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Supermassive Black Holes Can Abort Star Formation

cremeglace writes "Astrophysicists have found that when a supermassive black hole quickly devours gas and dust, it can generate enough radiation to abort all the embryonic stars in the surrounding galaxy. It's not clear what this means for life's ability to take hold in such a bleak environment, but the research shows that the process might have determined the fates of many of the large galaxies in the universe."

67 comments

  1. Effective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Is this even more effective than punching, stairs, or a coat hanger?

    1. Re:Effective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Barf

    2. Re:Effective by Yvan256 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Princess Vespa: Who are you?
      Barf: Barf!
      Dot Matrix: Not in here, mister! This is a Mercedes!

    3. Re:Effective by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      meeeeoooowwwwwww

  2. Interesting... by TrisexualPuppy · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Are there any conflicts with the Einstein Field Equations as this would suggest?

    1. Re:Interesting... by rpresser · · Score: 1

      Who rated this +1 Insightful? WTF?

    2. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trisexualpuppy,

      I clearly have only a poor idea of how galaxies do form. I’ve looked at Peebles’ Principles of Physical Cosmology for enlightenment, but this is written by a master for the cognoscenti, and his section on galaxy formation is too densely fact-filled for me to see the wood among the trees, as it were. I don’t mind the algebra; it’s the plethora of relevant stuff that confuses me. I do not see any direct conflicts, but there are a few things left unsettled...

      The core collapse I described in previous posts for a globular cluster does occur under virial equilibrium. Hard binaries (ones with orbital velocities greater than the velocity dispersion of the cluster) will generally add energy to the globular cluster after three-body interactions with other stars. Basically, energy is taken from the orbit of the two stars and put into the random motion of a third star in the cluster. In a dense globular cluster, these interactions are quite common. Again, by the simple arguments of the virial theorem presented in your cosmology thread, an increase in energy will lead to an increase in radius.

    3. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    4. Re:Interesting... by mbone · · Score: 1

      No

    5. Re:Interesting... by c6gunner · · Score: 3, Funny

      Who rated this +1 Insightful? WTF?

      I dunno. Maybe Deepak Chopra has a slashdot account?

    6. Re:Interesting... by Fujisawa+Sensei · · Score: 1

      Are there any conflicts with the Einstein Field Equations as this would suggest?

      Why do you think there would be conflicts, the article says no such thing?

      --
      If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
    7. Re:Interesting... by cosm · · Score: 1

      Perhaps my understanding of physics is lax, but in what way does this suggest conflicting evidence towards the field equations any more than what we already know about singularity type constructs? We already know that the field equations break down when dealing with the infinities inside black holes, but as far as large amounts of cosmic radiation ripping apart the galaxy forming elemental seeds on the macroscale, I don't see the discontinuity (pun intended) with the field equations. What statement gave you the impression of 'suggested conflicts'? Any astrophysicist care to clarify? IMO, this supports the field equations in that the energies imparted the 'seed clouds' create explosive chaotic forces larger than their internal gravitational attraction, hence the 'ripping apart' that we observe; with energy of this radiation being a byproduct from the mass gobbled up by the black hole.

      --
      'We are trying to prove ourselves wrong as quickly as possible, because only in that way can we find progress.' RPF
    8. Re:Interesting... by painandgreed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Are there any conflicts with the Einstein Field Equations as this would suggest?

      Doubtful, however this probably would allow for some guess at bounding values for several parts of the Drake Equation values*. Not only for star formation but the lack of star formation would mean less high elements which would mean less planets capable of supporting life (ie rocky planets). The lack of supernova also influences later star formation IIRC as the supernova shockwaves help jump start the next generation of star formation as well as provide elements higher than helium.

      *ya, ya, the Drake Equation is for our galaxy but we can apply it to other galaxies also.

    9. Re:Interesting... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Now I will read from the great Chopra's "The Path of Love", P.245 because that's the author's random book and page from the shelf:

      God creates.

