Device Addresses Healthcare Language Barrier

Zothecula writes "With over 170 languages spoken in the US alone, medical personnel attending an emergency or working in a busy hospital are no doubt often faced with communication problems when trying to dispense treatment. The Phrazer offers a possible solution to this problem. It is billed as the world's first multilingual communication system, where patients provide medical background information, symptoms or complaints with the help of a virtual onscreen doctor speaking in their own native tongue. This information is then summarized into a medical record compatible with all major EMR systems." All that for only 12 to 18 thousand dollars.

Comments

Only $12~18K?

[Announcer]

With the low cost of modern computer technology, why does this device have to be THAT pricey? Just wondering.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[MichaelSmith]

With the low cost of modern computer technology, why does this device have to be THAT pricey? Just wondering.

Low volumes. They might put one into every ambulance and ten into each emergency department but thats not the same as selling ipods or iphones by the million.

Funny story: my son was in hospital and I had him psyched up for a blood test. Not easy, I knew it was going to be a battle. Then the nurse wheeled in this big machine with gadgets hung on the outside. It looked like a torture machine from star wars. Of course he freaked out. It was their jazzed portable video player. Meant to distract the kids but it didn't work for us.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[hedwards]

Because they have to get the translations right. If you're fine with the translations being close you can go with cheep technology, but in cases like this being close isn't really that much better than not knowing anything, in fact it might be better not to have a bad translation. A relatively minor glitch in the translation might very well give you a much worse picture of what's going on than a bit of ad hoc sign language would.

Plus, you can also have a set of cards asking for the most common questions that's a lot less expensive and a lot more likely to get you a proper answer. Beyond that people in that sort of a circumstance aren't necessarily going to be speaking particularly clearly.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[Rivalz]

The real reason for the device isn't to determine what is wrong with the patient. But to find out as fast as possible if they have good health insurance and if not shove them out the door asap.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[twebb72]

With the low cost of modern computer technology, why does this device have to be THAT pricey? Just wondering.

Are you kidding? You must not be familiar with the US health care system...

Re:Only $12~18K?

[MoonBuggy]

Medical liability insurance.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[CyprusBlue113]

If you think you can compete for a lower price point, fucking go for it.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[amnesia_tc]

So cheap they can't even afford to use different vowels in the word "cheep"

Re:Only $12~18K?

[oliverthered]

are you hard of hearing? I still read allowed, when I'm allowed, or if my allowance has come threw I get some1 at the libraee to reed it out 2 me.

Good job he ain't 733t.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, they have to get it exactly right. And they have to use normative speech to get it exactly right for all speakers of all of those languages, taking into account various nuances and dialects that might occur. Just gathering all of that information requires a huge number of hours. Then there is writing the actual scripts, training and videoing hundreds of actors, and the studio time.

The software and hardware platform has to be well designed to have an excellent quality UI that will "just work" without wasting time in an emergency. QA and testing must be thorough, down to the smallest detail.

Furthermore, it is not good enough just to get it all exactly right. They have to be able to prove to hospitals that they got it all exactly right. It would not be ethical for hospitals to use the device unless they have proof, but of course, they themselves do not have the in-house capability of checking. So all aspects of the device must pass a strict and exhaustive regulatory certification process by qualified and universally accepted regulatory bodies.

Come to think of it, it's hard to image that it's really possible to market a suitable device for that price.

I'm sure glad I speak English.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[Anonymous Coward]

The device itself isn't the costly part, all the work in to making translations, software, marketing, etc. count towards it remember.
Also, most importantly in this case, insurance, medical accuracy and medical standards compliance.

If anything, that price for such a useful piece of kit is pretty damn cheap. More so if it helps.
Hopefully devices like this become popular and it makes people less worried about travelling when it comes to medical stuff. (there if the money side of things, but that tends to be covered in most cases of people travelling as it is)

Re:Only $12~18K?

[Xanlexian]

With the low cost of modern computer technology, why does this device have to be THAT pricey? Just wondering.

Medical certifications.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[tomhudson]

Because it also includes a way to subdue uppity patients. "Phrazer on stun!"

Re:Only $12~18K?

[Foobar of Borg]

Because it also includes a way to subdue uppity patients. "Phrazer on stun!"

"Don't Phraze me, bro!"

Re:Only $12~18K?

[Opportunist]

It's a medical computer device. Duh.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[aqui]

I work in healthcare IT now (I previously worked in manufacturing) the item probably costs less than a thousand to produce, but the medical world is willing to pay for it.
Frankly my experience in Manufacturing was if you needed $2 to do something right you'd be lucky to get a budget of $1. In healthcare if you need $2 to do it right you'll get $10 budgeted and nobody will complain if you spend $14 by the time you're done. Doctor's and clinical staff don't understand IT and generally despite any advice given by their IT departments believe everything the vendor tells them. Vendors know this and pull them over the table.
Frankly I'd rather mime my problems to a real physician and rely on translation services (available by phone in any decent hospital) then trust some software product. I've seen the average quality of "healthcare software" and it sucks.

If this translation system is on par with healthcare software a significant amount of the 12-18K will go towards liability insurance and lawyers to protect the company when the software kills someone through a translation error.

my 2 cents.

Re:Only $12~18K?

[MichaelSmith]

the item probably costs less than a thousand to produce

Including development?

or they could have doctor house consult

[Rivalz]

With a flick of his magical cane he can diagnose anything.

I think i'll wait until theres a app for my iphone for $2.99

Re:or they could have doctor house consult

[WrongSizeGlass]

With a flick of his magical cane he can diagnose anything.

I think i'll wait until theres a app for my iphone for $2.99

The first thing that app will tell you is "I don't care what the symptoms are, it's not Lupus."

Re:or they could have doctor house consult

[Rivalz]

What sucks is I've stopped watching the show after a few years thinking one season finale everyone he treats will have lupus.

Re:or they could have doctor house consult

[nedlohs]

You mean by randomly trying every medication they have in the hospital and doing every test procedure they can do he finally stumbles upon it. Which is a little less cool than using a magical cane.

Re:or they could have doctor house consult

[Sulphur]

You mean by randomly trying every medication they have in the hospital and doing every test procedure they can do he finally stumbles upon it. Which is a little less cool than using a magical cane.

Didn't Microsoft patent a wand?

$12k - $18k?

[WrongSizeGlass]

All that for only 12 to 18 thousand dollars.

If it's only $12k - $18k for the system, well, that's a bargain. If it's $12k - $18k for using the service, well, I doubt my health insurance is going to cover it.

Re:$12k - $18k?

[InsaneProcessor]

It is even cheaper if everyone in the U.S. would just learn English which is what the language here is.

Single Languages

[Tubal-Cain]

With over 170 languages spoken in the US alone, medical personnel attending an emergency or working in a busy hospital are no doubt often faced with communication problems when trying to dispense treatment.

And how many non-English monolingual people are there in the US?

Re:Single Languages

[MichaelSmith]

With over 170 languages spoken in the US alone, medical personnel attending an emergency or working in a busy hospital are no doubt often faced with communication problems when trying to dispense treatment.

And how many non-English monolingual people are there in the US?

Well if its my mother in law you will have a choice between cantonese, mandarin and hokkien but if an ambulance crew need to get information from her they will have to resort to translation.

Re:Single Languages

[Anonymous Coward]

And how many non-English monolingual people are there in the US?

You aren't serious, are you?

There are significant portions of the country (typically ethnic enclaves such as Chinatowns or Hispanic sections in southwestern cities) where such people would be the majority. We're talking about tens of millions of people. (According to statistics from the Census bureau and the CIA world fact book, the number would be between 12 and 19 million.)

Re:Single Languages

[theycallmeB]

And how many non-English monolingual people are there in the US?

Quite a few, and far more who can order a sandwich or find a restroom but get stumped by 'Do you have a family history of hypertension or cardiac arrhythmia?'

Re:Single Languages

[nedlohs]

tens of millions.

Plus some tourists.

Plus the people who can usually speak English but while in shock or just after suffering head trauma can't manage it for a little while.

Plus the people who have can speak English for every day life but can't quite pull off medical terminology.

Re:Single Languages

[VTI9600]

Many (nay, most) native English speakers would be stumped by:

'Do you have a family history of hypertension or cardiac arrhythmia?'

That's why doctors say "high blood pressure" and "irregular heartbeat". And those who have trouble understanding terms like these will have trouble with more than just ordering sandwiches. You can't, for instance, just point to a driver's license application and say, "I want this".

Re:Single Languages

[godrik]

"And how many non-English monolingual people are there in the US?" Actually quite a bit. My wife occasionnaly work as a korean interpret for columbus (Ohio) hospitals. And she has a case every week with the hospital. Sometimes, it is not that the patient does not speak english, but s/he doesnot feel confident enough in english to fully understand what the doctor says. Some other times, the patient is a housewife who spent time with her (korean) friends and probably do not speak english every week. I am not even talking about tourist. So I'd say that yes there is a demand for medical interpretation. 15k for a single device seems a quite a high price, since you will probably need more than one in an hospital to avoid carrying it all around the place.

Re:Single Languages

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't, for instance, just point to a driver's license application and say, "I want this".

Lord knows, after wandering into the DMV drunk after getting my DUI, this definitely does not work!

Re:Single Languages

[painehope]

And how does this excuse stupidity?

"Gee, I'm in your country, can't speak your language, and now I might die because I can't communicate with you - you should buy devices that translate my speech for you!". Yeah, go to another country and try that one - they'll still be laughing while you're floating in a tunnel w/ Elvis and your grandmother...

