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100% Libre, Trisquel 4.5 STS 'Slaine' Released

Posted by timothy on from the good-enough-for-rms dept.

Aldenissin writes "Trisquel 4.5 Slaine comes with a new boot manager for the live images, an improved installer which showcases the project highlights, and new programs like the Remmina remote desktop client, the social network client Gwibber or the backup tool Deja-dup. The web browser received several changes to improve attributes like speed by enabling http pipelining and other methods, privacy with blocking third party cookies and moving to Duck Duck Go search engine — both as default, and usability with the preinstalled FlashVideoReplacer plugin that allows watching videos from YouTube, Vimeo and many others. The main packages include: Linux-libre 2.6.35, Xorg 7.5, GNOME 2.32, Mozilla based web browser 3.6.15 and OpenOffice.org 3.2. Slaine is based on Ubuntu 10.10, and as always with Trisquel, it contains just free software. Available are 32 and 64 bit flavors, and being an STS release it will be supported for a year. This release will be the "live" operating system included in the Free Software Foundation member cards from now on, in replacement of Trisquel 4.0."

207 comments

  1. Uh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What?

    1. Re:Uh by 19thNervousBreakdown · · Score: 1

      Is that English?

      --
      <xml><I><am><so><damn>Web 2.0</damn></so></am></I></xml>
    2. Re:Uh by Goaway · · Score: 0

      Five reasons why no normal person cares about Free Software:

      * "Trisquel"
      * "Slaine"
      * "Remmina"
      * "Gwibber"
      * "Deja-dup"

    3. Re:Uh by CyberDragon777 · · Score: 1

      The funny thing is:

      Mozilla based web browser 3.6.15

      They have funky names for every piece of software, yet they won't tell you what the browser is called?

      --
      We both said a lot of things that you are going to regret.
    4. Re:Uh by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Actually Ruben's primary language is Spanish, as he is from Spain.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    5. Re:Uh by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      It's called, get this.. "Web Browser". I know, I know, but hey, you do remember "Internet Explorer" don't you?

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    6. Re:Uh by node+3 · · Score: 1

      Its real name wasn't odd enough, so mentioning 'Mozilla' had to suffice.

    7. Re:Uh by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Actually, it would be called Firefox if they could. But it is some license or trademark issue. But you can install firefox extensions and other addons.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    8. Re:Uh by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      Is there some reason that reviews on slashdot like this never reveal what the product is? It's always something like "Slarpfest now improved with 20% more slurm!" WHY SHOULD WE CARE!

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    9. Re:Uh by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      This isn't a review? It is a summary of a release announcement? If you don't understand what it is by any of the details in the summary, perhaps it isn't for you.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    10. Re:Uh by SnarfQuest · · Score: 1

      Review? Summary? Announcement? Who cares what it is, as long as we get 20% more slurm!

      --
      Who would win this election: Andrew Weiner vs Andrew Weiner's weiner.
    11. Re:Uh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you can only call it firefox and use its logo if you do not patch it...

      one single patch and you lose the right to use the trademark.

      that's actually the reason why debian calls it "iceweasel"...

    12. Re:Uh by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      If you don't care about slurm, then why are you here?

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    13. Re:Uh by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      He thinks I wasn't being courteous, what a typical AC.... I do believe that those in open source have infinite more patience than proprietary people. They make it far more clear what you are getting, why they even give you the source code! He knew what it was, and my point still stands, if he didn't, then it obviously isn't for him. My computer illiterate father would know what it is by the summary.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  2. what the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I didn't understand half the nouns in that article.

    1. Re:what the fuck? by geekmux · · Score: 1

      I didn't understand half the nouns in that article.

      Man, thank goodness I'm not the only one. I was just about ready to surrender my geek card. Which member of the Borg wrote that article?

    2. Re:what the fuck? by Culture20 · · Score: 1

      It took me several seconds to realize it was a Linux distro.

    3. Re:what the fuck? by Aldenissin · · Score: 3, Funny

      The author wrote it, and then I butchered it for Slashdot consumption. Resistance is futile.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    4. Re:what the fuck? by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Wow, congrats, you win! Sometimes I read articles and I leave never knowing what it was, sometimes even after visiting the site. Ok, that was like only 1-2 times in like 8-9 years.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    5. Re:what the fuck? by node+3 · · Score: 1, Troll

      I dunno, the fact that the names were so strange made it obvious it was open source, that there were so many strange names together alluded to it being a Linux distro, and that the names were presented as though everyone should know what they are pointed towards it being GNU.

      By the time you get to the end, where they actually point all of this out, the explanation ends up being redundant, almost like a Zen parable.

    6. Re:what the fuck? by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Yea, that was all my fault. It was late when I submitted it.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    7. Re:what the fuck? by davester666 · · Score: 1

      Thank you for continuing in a long line of great butchers that have come before you here at Slashdot.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    8. Re:what the fuck? by der_joachim · · Score: 1

      I didn't understand half the nouns in that article.

      Heh. Me neither. That's why I read the article in the first place. :-)

      --
      Geek runner, motorcyclist and professional know-it-all
    9. Re:what the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only reason I am here today is because I recognized the word 'Trisquel' in the summary as a very characteristic local symbol of my birthplace (Spanish north coast) Thus I was attracted by local news in the same way as when I heard that Fernando Alonso was world champion, of something.

      Otherwise I would never go further than that cryptic summary. What is everybody else's excuse?

    10. Re:what the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just intended to get in here to post "I didn't understand anything of that!" and found that several people beat me to it.

      So, yeah. That pretty much looked like a random cluster of words and acronyms.

    11. Re:what the fuck? by jsprenkle · · Score: 1

      Made all this up. Just to screw with people.

      --
      - I've got bad karma because I won't parrot everyone else's opinion
    12. Re:what the fuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Slaine is based on Ubuntu 10.10, and as always with Trisquel, it contains just free software"

      I still don't get what Trisquel is.

      PS

      My captcha is "stupid" (http://img51.imageshack.us/i/skrmbildjh.png/) so I guess don't bother replying.

    13. Re:what the fuck? by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      They don't make the geeks they used to :)

      > "Trisquel 4.5 Slaine...
      could be whatever. probably mature (see version minor #)

      > ...comes with a new boot manager for the live images, an improved installer which showcases the project highlights...

      Something that boots live images and installs? it's an OS

      >... and new programs like the Remmina remote desktop client, the social network client Gwibber or the backup tool Deja-dup. The web browser received several changes to improve attributes like speed by enabling http pipelining and other methods, privacy with blocking third party cookies and moving to Duck Duck Go search engine — both as default, and usability with the preinstalled FlashVideoReplacer plugin that allows watching videos from YouTube, Vimeo and many others.

      never heard of any of those programs, but i know what a remote desktop client or a backup tool is...

      > The main packages include: Linux-libre 2.6.35

      so it's linux

      > Xorg 7.5, GNOME 2.32, Mozilla based web browser 3.6.15 and OpenOffice.org 3.2. Slaine is based on Ubuntu 10.10, and as always with Trisquel, it contains just free software. Available are 32 and 64 bit flavors, and being an STS release it will be supported for a year. This release will be the "live" operating system included in the Free Software Foundation member cards from now on, in replacement of Trisquel 4.0.

      so it's ubuntu based.STS reminds me of ubuntu LTS, so possibly S is for short. It is included in member cards, so the FSF gives it away to member (it would be cool if it did in card sized CDs. I recall about a 1gb usb drive that was shaped like a credit card, that would be cool too.

      So, nothing really really difficult huh?

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    14. Re:what the fuck? by osu-neko · · Score: 1

      So, nothing really really difficult huh?

      Pfft. Well, yeah, if you read the entire summary rather than just the first line or two -- but honestly, who does that?

      --
      "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies."
    15. Re:what the fuck? by multisync · · Score: 1

      So, nothing really really difficult huh?

      Yeah, I thought the GNU icon kinda gave it away too.

      Mind you, I agree with the general sentiment that it wouldn't kill submitters and editors to at least consider the posibility that some people may need a bit of background information on the subject at hand. But that would require a bit more effort that simply copy/pasting a couple paragraphs from the article and hitting submit.

      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    16. Re:what the fuck? by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      Same here -- this one's as bad as half the game-theme ones, assuming that the reader is intimately familiar with all manner of obscure shit.

