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Telecom Cables Wanted For Climate Research

schliz writes "Oceanographers have called for telecommunications companies to use their active and retired submarine fibre to collect climate data. Sydney University's John You says voltmeters could simply be attached to cable landing stations to measure ocean currents via the electromagnetic current that they generate. More information about salinity and seismology could be collected by attaching sensors to repeater boxes that are typically installed every 100km of cable to amplify signals. Because fibre optic cables could remain under the sea for decades, they could be a consistent, continual source of data for researchers."

48 comments

  1. Current generated in fibre????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    "Voltmeters would cost up to $3,000 to set up, he said, and because fibre optic cables could remain under the sea for decades, they could be a consistent, continual source of data for researchers."

    Somebody's unclear on the concept, and I don't think it's me.

    1. Re:Current generated in fibre????? by _merlin · · Score: 1

      What about the metal sheath? They don't string naked fibres across the seabed.

    2. Re:Current generated in fibre????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      You do realize that undersea fiber optic cables are bundled with high voltage power lines to power all those repeaters, right?

    3. Re:Current generated in fibre????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Voltmeters would cost up to $3,000 to set up, he said, and because fibre optic cables could remain under the sea for decades, they could be a consistent, continual source of data for researchers."

      Somebody's unclear on the concept, and I don't think it's me.

      No, no, I think it is you. You don't know how an undersea fiber *CABLE* is constructed.

    4. Re:Current generated in fibre????? by bieber · · Score: 3, Informative

      The plan is to measure voltage generated by water moving around the cables, not current traveling through them.

    5. Re:Current generated in fibre????? by oiron · · Score: 1

      Somebody is also very unclear in their explanation, and I think that's you...

      What, exactly, do you think is wrong with the concept, again?

    6. Re:Current generated in fibre????? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I think I saw this posted in a commnet on /., but for those who missed it you can read all about undersea cable as a travelogue kind of story and it's actually pretty interesting.

      Posting anonymously because I don't need to karma-whore.

    7. Re:Current generated in fibre????? by bigrockpeltr · · Score: 1

      exactly... the voltmeters would only be sending data over/through the fibre channels.

      --
      $ unzip, strip, touch, finger, grep, mount, fsck, more, yes,fsck,fsck,fsck,umount, sleep
  2. Bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    What if we found out something we really don't want to know?

    1. Re:Bad idea by segin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's a hell of a lot better than not knowing.

    2. Re:Bad idea by oiron · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ...said the ostritch as it burrowed its head into the sand...

    3. Re:Bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      It's a hell of a lot better than not knowing.

      Do you have any idea how much Australia earns from coal exports? Why should the Australian taxpayer fund research aimed at providing data to undermine that industry and ruin our economy?

      Someone has to place some limits on scientists, otherwise they'll just go around playing God.

    4. Re:Bad idea by clarkkent09 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Yep when Godzilla wakes up we need to know if he's moving towards Tokyo or New York.

      --
      Negative moral value of force outweighs the positive value of good intentions.
    5. Re:Bad idea by aliquis · · Score: 1

      What if we found out something we really don't want to know?

      - That's weird ...
      - This volt-meter needle makes a fapfapfap-motion.

      *investigation starts*

      Turns out it was god sitting at the bottom of the ocean masturbating in front of a huge pile of drown kittens.

    6. Re:Bad idea by aliquis · · Score: 1

      ... including ceiling cat! Turns out God doesn't like to be watched doing the dirty either.

      Curiosity killed the cat!

    7. Re:Bad idea by bertok · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's a hell of a lot better than not knowing.

      Do you have any idea how much Australia earns from coal exports? Why should the Australian taxpayer fund research aimed at providing data to undermine that industry and ruin our economy?

      Someone has to place some limits on scientists, otherwise they'll just go around playing God.

      About AUD 55 billion a year, or about 5% of our GDP. That's 250 million tonnes of carbon, which turns into almost a billion tonnes of CO2 once burned.