It's called natural selection, it's good for the human race. Stop fighting it, you're only encouraging the idiots...

Re:Single Languages

[ZackSchil]

Go to another country and they will find someone who can speak English with relative ease. English is spoken globally and unlike the US, most people in other developed countries (and undeveloped countries!) speak more than one language.

Re:Single Languages

[Anonymous Coward]

... Um, no. Actually, here in Australia, we have a free 24x7 over the phone translation service run by the government for precisely this kind of situation.

http://www.immi.gov.au/living-in-australia/help-with-english/help_with_translating/free-services.htm

Re:Single Languages

[shrimppesto]

"Gee, I'm in your country, can't speak your language, and now I might die because I can't communicate with you - you should buy devices that translate my speech for you!". ... It's called natural selection, it's good for the human race. Stop fighting it, you're only encouraging the idiots...

um... you're an asshole. just sayin'.

Re:Single Languages

[Wyatt Earp]

Depends on the State. Here in Alaska, a good number, in California, Texas, Florida, Arizona and New Mexico you'll have more than a few.

Then get into the seasonal farm workers in the west and Pacific Northwest and theres a ton.

Overall, probably 3% don't speak English at all, so about 9 million, give or take a percentage.

Re:Single Languages

[Wyatt Earp]

The United States does not have a national language, so what language is "your language" in your example?

Re:Single Languages

[WaroDaBeast]

Exactly. If developed countries want to deserve that appellation, they should be way more than just monolingual. Hey, it's a good thing for tourism and against dementia after all.

Re:Single Languages

[Atriqus]

And how does this excuse stupidity?

"Gee, I'm in your country, can't speak your language, and now I might die because I can't communicate with you"

Ugh, after reading that I now have to wipe all the xenophobia off of me. You say the above like people have the luxury of making those decisions; not everyone does. Sometimes shit goes south and just you have to leave. And when that happens to people who are adults, the bar is even higher since the brain has pretty much called it quits at learning additional languages at that point.

Inevitably though, these people will have to interact with the native populations that don't speak their language. And when that happens, the natives can get all indignant about it, or they can try to overcome the language barrier so everyone can get on with their lives. It looks like these doctors are going for the latter this time.

Re:Single Languages

[Foobar of Borg]

And how does this excuse stupidity?

"Gee, I'm in your country, can't speak your language, and now I might die because I can't communicate with you - you should buy devices that translate my speech for you!". Yeah, go to another country and try that one - they'll still be laughing while you're floating in a tunnel w/ Elvis and your grandmother...

It's called natural selection, it's good for the human race. Stop fighting it, you're only encouraging the idiots...

You've obviously never been to a non-English speaking country. Most countries have people in hospitals who speak, in addition to the native language, English and at least a few other of the more commonly spoken world languages. Just because so many people are xenophobic assholes in the Deliverance-inspiration shithole you live in, does not mean the rest of the world is that way.

Re:Single Languages

[ColdWetDog]

The United States does not have a national language, so what language is "your language" in your example?

We most certainly do. It's called Greed. And we're good at it. Thankyouverymuch.

Drill Baby, Drill! (just thought I'd get a little Palinism in while I'm at it).

Re:Single Languages

[painehope]

Actually, you dickhead, I have been to a lot of foreign countries where very little English is spoken by anyone. The first thing I do is purchase a simple translation guide and re-acquaint myself with the basics of the language. German, French, Irish, and Spanish come easy to me, other languages are much harder.

The one thing I do not do is throw myself on the mercy of anyone, ever. I take care of myself and, if by my own actions I die, then so be it. That's one thing someone like you could never understand.

Re:Single Languages

[dwillden]

Yes, you'll find people who can speak English, because it is the most commonly used language for business. And is thus widely taught in schools around the world as a required class. But get off the beaten path and the commonality of English drops. In Western Europe English is widely spoken, outside Western Europe it's not nearly so common.

So the rest of the world can teach their students two languages, the native language and English as a second language and be able to cover a majority of visitors (the commonality of English as the second language taught adds to this effect) . For the US the problem works the other way, We learn English natively and then require all our students to learn _______ as a second language to cover a majority of visitors? It's not an equal equation.

Most high schools in this country teach three common foreign languages, Spanish, French and German, a few other languages are starting to creep in but the majority of HS grads have at most one year of one of those three languages. And if we are lucky they get another year in college, allowing them to effectively ask for directions to a hospital and order a sandwich in the cafeteria, but not much more. So the original suggestion stands. If your going to live in a monolingual nation, one that happens to speak the most widely spoken and studied language in the world, you should consider learning the language.

Re:Single Languages

[painehope]

That is so much bullshit. I can teach myself the rudiments of effective communication in any language in a single night. All what it takes is some intelligence and a will to do so. The willpower is actually more important than the intelligence. I know a lot of people that are considered "less intelligent" than me who can apply themselves to study much harder than I am willing to do so. And if your potential well-being depends upon you doing so, the fact that you are not willing to do so is just a sign of laziness or gross stupidity (either of which should be punishable by death).

So, no xenophobia there, little buddy. Don't leave your helmet at the door before you get on the short bus, and stay off mommy's computer too...

Re:Single Languages

[painehope]

Not outside of hotels, airports, and business meetings. Try explaining to a Swiss taxi driver (who probably speak 3-4 languages, but the only one we have in common is German, and he barely understands enough of that to get down the street) at 3AM while you're shitfaced that you need a ride to such-and-such place. You're better off writing the address of where you're staying down and handing it to him.

Plus I don't like being the asshole American who has to speak English. I like to speak some of the native language, even if it means I sound like a retard. But by having a rudimentary grasp of the language, at least I can get my meaning across in basic ways.

Re:Single Languages

[batkiwi]

"All what it takes is some intelligence and a will to do so."

Are you going to start with english?

Re:Single Languages

[cloudmaster]

If they can't communicate with their medical care givers, that number will quickly shrink to a number that's irrelevant. ;)

Re:Single Languages

[theArtificial]

Are you going to start with English?

Just sayin...

Re:Single Languages

[WaroDaBeast]

I do know that it's harder for English speakers, but you can still work that out looking at tourism statistics, for instance.

At any rate, the language problem needs to be addressed at its roots, since most people I know here (namely, Reunion Island) can barely babble short sentences in English after 10+ years of English at school — I wish I were kidding. A couple of years will most likely yield nothing in terms of spoken language skills, especially when the teachers themselves suck at speaking it.

Re:Single Languages

[Foobar of Borg]

Actually, you dickhead, I have been to a lot of foreign countries where very little English is spoken by anyone. The first thing I do is purchase a simple translation guide and re-acquaint myself with the basics of the language. German, French, Irish, and Spanish come easy to me, other languages are much harder.

The one thing I do not do is throw myself on the mercy of anyone, ever. I take care of myself and, if by my own actions I die, then so be it. That's one thing someone like you could never understand.

So, basically, you're fine with everyone in the world saying "Screw you, I've got mine!" (And, incidentally, they do speak English in Ireland. There is such a thing as the Irish language, but it's not like you have to worry about anyone speaking only Irish when you visit Ireland. Comments like that lead me and others to think you've never left Podunk.)

You see, it is not the 19th century anymore, and foreign travel has become very easy. Thus, civilized people make accommodations for those who may not be fluent in their language. And that's not even considering how one's ability to speak a foreign language can be affected during some kind of medical emergency. There are languages in which I can tell a doctor what is wrong with me and basic family medical history while we are calmly sitting in a doctor's office. But, if I'm in something like an automobile accident, I don't trust that I can speak well enough in such a tense situation, especially if there is any kind of head trauma.

You see, it's called being civilized, which is something you clearly do not understand.

Re:Single Languages

[painehope]

I'm well aware that more people in Ireland speak English than Gaelic. Sad state of affairs, but it is what it is.

I don't have a problem with this device being used to treat travelers - or even some working guy's mother who speaks mostly Korean or Spanish or whatever. Unfortunately, like everything else to do with medical care in this country, it will be most widely used to benefit the parasitic organisms that have ravaged their countries (primarily Mexico, but most of South America; admittedly, the CIA helped nicely with S. America) then moved on to this country, where our so-called "civilized" beliefs lead most of us to treat these fucks just so they can get up out of their bed (after using up 25K or more of medical treatment, thus meaning that the doctors - who are generally overpaid, undereducated quacks anyways - just bill higher for their services when someone who pays [like myself] comes in to see them) and keep sucking dry the benefits that could have, say, helped my grandmother while she was dying and so poor that if it weren't for my father she'd have been eating catfood by the time she died. Or that could have been used to help one of my best friends (who is epileptic, has serious shoulder injuries, and is an ex-convict, so he couldn't get a job doing anything but construction-type work, and couldn't keep a job due to the fact that his shoulders would give out after a while, and damn sure couldn't get insurance due to his epilepsy; he fought for about 5-6 years to get medicaid/medicare, and instead the SS office gave him a monthly pittance - 300 USD every 2 weeks - and no medical benefits, despite the fact that he repeatedly told the courts that he didn't want money, he just wanted medicaid so he could go back to work and hold a job). I am all for being civilized - but with the necessary intelligence to be civil, courteous, and respectful comes the brains to realize that I should not have to - and do no willingly do so - support people who take until it hurts (me and my fellow countrymen), and then keep taking some more. And have the gall to insist that it's their right to do so while they do it.