    17. Re:what the fuck? by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      The project lead and founder is from North Spain.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    18. Re:what the fuck? by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      jspenkle, didn't you go to my highschool? Remember Rick got left on the bus and you had to chase it down so his dog wouldn't get upset? And then you rode the principal home like a horse? Good times.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  3. Ok by bball99 · · Score: 0

    i've been dealing w/this free software crap since '93, and this 'l33t sp33k' is getting ridiculous - you twits!

    1. Re:Ok by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whole-heartedly agree ...? I Read the summary, and still have no idea WTF this story is about.

      Now I know what chicks feel like when I talk about Star Wars.

  4. Um... by MrEricSir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So on Slashdot we have to tell people who Alan Turing was, but we can just randomly spout off the names of (what I'm assuming to be) little known software packages?

    Come on, guys.

    --
    There's no -1 for "I don't get it."
    1. Re:Um... by thryllkill · · Score: 1

      So on Slashdot we have to tell people who Alan Turing was, but we can just randomly spout off the names of (what I'm assuming to be) little known software packages?

      Come on, guys.

      Alan Turing was the gay guy in Cryptonomicon, right?

      --

      Note to self: No more arguing with the faithful.

    2. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought it was April 1 already.

    3. Re:Um... by denshao2 · · Score: 2

      I have been using Linux for years and never heard of this distro. It's not even in the top 100 according to Distrowatch.

    4. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      It is one endorsed by the FSF and GNU foundations. It is 100% libre, and if I may say so the most user friendly. Being based on Ubuntu probably helps. It is also very nice looking as well.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    5. Re:Um... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      I volunteered for a free software event. We were supposed to hand out Trisquel CDs and I did that but I also suggested people pick up a free copy of ubuntu from across the room and try that too.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    6. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      It is based on Ubuntu, but 100% libre.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    7. Re:Um... by Osty · · Score: 1

      if I may say so the most user friendly

      You may say so, but that doesn't make it true. Care to back it up with facts, or at least anecdotal evidence? Note that being 100% "libre" (or "free", as the rest of us say) means that many wifi adapters simply will not work, you can say goodbye to any decent GPU hardware acceleration, and more.

    8. Re:Um... by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      Sure but I would recommend ubuntu for a non-technical person. Its not going to further the goals of free software to give them Trisquel.

      --
      http://michaelsmith.id.au
    9. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 3, Informative

      OK, how is this for anecdotal evidence. I have tried or looked at all of the 100$ libre versions, and if they seem to offered an English version, then I tried them. Only 2 stand out, Trisquel and gNewSense. gNewSense has not been updated in awhile, and is based on an older version of Ubuntu than Trisquel. Trisquel seems from experience to have a lot more thought put into it other than just removing proprietary blobs from the kernel and software and repos. The layout is well done, and is not just a new wallpaper and color scheme. In fact, I don't hardly notice it since it just seems to work so well. Unlike with even Ubuntu 10.10, which I have honestly had issues with about once a week. Not so with Trisquel 4.5, and that was while it was in Beta. The only real issue I remember having was with Youtube videos, and that was quickly corrected.

      As far as wifi adapters, there are those that it will work with and are likely easily replaceable. This is not a libre issue only, as Linux has been dealing with this for years... As far as the GPU acceleration, I wanted to keep the summary size down. But as mentioned on the release page: "One of the exciting improvements for this release is the availability of an experimental Nouveau driver for NVIDIA cards which allows for 3D acceleration using fully free software."

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    10. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      You might be surprised. AND, it is based on Ubuntu after all.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    11. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      100"%"...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    12. Re:Um... by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1

      ...it is based on Ubuntu after all.

      You're starting to sound like a broken record.

    13. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      True, I should have said that it seems easier than vanilla Ubuntu and the layout may be more familiar to users of other OS's. And that I've had less trouble with it than I have with Ubuntu, but I've also mentioned this above...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    14. Re:Um... by DrXym · · Score: 2

      If it's user friendly it's because it's ubuntu with minimal changes. And those changes are retrograde - removing branding & drivers which means the dist works on less hardware. Perhaps that increases the dist's appeal to masochists who don't want their graphics card to work very well. To pragmatists, not so much.

    15. Re:Um... by timbo234 · · Score: 2

      As far as wifi adapters, there are those that it will work with and are likely easily replaceable. This is not a libre issue only, as Linux has been dealing with this for years...

      This statement makes no sense. I can tell you from bitter experience that if a wifi driver in Linux requires a binary blob it's for a bloody good reason - it simply won't work otherwise. And wifi cards are not easily, and usually not at all, replaceable in laptops and netbooks.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    16. Re:Um... by maxume · · Score: 1

      Everyone's pragmatic, they just have different ideas about what that means.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    17. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      You know, it never occurred to me that if it was required, it wouldn't work otherwise. Imagine that.
      Well, if you can't help but buy locked in hardware that isn't upgradable, then be happy with what you have I guess. Linux has not been able to get binary blobs for years, much less a free driver for a lot of hardware. In the last few years many manufacturers have come around, and the free driver availability has also increased.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    18. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Well, since you already know what it is before trying it... guess you should have submitted this.
      We do want our video cards to work. And we can use others help, by showing there is a demand. Don't use it, and you won't as quickly get free drivers. Don't have free drivers, and you get only what the vendors want to give, even it is a crappy job. And you likely know they have before.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    19. Re:Um... by timbo234 · · Score: 1

      As I said above, in laptops and netbooks you can't choose your wifi hardware. It's not a simple matter of replacing a non-free driver with a free one or replacing your wifi hardware.

      In your distro most laptops and netbooks will not have working wifi.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    20. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How might we be surprised? That argument is very hand wavy in that it isn't specific to anything. I could have told you that pigs can't fly and you could have (just as illegitimately) responded "You might be surprised." What, exactly, do you mean?

    21. Re:Um... by TheTurtlesMoves · · Score: 1

      I do get free drivers for all my nvidia cards... Oh you mean the other free... Yea well the other free driver for this ATi card in a laptop i have inherited is completely crap. I will continue to buy nvidia products when i have a choice- because i can get a working, and free drivers for them.

      --
      The Grey Goo disaster happened 3 billion years ago. This rock is covered in self replicating machines!
    22. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You may say so, but that doesn't make it true. Care to back it up with facts, or at least anecdotal evidence? Note that being 100% "libre" (or "free", as the rest of us say) means that many wifi adapters simply will not work, you can say goodbye to any decent GPU hardware acceleration, and more."

      Trisquel is one of the only completely "free" distros I would use--the other being BLAG (which is making a comeback). It works as well as any of the major distros, yet somehow--don't ask me how--it was one of the *only* distros to support the wireless card in my mom's laptop (the other being Pardus). This was actually quite amazing, because not even Ubuntu supported the wireless card. Ubuntu may have offered installing "restricted" drivers, I don't know, but what good is that gonna do if you don't have an Ethernet cable connected or easily accessible? This was quite a long time ago, when wireless was even worse than it is now (it seems to be getting gradually better). The version I tested was Trisquel 2.2 IIRC.

      I tried installing Debian just recently on my mom's computer and for some reason it failed for different reasons every single time (I blame the shitty computer, I've never really had a problem with my two machines) so I instead tried installing Trisquel 4.01. Once again, wireless worked. Webcam worked with no extra configuring. The all-in-one printer/scanner was all that needed setting up, and Canon had a printer driver on their site which works. The scanner part doesn't work though.

    23. Re:Um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So it's Ubuntu with bits missing and broken hardware support. Fantastic!

    24. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      You can replace some laptop cards. As I said above, most laptops had not working wifi with Linux for years. Give it time. It isn't the disto's fault, it is that of those that don't want to release specs so that they can control you.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    25. Re:Um... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Good idea.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    26. Re:Um... by DrXym · · Score: 1
      If I bought a car which worked great and someone offered me a replacement car, the same model, except they've painted over the logos and replaced the radio with a crystal receiver then no I wouldn't want to take them up on the offer. Even if they told me how evil my car was for using some part or another.

      This is the problem with libre dists based on commercial / pragmatic ones. You're gimping a perfectly functional dist and you get miffed that people don't see the point of it or don't want to swap what they have.