      So yeah, a truly scary amount of coal, but if people start taking global warming seriously, then there are alternatives. We could start exporting Uranium instead, we do have huge reserves. In the same time period, we only exported about AUD 1 billion of Uranium.

      Losing 5% of the GDP would certainly be less than ideal, but it wouldn't destroy the Australian economy, especially if it happened over a few decades.

    8. Re:Bad idea by M8e · · Score: 1

      1. Ostriches don't burrow their head into sand.
      2. Ostriches can't speak.

      Sorry if you really didn't wanted to know that.

    9. Re:Bad idea by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      Then we get 'auditors' telling us it doesn't really exist. In other words, business as usual.

      Mart

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    10. Re:Bad idea by node_chomsky · · Score: 1

      What if we found out something we really don't want to know?

      There is no such thing.

    11. Re:Bad idea by node_chomsky · · Score: 1

      How is measuring something "playing God"?

    12. Re:Bad idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt my buddy's really hungry enough to eat a horse, or that my dead uncle is able to kick a bucket or buy a farm as well. Not everything needs to be taken literally.

    13. Re:Bad idea by radtea · · Score: 1

      How is measuring something "playing God"?

      God is all-knowing, so any attempt at knowing anything is an attempt to step on divine prerogative, obviously. And why were Adam and Eve thrown out of Paradise? That's right! Eating the fruit of the Tree of KNOWLEDGE.

      God doesn't want us to know. Anything. It's right there in the Bible. Read it. Live it. Die miserably of a preventable disase by it!

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    14. Re:Bad idea by oiron · · Score: 1

      Yeah yeah... I know that ostriches don't really bury their heads in the sand, and that lemmings don't really commit suicide by jumping over a cliff.

      Way to miss the content and beat the crap out of the form.

  3. Voltmeter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sydney University's John You says voltmeters could simply be attached to cable landing stations to measure ocean currents via the electromagnetic current that they generate.

    With a shunt perhaps. Another fancy way of saying that is an ammeter.

  4. "John You"? by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    In before "Who's on first?" joke!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  5. Huh? by Gazoogleheimer · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The summary differs with a significance from the article to a somewhat unusual degree... No, it's not really workable with how the systems are currently set up. Yes, there is a possibility for infrastructure (at significant cost) to be colocated on these lines for data-gathering purposes.

    1. Re:Huh? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      The summary differs with a significance from the article to a somewhat unusual degree

      This your first day here?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Huh? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Makes me wonder if the US military doesn't do that already. An extension of the SOSUS system.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  6. just an excuse... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to get the fastest connection to porn.

  7. Sea plow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    They do know they plow the cables into the sea bed floor. Something like 2m down. How is buried in the dirt/mud/sand going to read ocean currents, temp, salinity etc?

    1. Re:Sea plow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it HAS to work!

    2. Re:Sea plow? by NoMaster · · Score: 3, Informative

      They do know they plow the cables into the sea bed floor. Something like 2m down.

      Only where practicable / desirable - usually on the continental shelves & near the coast, where there's a danger of it being snagged by a fishing trawler or anchor.

      AFAIK, the record depth for burying cable is still ~1600m. By comparison, the average depth of the Atlantic is apparently 3339m, and the Pacific ~4100m

      --
      What part of "a well regulated militia" do you not understand?
  8. I'm an Australian by QuantumG · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Apparently climate change is caused by foreigners and migrants. Dick Smith can see them from his helicopter and he told us. So we're just gunna close our borders and leave you guys to take care it ok? Oh, we'll set up a "citizens' assembly" where we'll talk about climate change like we believe it's a real problem, but ultimately we know it's your problem, not ours.

    --
    How we know is more important than what we know.
    1. Re:I'm an Australian by geoff_smith82 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Dick Smith doesn't say climate change is caused by foreigners and migrants... he is talking about infinite growth in Australia (and the World)... is not possible with finite resources. As in productive farm land, water, energy, materials mined out of the ground like copper and steal (iron ore). Some efficiencies can make better use of resources.... but they will always be finite and at best reusable.