I'm tired of people miscasting my unwillingness to support parasites with a desire to see tourists die. It's a distraction from the main point. I'm all for tourism and people being exposed to the world. I wish more Americans understood that there's a whole world out there, and a lot of it is grand. But I also wish that people around me would wake up and realize that compassion should not be extended to people that come to your country just to take advantage of you, rather than fixing yours. Egypt quite recently demonstrated that when a system is corrupt and broken, it goes (sooner or later). If Mexico (and Africa) is such a horrible place to live, fix it. It's your fucking country - the land isn't oppressing you, starving you, or whatever else is the problem. Your own government and people are doing that. And not me or my countrymen - yours, you greedy dumb fuck.

In Klingon ....

[PPH]

... the only phrase it knows is "Perhaps today is a good day to die". That keeps the whole health care process pretty simple.

Re:In Klingon ....

[jcwayne]

Hey, as long as they're here we should make them feel welcome.

Re:In Klingon ....

[lul_wat]

Pandering to these multi-cultural liberals has gone too far!! Earth for Earthlings!

Hungarian translation mode

[Anonymous Coward]

"Please fondle my buttocks!"

Re:Hungarian translation mode

[TheGratefulNet]

you pressed the TSA button by mistake, I see.

Female talk to male talk translator

[Anonymous Coward]

The Manslater,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezVib_giTFo

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[hedwards]

You're arguing semantics. Whether or not we do that, we're still going to have to have our ambulance crews and first responders be able to handle tourists without a good grasp of English that might fall ill while on holiday here. Do you really think it's going to be good for our standing in the world if it gets around that our arrogant need to self aggrandize just cost one of their citizens' lives?

Virtual Personal Translation Assistant

[Jonah Hex]

Can they really call it a doctor? Don't get me wrong, I'd be super impressed if it works even 95% accurate for that many languages, but isn't this just a translation assistant that could be used in any number of other circumstances? I wouldn't be surprised if it's an offshoot of the military tech used for on the ground translation.

Personal pet peeve: if they can do this kind of interpersonal interface, where the hell is my personal assistant that does all my scheduling, pays my bills, and reorders my basic and favorite supplies? Despite all the good aspects of it, some things about divorce suck.

HEX

Re:Virtual Personal Translation Assistant

[Anonymous Coward]

+++ Out of Cheese Error +++ Redo from start +++

Re:Virtual Personal Translation Assistant

[aethogamous]

I would be astonished if it was close enough to 100% accurate on free-form translation on 170 languages with no need for training to each individual's speech to provide useful translations on open ended questions. However I assume that this works through a decision tree process with limited options at each step and using diagrams to help; 'Point on the screen to the part of your body where it hurts the most" etc.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[nedlohs]

Yeah that'll magically make everyone who needs medical attention be able to speak English.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[Em Adespoton]

Here's an idea: why not make English an official language of the United States. English is already the unofficial language used when doing international business, and it is also the language most often used in science.

If Pakistan can have English as their official language then why not the United States?

Because "official languages" are languages used by government, not languages people are forced to use with ER after severe head trauma. "Sorry, you have to communicate only in English" doesn't sound like something someone dedicated to saving lives is going to want to have to say.

However, this system seems to imply that people whose stronger languages aren't English are literate enough in those other languages to comprehend the feedback in not only triage, but a complete medical diagnostic. I find this a bit of wishful thinking. But if the device can actually pull it off, it's price tag is extremely cheap.

like this

[TheRealMindChild]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/74984_1677529899227_1266877413_31787672_2465282_n.jpg

predicted years ago

[rev_sanchez]

Idiocracy predicted this.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[bertoelcon]

Do you really think it's going to be good for our standing in the world if it gets around that our arrogant need to self aggrandize just cost one of their citizens' lives?

Fuck our "standing in the world". I don't give a damn what others think of my country, and I'm pretty sure they don't care what I think of theirs.

Damn, I wish I still had mod points for this.

170 Languages

[VTI9600]

English & Spanish != 170 languages

Let's be practical here...move 170 multilingual people to another country and you can make the exact same claim. This really seems like overkill for any practical purpose.

Re:170 Languages

[mooingyak]

English and Spanish are without a doubt the two most common languages spoken in the US. But it's a rare day that I can get to work (in Manhattan) without hearing at least four languages spoken -- most often English, Spanish, German (tourists. whenever there are non-English speaking tourists in NYC, they are inevitably German) and some form of Chinese, but I lack the skill to tell the dialects apart. Less often I get Russian, Greek, Korean, Vietnamese, French, or Hindi. About once a week I hear something that I can't identify (I recently found myself staring at some guy because I was fascinated by the cadence of his language. I had it pegged as something African but couldn't do better than that in the two minutes I was near him).

Re:170 Languages

[Wyatt Earp]

My wife works at a High School where about 64 languages are spoken at home and the district has roughly 10% of the students from non English or Spanish speaking homes.

Thats in Alaska.

Re:170 Languages

[donscarletti]

some form of Chinese, but I lack the skill to tell the dialects apart.

It's hard, especially since regional accents tend to affect the sound more than the actual dialect, a Cantonese person speaking Mandarin still sounds very Cantonese. But since you seem to be interested.

Mandarin is now the most commonly heard but twenty years ago it was never spoken outside of mainland China. You tend to hear it spoken by newer immigrants and students, often young girls chatting noisily on the train. Unlike other dialects, it has an uneven rhythm, usually syllables are said in pairs, due to the disyllabic words, giving it a more familiar sound to English speakers. Its consonants tend to be dominated by fricative and affricate types, giving it kind of rough sound to it. It is tonal, but the tones are not as obvious to a non speaker as in other dialects. People from north China often accentuate the terminal "r", if you hear many words ending with "r" you know it is Mandarin and also where the speaker is from.

Cantonese is what you hear older, more settled immigrants speaking. Many English speaking countries have been open to HK immigration for far longer. What you hear spoken around Chinatown and in well established Chinese restaurants is likely to be Cantonese (or maybe Hokkien). It has a steady rhythm, syllables come out quickly at an even pace as the way an Italian speaker would speak, it is also very tonal giving it a tune to every sentence, almost as it is sung. Syllables also often end very sharply, rather than trailing off or rolling into an r how they do in Mandarin. To me, I tend to hear more nasal and plosive consonants.

The third is Hokkien, it is also spoken by older immigrants but is less common than Cantonese in most areas. I speak precisely zero, so I identify it by being unable to comprehend a word.

Sounds Dangerous

[MightyMartian]

"Drop your panties, Sir William; I cannot wait until lunchtime!"

From the perspective of a potential user...

[demonlapin]

I'm a physician, and this kind of stuff is medical shovelware. It will be sold to some poor hospital administrator somewhere who is not medically trained but who thinks that this sounds like a right easy solution to the problem of those non-English-speaking people who keep bumping up the delay times in the ER (a real problem in parts of the country that are just now seeing significant Hispanic influx, like much of the South and Midwest). Meanwhile, the doctors and nurses at the front line will find it ill-suited to what they actually need to accomplish. Flash cards work pretty well for most communication to rule out immediately life-threatening illnesses. After that, you really need a highly qualified translator. Maybe in five years, or a decade, machines will be at that point (although they'll be Google Translate's server farms, not some hand-held piece of junk), but they're not there yet, and it's wasteful and stupid to pretend that they are.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[deuist]

Plus, we already have translation phones that do this. My hospital has a contract to a language line where I make a call to a 1-800 number, punch in my access code, and can find a translator for any language in less than a minute. In the past year I've used Spanish, Italian, Russian, Albanian, Chinese and Czech. I can get through the patient interview and even give discharge instructions with relative ease. And if I can't find the translator phone, Google translate works in a pinch.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a physician, and this kind of stuff is medical shovelware. It will be sold to some poor hospital administrator somewhere who is not medically trained but who thinks that this sounds like a right easy solution to the problem of those non-English-speaking people who keep bumping up the delay times in the ER (a real problem in parts of the country that are just now seeing significant Hispanic influx, like much of the South and Midwest). Meanwhile, the doctors and nurses at the front line will find it ill-suited to what they actually need to accomplish. Flash cards work pretty well for most communication to rule out immediately life-threatening illnesses. After that, you really need a highly qualified translator. Maybe in five years, or a decade, machines will be at that point (although they'll be Google Translate's server farms, not some hand-held piece of junk), but they're not there yet, and it's wasteful and stupid to pretend that they are.

It sounds like the physicians in your area just need to learn a little Spanish. Maybe an intensive Spanish course for front-line practitioners would be more cost-effective and useful?

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[Xacid]

Ok so they learn Spanish? What about the third patient who speaks neither English nor Spanish?

I'm not saying learning Spanish is a bad thing, but it's not going to address the same scale that this device is claiming to (or even a few sets of the flash cards parent mentions).

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[TheoMurpse]

What is this service? My wife is a doctor at a couple hospitals, and this might be of use to her hospitals.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[TheoMurpse]

To be fair, though, learning Spanish would probably address 80+% of the patients you see outside of a few ethnic enclaves like Chinatowns. At least in TX anyway, knowing Spanish and English basically guarantees you will be able to talk to any patient you see except the extremely rare case like a family visiting from Bhutan.