      As for free drivers, yes I'd like open source drivers but in the absence of them, I'll take proprietary drivers any day. I don't have an issue with putting pressure on NVidia & AMD to release sources at least for their obsolete hardware ranges. I don't have an issue with alternative drivers like Nouveau. In the absence of a drive any driver is useful. However that doesn't mean I'm going to gimp my hardware for politics when there is a choice.

    27. Re:Um... by Sancho · · Score: 1

      Two counter-examples: The Dell Mini-10 (netbook) has a very accessible mini-pci slot for the wifi card. The Alienware m11x has a slightly less accessible one (in that you have to unscrew 8 screws instead of 2.)

  5. Gonna be totally honest here... by Yosho · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The only word in the summary that I recognise is "Release", but I can guess what "Libre" means. I don't know why you can't just use "free."

    Otherwise, could you please give some indication of what the hell this is? I even tried searching Slashdot's archives for other articles with "Trisquel" in them, and this is the only one. Should we have any idea what this is?

    --
    Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
    1. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The only word in the summary that I recognise is "Release", but I can guess what "Libre" means.

      It comes with OpenOffice 3.2, so it must be a different Libre than in LibreOffice.

    2. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by /dev/trash · · Score: 1

      Because it can be 'free' as in source, but still cost money to download.

    3. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by agrif · · Score: 5, Informative

      The only word in the summary that I recognise is "Release", but I can guess what "Libre" means. I don't know why you can't just use "free."?

      In the open source community (and most of the larger computer nerd metacommunity) the term free software has a very specific meaning. Unfortunately, the english word free has two different meanings: free as in freedom, and free as in beer, as it's usually put. To anyone not in the know, free software is just software that can be obtained at no cost.

      Using the words libre and gratis clarifies what you're talking about, and though it may not be a particularly useful distinction on slashdot, it's often used elsewhere. Most people can guess what they mean even if they've never heard them used in this context, because gratis is often used to say "this costs nothing", while libre sounds a lot like liberty.

    4. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by larry+bagina · · Score: 2

      You know what else sounds a lot like liberty? Liberty.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    5. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Mod parent up! That is exactly why libre is used. When you have big companies using the word free, but not in the context normally used or even free as in gratis, then you have to use a different word.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    6. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Yea, but when you here libre, you are pretty sure you are talking about software now, and a specific kind too.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    7. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no idea where "Libre" crept into things, but it seems to be a part of the nonsense "FLOSS" acronym that has been so popular to spout around here. What the hell does "Free/Libre" mean? That's as bad as "Built with NT Technology" (New Technology Technology?)

      Free is good enough. We don't need French to make it sound "more free than free."

    8. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Free sounds like it is being given away and that is all that it means, which causes confusion. Microsoft gives away "free software" (as in cost or gratis) all the time, but I wouldn't want it. In reality, it means freedom. It is for clarification and distinction.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    9. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      I think it was an upstream related decision. Easily changed at will once installed though.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    10. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      &^%&^%*&^%*&! Then fricking say FREEDOM already! Jesus tap dancing Christ on a stick WTF?! Is it not bad enough the FLOSSies gotta come up with the absolute WORST names for software in the history of the world, now you gotta start sticking in French too?

      Is making things sound NICE or FRIENDLY against the bylaws or something? I mean Trisquel? Sounds like something you use to clear up a yeast infection. Good Lord man, is there not a single marketing guy in the entire damned organization?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    11. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "A new piece of FREEDOM software" just doesn't have the same ring. Most people know that libre means something along the lines of "having liberty."

      And you could call it Spanish, if you're not as bigoted against them.

    12. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 2

      No, we do it to troll you. Thanks for feeding us.

      But seriously, I think libre has been around since before France. When you say "freedom" you want to just shorten it to free, as it has been done until libre started to be used. Trisquel is from the Celtics who used to live where the project lead and founder is from. Very beautiful scenery there, and some of the houses are a couple thousand years old. And not, he does almost it all, design, compiling, website. Darn good job in that context. Many of the names are used because they are fun and silly in free software. You don't often forget them, and that is marketing gold there.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    13. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If somebody came up to me and said, "Use this software, it's libre, but it's not gratis!" I would almost certainly punch them in the cock. Hard.

      Why? Because that phrase is absolutely indicative of someone who is an obnoxious, pedantic twat; someone who is more concerned with trying to sound oh-so-very-clever than they are concerned with, you know, helping me address the problems I have whose solutions require the use of a computer.

      Now come here so I can neuter you with my fist.

    14. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by agrif · · Score: 1

      Yes. That would be dumb! Telling people about how great free software is when they don't care is the worst thing to do to help the free software movement, as it's about the worst thing you can do for any idea. It'd be like telling someone "my phone is jailbroken!" when all they want to do is borrow it to make a quick call.

      But when you're talking about free to people who do care (like, say, some slashdotters), it's useful to distinguish between the two very different definitions of free. Some software is neither, some is one but not the other, and some is both, and these distinctions matter if you're someone who cares about these things.

    15. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But when you're talking about free to people who do care (like, say, some slashdotters), it's useful to distinguish between the two very different definitions of free. Some software is neither, some is one but not the other, and some is both, and these distinctions matter if you're someone who cares about these things.

      -- Most slashdotters are not as stupid as you'd like to imagine them to be. In fact, they are probably some of the only people in the world who will understand what you mean when you say "this is free software."

      -- Describing something as "libre" doesn't really help us understand what it is anyway, as the licensing terms - GPLv2? GPLv3? Apache? BSD? LGPL? Some other "Free" license? - are what really matters to the people who "care about these sorts of things." Hell, the MS-PL and MS-RL licenses are both regarded as "free" by the OSI & FSF, yet there's some significant difference between all of these different licensing schemes.

      The use of "libre" is just stupid. It's used by self-important neckbeards who want to make themselves sound clever and "cutting edge". The people who are reading about "Triscuit Slab Humina-Humina-Humina Dwimmer 4.5 STS (based on Zesty Zygote!)" already know what "free" software entails, and understand that there are multiple possible meanings for that term; The people who don't know what "free software" entails will be NO MORE enlightened by the use of "libre" than they would have been by the use of "free".

    16. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by agrif · · Score: 1

      I... uh... was not aware I though slashdotters were stupid? Huh. Sorry if it came off that way :D

      Free software isn't ambiguous to a slashdotter, but you can probably see how "100% Free, Trisquel 4.5 STS 'Slaine' Released" is a more ambiguous headline than "100% Libre, Trisquel 4.5 STS 'Slaine' Released". The headline is horrible because nobody knows what Trisquel is, but by using libre you immediately know it's about free software. For people who haven't heard it used before, well, as you said, slashdotters are a smart crowd. It's an easy association.

    17. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Oh please! It is elitist smug ass developer bullshit and you KNOW it! If it was "marketing gold" your ass wouldn't be lower than fricking Win2K on the usage scale, now would you? I mean when you fricking have to brag you got 1% (woo hoo, we're really cooking now!) you should SERIOUSLY be asking yourselves "What am I doing wrong that my competitors are doing right?"

      But of course THAT will never happen, because then you'd have to get off your smug ass high horse and admit you have some serious problems here, the elitist bullshit just one problem among many. I mean when the head of your core development team, Mr Linus Torvalds himself, admits "Linux isn't designed, it grows like a virus" yeah its called the clap, I mean WTF? No wonder your damned drivers break every damned upgrade with this clown running the show! Can you imagine going to your boss on a lead project and telling him "We don't need a plan, it'll just grow like a virus LOL!"? Enjoy your firing.

      Get rid of the ass clowns like Torvalds, hire some damned marketing people and STOP NAMING THINGS STUPID SHIT and maybe you'd have a shot. Because nobody is gonna take the FLOSS seriously with all these fucked up names,same as nobody will take FLOSS as a desktop seriously until the 6 month update death march stops breaking half the drivers every damned time!

      I mean seriously fellas, it isn't 1987 you know, time to stop acting like fools and get your shit together. Hell even OS/2 has a stable driver ABI now, and the dumbass names just make you look Mickey Mouse, or should I say GNUMouse? You better get it together quick, as iOS is a fricking Juggernaut and Win 7 is kicking royally on the desktop. All that leaves is Android which Google is about to royally screw you out of by "TiVo tricking" it away, thanks to them making DAMNED SURE they don't touch any GPL V3, so all that leaves is cheap web hosts and HPCs, not exactly high growth markets.