    2. Re:I'm an Australian by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      he is talking about infinite growth in Australia (and the World)... is not possible with finite resources.

      I'm all for the anti-growth stuff, but why do I get the feeling (from the bit I've read about Mr Smith) that he wouldn't mind so much if Australia could grow by 15 million young white people to support the aging population?

      I'm well acquainted with the "build a wall" crowd here in the US, where their main concern is that dark people with accents and garlic on their breath are coming here and threatening to impregnate our lilywhite daughters. It was so in 1860, it was so in 1920, and it's so in 2010.

      I have a feeling he's starting from the anti-immigration thing and hanging all the anti-growth stuff around it to hide the pessimism and ugliness it belies.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  9. Full-Circle, or at Least a Bit Ironic by node_chomsky · · Score: 1
    It's interesting, because the property of photo-resistive substances/elements was discovered when the selenium-based components of an early voltimeter was being used to while the first (or least one-of the first) trans-Atlantic Telecom cables was being laid. The gear would give different readings whenever the door of the equipment room.*

    *to not be guilty of outright plagiarism, I got this from Tim Hunkin the highly-understated host of the secret life of machines.

    1. Re:Full-Circle, or at Least a Bit Ironic by node_chomsky · · Score: 1

      used to while

      Sorry I am having preposition-malfunction.

  10. My read is more interesting by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    I first read it as "...Sydney University's John You says volunteers could simply be attached to cable landing stations to measure ocean currents via the electromagnetic current that they generate..."

    Mine's more interesting.

    --
    -Styopa
  11. What? Collect Data to Fight FUD? by lloy0076 · · Score: 1

    Those cables are for sending that pr0n to me, high speed from the USA, land of the free - not for proving anything scientific; besides I can lookup 'climate change' on Google or Bing or even Slashdot and hey presto - all the pros and cons are already there including lots of data (which paradoxically I could download but that would use more electricity which would probably come from a coal fired or gas fired electricity station nearby)?

    Who do these scientists think they are, telling me that their scientific experiments and data collecting might tell the truth with careful analysis; I believe what I read on the Internet!

  12. Basic Physics Fact-Checking by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

    Accoring to TFS, fibre optic cables can lie around for years collecting data, which is measured by voltmeters sensing magnetically-induced currents.

    Since when can you induce measurable currents in glass and plastic this way?

    I would find TFS far more believable if this was being done to copper wires.

    --

    Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    1. Re:Basic Physics Fact-Checking by phyrexianshaw.ca · · Score: 2, Informative

      you ever run Long Reach cable?

      the optics are broken at intervals, and repeaters are installed to carry the signal over the remaining distance.

      the repeaters require power, so a few high voltage copper lines are run with the fiber.

      the fiber would provide a wonderful data path, while the redundant power lines would provide both working current as well as the required loop for detection.

  13. Manbearpig would like you to shake his cable... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kind of like that Portland "masseuse" did before he blasted his man-chowder all over her leg.

  14. Who is the new leader in China? by aylons · · Score: 1

    "You was part of an international group of oceanographers..."

    My first reaction was to twitch, then I realized what was going on.

    --
    This comment may contain speech figures. Reader discretion is advised.
  15. Cable guy.... by spazekaat · · Score: 0

    Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? Can you hear me now? ZZZZZZAAAAAPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!!! (puff of smoke) shrivel.....

  16. as seen at Porthcurno by hcdejong · · Score: 1

    This museum has a fascinating collection of things to do with undersea communication, focusing on the early telegraph lines. A number of cables come ashore at the museum site, and they've hooked some of them [*] up to an amplifier and loudspeaker. The currents induced in the cable form sounds that vary from noise to eerie wailings.

    * copper cables that are no longer in use

  17. other uses by duhjim · · Score: 1

    If these voltmeters had been up and running in the gulf before the spill, could they have somehow informed us about the size or the spread of the spill?