That being said, given how much a doctor's time is worth, I'd imagine a $16K subscription service to a translation hotline for an entire hospital is far cheaper than paying for Spanish classes for nearly every new doctor/resident to come through the doors.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[ColdWetDog]

It's probably AT&T. Interestingly, in a quick Google search I could not find any front end number. But your hospital's local AT&T rep should be able to get you started. It does work pretty well and has the advantage of picking from an enormous pool of interpreters. A while back, I was using it to try and figure out what was going on with a woman who spoke Tagalog. After a few minutes, the interpreter told me that she didn't speak the right dialect of Tagalog and she called the operator back, chattered a few minutes and found somebody else that could interpret better.

I rather doubt the machine could do that. Further, it's available from any phone on the planet that can access a 800 number. Not especially cheap but it beats trying to keep an Afrikans interpreter on board in rural Alaska.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[ColdWetDog]

That being said, given how much a doctor's time is worth, I'd imagine a $16K subscription service to a translation hotline for an entire hospital is far cheaper than paying for Spanish classes for nearly every new doctor/resident to come through the doors.

Not really. If you are in a significantly bilingual area (and in the US it's typically Spanish), having much of the staff able to talk directly to a patient (as opposed to the single machine stuck down in the ER) is a huge advantage. When I was in training in Colorado, there were dozens of 'Spanish for Medical personnel' courses available. At one point I was reasonably fluent. There is really no substitute for being able to actually talk to somebody. Translators are a necessity when you can't but it is very much non optimal.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[Kashgarinn]

Nice to see that the melting pot of the US of A is still not melting. No one figured out to try and teach kids spanish in elementary school?

I learned danish and english in elementary school, and I could pick either french or german for high school, mandatory languages I had to learn as well as my native language of Icelandic.

Since then I've learnt a smattering of Japanese as well as italian, and as a kid I learned norwegian and swedish by reading books in those languages.

If more than 20% of the population speaks another language then english, it's stupid of you not to learn it, and it's stupid of americans not to teach their kids spanish.

It's like this business with the change from imperial units to metric units. The reason America failed at changing it was they were always giving people "ratio-translators" so when someone told you the kilometres, you'd calculate it back into miles, even though _he_just_told_you_how_far_it_was_already_

These translators are in the same way stupid, teach people spanish, that's the simplest and best way to do it, and if you're dumb and lazy enough to not want to do it, at least make your kids do it, they'll be better then you at least at something.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[demonlapin]

I don't think you understand how a melting pot works: whatever you put in turns into a homogeneous mixture.

If more than 20% of the population speaks another language then english, it's stupid of you not to learn it, and it's stupid of americans not to teach their kids spanish.

That's not the case except in a very few areas. In most of the country, you can go a long way before running into someone who speaks Spanish as their primary language. The biggest reason Americans are so monolingual is that there are no large reservoirs of native speakers of other languages nearby for us to practice on (except for Canadian French, for those in upstate NY and northern New England). It's difficult to develop and maintain fluency when you can't do immersion easily.

Re:From the perspective of a potential user...

[deuist]

Pacific Interpreters

ah

[Ryanrule]

i see the future is currently arriving. /waits for flying car

Or the converse...

[Gailin]

As someone who has been getting treated for a couple years at numerous hospitals. I find that commonly I have communication problems with the nurses. For a seemingly uncommon number of them English was not their first language (anecdotal xp of course). Unfortunately, their English skills are lacking. Many times I wonder if they understand what the patient is saying, or if they just nod there head and carry on their routine. I am in no way diminishing their ability, dedication or intellect. Just that their ability to communicate effectively is lacking when using what seems to be a second language to them.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[painehope]

No, but it will encourage natural selection...

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[painehope]

Right on! I wish I hadn't posted, this would be getting modded up right now!

nalla devalapment

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

ldhu nalla devalapment. romba appirishiyEte paNNaREn. bEsh! bEsh! bhalE! bhalE!

Re:Call me an asshole...

[Anonymous Coward]

What about tourists? Or people still learning the language? You're saying anyone going to America should have learned English well enough prior to arrival to get medical care or else they deserve to die? Nice.

Constitution

[tchiwam]

If I remember right, the English language is not part of the constitution. So no one can force you to speak it.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[Samantha Wright]

Your solipsism does not scale well.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[Stiletto]

Fuck our "standing in the world". I don't give a damn what others think of my country, and I'm pretty sure they don't care what I think of theirs.

Your attitude and the actions of those who share it is why we have to be careful self-identifying as Americans when travelling to certain countries.

pay for its self

[Anonymous Coward]

That will pay for its self fairly quickly.

One option use to be have someone on staff that could speak Spanish and you were set (in the us). But even now, thats not enough. So many different people of different backgrounds needing care and we are required to provide interpretation service. We are no longer allowed to use kids or other family members to do it.

The remaining option is to pay for an interpretation service. They either send someone to you on site, or you call them up with a phone that has 2 receivers. One for you and one for the patient. I know having someone show up on site is expensive. I think we could buy 2 of these a year at the rate we pay for the service.

Re:Call me an asshole...

[Wyatt Earp]

The United States does not have an official language.

So what about the Reservations, Alaska Natives? No medical service if they don't speak English?

The first?

[houghi]

I live in Belgium. Every communication system I work on is multilingual and has been for many years.

Re:The first?

[Anonymous Coward]

IMO, the slashdot summary's quote shouldn't have had that comma after "first multilingual communication system". Its first-ness depends on that feature list.

Re:Call me an asshole...

[tetromino]

I don't go to foreign countries and expect them to speak English. When I am in a foreign country, I pick up enough fo the dialogue (not to mention carrying a small translation guide) to function for the duration of my stay.

Oh really? When you are visiting a foreign country, are you sure you can "pick up enough of the dialog" to be able to explain to a local doctor what the symptoms that you have suddenly developed are, what your and your family's medical history is, and what local medicines you are allergic to (remember, the same drugs are typically sold under different brand names in different parts of the world; a foreign doctor may well have no idea what you mean by "Tylenol") — while experiencing fever and pain that would have taxed your ability to coherently express yourself in English?

Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anyway?

[KWTm]

You mean by randomly trying every medication they have in the hospital and doing every test procedure they can do he finally stumbles upon it. Which is a little less cool than using a magical cane.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

I hadn't seen the TV show House M.D. till last week. As a physician, I had been seeing patients from time to time comment about this TV show, so finally I got around to watching a few episodes.

I didn't get it at all. This guy is supposed to be some unpersonable irascible doctor who somehow makes up for it by being such a brilliant diagnostician that other doctors are forced to come to him. WTF??? How do you pick up diagnostic clues without having the patient warm up to you so you can understand the details of his/her illness in context? Not to mention that the systematic testing and narrowing in on diagnostic possibilities, that process which on this TV show is supposed to be what makes Dr.House so brilliant, is what all of us doctors do on a daily basis anyway.

If there were a "House, I.T." equivalent, it would feature some supposedly brilliant I.T. tech support guy who refused to touch the computer. His underlings would overcome this deficiency by reading the dmesg logs to him word for word, and then House would come up with some purportedly brilliant insight like "We need to upgrade the video drivers!" at which point all would fall on their knees in fawning worship, chanting "No one else would ever have been able to figure that out!" ... I guess to be on-topic, I should talk about this device. Yes, it's nice to have a portable multilingual multimedia medical dictionary around, but this device is hardly newsworthy. Guess what? My Nokia N900 smartphone running Python, Bash and SSHd is also capable of implementing a system to overcome language barriers! It's called ... making a phone call to an interpreter service! (Also available on non-Linux smartphones, non-smart cellphones, and non-cell phones.)

Day of disillusionment. Might as well go all the way. Okay, Slashdot, tell me about how new Electronic Medical Record policies will cure my patients.

Re:Call me an asshole...

[517714]

OK, you are an asshole. You are also a racist, unrealistic, nationalist scumbag, but you do know how to do a good self assessment. ; )

Adopting English as the official language of the US, a proposal which I have advocated, will not accomplish what you want which is obviously to "send them all back where they belong." Are you too timid to state your true thoughts?

Not just telling symptoms

[nickruiz]

But if you move to a country, then you should speak enough of a language to at least tell your symptoms to a doctor. If you don't, you deserve what you get, plain and simple

Telling your symptoms is probably the easiest part of communicating with a doctor in a foreign language. The hard part is understanding their reply. Machine translation in the medical field is intended to handle the more difficult parts of translation, such as explaining to the patient what's wrong. No "tourist" can be expected to know the names of all of the viruses or sicknesses they could possibly get when they go to another country. Additionally, patients need to know what their treatment options are without ambiguity so that they can make an informed decision. As an American researcher who has been studying in other countries, I know how difficult it could be when my wife had to go to the hospital.

Why would I, as an intelligent, educated technical person want Spanish as a second language (admittedly I am somewhat fluent, but I live in Texas - it's hard not to pick up some)? Why not Cantonese, Nipponese, or another language that would enable me to deal with citizens of another technologically advanced country that does a fair amount of international business? Wouldn't that serve me much better if I want to learn a foreign language?

Generally, you should learn languages that are most useful in regular day-to-day multicultural interaction. Seeing that you don't plan to lave the USA, perhaps it's not necessary for you to learn other languages. But I'm constantly impressed by Europeans I meet that speak 3-4 languages with ease and don't complain about my beginner's Italian or Dutch level.

While I think that this product is still a far cry away from what it needs to be (and far too expensive), this is a move in the right direction.

Re:Not just telling symptoms

[Hognoxious]

Telling your symptoms is probably the easiest part of communicating with a doctor in a foreign language. The hard part is understanding their reply.

For some people that's a struggle even in their native language.