      God destroys.

      God protects and maintains what has been created.

      God covers or conceals His own nature.

      God reveals or uncovers His own nature.

      /deep? I prefer "The lapdance is always better when the stripper is crying." At least it says something.

  3. Will this radiation sweep over the rim by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    "Astrophysicists have found that when a supermassive black hole quickly devours gas and dust, it can generate enough radiation to abort all the embryonic stars in the surrounding galaxy.

    This reminds me of Larry Niven's short story "At the Core" (collected in Crashlander ) where an expedition to the galactic core finds that the density of stars in the area causes a chain of supernovas, whose radiation will eventually sweep over the outskirts of the galaxy and destroy life on Earth. Now that galactic cores are somewhat better understood, what's the current idea of how our neighbourhood could be affected by events in the center?

    1. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by Kratisto · · Score: 1

      That's pretty far away, and radiation strength decays with an inverse square relationship to distance. I'd like to think we're safe.

      --
      Conscience is the inner voice which warns us that someone may be looking.
    2. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by shentino · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the speed of light introducing a mondo huge delay.

    3. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by X0563511 · · Score: 1

      Until we can (if we can) exploit quantum mechanics to otherwise see this coming, it will be far too late to do anything about it.

      --
      For large sets, this will be our guide even unto death, for the LORD will work for each type of data it is applied to...
    4. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by mrsquid0 · · Score: 1

      Niven's story was entertaining, but from an astrophysics point of view it was sheer nonsense. Stars in binary systems routinely endure supernova explosions without exploding themselves. The idea of a chain reaction is not realistic.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    5. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by Khashishi · · Score: 3, Funny

      I think it's safe to say, if some galactic event is to obliterate the Earth, there's absolutely nothing we can do about it, so why worry?

      Although, it might be nice to know if it were happening soon, so we don't have to care about pollution, retirement, cancer, work, school ... and we can all have sex while high on heroin while skydiving with no parachute.

    6. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by History's+Coming+To · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the mondo big red shift. Why are we so surprised? Matter and radiation densities rise as you head towards the galactic core. In this, very close case, it's enough to prevent star formation, ditto on the edge of the galaxy where the matter density isn't high enough for it to happen. There's bound to be a region in between where life-on-earth-suitable main sequence stars can ignite and evolve towards life friendly systems. It's an interesting piece of astrophysics in its own right, but any suggestion that it's in any way relevant to standard biological life is simply anthropic reasoning with a very big "weak". And I'm a fan of Multiverse theory.

      --
      Please consider this account deleted, I just can't be bothered with the spam anymore.
    7. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The redshift of local (i.e. intragalactic) objects is negligible and consistent with cosmological redshift arising from the metric expansion of space which in turn is driven by a slow rolling field much weaker than gravitation. That is, self-gravitating objects (planets, stars, galaxies, clusters) are bound together in a way that overcomes the expansionary energy that is separating unbound objects (clusters from each other, superclusters from each other, etc).

      We have an occluded view of the core -- there's a lot of normal mass in the way, and lots is in the form of dust, which would absorb high-intensity short wavelength radiation and reemit it at longer wavelengths in random directions. That's a "reddening" *technically* but is not a red shift (which follows a doppler model, and does not involve an absorption and reemission or a scattering collision).

      "There's bound to be a region in between where live-on-earth-suitable ... can evolve towards life friendly systems". Obviously, since we must be in such a region, since we are on a life-on-earth-suitable planet, which comprises heavy elements from stellar nucleosynthesis in a predecessor star to our current one (i.e., the one(s) that went supernova and emitted mixed-element gases which ultimately got swept up into our sun and its satellites, and possibly some of its neighbouring star systems).

      Multiverse theory is superfluous to the issue of exploding galactic cores; it doesn't really add to analysis of galactic structure in a useful way.

