Supercomputer Sets Protein-Folding Record
Nicros writes with this snippet from Nature News:
"A specially designed supercomputer named Anton has simulated changes in a protein's three-dimensional structure over a period of a millisecond — a time-scale more than a hundred-fold greater than the previous record. ... The simulations revealed how the proteins changed as they folded, unfolded and folded again. 'The agreement with experimental data is amazing,' says Chandra Verma, a computational structural biologist at the Bioinformatics Institute of the Agency for Science, Technology and Research in Singapore. Simulating the basic pancreatic trypsin inhibitor over the course of a millisecond took Anton about 100 days — roughly as long as computers spent toiling over previous simulations that only spanned 10 microseconds."
..it's a rather poor article. It talks in very basic terms about proteins and their folding, talks a bit more about the scientist who founded the institute behind the computer, and says fuck-all about the construction of the computer itself.
Bah. For a publishing house of Nature Publishing Group's (intellectual and economic) muscle, one should expect more.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
It's about someone (a rich someone) building a really big computer to tackle a really, really, really, really, really, really, really complex physical/chemical problem that we currently know dick all about.
If protein folding was equivalent to fluency in English, we'd be at "bwawubda?"
over a period of a millisecond — a time-scale more than a hundred-fold greater than the previous record
This phrasing always confuses me where they say "It's this much faster so it's x times greater!"
So they're a hundred fold greater and they're a millisecond...? Does that mean the other guy took 1/100ths of a millisecond?
The performance of a 512-node Anton machine is over 17,000 nanoseconds of simulated time per day for a protein-water system consisting of 23,558 atoms
So... how many libraries of congress per second??
This research is extremely important for finding new drugs, and therefore I applaud the originators of the project, especially D.E. Shaw who apparently put also a lot of funding into it. I wish more (rich) people put their money into such immensely useful projects. It is not just a noble thing to do, it is also smart, since we all could one day benefit from this kind of research.
If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
Results like this just prove (as if scientists with half a brain couldn't reason it out themselves, but our audience here is the plebes I think) that distributed scientific computing using home computers is a fundamentally bad idea; a waste of natural resources.
Why? Think about it. This computer using specialized ASICs is both vastly faster and more efficient (measured in calculations-per-watt-hour) than running the simulations on general-purpose CPUs.
Now most people don't buy home computers just to run F@H, but we must also consider the fractional purchased induced by the public's desire to participate in "science" (and fractional replacements because of wear, although it's probably not the CPU itself that gets worn in any appreciable amount).
Electricity must be generated to run home computers at full capacity that would otherwise have been turned of or idle. This energy could have "bought" a hundred-fold more simulations had it been put into specialized simulation machines like this one. Too bad.
Populist science at its worst..
This has been the promise of computer simulation - "in silico" drug design - for decades. It hasn't panned out. And I say this as someone who makes a living doing exactly what these folks have done. High throughput bench work is far more efficient, time and money wise, than computer simulation. Hard to say when or if that will change.
46 & 2
Dvorak?
I love it how simple-minded tech geeks, usually IT guys, programmers and even people who should know better like electrical engineers, think that the internet is more complex than the human body... Here we have ONE molecule, simulated for a lousy millisecond, and it took more than THREE MONTHS. How many molecules in the human body? Our body is performing a truly staggering amount of computation. Actually, every bit of matter is, everything including "inanimate" matter, it's really all the same. We just happen to be more complex.
I wonder how accurate this is? Information Processing in Human Body And when we do start uderstanding how the huge amount of molecules in one cell behaves, we can maybe start understanding how the huge number of cells becomes US. Including things like diseases and aging. Once that is done, hello life-extension! Isn't that more interesting than tin cans floating in a vacuum? I think so. But then again, I'm crazy; I think wanting to have more time is the same as wanting to have more space. It's humans exploring the universe, it's just that we need to live longer than we do if we think we really are going to explore the universe. After all, can a mayfly explore a city? It'll be dead in three days. That's us, in space.
From experimental evidence we know the folding rates of certain proteins at various temperatures, we know the flow rates for ion channels, and so on. A lot of these macro-properties can't be tested in the short simulations that current computers can do, but they can easily be reached by the DE Shaw machine.
Haven't they folded all the proteins in existence by now? This is like a laundry day from hell.
there was a time immediately before it was done when there had been many failed attempts.
Well, i didnt know proteins did this. The image i get is that of animals being protein and dna based quantum computers designed to model and respond to the external world. add a human sized brain to that, and Im amazed we havent punched a hole in reality with the information density of our bodies. And the horrible waste: 7 billion of us, with so much idle time. Would it be so bad to be plugged into a server at night that feeds our bodies problems to calculate? or is that to matrixy?
The physicists have been doing protein folding for decades now. We know the basics of the physics but it requires a lot of computer power to perform useful simulations. This article is probably just another small step along the way. But if they cannot explain exactly what they have done that is new, then they probably haven't done so much that is new.
I didn't RTFA since I've already heavily researched these guys. D.E Shaw is the kind of billionaire I would be.
Summary: The actual atomic interaction equations are simulated very fast. Distributing the results of a local interaction to the rest of the simulation quickly, is hard.
http://www.deshawresearch.com/publications/Simulation%20and%20Embedded%20Software%20Development%20for%20Anton,%20a%20Parallel%20Machine%20with%20Heterogeneous%20Multicore%20ASICs.pdf
http://cacs.usc.edu/education/cs653/Shaw-msMD-SC09.pdf
The fact that it takes 100 days to simulate a few milliseconds of molecular activity hints at the potential speed of future computers. I know the actual process isn't precisely analogous to the computation, but I suspect there are more elegant ways to compute than the methods we use today. Our brains "outperform" the best supercomputers, with energy requirements supplied by a bowl of oatmeal for a few hours of activity. The mind boggles at the possibilities.
This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
Why do we need this? Lab rats fold proteins real-time...