Re:Not just telling symptoms

[painehope]

You're mostly right. But I don't see why my tax dollars should be spent on this when we could they could be spent developing a new type of bomb that kills people so fast that they're dead a week before it landed.

It's all about what your priorities are.

Okay, in all seriousness, I more or less agree with what you've said here. But that doesn't invalidate what I'm saying. I personally don't give a shit if someone's main language is Spanish or whatever. There's some times I find if easier to speak Spanish just to get my point across (which is mostly "if you put the green sauce on my taco, I'll skull-fuck you, rape your dog, and burn your mother to the ground"). But I get really pissed off at the legions of people that come to the U.S., don't bother to speak any English, and act like that's okay. I think I'd most likely get stoned to death if I did a similar thing w/ English in most parts of the world. It's a respect thing. If you go to someone else's country, you have to show enough respect to at least attempt to speak their language. It's not like it's rocket science to pick up a basic grasp of a language.

Re:Not just telling symptoms

[painehope]

Oh, one more thing. I'm getting the fuck out of the U.S. as soon as I get a better offer (not that I think one is coming). I debate w/ myself whether emigrating to Germany (I have the option of dual citizenship since my mother is a German citizen and I probably speak enough German to qualify) is worthwhile. Then I think about the taxes and decide that I'm better off where I am. But I do speak more languages than English (I'm pretty good at Mexican-style Spanish), just not on a day-to-day basis.

Re:Not just telling symptoms

[Anonymous Coward]

GD I need mod points NOW. Pissed away some earlier in the week...

Re:Not just telling symptoms

[Hognoxious]

I debate w/ myself whether emigrating to Germany (I have the option of dual citizenship since my mother is a German citizen and I probably speak enough German to qualify

I think you'd fit in perfectly, except you're about 70 years late.

Re:Not just telling symptoms

[Hognoxious]

Look, are you going to give me some antibiotics or not? Broken ankles don't heel[stop it - Ed] themselves, you know!

Re:Not just telling symptoms

[painehope]

Christ, you're a jackass. That was an attempt to be witty that just proves how fucking ignorant you are.

If it makes you feel any better, my mother was there almost exactly 70 years ago to the day of March 14th this month, and she said things were fine until two things happened : the Gestapo took her father (because even though he was a loyal citizen of Germany and supported anything that was good for his country, including the Nazi party [remember that the entire country was falling apart at the seams, people went from losing a war to starving after the war {bad idea, turning a lot of hungry soldiers loose, stealing their land and their means to make money, and then putting in a government that pays off their enemies and tells the soldiers it's a no-no if they play with guns again; what do you expect them to do, lay down and die?}, and the occupation government installed and enabled by the Treaty of Versailles - which is why Jews were such an easy target for the lunatics leading the Brownshirt/NSDAP movement to focus on, since many of them were active in various levels of government, far out of proportion to their representation in the general population {most likely since your average Jew of the time was some sort of businessman and hadn't fought in WWI, so he was a perfect choice for a cushy - relative to what most of the population was dealing with - post in the Weimar Republic government at the end of WWI; it probably seemed like the sort of thing to go for at the time...why not, since Jews were routinely kicked out of every country they'd ever been in - this can be historically verified if you doubt me, it's largely been a combination of ethnic conflict and racism [I think the term anti-Semitism is disingenuous - racism is racism, you don't get a special word for your people just because your religious and community leaders have gotten you in more trouble than anyone else in the history of the world, yet you still keep following them around claiming to be "God's chosen people"] on the part of those who treated unkindly with them and arrogance and greed on the part of their leaders} - was unable to do anything other than tell the German people that they would have to keep starving until they paid off the excesses of the pre-WWI imperial government {remember that your average German who fought in WWI, just like in WWII, didn't support the Kaiser any more than they did Hitler, they were conscripted or if was one of the few ways to support their country and more importantly, support their families; if the lower-echelon Nazis can be blamed for anything, it's for being overzealous and credulous in their support of Hitler and the NS - they weren't running concentration camps, that was the SS and other specialized units that were real fanatics, not just people who saw a chance to get out of the hole history had to dug for them} while they kept slowly but surely handing the food out of Germans' mouths to the French and then practically begging the communists to come in and kick their asses {even a rough study of history at the time shows that if the Nazis hadn't come to power, Communists would have; and look at the fine job Stalin did - he has been proven to have killed at least 10 times as many people as the Nazis have been proven to have killed - important phrase there, since certain so-called "authorities" keep inflating the number until if they keep it up they'll run out of Jews to claim to have been killed - but, unlike the Nazis, Stalin not only had the support of Jewish leaders world-wide, he had their public approval, as can be seen by numerous public statements made by various rabbis this and head rabbi that saying that Stalin was the greatest thing since sliced bread, never mind that he was making Hitler and the SS look like crayon-eating retards when it came to killing people in the territory he controlled}] and gave him the choice between (a) packing up and taking his family off to the camps or (b) going back to war (he chose the latter, since he was a decorated veteran from WWI and w

SSDD

[Anonymous Coward]

Same Shit, Different Dunces...

This exact piece of crap was peddled to the DoD as a "battlefield translator", that would supposedly allow a squad of English speaking Soldiers or Marines on the ground to do without a translator for basic tasks.

It failed miserably, couldn't even make it past limited, controlled, State-side testing... so now they're going after the private sector. I guess they figure the only people who like worthless expensive gizmos more than the mil is the medical sector.

For the xenophobes and small-town residents

[tetromino]

who are wondering why healthcare language barrier is such a major issue in America:

• In major US cities, there are a lot of people who were born overseas and don't known English well. They include foreign tourists (whose grasp of English may be limited to a few dozen phrases from a guidebook); recently arrived immigrants who haven't had time to fully learn the language; and residents of ethnic enclaves who don't know much English because they don't need to — 95% of their daily communication is in another language.
• Human biology being what it is, the people who are the most likely to find themselves in need of medical attention are old. And old people universally suck at languages. They have trouble remembering new vocabulary, they have trouble getting the pronunciation right, and when they get stressed (such as when they are in a hospital due to a sudden medical problem), they tend to forget English words and phrases and have to resort to their native language.
• Even foreigners who know English fairly well may have trouble with medical vocabulary (if you don't believe me, here is a quick illustration: if there is a foreign language that you think you know pretty well, try saying "irregular heartbeat" or "intestinal bleeding" in it). Not to mention the prevalence of false cognates (e.g. "angina" means "chest pains" in English and "tonsillitis" in Russian) and the fact that different countries often use completely different names for the same drug.

Phone translation

[crossmr]

Seems like it would cover this and is already used. Canadian hospitals and clinics have a translation card. The patient points to their language a call is made to the translation service and someone who speaks that language is put on the line. I'm guessing it would take a lot of those calls to justify even a single unit at 1 hospital.

Re:Phone translation

[Blymie]

Unless you are in Quebec.

Re:Phone translation

[tomhudson]

Unless you are in Quebec.

... because most hospital staff are bilingual, as are most patients ...

Can't say that for large swaths of the RoC (Rest of Canada).

And now that the Quebec government has mandated that french-speaking students devote half their time in grade 6 to a one-year intensive english training class, it will only get better. This is over and above the teaching of english as a second language starting in grade 1 that has been in place for years.

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/education/201102/24/01-4373781-anglais-intensif-en-sixieme-annee-profs-ontariens-en-renfort.php
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/education/201102/25/01-4374210-commission-scolaire-du-lac-saint-jean-langlais-intensif-for-all.php

Re:Phone translation

[Blymie]

Ah, but my point was about the unilingual person in Quebec. Specifically, the unilingual english speaker.

There have been cases where hospital staff have been *ordered* not to speak english to people, even if they can. French only!

No, I'm not making this up. I know people that left Quebec because of it, and there were accusations of a mortally wounded elderly woman being treated this way in a Gatineau hospital.

Racism knows no bounds... and Quebec is quickly becoming the least tolerant society in North America.

Re:Phone translation

[tomhudson]

English-language services are guaranteed in all Quebec hospitals by law. Sure, there have been times in the past when a hospital has been short-staffed, and people have hade to muddle through, but let's be honest ... if you're english and live in quebec, why not learn french? Knowing a second language helps delay alzhehimers by half a decade or more.

It's not that hard. Even two-year-olds manage to pick it up.

Racism knows no bounds... and Quebec is quickly becoming the least tolerant society in North America.

It's the legacy of the Americans coming up here and treating them like they were dirt, same way they were treating the blacks in the US. But if you want to see least tolerant, go to Arizona.

What's stupid is someone who lives here and doesn't make an effort to speak the language. That's as ignorant as someone living in Alberta and not even making an effort to speak english. It cuts both ways.

Re:Phone translation

[Blymie]

English-language services are guaranteed in all Quebec hospitals by law. Sure, there have been times in the past when a hospital has been short-staffed, and people have hade to muddle through,

Hello?! How does the above relate to my original statement:

"There have been cases where hospital staff have been *ordered* not to speak english to people, even if they can. French only!"

There is a *vast* difference between there being a shortage of staff and having to 'muddle' through, and there being staff that speaks english but are told to NOT do so.

You have ignored this statement, and even implied it has not happened in the past. It has. Repeatedly. In Gatineau.

It is also, if you are a die-hard administrator of a hospital, a way to push forward a specific language agenda.

but let's be honest ... if you're english and live in quebec, why not learn french? Knowing a second language helps delay alzhehimers by half a decade or more.

