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Amazon Cloud Not Big Enough For Feds and WikiLeaks
theodp writes "Dave Winer was already upset that Amazon Web Services (AWS) pulled the plug on WikiLeaks for posting classified US government documents. So, he wasn't exactly thrilled to receive email three weeks later from an AWS PR flack boasting that 'the US federal government continues to be one of our fastest growing customer segments.' Writes Winer: 'It makes perfect sense that the US government is a big customer of Amazon's web services. It also makes perfect sense that Amazon wouldn't want to do anything to jeopardize that business. There might not have even been a phone call, it might not have been necessary.' Amazon, which wowed the White House with its ability to scale video slideshow site Animoto, was able to get its foot in the Federal door as a Recovery.gov redesign subcontractor."
News at 11!
That a business does what it thinks is good for its bottom line? On one hand we have an organization that is trying to bring down civilization as we know it and on the other, we have capitalism as usual. Think I will side with Amazon's decision on this one. WikiLeaks may think they are trying to expose corruption, but so far, I haven't seen the corruption they think exists.
Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
And Amazon is it? Why aren't we all making our own little clouds? Oh yeah, the ISPs are trying to stamp that out. I guess there can only be one.
For justice, we must go to Don Corleone
About a month ago the White House called TRUtv and told them to stop airing Governor Ventura's show about FEMA internment camps* on TV or their website. TRUtv complied since they were also told if they don't cooperate they'd be audited by the IRS. It makes me wonder if Amazon is under similar pressure: "Pull wikileaks or else we'll quit using your cloud services and audit you."
*
* http://vimeo.com/17158872
FREE magazine : http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/prior/
Nepotism and corruption remain major factors in business decisions the world over.
They can't even handle their own server farm? What does that say about technical competence of those employed by the government?
And you would think in these days of leaked this and that the government would try and keep their data a little closer to home.
AWS shut down wikileaks why can't they do the same for the US gov or al the very least do some snooping?
Amazon response found here, excerpt quoted for the lazy:
AWS does not pre-screen its customers, but it does have terms of service that must be followed. WikiLeaks was not following them. There were several parts they were violating. For example, our terms of service state that “you represent and warrant that you own or otherwise control all of the rights to the content that use of the content you supply does not violate this policy and will not cause injury to any person or entity.” It’s clear that WikiLeaks doesn’t own or otherwise control all the rights to this classified content. Further, it is not credible that the extraordinary volume of 250,000 classified documents that WikiLeaks is publishing could have been carefully redacted in such a way as to ensure that they weren’t putting innocent people in jeopardy.
Judge for yourself what is true, but be not hasty in judgement.
Qxe4
ie. non-story
In addition, Amazon is probably too much a part of the culture to be appropriate for a counterculture website like Wikileaks.
It would be kind of like Fox Broadcasting owning the New York Times (or is that the other way around?)
In other words, Wikileaks needs to be able to report leaks ABOUT Amazon.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
comes after profits, in united states of capitalica ... i dont know there is an economic system which encourages lack of spine more than capitalism.
Read radical news here
What exactly are you entitled to know exactly and what is your basis for such an assertion?
Nuclear codes? Secret discussions with world leaders? Communications from politicians in radical Muslim countries trying to help us out?
While secrecy can be abused (that's why Congressional oversight exists in America btw), it is needed.
Except for ending slavery, the Nazis, communism, & securing American independence, war has never solved anything.
Then did it go through a proper tender with competing companies bidding the contract or was it just one of those back-alley deals?
Seriously, have you ever heard of google?
They have this thing called a "seach engine, it's like a giant database that you can query to find information like this (bid requests and such for this type of thing are made public and posted online), instead of just asking some stranger on an obscure software discussion forum.
All these people moaning that Amazon have pulled out of it, yet none of them seem to have made any moves to step in and take over...
screw over customers to get favors (read: money and favorable legislation) from the federal govt. How many lobbyists does Amazon have again?
Amazon is a publicly traded company. It has a legal obligation to its stockholders to maximize its stock price. The feds are a much bigger customer.
It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business.
- Michael Corleone
Why is this worthy of a post? The man didn't even read the articles in question closely and attempts to contribute to a public debate. More importantly he gets key facts wrong because of his skimming.
IMO - Don't waste your time. Read and reply to people who bother to properly inform themselves.
Isn't the House of Representatives composed of Amazon, Ebay, Banks, RIAA, ...wait, you mean we elect people-persons and not legal-persons? I thought RIAA was doing just fine as Majority Whip.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I'm sure it would be much more appropriate as "Dave Whiner". I know it's the end of the year and all, but somebody's whine about how Amazon is a business and is acting to protect its interests as a business is news? Not to mention the mistaken (or misrepresented) info that Winer included in his commentary.
advertisers on TV impacting news about the advertisers -- or news about legislation that affects the advertisers? What about contributions to PBS and how it might affect who gets invited to various discussion panels?
Incentives drive human behavior. Executives, journalists, activists, etc. all have their incentives. Right now, the incentives are structured in a way that promotes "incumbent protectionism" rather than meritocracy or honesty.
For example, what is the incentive for journalists or legislators to talk about ending the "Double Irish Arrangement" or "Dutch Sandwich" tax loopholes? A small business making under $1 million in profits will pay nearly 40% in federal taxes, but a large business using these schemes can make $10 billion in profits and pay under 5% federal tax on those profits. I'm talking about profits, not revenues (I'm surrounded by mullet-heads that don't understand revenues vs profits and constantly vote against their own interests.)
What language is this?