      But hey, if you enjoy being dead last that is your business, but don't say you weren't warned. You may think those fucked up names are cute but the rest of the world just thinks your weird and avoids you.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    18. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You may think those fucked up names are cute but the rest of the world just thinks your weird and avoids you."

      Yep. Feels awkward to introduce to other people.

    19. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by westlake · · Score: 1

      In the open source community (and most of the larger computer nerd metacommunity) the term free software has a very specific meaning.

      It is rather a pity though that nerd speech is wholly untelligible to anyone else.

    20. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the dumbass names just make you look Mickey Mouse

      From a guy posting as "hairyfeet". You win.

    21. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been reading your comments for years, and though you're consistently against FLOSS, you're usually more polite. Unix (and linux by extension) has never cared about the desktop: in the early days of Wintel, they didn't even care about x86.

      Also, you say 1% of the desktop, I say Unix is the most popular and prevalent OS in history.

      Robert Metcalf [the inventor of Ethernet] says that if something comes along to replace Ethernet, it will be called “Ethernet”, so therefore Ethernet will never die. Unix has already undergone several such transformations. - Ken Thompson, quoted here:
      http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch01s02.html

      I don't really think it's elitist to say that software developers might use computers differently, or to say that Windows has serious design flaws. You're also doing this funny thing where you talk like Android, Mac OSX, and iOS aren't all unixes---when I'm hacking any of them, I use the same commands. Makes it pretty easy. From this perspective, the only thing going down hard is Microsoft. Do you really want to bet on which will still be around in 50 years, Windows or Unix? I'm betting on the entire desktop metaphor being dead by then.

      The naming conventions are indeed retarded. Software developers don't seem to have any talents for presentation.

    22. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Megane · · Score: 1

      I think he means "marketing gold" in the context of "That's gold, Jerry! Gold!". Or at least I hope he does.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    23. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Yes, I get up in the morning trying to sound clever, more than someone who likes to punch people in their cock, hard.

      Those that advocate free software are trying to help you address problems, and even ones you apparently don't even know about, or care, since you are so busy on your cock crusade.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    24. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Thank you for showing why why FLOSSies STILL don't "get it". So fricking what if you are using the same 70s era term shit when you "hack" Ohh boy hacky hacky. Know what? A good 99.9996% of the world will NEVER touch that shit, not in a million damned years!

      As for why I'm not nicer about it, I'm sick of dealing with crazy people. lets just get it out in the open, FLOSSies have done gone right past the bend in to "personhole covers" level of self denial batshit PC loonie toonie land. Hell look at your own post, the survival of an OS is based on whether or not some fat unshaved developer or not stick in some old Unix commands "just because thats how the other did it" or as a homage or something? Please tell me that is just your idea of a fucking joke, and you haven't gone that completely batshit crazy yet, because if it isn't a joke get so damned help man!

      It is THIS, this right here, the turning of a simple little philosophy into Heaven's Gate style zombie religion that makes me can't stand you people. Yes I use Windows because it is currently the best tool for the job and before that OS/2 and before that Commodore, but you don't see me coming up with batshit conspiracy theories to explain how some ancient PEEK command means that "Commodore BASIC lives on!" and the fact that you in all seriousness even suggest this just shows why you people really need to get some fucking help. You've completely lost it, you KNOW this right?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    25. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Yea well, when I explained free to my 55 year old father, he didn't get it. Libre, he did and it helped him see the difference. He kept thinking it was gratis, so your are WRONG.

      Perhaps the whole thing isn't GPL, should I just list off the percentages of licenses, like 83% GPL, 3% LGPL, etc? No, I think Libre is easier and simpler for a summary.

      And actually you proved you were wrong in your first sentence, most will think you mean free as in beer. So are you stupid, or do you just have an agenda? Oh, an AC, well we know the answer.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    26. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      I bet you don't forget Trisquel. And you are right, we are against some deep pockets, of which you seem to want to join the bandwagon. I hope that works out well for you in the end...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    27. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Could it be because it doesn't have the deep pockets of Microsoft? And you are right, I am asking those questions, as are others.

      Of course there are problems, who doesn't have them? Like how to deal with elitests who think everyone else is since they use what is mainstream and others don't. As far as designed, that is what Hurd is. But you would probably bitch about how long it takes. Cheap, fast, good, pick two.

      The 6 month update is something that some distros do. Others don't, which causes other issues. Like MS and Apple don't have their's. Give me a break. There are lots of different names with proprietary software that is successful. I won't even bother to list any. Even Apple and Windows sounds weird in a way. You know what you sound like? A kid that is afraid to show off his new toy on the playground because it is called a Power Ranger or Pokemon because another kid might laugh. Grow up...

      Gained ground is gained ground. In 1983 most thought it'd never get this far...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    28. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by jimicus · · Score: 1

      While I don't think your tone is going to win over any admirers, you have a point. There seems to be some sort of disease - it happens in IT a fair bit, but F/OSS seems particularly vulnerable - whereby terminology is decided according to the following method:

      1. Decide what it is you're describing.

      2. Find an English word which has two meanings. One of which is what you're describing, the other meaning is quite different and not what you're driving at at all.

      Here's the important bit: the second meaning - the one you're not intending - should be far and away the most common meaning of the word when used colloquially and the term as a whole should make perfect sense regardless of which meaning is interpreted. For best results, this alternate meaning of the term should have pejorative overtones to a lay person.

      (Another word commonly abused in exactly this fashion is "Open", but at least "Open" may raise the question "What's open about it?". "Free" is going to result in assumptions).

      3. Spend half your life explaining to people what you mean. The other half you spend watching people walk away before they even give you a chance to explain because they think they know what you mean.

    29. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cock punching is more of a "dedication to sound principles" thing than it is clever, it's true.

      Doesn't change the fact that there is absolutely zero need to invent a new fucking word to describe "free" software. The people who care are already well aware of the distinction, and will simply ask, "what's the licensing then?" How bent out of shape will you be when somebody decides to use 'libre' in a way you don't like, and you have to invent YET ANOTHER word, because you're such a moronic pantywaist that you don't understand the concept of homonyms?

      Apparently you think it's easier to be so bound up with trying to invent a single word that carries an entire book's worth of history and meaning in it that you can't be bothered to actually communicate with people in a common language that they're already familiar with. And may we take your unintelligible summary to be a representative sample of this mode of communication?

    30. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The entire headline is garbage because it tries to pack an entire press release worth of information into 7 words. The use of 'libre' is just a part of the foolishness.

      "100% Libre" actually implies that it's "free" as in "unconstrained, but since no mention is made of the cost, the implication is that it's *not* "free" as in "zero cost," and that's simply false. It is "100% free," meaning that it uses licensing which the FSF certifies as fitting the definition of 'free software', AND that it is zero cost to acquire a copy of the software and run it.

      "100% Free" is both more clear, and more accurate. But because 'libre' sounds all fancy and stuff, apparently it's caught on as a buzzword here on slashdot, and we can't help but chant it whenever a mention of free software is made. Nothing like forking things to just completely muddy the waters and keep your arcane secrets impenetrable to the lay person, amirite?

    31. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really, and does your 55-year-old father also have trouble distinguishing between multiple meanings of the words tire, mouse, window, and shade? Or is it just "free" that throws him for such a loop?

      Perhaps the whole thing isn't GPL, should I just list off the percentages of licenses, like 83% GPL, 3% LGPL, etc? No, I think Libre is easier and simpler for a summary.

      Are LGPL and the multiple other "free" software licenses *less* than 100% free? They're all certified as "free" software licenses by the FSF, aren't they? And yet, they all have different terms - so what does "100% libre" (of "free") tell us anyway? Nothing, except that it fits some FSF definition of "free" software - and that meaning is already conveyed adequately by the use of the word "free", with no need to invent new words to sound clever.

      You want to know what would have made a great fucking headline? "Linux distribution Trisquel announces the release of a new version."

      The obvious response to that is, "Yeah, so what? Why do we care, and why is this news?" Which is a job for... the summary!

      The summary could then easily say, "The maintainers of the Trisquel distribution have announced the release of version 4.5, the 'Slaine' release. Trisquel, based on the Ubuntu distribution, is notable because it is one of a handful of FSF-certified free GNU/Linux distributions, and is dedicated to including only free software in the distribution - though you are, as always, free to install non-free software from other sources. For more information about the numerous updates and improvements in this release, you can visit their website (here) for screenshots and download a copy to try out today!"