It's not that hard. Even two-year-olds manage to pick it up.

Uh.

Ok, so you suggest the 'wounded elderly woman' learn french? You compare the aged to the young?

Tom, are you really thinking this through?

First, there are dozens, yes dozens of reasons why someone may move to Quebec without it being their choice. People often 'tag along' with family members and loved ones. Aunts, Uncles, Parents, Grandparents, all may make a move when a child/relative moves to a new place. The elderly sometimes *have* *no* *choice*.

My example specifically listed an elderly person. You then responded to *my* example, and cited the langauge learning ability of a 2 year old. A *two* year old, that has the most powerful adaptive ability to learn a new language. You compared the absolute *worst* scenario for learning a new language (the elderly woman) to the easiest (a 2 year old).

Further, intelligence is not something that is identical across all skills. There are people that have great difficulty with language, that are geniuses in other fields. There are people that are geniuses with language, that have issues adding two numbers together. People are not all some identical clone off of an assembly line. Simply stating 'it's easy!' is disingenuous. You know such ease is not the case for all, surely.

Racism knows no bounds... and Quebec is quickly becoming the least tolerant society in North America.

It's the legacy of the Americans coming up here and treating them like they were dirt, same way they were treating the blacks in the US. But if you want to see least tolerant, go to Arizona.

What's stupid is someone who lives here and doesn't make an effort to speak the language. That's as ignorant as someone living in Alberta and not even making an effort to speak english. It cuts both ways.

Er. Americans?! Well, first, I assume you mean Loyalists, who were not Americans.. they were English. After all, they left the Southern Colonies after they rebelled....

Second, you're claiming that the racism of today has to do with the events of 235 years ago?! That's when the loyalists started to move North.

No, truthfully, in today's society of well read and well watched media, racism is the result of the *now*. It is the result of people *wanting* to create elitism, not a result of ignorance. Further, anyone that says "200 years ago, my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents had $x happen to them, so I'm mad" is a moron. An absolute idiot.

And lastly, you've returned to another fallacy. The fallacy that "If someone is in Quebec, and they don't speak french, they didn't try!". After all, you've said "What's stupid is someone who lives here and doesn't make an effort to speak the language.", in the context of a discussion where we're talking about an OLD LADY IN THE HOSPITAL.

How do you know she didn't try? Hell, Tom, th

Re:Phone translation

[tomhudson]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about when you write this:

Er. Americans?! Well, first, I assume you mean Loyalists, who were not Americans.. they were English. After all, they left the Southern Colonies after they rebelled....

The Asbestos strike was in 1949. Not a couple of centuries ago. Just like racism is still alive and well in parts of the US today.

It was the typical behaviour of American multi-nationals treating french-quebecers at the time. So when you write:

anyone that says "200 years ago, my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents had $x happen to them, so I'm mad" is a moron. An absolute idiot.

... you're the one being an "absolute idiot." A lot of these people are still alive.

As for your rest, anyone who is not brain-damaged can learn to speak a second language if they want to. The question is motivation. It has nothing to do with the ability to read or write their primary language - reading and writing are not something that happens instinctively. Or did you have to go to school to learn to speak your primary language?

As for your whole "old woman in Gatineau", I'm sure that there are thousands of examples of the same treatment of french-canadians in english-speaking provinces. Get over it, already. It's ancient history, and it was *one* hospital worker who was being an a**hole (kind of like you right now in accusing me of trolling when you can't even get the context right).

Like I wrote before, access to english-language hospital services is guaranteed in quebec. Everywhere, not just "where numbers warrant." Can't say the same for access to french-language hospital services in the rest of Canada, can we?

Re:Phone translation

[Blymie]

You obviously don't know what you're talking about when you write this:

Er. Americans?! Well, first, I assume you mean Loyalists, who were not Americans.. they were English. After all, they left the Southern Colonies after they rebelled....

The Asbestos strike was in 1949. Not a couple of centuries ago. Just like racism is still alive and well in parts of the US today.

It was the typical behaviour of American multi-nationals treating french-quebecers at the time.
So when you write:

anyone that says "200 years ago, my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandparents had $x happen to them, so I'm mad" is a moron. An absolute idiot.

... you're the one being an "absolute idiot." A lot of these people are still alive.

Wow. Just -- wow.

Ok, fine... you're referencing something else. However, I assure you that most people outside of Quebec (and many people inside of Quebec), would not have caught this reference. After all, you simply stated 'the americans'.

After all, no one in the rest of Canada would think that "the americans" were responsible for the outcome of that strike. It was Quebecers that caused events to unfold as they did, NOT americans. A fanatically pro-business Conservative government -- elected by Quebecers, that was anti-union. The way this strike unfolded could have happened in any other industry, in Quebec, at that time -- thanks to Duplessis and his government's view of unions and labour.

The Americans did not invade Quebec and cause these woes! QUEBECERS DID! Quebec *elected* that government!

The police that followed orders .. were Quebec police! The corporate thugs were mostly Quebecers! These were Quebecers attacking other Quebecers.

Man, if people in Quebec blame the Americans for that -- pfft, what lunacy! Put the blame where it sits, on the people for electing that government! Or, are you trying to claim that after this event, Duplessis said "Wups -- we didn't know this happened!"

As for your rest, anyone who is not brain-damaged can learn to speak a second language if they want to. The question is motivation. It has nothing to do with the ability to read or write their primary language - reading and writing are not something that happens instinctively. Or did you have to go to school to learn to speak your primary language?

Clearly you do not understand that everyone's brain is not identical, and that age contributes to the ability to learn new languages -- which is fact. Until you do, this part of the discussion is utterly pointless.

As for your whole "old woman in Gatineau", I'm sure that there are thousands of examples of the same treatment of french-canadians in english-speaking provinces. Get over it, already. It's ancient history, and it was *one* hospital worker who was being an a**hole (kind of like you right now in accusing me of trolling when you can't even get the context right).

Uh, no. It was not one hospital worker. It was the hospital administration. Workers had been told (wink wink, nudge nudge) not to speak english even if they could -- lets they be let go. Don't give me that drivel about how a $10 per hour worker is protected... you can *always* find a pretense to let someone go, and people fear that.

Isolated, my ass!

Do you know that due to recent fervor over language recently, statements like 'press 9 for english' has disappeared from many state run menu items? Like Hydro Quebec? Amusingly, you can still press '9' to get english, but the prompt stating so is gone! Do you know that many government departments now refuse to speak english, even if they can? Due to their managers ordering them not to speak engish?

Like I wrote before, access to english-language hospit

Re:Phone translation

[tomhudson]

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. The same crap went on a second time with the Americans under the opening up of the oil patch, and a third time under NAFTA where we guaranteed them a minimum of 59% of our production no matter what.

And yes, it's as valid to blame American business interests for maintaining a corrupt local government, same as it was for the Banana Wars, or more recently, the Shah of Iran and their "best buddy" Sadaam Hussein while it was profitable for them.

Do you know that due to recent fervor over language recently, statements like 'press 9 for english' has disappeared from many state run menu items? Like Hydro Quebec? Amusingly, you can still press '9' to get english, but the prompt stating so is gone! Do you know that many government departments now refuse to speak english, even if they can? Due to their managers ordering them not to speak engish?

Of course it's gone. You no longer use the keypad to select language. You follow the voice prompts. The computer will detect if you're speaking english. This isn't the 20th century any more :-)

And yes, it was one hospital worker. I have NEVER had a problem receiving services in english. Then again, I'm comfortable with both languages, so it's never been an issue. Most of the time, if the person is french, I'll switch to french anyway - and they'll keep on in english as per hospital policy.

Well, regardless, living in Quebec does not mean you should speak french. However, living in a predominately french speaking area? Sure, you should try! However, if you can't -- you shouldn't be treated rudely.

You should make the attempt because you would want the same consideration shown to you. Doesn't matter who the majority in an area is, you're still going to have some dealings with the other language, so it's only polite to learn both, no matter which side of the linguistic divide you hale from. Your prescription of "if it's a predominantly french area" makes no more sense than for the french to only speak english when in a predominantly english area. That's how this mess continues to simmer for some people - they simply don't want to make the effort - and a LARGE chunk of those are english quebecers who have lived their whole lives here and don't have a clue.

Really now, even the Queen of England speaks french!

Besides, if you don't speak the language, you miss the good stuff in "Bon Cop, Bad Cop" and "Les Bougon" - subtitles are NOT a substitute.

Re:Phone translation

[Blymie]

Those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. The same crap went on a second time with the Americans under the opening up of the oil patch, and a third time under NAFTA where we guaranteed them a minimum of 59% of our production no matter what.

And yes, it's as valid to blame American business interests for maintaining a corrupt local government, same as it was for the Banana Wars, or more recently, the Shah of Iran and their "best buddy" Sadaam Hussein while it was profitable for them.

Good grief.

First, I have no idea what you mean by "the oil patch". Are you referring to the tarsands in Alberta? If so, what on earth does that have to do with the Americans?!

You do realise that the Alberta government *begged* anyone, foreign or domestic to work the tarsands, yes? There was no scam, no pressure from the Americans. Albertans *want* the oil out of the tarsands! It generates revenue for them! They democratically elected (and continue to elect) governments that *support* the tarsands being processed! Further, in addition to Canadian companies, there are Australian, Norwegian, Chinese, British and others mining the tarsands! To say it is an american endeavor is absurd.