"ability to scale video slideshow site Animoto"
What great writing. Fuck Slashdot.
Amazon was totally in the right. You don't like it don't play in their sandbox.
...that Amazon is only choosing a bigger customer, rather than kowtowing to government pressure.
Even if most people were lazy (and they are), the government is still mostly at fault for its own corrupt actions.
Are they? I think that is a lazy misconception that hides the truth. Your thesis is that people are too lazy to be bothered with watching the working of their own government.
Do you really think that most people have the time to follow in detail every piece of legislation that is run through local, state, and federal government agencies? Keep in mind that to do this, you need to watch the activities of the house, senate, and Executive branches, and monitor the rulings of the Judiciary at all levels? The bills that are going through these legislative bodies are so long that the professional full time elected representatives that vote on them don't have time to fully read and comprehend them, and they only have to worry about the laws and bills that pas through their jurisdiction.
On top of that, the average guy still has to work a job/go to school/raise a family. I am interested in all the shenanigans happening on public office, and I freely admit to having only a cursory knowledge of things, even when I actively seek that information out.
The real problem isn't that people are lazy or ignorant, but that there is so much happening that you cannot possibly follow it all. Calling people lazy, is well, lazy, and fails to address the real problem: The government needs to be much more open for a non-professional (politician or lobbyist) to participate.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
ISPs and other service providers are considered not to be liable for illegal content placed on their networks, precisely because they do not actively police the material. They only take action if requested to do so by the rights owners or a court order.
As I understand the situation, if they actively police the material on their networks - as Amazon has done in this case, they surrender these protections - and must actively check for illegal material. IANAL - but it seems to me that Amazon has dug themselves a huge hole here. Any lawyers care to comment?
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
They can't even handle their own server farm? What does that say about technical competence of those employed by the government?
Nothing, really, I believe that the reason that the government is farming out hosting duties is to consolidate the thousands of little servers that are hosted and maintained by separate agencies and departments together. It is just a change to save the cost of hosting a distributed mass of servers.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
There is a kind of 'soft power' that comes from various progressive and collaborative activities such as (1) educating foreigners here, (2) leading social reforms, (3) generally upholding the rule of law, (4) favoring shared interests over special national interests, etc. In the long run, soft power is far less expensive than hard power, plus many things can only be accomplished with soft power.
It is corruption pure & simple when officials favor short term benefits for themselves, or their future possible employers, over the long term interests of the nation. It's clear the listed activities mostly fall into this category of weakening the U.S. soft power for short term personal gain, although some, like the U.S. pushing Sweden to press rape charges against Assange, are perhaps merely stupidity bread of desperation.
Just fyi, people are definitely not yawning about the cables, not outside the U.S. especially. We've only scratched the surface so far, but we've had government officials fleeing their countries, major reenforcement of judicial systems, etc.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
The Government IS one of their customers, and a very large one at that. Amazon is dropping a relatively minor customer in favor of a major one.
I, for one, salute our Fed/Amazon overl.... closed my Amazon account :)
Sounds like the kind of thing we should address with good regulation. "We .. uh.. stopped your service because... uh.. one of our really big customers decided they didn't like what you had hosted.. so yeah....... buh bye." Indirect censorship is cool.
And of course you get to decide what needs to be kept secret.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
no WikiLeaks to post it to?
How about reporting it to the FBI.
Ad you were talking about reporting corruption to the FBI?
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
but I'd rather the government not be spending money on maintaining an infrastructure that industry can do far more cost effectively.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather not let the government have the power to decide what businesses do unless they're breaking a law. I'd rather not let government censor information or operate in secrecy. I'd rather not have to recite Martin Niemöller's First they came. Nor do I want to stick my head in the sand.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
Sure.
Under 18 USC 793, persons convicted of gathering defense information with the intent or reason to believe the information will be used against the United States
I see that uses "intent" and "against". Care to prove Wikileaks intended to use the information against the USA? Having served in the US military and being a registered voter, I say what Wikileaks did was give me information on what my government has done without my knowledge.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?
I agree with you on the Amazon case, which is not a big deal to me either. I just don't' buy from Amazon anymore and that's it. The thing that's pissing me off is that, the triopoly of international money transfer, Mastercard/VISA/PayPal have shut off Wikileaks financially (Wikileaks is not the first). I just cancelled my VISA card, so their move only hurt retailers from outside my country. Okay, fine then. If you insist that I use one of those three you can go fuck yourself. My freedom and democracy is worth more than that.
If you honestly mean that Wikileaks brought nothing new, then why the hell didn't you do something about all those things if you knew it before every one else? Most of us subconsciously "knew it", but you can't act on suspicion alone. Wikileaks brought the evidence to the table. Do you really like to be deceived and controlled? Can you please help me understand your motivation? Why would you prefer a system where corporations, whose only purpose is maximum profit (as you said), have more voting power than actual voters?
It's actually an interesting thought to promote your view and see what happens. Any given business will screw you over for a better customer - just like government does it. Let's start the advertising campaign and see what happens when people are humming that slogan while shopping.
Estimates of his net worth range from $34-200M. His net worth wasn't remotely close even to the bottom number when he became President.
The real payoffs start for a President when he leaves office.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Well done, Falcon. You've refuted my point better than I could.
Q-Hack, maybe my tinfoil hat is on a little too tight, but if I feel I have a problem with a corrupt government, the (corrupt) government would be the last place I would turn to.
Typical of trolls. Like them you can't use logic or reason. All you know how to do is call names, make disparaging remarks, or some other non-constructive thing.
Falcon
Should there be a Law?