      Stop writing unintelligible descriptions, and you will find that more people will understand what you are trying to say. YOU'RE WELCOME.

    32. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      Well good lord man, how do you talk nice to the batshit insane? I mean anything you say to them is gonna get you labeled by one of their "nasty" words like shill or astroturfer, hell the one that started this thread got labeled an astroturfer for saying WinPhone will bomb for everyone except WinDevelopers that already know how to code for it and will want to play with it. I mean seriously WTF?

      These people have gone so damned loonie toonie if every post isn't "M$ SUX DONKEY NUTZ!" it is labeled a shill! I mean how fucking batshit do you have to be when even the most backhanded of complements is considered a compliment? How isolated must your world view be if everything that isn't "FLOSS Yay, MSFT Boo!" is considered heresy?

      And I think the batshit naming is just a small symptom of the larger batshit disease that is spreading through FOSS. Hell look at a site like Linux TMs which was originally a bunch of Linux guys bitching about what is broken in Linux but has now been overrun by the true believers spam posting their "LOL Winblowz" leet speek bullshit. The sad part? Damned near every one of those Linux TMs is true because of the religious devotion of the totally batshit loonies that have adopted FLOSS as their lord and savior.

      So I'm sorry, but if there is one thing I've learned over the years it is bending over backwards to coddle loonies NEVER helps, be they religious loonies or fanboi loonies or political loonies, a loony is a loony is a loony. We used to have some damned heated but INTELLIGENT discussions here about tech. They were really really good and would really make you think. Now it is like religious cults that come out of their shrines to ignore ANY fact that may burst their worldview while freakishly devoting spew after spew to such complete and total bullshit that only a zealot would take any of it seriously!

      So from now on, and I urge my fellow /.ers to do this as well, is to point out the loonies whenever and wherever possible. Don't let the loonies grow and fester, stomp their loony asses into the ground. That goes for WinLoonies (Vista is low resource? yeah right!) MacLoonies (Steve Jobs isn't a control freak? Total bullshit!) and LinLoonies (Users will embrace the crazy names and trawling forums every 6 months to get their drivers to work? Horseshit!) because all that treat an OS as a religion is full of shit and the quicker everyone sees their eyes are brown the better.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    33. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by jimicus · · Score: 1

      Maybe you have a point. The people who treat software as a religion may or may not comprise the majority of developers, but they're certainly a major influencing force on a lot of F/OSS projects (including, I'm sad to say, projects which aren't terribly well known to the general public but nevertheless are important to the underlying system - as a result you wind up with fundamentally broken functionality). Possibly because they're the noisiest.

      The full list of insanity that's appeared in F/OSS development is far too long to discuss here - besides which, much of it's already discussed on that tmrepository site and I daresay you've heard it all or you wouldn't be posting like that.

      I'm reminded of "The God Delusion" - in which Dawkins argues that being nicey-nicey-politically-correct around religion allows it to continue to exist where it's been responsible for many atrocities in history, and instead we should be stamping it out with all force.

      Having said all that, there's more than one way to skin a cat and IME a "STFU you're wrong I'm right" tone tends to cement exactly the opposite view in the other person's mind. Which doesn't mean you can't contradict them or present them with a contrary worldview, it just means there are more effective ways to word it.

    34. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      free as in beer

      That's about be the stupidest way to "explain" what they mean that I can think of. Beer is free? Not usually; not where I come from, anyway. Also, the ingredients to beer are widely available, and can even be produced by oneself. What exactly, then, does "free as in beer" mean?

      I think the phrase should be changed to, "free as in AOL diskettes".

    35. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      If I'm coming off as STFU for the I apologize, I want them to spew the crazy as it will hopefully help to root it out! One of the sites I contribute to is "Linuxinsider' and you should really go there sometime, while there are many that are normal it quickly becomes apparent that the F/OSS movement is being taken over by the loonies.

      I'm serious on the amount of religious crazy here, it is LONG past fanboi crap. I've had guys with a straight face write that Linux 6 month updates don't break drivers which ANYBODY that has actually used that OS knows that is bullshit, it is like saying you can run the XP updates without a reboot! And when you point out the miles of "update foo broke my driver" on the Ubuntu forums what do they say? Do they admit you may have a point, that things could be better? Nope they accuse those posts of being shills and you of being a shill for ever pointing it out!

      And it is THAT, that right there, that seriously pisses me off. Linux COULD be better, it COULD be right up there with OSX SL and Win 7 but for something to get better you have to identify problems and fix them not scream and throw rocks at those that dare point them out! A perfect example of the batshit is the Linux TM called "Voldemort". I swear to fricking God there are guys all over the place that refuse to even say the word MSFT like it is a God damned curse or something. Look up Pogson on LinuxInsider for an example, but we got plenty of those here too.

      So after fighting with Linux from Ubuntu 6 through Ubuntu 10 trying my damnedest to make the thing work like the zealots claimed (and getting told the Linux TM "You should use DistroX" when I pointed out the broken shit) I've decided to make it my solemn duty to point out the loonies, be they users or developers in the hope I can make things better because shit never changes as long as you let the loonies rule, as the loonies think it is perfect no matter what! And it has worked in the past, look at Vista, everyone had a screaming fit about how shit it was so MSFT made a better OS in the form of Win 7.

      It CAN be done, it CAN get better, but ONLY by holding developers like Linus to better standards and not kissing their asses (I mean for God's sake the man brags about having no plan and letting the kernel grow like a virus and NOBODY calls him on it?) and by getting rid of the loonies who worship them and tell them their shit don't stink. And I'd do the same to a WinLoonie, a MacLoonie, and a LinLoonie, the only reason I've singled out the LinLoonies is they are getting seriously thick around here and their crazy seems to be a level above the rest.

      But thank you for your post, I was starting to think I was the only sane person in crazy town. Nice to know somebody else has seen the loonie toonie batshit nuts that seems to be spreading like the clap. I mean how can anyone take Linux seriously whe you come up with names like "The Gimp" and then on top of it have the brass balls to claim a half ass editor without even CMYK support is "superior" to PhotoShop? It is crazy like THAT that needs nipped in the bud if Linux is to ever get ahead!

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    36. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Don't listen to this person. "Free" according the to FSF is meant free as in speech, not free as in beer/cost. NOT both. He doesn't know what he is talking about. Libre is correct, and why it was used. If any random person read 100% free OS, they may think it was simply cost. But this person probably uses libre/free software, but has never advocated for it in his life, so therefore has not experience, or idea.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    37. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Headlines catch attention. It was written to catch the attention of those who care about libre software. We don't know how many submissions, if any you've had accepted since you are posting AC. So, your opinions are rightly weighted at a score of zero.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    38. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Cock punching is more of a "dedication to sound principles" thing than it is clever, it's true.

      So is libre a dedication to sound principles. But you are so errant on hurting people in their genitalia, and probably in general you don't see you using another word would help people, SINCE it is a homophone, and one that applies to lost of software what means something other than the intent we are conversing about.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    39. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Yea, Windows "gets the job done". Only if that job is keeping you on a limited platform for control. You are right, they did you good. Those on a stable Linux OS get way more done, way easier. Sure, they may have to actually learn some commands in the tool (Linux) tool they are using, but that is true with any tool, whether it is a broom or a hammer. You can use it, but it's very possibly not the best way. Windows wants to hold your hand, so you always hammer or sweep like an ignorant idiot.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    40. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      I thought at first you failed to see there are loonies everywhere, but then you above say that when you include Windows and OSX. I think you are just dissapointed there are loonies, and it is holding back progress. Me too, but those that have these in depth discussion do them because it must be done.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    41. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      AOL diskettes are usually a curse, like anything else that tends to get piled up. If I tell you there is free beer, you know exactly what is meant, no matter if you are a drunk college student, burnt out old drug user, or a Nobel Prize winner.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    42. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The question is, why does the rest of the world need to use Linux? Why should we even try to market it to the unwashed masses? Windows exists, and if they want to use a dressed-up Unix, Mac exists.

      You don't seem to understand how a CLI could be useful. The Windows CLI is pretty weak, but perhaps you've had some experience writing batch scripts for DOS? There are not that many situations where the CLI is unambiguously better than a GUI interface on the desktop, and most of those are somewhat advanced topics, edging into the area of server administration or actual programming.