As for NAFTA? We got an *incredible* deal in NAFTA. Further, *we* initiated discussions about NAFTA! Not the Americans!

How does any of this, by the way, have to do with Quebecers being racist? Are you suggesting that there is *ever* a valid reason for racism?

You do know what racism is, yes? Making assumptions about a person, based upon their physical/cultural characteristics, yes?

So, are you claiming that racism is a valid act? That it makes sense to be racist? Because, that's what you've been arguing...

Do you know that due to recent fervor over language recently, statements like 'press 9 for english' has disappeared from many state run menu items? Like Hydro Quebec? Amusingly, you can still press '9' to get english, but the prompt stating so is gone! Do you know that many government departments now refuse to speak english, even if they can? Due to their managers ordering them not to speak engish?

Of course it's gone. You no longer use the keypad to select language. You follow the voice prompts. The computer will detect if you're speaking english. This isn't the 20th century any more :-)

Uh, no. Not gone as in "you can't press 9". Gone, as in "it doesn't say "press 9 for english". Further, the Hydro Quebec number I am referring to, does not have voice recognition yet... unlike the Hydro Quebec "my power is out" line.

Of course, your flippant response did not even cover the other points above. It is becoming quite clear that you are not actually reading my posts, with an eye to respond to all the points raised therein.

And yes, it was one hospital worker. I have NEVER had a problem receiving services in english. Then again, I'm comfortable with both languages, so it's never been an issue. Most of the time, if the person is french, I'll switch to french anyway - and they'll keep on in english as per hospital policy.

Well, regardless, living in Quebec does not mean you should speak french. However, living in a predominately french speaking area? Sure, you should try! However, if you can't -- you shouldn't be treated rudely.

You should make the attempt because you would want the same consideration shown to you. Doesn't matter who the majority in an area is, you're still going to have some dealings with the other language, so it's only polite to learn both, no matter which side of the linguistic divide you hale from. Your prescription of "if it's a predominantly french area" makes no more sense than for the french to only speak english when in a predominantly english area. That's how this mess continues to simmer for some people - they simply don't want to make the e

Re:Phone translation

[tomhudson]

The oilpatch is not the tarsands. It's Alberta's oil patch - everything there. It's been called the oil patch for decades. PetroCanada was formed because US companies were skimming off all the benefits of crude oil price increases.

As for speaking french, you made it clear that you think that people should only try when they're not the majority.

Here's your actual words:

However, living in a predominately french speaking area? Sure, you should try!

Your posts are the same warmed-over drivel that we see on both sides of the language divide, perpetrating isolated incidents to excuse slovenly behaviour. The whole gatineau hospital thing is dead and gone - give it up! It's like your "Hydro Quebec" thing - anyone who has a problem will just hit "0" to get an operator, same as anywhere else. Or as Pierre Trudeau said when people in the rest of the country were upset with bilingual packaging - "If it bothers you that much, just turn the damn box of cornflakes around!"

Another inanity:

You do know what racism is, yes? Making assumptions about a person, based upon their physical/cultural characteristics, yes?

No, that's stereotyping. Racism is actively discriminating against, denigrating, or otherwise mistreating someone because of those stereotypes.

But back to the old woman in Gatineau ... she was not denied health care because of her language. She did not receive any less quality of services because she didn't speak french. To the contrary, it was her relatives who complained because THEY weren't being dealt with in english. The woman in question died of Alzheimers - it's a safe bet she didn't know what was going on in *either* language. This is the same sort of stupidity as the case where a french-speaking Quebecer "wasn't allowed to die in french" because she received care in a hospital where some of the attendants didn't have a "good-enough" grasp of french as far as her relatives were concerned.

The real point, which you overlooked, and which I originally made, was that unlike the rest of Canada, Quebec is making sure that future generations will be able to function in both official languages. Being able to postpone the onset of dementia is one benefit.

The key may be something called cognitive reserve. Learning and speaking two languages requires the brain to work harder, which helps keep it nimble. It's the same use-it-or-lose-it reasoning that underlies advice to do crossword puzzles and to continue to learn new skills throughout life — the idea is to help the brain create and maintain more neural connections. Brains with more cognitive reserve — and therefore more flexibility and executive control — are thought to be better able to compensate for the loss of neurons associated with Alzheimer's.

Another recent study backed up the connection between bilingualism and executive control. The study, which involved babies who were exposed to two languages from birth, found that bilingual infants don't confuse their two languages because they learn very early to pay attention better

Anyone can learn a second (or third, 4th, etc) language at any age, unless they already have too much brain deterioration. Or they don't want to make the effort (and there's people like that on both sides - proud of "not knowing").

Now when you consider that what we call "English" is really a bastardized version of French dating back to the Norman Conquest, and that the two languages have been pretty much parallel for almost 1,000 years, what's the big deal about learning it anyway?

Re:Phone translation

[Blymie]

Very well, I see you have not replied to the points raised two posts ago. I'll consider this discussion closed, as you are not reading and replying to the points I raise.

Re:Phone translation

[tomhudson]

Where do I start?

I've replied to plenty of the so-called points you raised. You failed on every one of them. You don't know your own country's recent history, you purposefully left out the fact that the woman in question in Gatineau was dying of Alzheimers' and it was her relatives, not her, who were b*tching and moaning - she was beyond language. You have no clue as to what we gave up in NAFTA - for example, we can't put an export tax on oil and use the price differential to encourage industry to set up here. We had a sweetheart deal under the old Auto Pact, which NAFTA screwed up. With only a few exceptions, we can't ban substances that aren't banned in the US - we had to continue to allow n additive - MMT- that was harmful - Ethyl Corp. vs Canada, thanks to NAFTA, while we couldn't go after Imperial Tobacco in US courts for the billions they made in enabling illegal tobacco smuggling.

You didn't even know what the oil patch was - you thought it was the tar sands. A quick google of "canada oil patch" would have fixed that, but anyone commenting on Canada-US trade relations should already be familiar with the term, as well as Canada's position as the #1 supplier of petro products to the US (Mexico is #2).

My original point was that health-care services in both english and french are guaranteed in quebec. They have been for decades. Anyone can find a few times when policy hasn't been correctly applied (or do you really believe that Quebec should be held to a higher standard - absolute perfection - than anywhere else?).

So many of your arguments are so uninformed (and some of them have no factual basis), that it's not possible to debate the points with you - you simply don't know enough to form, never mind defend, a cogent argument (which is why you dragged Alzheimers patients into the whole discussion, I guess - it's not like they're going to express a contrary - or any - opinion).

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[dbIII]

I got sucked in and started watching the whole thing from scratch starting about a month ago. I get the impression that it's a black comedy where he's the bastard doctor from hell that runs up millions in tests and hurts patients but typically gets it right after a lot of false starts to avoid it being a tragedy.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[Hognoxious]

The ability to speak English is genetic?

Plot Killer

[srussia]

Shipboard fire survivor: "Keyser Soze"

Phrazer:"It was Kevin Spacey"

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[Blymie]

Don't watch any more, I beg you.

Watching a TV show about your profession, is like watching teaching videos which are designed to teach you how to do everything wrong.

These teaching videos are coupled with strange music, which convey emotion in places that no normal person would feel strong emotion. They portray professionals acting as drama queens, as children, incapable of performing their job.

This is quite literally part of the problem with modern society. Heck, want to marry living hell? Marry a chick that watches soaps.

Stay away. If you are in law, especially a law student, STAY AWAY from law TV shows.

Stay away.

You can thank the Jews for destroying your country

[Anonymous Coward]

"With over 170 languages spoken in the US alone,"
Oh yes, what a great success 'diversity' is.

After all, we can't have white people being allowed to have their OWN countries any more, can we! The T.V. said so!

Do any of you have a good reason why white people should have to watch their countries, which THEY built, being invaded by millions of third worlders?

Does it handle drugs?

[dejanc]

This seems very useful for multi-ethnic countries. In USA everybody is sort of expected to learn English (though many people never do, or at least not good enough to be able to communicate their medical history). In other parts of the world, people with different native languages coexist in same countries or even same towns and villages, and none are expected to have a good grasp of the local majority language.

Does it handle drugs though? To be fully useful for tourists or recent immigrants, it should hold a database of world drugs. Apart from some over-the-counter drugs, most medication differs from country to country and doctors really should know what sort of medication their patience take.

So the American version can say..

[ibsteve2u]

"Do you have insurance or will you be paying cash?" in 170 languages?

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[Blymie]

No!!

Correalation does not imply causation!

It is imperitive that you throw off the shackles of peer pressure. More horror has been thrust upon the world due to peer pressure, than anything .. even religion.

You should not have a care in the world about what your fellow man thinks about your actions. Certainly, you need to define and live by a moral code, but hell.. in most cases peer pressure is the opposite of that.

Being moral is NOT a popularity contest!

Why not educate instead?

[Barryke]

Why not do the same thing the rest of the world is seemingly capable of, and educate people to be apt in more than their native tongue?

A perspective:
"All over the world children receive foreign language education at an early age. In 2002 the EU member states signed the ‘Treaty of Barcelona’, thereby stating their intention to start foreign language education in primary school at the earliest possible age. " - http://www.earlybirdie.nl/english

Re:Why not educate instead?

[cloudmaster]

Because the rest of the world learns English. We just start with English to begin with. ;)

Gokubi or Mandarax?

[gratuitous_arp]

So, is it called Gokubi or have they upgraded to Mandarax?