    8. Re:Will this radiation sweep over the rim by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you mean _the rim_ ?
      So finally we've got a goatse reference; what else could you expect in the "black hole" thread?

  4. Polarizing by Itninja · · Score: 4, Funny

    How long before Palin comes out against this? I am guessing it would go a little something like: 'Now the 'liberal elites' want us to think that God performs abortions?!'. Then she will follow up with various sentence fragments taken from a 'quote of the day' calendar.

    --
    I judt got a nre Kinesis keybiartf so please excusr ant egregiou typos.
    1. Re:Polarizing by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 0, Troll

      How long before its blamed on Global Warming?

  5. Figures by Locke2005 · · Score: 4, Funny

    As if we needed any more proof that black holes suck.

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:Figures by Rogerborg · · Score: 3, Informative

      As if we needed any more proof that black holes suck.

      The point of the article is that if they suck hard enough, then they also blow.

      --
      If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
    2. Re:Figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so you say that goatse receiver becomes a giver at the same time?

    3. Re:Figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everything black sucks.

  6. Take hold in such a bleak environment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean like our galaxy?

    If anything, going through this phase of having the supermassive back hole stop new star formation may be the precursor to stabilizing things enough that life can evolve without being interrupted by new stars forming.

  7. These evil liberal black hole abortionists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Denying the unborn stars their right to life!

    (I bet they're pro gay marriage, too!)

  8. Abortion! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is one place I would fully support the Westboro Baptist Church going to protest things like abortion. Hopefully they can all find the nearest supermassive black hole and go there to protest its role in abortion.

  9. i could hazard a guess by roju · · Score: 1

    It's not clear what this means for life's ability to take hold in such a bleak environment

    Really?

  10. This Supermassive Black Hole... by ScottySniper · · Score: 0

    ... I find it, a-muse-ing.

    1. Re:This Supermassive Black Hole... by therblig · · Score: 1

      That's the worst song on that album!

      --

      I struggled for days and days and all I got was this lousy sig.

    2. Re:This Supermassive Black Hole... by soupforare · · Score: 1

      There's more than one song on the album?

      --
      --- Do you believe in the day?
  11. I disagree by AGSHender · · Score: 1

    I think "Supermassive Black Hole" in fact turned Muse into huge stars. Wait, isn't that what you're talking about?

  12. It's not clear? What this means for life? by hAckz0r · · Score: 1

    Seems pretty clear to me. No stars, ..no supernova's, ..no condensed matter, ..no planets, ..no life as we know it. Short of some kind of bizarre plasma based lifeforms you could not expect to find ET. I think I will stay out of that part of the Universe just the same.

    1. Re:It's not clear? What this means for life? by kalirion · · Score: 1

      Stars which were already in those galaxies are still there, are they not? Life could've already developed there billions of years go. It just needs some singularity screen for the radiation.

    2. Re:It's not clear? What this means for life? by MBGMorden · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They are, but life typically forms around second or third gen stars. Before then, most of the matter in a galaxy is hyrdogen with a little helium thrown in. Only after a big round of massive stars + the associated supernovas do you start getting heavy elements in the proceeding star systems.

      The upside though is that according to the article, only 33% of the galaxies observed displayed this phenomenon. That's still a massive (the majority) number of galaxies that are just fine. Most importantly including our own. If we EVER achieve interstellar travel that'll be great, but interGALACTIC travel is almost certainly never going to happen (hell, even in Star Trek's far out there perfect future intergalactic travel is not feasible), so it doesn't really matter that much to us aside from scientific knowledge. Our galaxy is one of the good ones. Besides, the majority of galaxies appear to be dwarf galaxies, which would be unaffected by this.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
  13. Hopefully they didn't use federal funds... by stoicfaux · · Score: 1

    Poor NASA. Now they're going to lose even more funding as Republicans and pro-life Democrats lobby to prevent NASA from using federal funds to investigate such phenomenon in the future.