      There is a pretty large advantage to not having to change your toolset; there's no time spent relearning an interface. Microsoft is going to great lengths to preserve backwards compatibility on their platform, for a similar reason. What we trade off in terms of binary compatibility, we get back in the form of scripting. I can find a script that was written before linux existed, and as long as it is well written (POSIX-compliant), it will run on any Unix machine I can find: linux, bsd, Mac OS X, solaris, etc. Additionally, since this is a script, if any part of this 'program' fails, I have the 'source code' right there to fix it.

      Also, even on platforms that are not POSIX-compliant, such as Android, I don't have to look up the command I need to move files around. You can understand that especially in the mobile phone world, there are a lot of things that users just don't need to care about, but developers might. Most people on Android can get by without a file manager, for example.

      Besides the convenience of having your scripts work, and the time saved by not relearning how to do the same thing with a different UI (computer use hasn't changed significantly in a while), there's another simple reason why people like those unix command-line utilities: for certain tasks, they work very well. They are well-designed tools, and they don't take up a bunch of space. It's really easy to stick them on a very limited device (router, mp3 player, phone), with or without the linux kernel.

      Most people who have computing devices have more than one. These days cars and microwave ovens are computerized; I'm sure you can think of dozens of specialized, computer-driven devices. A lot of these have some sort of GUI: your tv and dvd player have their own, e-book readers, practically anything with an LCD screen. All of these GUIs tend to be different, specific to their function, and usually these exclude anything not related to their function. There's no sense, after all, for the end-user to be presented with the same UI used to create the device software. It does make sense for these devices to be similar under the hood, to use similar processors, to perform similar functions like making noise and drawing pixels. Here again is the strength of the unix toolchain: it provides basic functionality on a wide variety of devices, with a consistent interface, irrespective of the graphics ability of said device. Obviously the end-user couldn't care whether the product was made with toothpicks and programmed in Brainfuck, but if you're designing devices, it makes sense to use something easy and familiar. This is why you have ten bazillion unix-based embedded devices.

      Servers are the other big area where Unix has been prevalent: it is well designed to interact with other computers in a programmatic, non-graphics-based way. If you're a programmer, and used to interacting with computers in a programmatic, non-graphics-based way, you may also like Unix, but there are of course many other considerations there.

      I hope that gives some understanding of how and why Unix is used. Unix has also been used to create functional desktop operating systems, being no worse for that purpose than anything else, I suppose. Apple seems to be doing well enough, and Red Hat, and many other companies. There is a strong movement towards web-based applications (Netflix, OnLive, Microsoft Office Web Apps), which seems to undermine the desktop metaphor. Part of that

    43. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, "liberty" is a noun, "libre" is the adjective and sometimes what you need to use is an adjective.

    44. Re:Gonna be totally honest here... by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

      You sound gay.

      --
      I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  6. It's a linux distro. by Seumas · · Score: 5, Informative

    Since we apparently couldn't be bothered with adding one more sentence to the blurb so we know what the hell 'Trisquel' actually is, it's apparently a linux distribution and Slaine seems to be the code name of the new release version (ie, Hammy, Sid, Hoary Hedgehog).

    https://trisquel.info/en

    1. Re:It's a linux distro. by Seumas · · Score: 1

      Let me correct myself. This is apparently a GNU/LINUX distribution (cough) . . . important, to note, since it is apparently the official distro provided by the FSF on their "member cards".

    2. Re:It's a linux distro. by larry+bagina · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One of 8 approved GNU/Linux distributions. None of which matter in the real world.

      Apparently, in order to be an approved FREE software OS, you need to prevent users from using non-free software. FREE from choice. The ultimate FREEdom.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    3. Re:It's a linux distro. by CyberDragon777 · · Score: 1

      http://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html

      Ubuntu offers the option to install only free packages, which means it also offers the option to install nonfree packages too.

      Thank you, Captain Obvious... -.-

      --
      We both said a lot of things that you are going to regret.
    4. Re:It's a linux distro. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They don't matter? Perhaps you mean we should get ridd of all those pointless non-Ubuntu distros?

    5. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 0

      It isn't freedom if it is non-free software.... That's like saying, "I'm in a jail because I want to be in here." It may be true that you want to be there (perhaps only if your captors have convinced you it would be best or convienient not to leave), but you are still not free. You are in a jail. Those distros allow you to run an OS without using proprietary software. You still have all the choice that you did before, but they are not going to include proprietary software by default. Add/change anything you wish. It is still GNU/Linux after all.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    6. Re:It's a linux distro. by node+3 · · Score: 1, Informative

      One of 8 approved GNU/Linux distributions. None of which matter in the real world.

      Outside of servers and as a basis for other systems (like TiVo and Android) and appliances, one could similarly claim that no Linux distro matters 'in the real world'. Although I don't share the FSF's moral stance on software, I do think it's good for them to put out lists like this and endorse software that meets their ideals.

      Apparently, in order to be an approved FREE software OS, you need to prevent users from using non-free software. FREE from choice. The ultimate FREEdom.

      That's not true. They require the distros to not include non-free software (including not having official 'non-free' repositories), but the user can be allowed to install non-free software. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if a distro had the ability to prevent users from installing non-free software, it would logically have to be a non-free system and thus not allowed in the FSF's list.

      The FSF has always supported peoples' right to choose non-free software. They have simply been consistent in doing everything they can to discourage it, but never disallowing it.

    7. Re:It's a linux distro. by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      I don't buy that at all. Allowing users to install non-free software has absolutely no equivalence to being jailed.

      The Debian package itself is 100% free from non-free software, blobs, and what have you. But because Debian has a repository for some non-free software in essentially an "aftermarket" category separate from Debian, they get the boot because apparently users can't make the distinction where Debian ends and this non-free software begins.

      To be honest, I find the whole thing a bit pretentious but that's just me.

    8. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Perhaps it is pretentious, but I think Debian wasn't qualified in the ways you mentioned when these were and the guidlines were set. Also, perhaps it is true that users can't make the distinction. Surely some won't. I am glad that Debian stepped up to match those that worked hard on being endorsed in the other ways. I know Debian was capable when the others were.

      The jail was meant as an analogy. But to continue, if there were multiple exits, and you asked how can you leave, and I said any of them, yet one would lead you to a trap where you were stuck in solitary, that wouldn't be right would it?

      See, freedom ideals are exactly why we have Linux and all the software that is available. It is only available due to sacrifices made by those previously. As time goes on, the sacrifice gets easier and smaller. No one should be able to lock up information, and since knowledge is power, then it IS a jail. A vast plain can be a jail if you have no way to escape.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    9. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Wow, what an honest and informative post.

      I am not sure about the prevent part, as I do think some things are "blacklisted' in Trisquel. However, that is possibly for compatibility/stability issues since most of if not all rely of proprietary blobs in the Linux kernel itself. But, you could always install/update your own (custom?) kernel and surely de-blacklist whatever you want.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    10. Re:It's a linux distro. by timbo234 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's not true. They require the distros to not include non-free software (including not having official 'non-free' repositories), but the user can be allowed to install non-free software.

      Except that having a 'non-free' repo is the means by which users install non-free software. So according to the FSF it's all right if users install non-free software from a repo run by a 3rd party, but it's not all right if the non-free repo is hosted by the Linux distro maker/project itself? Even if the non-free repo is optional. What a pointless, splitting-hairs argument from the FSF.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    11. Re:It's a linux distro. by Zephiris · · Score: 1

      Speaking of pretentious...
      If GNU/Linux is a "jail", and you have to "get out of jail" by only using non-free software...then perhaps I'll just use Linux Linux. Linux is just a kernel, and GNU tends to be nearly the worst toolchain/base tools on any OS. BSD base tools are at least clean, efficient, and actually follow the unix pholosophy, instead of building a private copy of "sort" into every command.

      The "Libre" version of the kernel has gone so far (at least last year, when it was on lwn) as to 'forbid' you from running any kind of non-GPL drier or blob.

      The LK itself wasn't even initially GPL, for a few versions. Linux, and other software, is available because people were free to choose to be able to do it and pursue it, not because the GNU foundation exists and heavily advertises its own worth. GNU also tends to 'frown' upon non-GPL, but otherwise 'more liberal' open source software because it allows more choice, and hence 'evil proprietary software can choose it too! bad! shame!' (I can imagine Stallman saying that out loud, that verbatim...I really can).

