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A Look Into China's Web Censorship Program
kev0153 writes "MSNBC is offering a good article explaining some of the details behind China's web censorship program. 'Google's face-off with Beijing over censorship may have struck a philosophical blow for free speech and encouraged some Chinese Netizens by its sheer chutzpah, but it doesn't do a thing for Internet users in China. Its more lasting impact may lie in the global exposure it has given to the Chinese government's complex system of censorship – an ever-shifting hodgepodge of restrictions on what information users can access, which Web tools they can use and what ideas they can post.'"
I'm sure many citizens are content to accept censorship, because the impact is minimal. It isn't worth risking upheaval if they feel they don't have much to gain.
As fewer major players operate in China, the citizens will realize the effects of censorship more.
Doing so encourages the citizens of China to push for an end to censorship.
http://blindscribblings.com - Tasty pop-culture in conceptual fashion.
Not a bad system, install a censor in everyones head, and let the companies do it in "good faith"
“It means you should self-censor, limit your mind and be cautious, because you have no idea where the line is.”
Frequently, what observers assume is blocked by Beijing, is actually taken out of the public arena by Internet companies trying to read the government’s will, he said.
And you can get kick off for hosting “low and vulgar” content.
Also, it seems they are still using the RST package technique, easy to circumvent with your own packet filter.
“The Internet was the Gods’ first gift to China,” he said. “Twitter is the second.”
Censorship Program? That sounds like some kind of opt-in add-on to their internet service. I don't think I'll be signing up for that one.
Google leaving China does do something for Chinese citizens -- it makes them wonder why Google pulled out. The Chinese govt. will have a difficult time offering a convincing explanation that isn't embarrassing. More convincing explanations will be found elsewhere on the internet, leading more people to distrust the Chinese government and start getting their news elsewhere.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
governments work when they rule by consensus. but when they need coercion to rule, they are weak, and their days are numbered. when, not if, the chinese economy takes a downturn (no economy grows forever), the people will inevitably grumble. but if they can't even grumble, it's not "harmonious", we shall begin to see an unraveling of faith in the government, like we see in tehran
why does the chinese government fear the words of its own people?
it lays bare the fact that their agenda is not the agenda of their own people
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Our site http://1place.com.au/ is blocked which on has our work or intellectual property generally (e.g. art events, design, patents, copyright, latest trade mark disputes, great marketing podcasts...) ....
However, the bare buttocks at the opera house as photographed by Spencer Tunick has no problems getting passed the great wall: http://thespencertunickexperience.org/2010-03_Sydney/Sydney_The_Base_2010.htm
I was surprised.
We were informed by a Chinese resident that: "Nudity is no probelm. It is subversive activity [of IP protection] such as your website that is blocked."
... our Government in the United States forces it's notion of "net neutrality" upon us.
If you disagree with me on social issues, then it's pretty clear that you are a narrow-minded bigot.
if an Internet surfer in China searches for...a banned and harshly suppressed religious group — the firewall responds by sending a reset packet to his or her computer that results in the display of a default error page
These so called 'reset packets' are reminiscent of the days of ATH0++ N0 C4RR13R....so thats what happened to AOL, they migrated to china where dialup is still accepted! PRCOL FTW!
'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
do you treat the people in your life well because... you FEAR them?!
that's not how the world works, nor basic human nature
either you're momentarily horribly wrong due to transient serious brain failure, or you're psychologically screwed up, to ever write anything like that
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Do you have a sudden urge to purchase a copy of "Catcher in the Rye"?
Remember the Star Trek Deep Space Nine episode where Quark is trying to get a replacement module to go in the head of Garrak (my spellings are probably atrocious), anyway: he contacts a "supplier" in the Cardasian government and asks him to look up the part number for him. The supplier does so and his computer informs him that by looking up that part number he has been automatically sentenced to 20 years or so of hard labor. Now that's efficiency. Quark hastily says good bye and cuts the connection.