Interoperable with EMRs my ass

[Saerko]

I call bullshit on the interoperability with most EMRs. Most likely, this thing is just putting HL7 wrappers around some basic ADT info and dumping it into the system, which may or may not have interfaces built to actually use that information. Even if it does, a lot of it will probably come over as free text plopped into some arbitrary field, or worse--will require the hospital/health system using it to direct that information somewhere using eGate or a like technology. This is the sort of thing that healthcare IT shops hate with a passion. It's yet another device we have to support that uses the interfaces that are already unreliable and doesn't put data where we really want it, which is within the clinical documentation that's custom-built at EVERY HOSPITAL IN THE UNITED STATES. Believe me--I'm working weekends right now trying to get an "out of the box" clinical documentation system up, and "out of the box" went "out of the window" about six months ago. I'd rather use that 12-18 grand (plus whatever would be budgeted for making it actually work with the EMR) to send my clinical staff to basic medical translation classes for the languages we see most commonly.

Just Use Google Translate or something

[TheoMurpse]

My wife is a surgical resident. While she speaks a number of languages such that she has not had a language barrier problem, one of her coworkers only knows English. He has something on his iPhone (IIRC, one of the Google apps + the ability to have the iPhone read things out loud + the iPhone's voice recognition) that he uses. Apparently it works quite well. He speaks into it in English, it translates to Spanish, and the iPhone speaks the Spanish. His patient can speak Spanish into it, translate to English, and so on.

For simple things like "where does it hurt?" or "have you had any diarrhea?" it is reported to work well for him.

Re:Just Use Google Translate or something

[ColdWetDog]

You might tell your wife's friend that, at least for US hospitals, they are federally mandated to have translation services available at all times. Most places use the AT&T medical translation system where you punch in an 800 number, key in a PIN and then tell the operator which two languages you want. You can use a cell phone, you can use it anywhere you have telephone connectivity.

I know a lot of places that don't want to advertise the service since it costs money, but they're really supposed to tell people about it.

Re:Just Use Google Translate or something

[nickruiz]

My wife is a surgical resident. While she speaks a number of languages such that she has not had a language barrier problem, one of her coworkers only knows English. He has something on his iPhone (IIRC, one of the Google apps + the ability to have the iPhone read things out loud + the iPhone's voice recognition) that he uses. Apparently it works quite well. He speaks into it in English, it translates to Spanish, and the iPhone speaks the Spanish. His patient can speak Spanish into it, translate to English, and so on.

For simple things like "where does it hurt?" or "have you had any diarrhea?" it is reported to work well for him.

I am doing research in this kind of machine translation. Unfortunately, it is not ready for widespread use in medical offices at this point in time and can invite lawsuits. Usually translation systems need to be trained to a specific domain (medical, business, etc), because there are many ambiguities in translation. The typical (and state-of-the-art) approach is statistical machine translation, but it still suffers some flaws, because decoding has a running time in NP. There are many heuristics that are used now to speed up translation, but they don't guarantee a perfect (or correct) translation. While MT has made a lot of progress over the past few years, it's going to take some time to prove its accuracy before it is used in a place where a misdiagnosis (or a misinterpreted diagnosis) can invite a lawsuit.

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[nedlohs]

Why?

House is still pretty good TV, Hugh Laurie makes up for a lot of short comings in other areas. Of course that's a matter of taste and many people disagree but it's pretty much independant of it being realistic.

it's not supposed to be realistic, it is after all a TV show. CSI isn't realistic either, nor is White Collar. House isn't about the medicine, it's about the characters. Just like West Wing wasn't about the runnings of Government but about the characters.

Yes if you treat House as a teaching video for Medicine you'll do exactly as well as if you used Blackadder Foes Forth as a teaching video for the army.

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you may have misunderstood House, the show. Maybe you didn't watch enough episodes; however, the show does change a bit over the seasons so maybe you watched the wrong ones.

House talks to his patients as little as possible because his doctors do it for him, and besides medicine he's also brilliant at understanding human behaviour. But his underlings do more than relay symptoms. They come up with many/most of the diagnoses to test.

His approach to medicine isn't supposed to be what makes him a good doctor, he just does it better than everyone. Other doctors are portrayed as also testing their own multiple diagnoses, especially in the later episodes where he's forced to work with them more often.

And contrary to what the GP said, House doesn't run every test until he finds the solution, he actually skips many simple and effective tests that would answer some question of his, and runs many pointless ones instead. Doctors should not watch that show unless they like soap opera. But I don't know how anyone is supposed to reconcile a writer's intent (brilliant doctor) with the way something is written (mediocre/incompetent doctor).

Spyware

[Ponyote]

While I know this sounds silly, I am 99% certain that the linked website has some significant malicious content. While surfing this website (again, 99% certain, given what happened next) I was prompted to allow a download from a .cc domain. I declined. Repeatedly. Moments later, after finishing the article and closing the tab (Win XP, Desktop, IE 8, McAfee Corporate edition antivirus) I received a systray popup regarding infection. I waited, thinking that McAfee would swat it post haste. After a bit more browsing of this wonderful site and articles from the last 24 hours (thus the 1% uncertainty) all non-IE applications were force closed and my desktop wallpaper was replaced by a lovely warning about how my computer had possibly been compromised. I snapped the following shot with my android phone, called IT and shut down my desktop. image of desktop: https://picasaweb.google.com/chaotral/Public#5578430686634980466 Just a bit of a heads up there. Thanks for listening!

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[Opportunist]

Well. I enjoy watching The IT Crowd.

Maybe because I did actually at one point in my life work for a company that was not too different from Raynholm Industries. Like, I guess, everyone. It was not AS over the top, and we did actually work from time to time. But else... the condescension, the IT gadgets, the characters, even the pranks... It's almost a documentary.

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[dwillden]

Yes, but can your "Cell Phone" thingie do all that and cost the hospital 12-18k pop?

God call doc. Nothing like a new massively overpriced gadget to drive health care costs up even more.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[painehope]

The ability to figure out a means to communicate effectively with those around you is a good sign of intelligence. Intelligence is one of those key points which we should be selecting for in the evolution of the human race.

sounds pretty cheap to me

[OrangeTide]

cost less than an ambulance and could be as valuable for emergency medicine.

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[PCM2]

WTF??? How do you pick up diagnostic clues without having the patient warm up to you so you can understand the details of his/her illness in context?

Here's the deal:

• House M.D. was conceived as a medical take on the Sherlock Holmes concept. The lead character's name is House (as in "homes"). His best friend is Wilson (Watson). He resides at 221B Something-street. He doesn't treat patients, he solves medical mysteries.
• The genesis of the show was a series of essays that appeared in the New Yorker, called "Annals of Medicine," which presented unusual and often striking medical cases. Several of these cases have been directly adapted into House episodes.
• In real life, there really aren't that many diseases that will take you from a slight cough to death in 48 hours without obvious supporting symptoms, which is why the medicine in many of the episodes seems less than plausible (they're short on ideas).
• The first season was very good. The second was also good. The show has declined from there, to where most episodes these days concentrate more on the soap opera aspect than the medicine.
• It's still more interesting than a lot of soap opera shows, because they tend to concentrate on the negative aspects of human personalities. Not just House, but everyone on his team has profound personality flaws. So do most of the patients. The real focus of the show (at least as they write it now) is often not on how the patient is cured, but how they react to their ailment and the decisions they make, which they often seem to make for ignoble or misguided reasons.

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[PCM2]

Oh -- and one of the central themes of the show (and how they get away with House having his unusual diagnostic approach), is that House believes it doesn't matter how much you "warm up" to your patients, because everybody lies, and the more critical the condition, the bigger the lies. So the classic example is the wife who keeps concealing information and giving red herrings because it turns out she got her disease by sleeping with her husband's best friend.

The Multilingual Paradox

[dorpus]

When speaking to a non-English speaker, they become all respectful and agreeable if you talk to them in English. But if you go through the trouble of learning their language, then their attitude becomes more disrespectful, and they get all mad when you do not act exactly like one of their kind. I've been brought up bilingual, but I say what's the point? It hasn't led to great jobs or any of the other hype that schools would have us believe. (And I am not anti-education, I am getting a PhD in a technical topic.)

Re:Yeah, what's with the hype about House MD anywa

[Silvermistshadow]

Trauma was a pretty good EMS drama while it lasted. My father is an EMT himself, so he could tell that it tried to be fairly accurate.

Techies

[Anonymous Coward]

Now if they could only port it over to tech support in India...

Medical Language

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why we should learn Latin

Re:Call me an asshole...

[jack2000]

You see, that's the problem with brand names for pharmaceuticals. It's plain stupid. All drugs should be referred to by the main ingredient( it's already on the packaging but it should be the main thing about their names) Not some marketing bullshit designed to appeal to people.

Re:Make English an Official Language?

[Foobar of Borg]

Being moral is NOT a popularity contest!

True enough, but it's not like America is unpopular because they help everyone out. America's unpopularity has something to do with bombs. Lots and lots of bombs. Oh, and assassinating democratically elected leaders and then setting up puppet dictatorships in order to prop up corporate profits. That tends to be both immoral and a wee bit unpopular.

Holy wall of text, Batman!

[Hognoxious]

tl; dr.

I see you have the famous German sense of humor.

P.S. What's with the curly brackets, you ridiculous pissbag?

Re:Holy wall of text, Batman!

[painehope]

The brackets are called "nested comments", to differentiate them from the ones in the "(" or the "[" section, you ignorant fuck. I'm surprised even you needed them explained.