think of any... loonix? lunex? linux?
I'm pretty sure OpenOffice might infringe on some MS Office and related patents. I'm pretty sure KDevelop, Eclipse and others might possibly infringe on Visual Studio patents. I'm pretty sure WINE infringes on Windows platform and related patents and so on.
Ofcource if M$ decides to sue, I wonder which side tin-foil nuts like you will be on?
But hey, don't get objectivity or facts bother you. I enjoy reading uneducated angst filled comments from F/OSS zealots. Maybe I can get you a more comfortable chair so we can witness more of your gems..
I think it would probably depend more on what you actually use an office package for in your work.
I, along with my colleagues, have either a .doc, .xls or .ppt file open all day to work on. Most of us are self-employed as well - the PP got it right that many of us are indeed looking for the cheapest way to get our work done (it's not the only thing we look for, but, yeah, it's important).
There are currently two packages that I can think of that everyone I work with knows about and would consider good enough to work with: Open office and Softmaker's line of products.
In the mean time, we would rather you pop on over to your favorite torrent site and get a virus infested pirated copy of our lovely office suite rather than trudging over to the damned dingy open office site and use that... thanks, Steve
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
If the patent says they cannot use XML just change and > to and call it LMX. Then patent the LMX reader and writer, and screw everyone else from using it. I'd be pissed if I was microsoft. A patent that says a Document saved in XML. Define what a Document is for computers, oh yeah that probably will include the product "Word" in the definition.
.I find it interesting that they keep a copy of still infringing software available to purchase, AND its the most expensive version they offer.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I know a lot of people not in the IT world that have asked me about OO.. "can i use this instead, i cant afford 'office'?".
---- Booth was a patriot ----
A food store, like any other store, sets the price of the food it sells to the point that brings it the most profit. Rising the price will decrease, not increase, profits. So yes, it pays for any stolen items out of its own pockets, since it has no other options.
I wish people stopped perpetuating the PR-invented myth that companies are somehow impervious to fines because they can simply get more money from their customers to cover it. They can't, because if they could, they'd already be doing so. Any company blaming a price increase to fines, theft or anything like that is flat out lying.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Actually, the stolen stuff comes directly out of its pockets, in the form of paid invoices for the items that were nicked.
From an economics standpoint, there is no difference between a fine and a theft. If the thief is never apprehended it hurts their assets just as badly as a legit fine.
The only blame that is deserved is upon the thief, who got away with it.
Much like spammers freely exploit stolen computing resources...and get away with it.
Well known M$ corporate apologist loves to gobble Gates' cock and slurp up Ballmer's jizz. News at 11.
So attack the person's character and not his statement? I don't agree with him either, but let's disagree with him in a civilised manner, instead of calling him names. That gives us quite a bit more credibility than spouting idiocy like this.
How about this: Given Microsoft's history of defying anti-competition laws and their refusal to comply with earlier court orders, yes, it WOULD be news that they are actually complying with a court order.
This is also news for people who have ordered Office and are wondering if we're going to get our software.
And no, I didn't have a say in what office software we buy, so don't flame me for being a hypocrite. I'm just following orders. I'd rather go with Open Office, and I recommended it during the decision-making process.
And hopefully this will help others realise that Microsoft opponents aren't all epithet-spouting crackpots like this guy.
M$ complying with the law is news.
Not really. MSFT just picks and chooses when to do so. MSFT doesn't believe in rules restricting molopolistic business practices--it has been a belief deeply ingrained within their executive team, including Gates and Ballmer. That belief extends to their resistance to conform with the spirit, if not the letter, of rulings pertaining to those practices including its attempts at tight integration of application-level programming into its OS (Internet Explorer, Media Player), lack of interoperability/closed protocols (bastardised directory services, Exchange...) and so forth. There is a sense of entitlement there--basically they worked damn hard to be industry leaders and they did it by their own hard work, and damn any government who decides how to run their business especially if it hobbles their ability to "compete" and "innovate". Post-Gates this hard-line is changing--albeit at a galcially slow pace--as MSFT tries to show a bit of goodwill in its voluntary contributions to open source. There will be no epic game-changing event (the way Apple had completely overhauled both hardware and software architectures of its flagship product line more than once, or a business strategy equivalent anyways) untill Ballmer retires...if ever.
If this event is news at all, it isn't surprising in the slightest though. MSFT might have fought hard to win its case and it might not think the patent has merit, but when it comes to IP law they very higly respect and conform to it, at least when they are caught with their hand in the patent cookie-jar. Unlike in anti-trust cases, they will only appeal for so long, and they will very willingly comply with rulings not only to the letter, but within the spirit as well (ie. the decision to pull MacOS versions even though they weren't specifically mentioned--because the ruling "probably" covers ALL versions of word). So why the different attitude? MSFT knows it is still a software-centric company and that patentability of software concepts gives them enhanced ability to restrict competition not available with copyright (where IMO software IP should be handled exclusively). No matter what MSFT says critically about the shortcomings of patent law, it wants REFORM, not elimination, of software patents.
If it was in their interest, MSFT would've thrown a billion dollars at lawyers to fight for a ruling in its favour--even if complying was cheaper, but it isn't in their interest in this case. If they slayed this dragon, they know they've set a Bilski-like legal precident exposing a vast amount of their patent library to legal challenge, perhaps even some directly pertaining to its cash-cow MS Office.
bet you've heard of word perfect. Alternates can and have been used previously.
Besides, now companies would not BUY office... MS expects them to RENT office.
You might find that you'll hear a lot more about office alternatives should the work place decide they don't like RENTing software ...paying each and every month for each and every terminal/computer using it.
Yep Had the same here in Cardiff. Guy thought Linux was strange and only used a snide copy of win2000. When that died on him He asked me if I could get him a copy of Win2k to install. I said no, I'll install Linux for his needs ( basically ebay!!) He's now stuck with a broken Win2k and no drivers for his old scanners. He still complain a lot though!!!
It Seems I've developed an aversion to proprietary software