Shh.
Fair, impartial and unbiased reporting from MSNBC, right?
To be sure, most of China’s 384 million Internet users log on for mundane reasons that don’t challenge the limits of free speech. A lot of Chinese citizens also accept the notion that stability and continued economic growth depend on government controls, including censorship.
WTF? Does this ring 1984 to anybody? "Sure its oppression, but its okay. The people prefer it this way." What kind of asinine journalism is that?!? It seems to me much more likely that the people just don't dare speak up against it, rather than that they are willing and happy to be controlled by Big Brother.
A friend has recently been to China, that is PRC. IRC worked normally, although he couldn't access facebook. So I've set up a normal HTTP proxy which was blocked immediately after the first page shown (facebook.com). IIRC it didn't even resolve facebook.com, we've had to put IPs in... but still my point is: they analyze the packets and they've seen the CONNECT in HTTP headers as it worked only on once request. After that I've set an another proxy (on an another IP), this time HTTPS. That worked, although you must route DNS requests somehow outside China or have a local nslookup table ;)
1place.com.au works here in Guangdong China just fine.
Confucius, one of the most influential philosophers in Chinese history. He has something to say about censorship and the role that the government should play in communicating with the people that I think makes what the Chinese are trying to accomplish a bit clearer:
Source
So notice how Chinese censorship not only applies to political messages but also to non-political messages that are deemed to not be representative of virtue. They shutdown people who have stock tip blogs, who are writing sex gossip columns, who become popular in signing and dancing competitions and professional sports culture. They don't want people who the government considers to be not good role models for the people to achieve any degree of fame. The government would never permit the kind of gangster/mafia glorifying culture in China which is so popular in many parts of the rest of the world no matter how non-poltiical.
BTW, I urge anyone who wants to understand China better to read Confucius. He was writing in about 200BCE, before China had any contact at all with the West so in order to fully appreciate it, one has to temporarily disregard everything one is familiar with in the western traditions and carefully digest his words.
Thanks - It is either a reprieve or my source was having a joke with us! I presume the latter : )
if you live in a democracy
there's nothing to fear
it actively seeks to represent the middle ground. in this way it gains power. fear is never part of the process. its the difference between ruling by attractive force, and ruling by repulsive force
yes, as you say: it's not love, your government doesn't love you. but to even contemplate this absurdity says a lot about your thought processes. at best, you are offering a strawman. at worst you only understand simpleminded ideas of what government is. a democracy, rule by consensus, is not based on any kind of fear. really
that you believe only force, coercion and fear is the way all governments work in this world is some massive failure of perception on your part, and explains a lot of truly mindlessly cynical observations out there that i see people make about government
try to understand there's a little more nuance in your world. right now, your ability to understand what government is is stunted
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
and so the people are not about to second guess it, as this has dramatically improved their lives
in the 1970s, we could have an argument about china avoiding capitalism, and you would have said: "who cares, the people still support the government"
but the government, wisely, embraced capitalism, jettisoning communism, leading them to where they are today
the same choices apply to democracy and freedom of expression
eventually, growth slows or declines, its inevitable: no economy grows forever. when that happens, the MAJORITY will grumble, and they will run headlong into their own government (no grumbling allowed!) then what? is the picture you paint of a mostly placated populace still relevant in your depictions?
now, the government, in its wisdom, could embrace freedom of expression and democracy, at some point, before the capitalist ride to prosperity peaks. and they thereby install pressure relief valves in society, and thus china is truly modern, and stable, and i would embrace such a china
but they also could wed themselves to continued absolute control of all expression and decide everything by elite class
and chinese society will begin to fall apart, and i will continue my disapproval
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
"MSNBC is offering a good article..."
You lost me there.
This author takes full ownership and responsibility for the unpopular opinions outlined above.