      "I'm just doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, it won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones."
      ^ GNU would have a lot more credibility, if Hurd was an operating system people knew about as well as NetBSD...or even the L4/Fiasco Microkernel.
      It's been in Development Hell since 1986. Their initial option was to use a 4.4BSD kernel (circa 1987) and rework it, but they weren't getting extensive bend-over-backwards do-it-for-us support from the Berkley guys, so wanted 'Mach' instead...waited 3 years for them to change the license for them...

      The common factor about the "rejections" on the "Free Linux" thing, like for Debian, is that all a distribution has to do is offer the "option" to install non-free, even if it's disintegrated with the project, not 'easily available' in the software, or easily linked from websites or main pages, but that it's merely not-impossible to search for it on the internet, find it, and install it. Woo. "FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD all include instructions for obtaining nonfree programs in their ports system."

      If you can't trust *administrators* to make their own logical choices, even if 99% of their software is free, then you shouldn't be promoting Linux.
      The GNU philosophy is, and always has been, a 'walled garden' of supposed luxury and extravagance that tends to fall short and piss people off because they're just taking choices, options, and 'stuff' away from you.
      The lovely thing is, it appears to predate the Apple notion of that by at least two decades. ... I wonder if that's where Apple got the idea.

      But it's very classic Soviet style/Stalinist, to talk about "the freedom of the people", while ordering them by threat of death not to think of anything on the non-approved list.

      I'm always going to run proprietary stuff, because I like my video card to operate, I like OpenCL, I like video playback. The 'license restrictions' per-distro, tends to mean at least one of those is not available via 'normal' means.

      And as various Linux foundations and organizations have done, encouraging developers, and "scary proprietary people" to release their program/utility/game/driver source code under a free license, eventually, is easier by making them -like- Linux, instead of feel threatened by it.
      If it's turned into religious dogma (which Stallman seems rather proud of), then you're going to have at least two diametrically opposed camps who will never get along, and will essentially try to "kill" each other over time.

      I've always found it amusing that the "linux" community seems to think itself much superior to and isolated from their *BSD second-cousins, but what people should perhaps be more worried about, are all of the greedy corporations, and corporate takeovers, that threaten decently sane and objective policy making. Fedora at least got 'spun off' from Redhat, and they for the most part, haven't been trying to burn anythin

      --

      "A Goddess rarely smiles for she is forced by others to be an island unto herself." - Zephiris
    12. Re:It's a linux distro. by maxume · · Score: 1

      You should make such arguments without resorting to analogies.

      Especially because an increasingly viable GNU system mitigates the penalties of using proprietary stuff.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    13. Re:It's a linux distro. by node+3 · · Score: 1

      What a pointless, splitting-hairs argument from the FSF.

      That's pretty much the definition of the FSF. They aren't pragmatic, they are idealistic. If a stance was non-hair-splitting, they wouldn't need to make a big deal about it. That's why they use terms like "libre" instead of "free", and "GNU/Linux" instead of "Linux".

      The reason for the particular distinction in question is that if there's an official non-free repository, that encourages people to use non-free software. The FSF won't endorse a distro that encourages people to use non-free software. That's an important distinction that you are missing in the following sentence:

      So according to the FSF it's all right if users install non-free software from a repo run by a 3rd party, but it's not all right if the non-free repo is hosted by the Linux distro maker/project itself?

      They aren't telling you what's all right or not for you to do, they are telling you what they promote. I've never heard Stallman or anyone else speaking on behalf of the FSF make a claim that people should not be able to choose non-free software. Just that he (and they) encourage free software, and discourage non-free software.

      People often mischaracterize the FSF as trying to control people. They aren't. They moralize quite a bit, but they won't punish you, beyond simply recommending against your software if it's not free.

    14. Re:It's a linux distro. by larry+bagina · · Score: 1

      Make a list of every linux distro you can think of. Red Hat, Debian, Ubuntu, Yellow Dog, Gentoo, Yasddril (or however it's spelled), Mandriva, Opensuse, etc. Then compare it to the 8 FSF-approved distros. Is there any overlap at all? How many of those 8 approved have you heard of? How many of those 8 have you used? Please explain why any of those 8 matter.

      --
      Do you even lift?

      These aren't the 'roids you're looking for.

    15. Re:It's a linux distro. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To all the people spouting off about "choice" and "force" and all that other nonsense, from what GNU has to say about proprietary software (emphasis mine):

      The Free Software Foundation follows the rule that we cannot install any proprietary program on our computers except temporarily for the specific purpose of writing a free replacement for that very program. Aside from that, we feel there is no possible excuse for installing a proprietary program. ...
      We don't insist that users of GNU, or contributors to GNU, have to live by this rule. It is a rule we made for ourselves. But we hope you will follow it too, for your freedom's sake.

      They don't promote distros that offer, support, or promote non-free software. However, there's nothing in any of GNU's philosophy articles that mentions anything about force or limiting choices.

      In fact, I have Skype on my Trisquel 4.5 install right now!

    16. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      GNU licenses are not a jail, unless you look at not being able to jail other people is a jail. If so, then stop reading.

      The issues with Linux are largely the part of proprietary software vendors. The answer is to innovate past them.Progress is being made, but you have to admit the deck is stacked against freedom. You have to be "zealous" to not give up.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    17. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Can you say that another way? It sounds like you are saying a more viable GNU system makes less severe the penalties of proprietary software. How so? If you use it, the "penalties" (whatever you mean by that) are still there...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    18. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      I can't wait until they get the GNU voice released. That will be awesome!

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    19. Re:It's a linux distro. by maxume · · Score: 1

      One often stated reason for not using proprietary software is that the company that makes it might stop supporting it. But free software supports more and more legacy proprietary formats.

      So the big warning was that it was a potential trap, but in many cases, oops, it wasn't.

      But I shouldn't have sidetracked myself, telling people that they are in jail is just going to make them stop listening, that's a more important reason to avoid that analogy (but analogies often run into the problem that they will 'offend the ear' of the listener, or they are stupid, or they don't make sense, or whatever).

      Stallman takes this to the extreme, working to avoid ever falling into the proprietary trap, even if all it would take to escape was nothing at all.

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    20. Re:It's a linux distro. by timbo234 · · Score: 1

      I never said they were trying to control anyone, I was just pointing out that the reasoning behind their recommendations makes little sense.

      --
      Pre-canned Evolution Links for all those Slashdot holy wars.
    21. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      It's about way more than being in a "jail". It's about privacy, security, etc. Even things like FaceBook are warned against, and if you tried to remove your data from certain services, good luck. In general, you are at the whims of a proprietary software maker and the only choice you have often is to use, or not to use. But even choosing not to use anymore doesn't mean irreparable damage hasn't already been done.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    22. Re:It's a linux distro. by maxume · · Score: 1

      See, you don't need to resort to the jail analogy to talk about the problems.

      (but publishing anything on the internet is "dangerous", even if you can get Facebook to delete it, what about that guy that manually screen scraped it?)

      --
      Nerd rage is the funniest rage.
    23. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Well, if you have the privacy tools/options available as you should (like not sharing data with anyone but say, friends) then that isn't as much an issue. My bank details are "published" but there is sufficient security that only I should be able to likely gain access. If my bank however sells my data, then it is an injustice if it is without my knowledge or permission, but they don't know everything about me the way Facebook might. And really, that is a whole other subject besides free/libre software. Related, but different.

        One way that they are related is that you are subjugated. That is why the "jail" reference is meaningful. Because it help people understand in "plainer" English. People now often think it is okay to be subjugated with software, but mention jail, and they still understand that is something that is not right and that they don't want to be a part of. (usually)

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    24. Re:It's a linux distro. by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      I see where you are coming from. It is like MADD not wanting to discourage ANY drinking, instead of admitting drinking responsibly is ok and a right. And it is similar that the FSF will not endorse anything that is non-free. But that is there mission, whereas MADD's is about drinking, and then driving. Also, it doesn't make since to all but open a beer and hand it to someone if you are trying to discourage drinking and driving. And the FSF isn't endorsing anyone who hands you closed software in a neat little package. You want it, go get it.. just won't be endorsed. So, it does make since when you think about it.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  7. WTF by atari2600a · · Score: 0

    100% Libre. OO.org 3.2. MFW :|

    1. Re:WTF by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Had to look up your little acronym there... not sure why you used it as it doesn't save time. But anyhow, it is an upstream related thing, and will probably change in future releases. OO.org is still Libre, and it is easy to install and then uninstall OO.org if you wish.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  8. April 1st is next week. by RoverDaddy · · Score: 0

    Triscuit? Jemima? Duck Duck Goose? FlashVideoEraser? I think you're a week early.