    1. Re:Hopefully they didn't use federal funds... by orkysoft · · Score: 1

      They can perform embryonic star cell research using federal funds now.

      Also, the singular is phenomenon, the plural is phenomena.</grammarnazi>

      --

      I suffer from attention surplus disorder.
  14. Re:Then how do we explain Lady Gaga? by snspdaarf · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    No excuse, Sir.

    --
    Why, without your clothes, you're naked, Miss Dudley!
  15. Say what? by djupedal · · Score: 1

    > It's not clear what this means for life's ability to take hold in such a bleak environment..."

    Please...who said anything about expecting life to 'take hold'...?

    James Bond: Do you expect me to talk?
    Auric Goldfinger: No, Mr. Bond. I expect you to die.

  16. Re:Then how do we explain Lady Gaga? by BJ_Covert_Action · · Score: 0

    Fetal Alcohol Syndrome?

  17. Don't you mean... by TooMad · · Score: 1

    Pro light?

  18. Good Slashdot post by mbone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    For once, the Slashdot post is better than the original article.

    The cessation of star-making is not the same as the cessation of life. It might be good for life. It might be bad. All we really know right now is that this has not happened to the Milky Way galaxy, so we have a sample of one where it did not occur.

    The other thing missing in the original article is that galaxies are active things, and can and frequently do "eat" other galaxies - which brings new gas into the galaxy, and thus could restart star making (or make the black hole active again, or both).

    Here is an astrophysics prediction : this galaxies will have a high Mass to Light ratio, since gas and dust will be expelled, but not dark matter.

    1. Re:Good Slashdot post by painandgreed · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The cessation of star-making is not the same as the cessation of life. It might be good for life. It might be bad. All we really know right now is that this has not happened to the Milky Way galaxy, so we have a sample of one where it did not occur.

      The cessation of star-making is pretty much the same as the cessation of life. Without stars there will be no supernovas. Without supernovas, there will be no elements higher than the occasional helium atom. Unless we come up with a way to make a life form out of pure hydrogen, the lack of stars pretty much means the lack of life.

    2. Re:Good Slashdot post by icegreentea · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It means that life that already started may not cease when supermassive black holes enter the super radiant (ha!) phase. The article mentions this phase lasts hundreds of millions of years. The estimated time of start of life on earth is like 4 billion years ago. So if the atmosphere of a life bearing planet can shield enough of the xrays, then life could well continue on a planet during the super radiant stage.

      It just means life (well, really stars) will end faster in those galaxies in the LONNGGG run.

    3. Re:Good Slashdot post by mbone · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So if the atmosphere of a life bearing planet can shield enough of the xrays, then life could well continue on a planet during the super radiant stage.

      Exactly. Or, even if not, life could reform.

      Given the number of galaxies that the Milky Way has eaten (which would restock the missing gas), and the "missing" 500 million years or so of life in the very early history of our planet, I would not be too shocked if this had happened to the Milky Way a while ago, say 4.3 to 4.2 billion years ago. Of course, there is no evidence of this.

      If this happened now, some life on Earth, such as bacteria buried kilometers down in the crust, would almost certainly survive it. As for us, well, there might be a mine-shelter gap...

    4. Re:Good Slashdot post by khayman80 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like the dark galaxy called VIRGOHI 21 which might have ~1000x as much dark matter as visible matter (compare to ~10-20x for the Milky Way's ratio).

    5. Re:Good Slashdot post by John+Hasler · · Score: 1

      > If this happened now, some life on Earth, such as bacteria buried kilometers
      > down in the crust, would almost certainly survive it.

      What sort of intensity are we talking about here? A blast necessitating kilometers of shielding seems unlikely. That would, I think, vaporize the rock on the surface.

      --
      Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
    6. Re:Good Slashdot post by mbone · · Score: 1

      What sort of intensity are we talking about here?