You can test this for yourself, got to http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010 and search for some innocuous topics, then search for 'falun gong'
a little taste of what it's like living under real censorship.
saying "its a republic" and thinking this nullifies that fact is like saying "its a chicken, so its not a bird"
its a democracy that rules with the consent of the popular will, of which i am a part of
if you don't believe or understand this simple obvious fact, you're some sort of horribly sheltered and propagandized moron
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Both governments are living in the past.
do you go around thinking the only reason people interact with you cooperatively is due to fear of what you will do if they don't cooperate?
you have some sort of psychological problem. human nature is not this stunted. believe it or not, there are other motivations in this world
at best, you're paranoid. at worst, you're psychotic
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Get real people, there is censorship everywhere (slashdot story yesterday about net filtering in schools ...).
Reminds me of somebody saying she preferred light skinned blacks (light-skinned/dark-skinned, at the end of the day both versions are still blacks).
And I don't know what childhood trauma some posters have endured, but they need to channel their anger at some activity other than lecturing random people about how their own assholes don't stink.
There is always something that can be done. Doesn't mean it's easy.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Or may be you were just spamming your URL...
I happen to be in China for work right now and the censorship here can be really annoying at times. More often than not I surf over socks proxy and ssh tunnel because there are lots and lots of non-political areas of the net that are blocked. For example: I noticed something funny the other day. I wanted to run a quick python script and went to the python page (python.org) to download python for windows to my enterprise box. As soon as you hit the "download" link however, you get an error message (sometimes you are also redirected to google.com.hk) and the entire python.org domain is blocked for some minutes. Seems like the censors here don't want people to use python - probably just not their kind of humor I guess :P
if a lot of people where to post censored chinese materials on every ip address and domain name, would they censor those entire domains and ip's? you can read about china's official news replies searching for xinhua news, i think that's their official-state-news dept.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
Australia is "under surveillance” due to increasingly rigorous control over Internet information flows. So what information flows between countries is not known until tested: see http://thenextweb.com/au/2010/03/12/international-org-puts-australia-onestep-internet-enemy/
I live in china since over 4 years now.
And i freaking hate the internet blockage, i mean fine they ban some terrorist websites and some weirdo p0rn from Japan, thats nice and Good (jap porn is just disgusting)
but youtube? facebook? and so on COME ON This is bullcrap.
many people fear that google and gmail get banned completly. If that happens im out, and many other guys who do business also. We already have big problems due to the firewall. And every company that uses the internet for more then just MSN can agree with me.
are human beings. why would they have only a small facet of human psychology as their motivation?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
the idea that the only thing that motivates government decision making is fear
do you agree with that idea or not?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
and then every other word you say boils down to "the only thing that motivates government decision making is fear"
so you're answer is currently incoherent
answer my question: is fear the ONLY THING that motivates government decision making
yes or no
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
fine in Beijing
You might be happy to know your site is in fact not blocked at all. Or maybe not anymore. From Shanghai at least (policy differs abit among
some ISPs over here). There are not that many sites falling under the block. Although a few big ones do. And there are different types of blocks as well. Some (but few)
are just broken DNS records, and some are the tcp resets that get triggered by keywords. In fact I would go so far as to see no info is really blocked. You can see nearly everything if you keep searching. But some particular websites are blocked. It is a pretty broken system all in all.
I'm really sick of supercilious observers proclaiming that THEY know the one, true, reality and can therefore detect that the mainstream media are leading the masses by the nose. Those ineffably superior observers are, of course, immune to manipulation, and demonstrate their superiority by pointing out that fact. Give me a break.
The real beauty of free speech is that every point of view, distorted this way and that, to a greater or lesser degree, is available for people to compare and choose from. That is TOTALLY different from censorship, which restricts the spectrum of views available.
I suspect that the real problem these stuck-up observers have is that the masses disagree with their infallible judgement, and therefore the masses must have been manipulated and misled.