      I don't really know, and intensity is not the only thing - you need to know how it would affect the atmosphere, climate, biosphere, etc. and that depends on what state the the climate, atmosphere biosphere, etc., were in. I was just trying to provide an existence proof to show that something was likely to survive.

  19. What are these galaxies made of if not stars? by Fractal+Dice · · Score: 1

    What sort of timescale are we looking at for such a galaxy to exhaust it's stars and become invisible to us? Could the void out there be full of "dark galaxies" that burned out fast and early and have no remaining active stars or are the supermassive galaxies being studies represent the first generation of such things to arise, presumably lingering on for many, many billions of years, dimming slowly as only the longest-lived stars remain?

    1. Re:What are these galaxies made of if not stars? by Bigjeff5 · · Score: 4, Informative

      What are these galaxies made of if not stars?

      Gas, lots and lots of gas.

      It's actually what stars are made of, along with the vast majority of planets. When stars super-nova, then they create dust, which can then become earth-like rocky planets. In baby galaxies and in galaxies with an active super-massive black hole, gas is being sucked in to the black hole so fast that it glows, It's like an ultra-massive star with a super-massive black hole core. The radiation from these black holes comes from the gas surrounding it falling in, not from the black hole itself. This radiation can potentially kick start other stars further out to form.

      Basically what the article is saying, is that a black hole can become so large, that if it activates again (new gas is introduced in some way, or it has simply had so much to consume that if finally hit the right size) that it can kill any young stars in the galaxy. That doesn't mean the older stars will be eliminated, because once a star reaches a certain size its own pressure maintains the reaction without external influence. It's the ones that are still collecting gas and are too small to maintain their own reaction that can be snuffed out.

      Furthermore, the gravity of a black hole, even a supermassive, has limits. Our solar system, for example, is well outside the range of the Milky Way's supermassive black hole - we are held in orbit by proximity to the mass of stars further from the center of the galaxy. So what you will end up with is not giant, invisible galaxies, but galaxies with a giant hole in the middle (like all galaxies with a non-active supermassive) and zero new star formation. It would take close to the heat death of the universe for them to become dark, and most galaxies will be nearly dark by then anyway.

      --
      Security is mostly a superstition... Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. - Helen Keller
    2. Re:What are these galaxies made of if not stars? by mbone · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What sort of timescale are we looking at for such a galaxy to exhaust it's stars and become invisible to us?

      Depends, but almost certainly >> the age of the Milky Way. After all, we have a bunch of globular clusters orbiting the galaxy, with no gas and all old stars, which are certainly still visible.

  20. LOL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See, god practices abortion.

  21. Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...and you should be getting lots of V1@GRA ads pretty shortly here. Cheers!

    spoken like someone that never actually used gmail. the spam filters are very good.

  22. In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    American Christian terrorists are working on a gun sufficient to kill a black hole.

  23. Logic Escapes Unharmed by DynaSoar · · Score: 1

    > a supermassive black hole quickly devours gas and dust, it can generate enough
    > radiation to abort all the embryonic stars in the surrounding galaxy. It's not
    > clear what this means for life's ability to take hold in such a bleak environment,

    For life that can exist in space without matter (gas, dust, stars, etc.) but with a large dose of radiation, it wouldn't mean much at all. Except that life is made of matter and thus it would get sucked in too.

    I would imagine that a supermassive black hole "can" do anything it wants. Let's see you try to stop it, you silly baryonic, self-organizing, endothermic, negentropic bipeds.

    --
    "I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid." -- Bishop 341-B
  24. cool! by hesaigo999ca · · Score: 1

    We are spending way too much energy on stuff that is happening millions of light years away , how much is this costing us the tax payer to fund these discoveries that we can do without, seriously, have we come close to ending famine or curing cancer....i think those are the top 2 priorities, i understand we need to up to date to continue our moon missions and all, but what is happening so far away about these blackholes seems a bit to miss the point , no?