I know we're all concerned with China's web censorship (I certainly am; I live in China). But the ChinaDaily is reporting that the Chinese are *controlling the weather!* http://www.chinadaily.cn/china/2010-03/28/content_9652977.htm (Sorry, I don't know how to make links in this dialog).
wow
have you never know what it means to have integrity in your entire life?
what a sad cynical stunted view of the world you have
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
to think of the ruled as nothing but a mob, all the time. it does act like a mob, in sections, and at times. but to view the worst of group dynamics as the status quo is intellectual failure on your part, a stunted cynical way to view human nature and good governance
have you never known of the concept of integrity in your whole sad life?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
that's exactly the behavior that could be exploited for a dos attack I think. post censored stuff everywhere, and let them block the whole internet.
Build your own energy sources from scratch. http://otherpower.com/
it is entirely true you can be too optimistic and trusting
it is also true, to the same level of failure, to be pessimistic and pathologically untrustworthy of other men
to believe that fear, and fear alone is what motivates man, whether individually or in groups, is pure fail on your part. it is a stunted broken empty cynicism, devoid of intelligence or experience, and destroys your ability to thrive in the social sphere of life
its not realism, its full on retard
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
who believe is fear is the only motivation
i am saying that plenty of other emotions, both negative and positive, motivates individuals, groups, organizations and their leaders
to believe otherwise, is, indeed, unintelligent cynicism, stunted and inexperienced in life or history
100% solid truth
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
to believe that honesty only comes from fear is completely contrary to the experience of anyone who has had any normal experience with other human beings beyond the age of 10. to believe politics is some magical subset of human behavior where this is true is a further idiotic fallacy
the simple fact is, you have to be sheltered and socially retarded to write the clueless things you do
let's put it this way: to believe the majority act with nobility is a deluded state of stupidity
to the same degree, to believe noble motivations don't exist is equally deluded and stupid
the truth, as always, lies in the median, and you, my moronic friend, are on the fringe in hopeless cynicism
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
do you erroneously believe you are better in touch with reality than myself?
all i see in your words are a low iq form of cynicism
you even call yourself "orwellian", which speaks volumes about your ignorant prejudices, as if that tired fairy tale has anything to do with our reality, which is more little brother than big brother
you're a typical stupid tool
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
i know the moronic big brother meme is popular here, but this meme is a completely intellectually bankrupt idea
the 1984 meme has gotten to the point where "something bad happened in society" (--insert creative reasoning--) "therefore, we are becoming orwellian"
orwell wrote a pleasant fiction a long time ago. it was good criticism of totalitarian societies at the time. like: ussr. not democracies (you know, governments accountable to voters?) like the uk or the usa. (also reference "animal farm")
so it made its way into a lot of high school reading curricula as a tool, ostensibly, about the dangers of totalitarian states. but in some amazing turn around, according to some sort of high school stoner logic, mixed with a lot of pink floyd i suppose, it became a critique in people's minds of the democracies they lived in
whu?
1984 bears no relation to reality in modern democracies. repeat: 1984, orwell, big brother bears NO RELATION to reality unless you live in an autocracy. please stop confusing science fiction with reality in western societies
if anything, there is LITTLE brother: for example, rodney king. that you are "oppressed" by your fellow citizens with cell phone cameras. and in fact, the STATE is hemmed in and hamstrung by citizens with cameras (a la rodney king). how does that fact jive with orwell's fiction?
1984, orwell, big brother: it would all make sense if the state had a monopoly on technological advance. it doesn't. as such, 1984, orwell, big brother: failed, dead meme, useless way of thinking about your world. please get over your fanboy reasoning. you're braindead. stop citing orwell and 1984. it is NOT instructive as to the real world you live in unless you are in a GENUINELY authoritarian state. and even then, such as this story, its not even totally the case! just look at iran and twitter
STOP CITING ORWELL MORONS. IT FAILS
good day, low iq tool
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
just your intellectual superior and disgusted with pathetic lowest common denominator tools like you in this world
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it