    --
    RETURN without GOSUB in line 1050
  9. noun noun libre release noun by mjeffers · · Score: 5, Funny

    Trisquel Slaine with Gwibber is cool and all but all the cool kids have already moved on to Aljaeguhn Tyabha with Florn.

    Now with 75% more Styhanb.

    1. Re:noun noun libre release noun by Zan+Lynx · · Score: 2

      You are awesome and I wish I had mod points.

      It's always great to see more Styhanb.

    2. Re:noun noun libre release noun by Werkhaus · · Score: 1

      Aljaeguhn Tyabha with Florn.

      Now with 75% more Styhanb.

      Actually, if you kill the Splorg manager and replace it with Optimized Achylia, you can run Florn directly through Styhanb, enabling 100% EnOL-isation.

    3. Re:noun noun libre release noun by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 1

      Man. That is so awesome. I had no idea that running Florn directly would improve my yields. Nature Gwibbomethods, here I come!

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    4. Re:noun noun libre release noun by Jesus_666 · · Score: 1

      Note, however, that that will only work in Swastik 9.7 QTJ 'Zig', which comes with the new Gwitter-ready P8 fork Ad-Hominork which allows 10% higher mGNOPS when used in conjunction with HTMLVideoTranslator piped through the Hop Skip Bubblegum search engine VB GUI to hack all IPs simultaneously.

      Several police laboratories have already expressed their interest.

      --
      USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
    5. Re:noun noun libre release noun by typhoonius · · Score: 0

      Aljaeguhn Tyabha is junk, it won't even play back my multiplexed Ogg Rectum streams.

    6. Re:noun noun libre release noun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heheh, I like that name. Ogg Rectum must be a video codec that uses fractal compression, approximating each frame with variously scaled and rotated copies of hello.jpg; excels at flesh-toned images such as porn... y'know, someone actually should implement that -- it'd be hilarious.

    7. Re:noun noun libre release noun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gwibber is old news, the real highlights here are deja-dup and reminna. Not sure what those are, let me duck duck goose that for you
      http://lmddgtfy.com/?q=deja-dup

      ps i can't believe that actually worked.

    8. Re:noun noun libre release noun by aztracker1 · · Score: 1

      Ogg Rectum? Damn near killed him.

      --
      Michael J. Ryan - tracker1.info
  10. Bravo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great summary: give details about something nobody knows about, and only then explain what that thing basically is. Because the confusing headline just wasn't enough, right?

  11. Please tag - "freetarded" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a poorly written summary, filled with meaningless (but I'm sure RMS approved!) names.

  12. at least it serves as a lesson to others... by mjeffers · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The next time someone tells me the only reason why [productx] is so popular is due to marketing I'm sending them a link to this summary as an example of why that really really does matter.

    1. Re:at least it serves as a lesson to others... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No real /.ers would pass up the chance for native dlig.ipmad.umupluo.us integration.

    2. Re:at least it serves as a lesson to others... by Aldenissin · · Score: 0

      Well considering there is only one full time developer and he does most of the website, etc. and English is not his primary language, I think he did great! I bet there are more downloads of this than some proprietary wares with a marketing team.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    3. Re:at least it serves as a lesson to others... by mjeffers · · Score: 1

      Aww, now I do feel kinda bad. To be fair, the screenshots did look very nice and polished but next time you may want to keep the announcements simple and link to all the details. I probably won't use this but I wish him luck.

    4. Re:at least it serves as a lesson to others... by Aldenissin · · Score: 2

      Yes, I learned some lessons... but I got it accepted with 9th grade and GED education. I don't think I did that bad either for something like 3 AM this morning. :D I will let him know what you said and will probably get him to let me clean up the announcement some next time, or maybe even tomorrow for this release. My grammar isn't that bad and English is my primary language.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  13. scraping the barrel by zaphirplane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    a whole os, distro and the highlights include enabling http pipelining and including a couple of browser add-ons, switching default search engine
    Really ? really ?
    That's the problem that needs solving, thru a new disto

    1. Re:scraping the barrel by fuzzix · · Score: 1

      a whole os, distro and the highlights include enabling http pipelining and including a couple of browser add-ons, switching default search engine
      Really ? really ?
      That's the problem that needs solving, thru a new disto

      Yep, that's right, a whole new distro... to enable something that not everybody thinks is a great idea... I mean, if you want to make 200 http connections per web page have at it, but do it on some other web, not the one that myself and others enjoy traffic from.

    2. Re:scraping the barrel by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      No, those are differences between the last release, you know 4.5 indicates there have been others...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    3. Re:scraping the barrel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know your web browser makes 200 http connections anyway, right? Pipelining means running them simultaneously (so one distant, congested, or offline server doesn't hold up everything else) instead of sequentially, but you're transferring the same amount of data either way.

      I do hope you're trolling, because if not that's the stupidist post I've seen online in probably 2-3 hours.

  14. Makes me embarrassed to be here on Friday evening by howardd21 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How pathetic; I am reading this summary, and actually responding, on a Friday evening,...

    --
    no comment
  15. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  16. Slashdot... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Distrowatch in a different timezone!

  17. why though by kvvbassboy · · Score: 1

    Don't get me wrong, I like Linux, and use it at home and at work. Why would anyone specifically want a distribution that provides *only* free software? Instead they could any other distro (that has a bigger community and better support) and remove all the non-free software, if they are that concerned about it.

    1. Re:why though by aloniv · · Score: 1

      The whole point of a free distibution is not to use or recommend proprietary software as proprietary software is viewed as unethical since the developer of the software controls the users of the software. The distro Trisquel is based on Ubuntu so you can get most of the help needed from the Ubuntu forums. The distro also has its own forums. The main differences from Ubuntu are a rebranded Mozilla browser which never suggests the use of Adobe Flash and instead uses replacements such as Gnash, the removal of Ubuntu's Multiverse repository as it contains non-free software and a Linux kernel without any non-free binary blobs. Note that since the Linux kernel contains non-free software it violates its own license.

    2. Re:why though by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      "the developer of the software controls the users of the software"

      what a crock that is. what % of users of software do you think are capable of doing anything remotely useful (or even plain silly) with the source code? 10%? 1%? And of those, what % are interested enough in making a change? The developer(s) will always control the users of the software unless the developers are the only people using the software.

    3. Re:why though by Aldenissin · · Score: 2

      Ever think of how much work that is to remove all the proprietary software and .blobs? Now, all you have to do is download it and use it, saving you time. It is based on Ubuntu, so you have a ton of support there. And if you can't get your answer there, then you can always find help on the forums or IRC.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    4. Re:why though by Aldenissin · · Score: 2

      "the developer of the software controls the users of the software"

      what a crock that is. what % of users of software do you think are capable of doing anything remotely useful (or even plain silly) with the source code? 10%? 1%? And of those, what % are interested enough in making a change? The developer(s) will always control the users of the software unless the developers are the only people using the software.

      Negative, without the source code, updates can be forced, for example. Just by having the source code, once can easily enough, compile the old version again. Even give someone a few bucks to take out the update mechanism or neutralize it. That is just one example.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    5. Re:why though by Tubal-Cain · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The main differences from Ubuntu are a rebranded Mozilla browser...

      $ apt-get install abrowser
      There. Ubuntu with an unbranded Firefox. It even removes firefox-branding.

      ...which never suggests the use of Adobe Flash

      Those that care are free to click the "no thanks" button and go without flash online.

      ...and instead uses replacements such as Gnash

      Wow. Best joke I've read all week.

      ...the removal of Ubuntu's Multiverse repository as it contains non-free software...

      Isn't that turned off by default?

      ...and a Linux kernel without any non-free binary blobs. Note that since the Linux kernel contains non-free software it violates its own license.

      So...Ubuntu with Debian's kernel.

    6. Re:why though by aloniv · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here are some examples of developers of the software controlling the users of the software using proprietary software:

      1. Free software, unlike proprietary software, can be ported to other operating systems (and to different architectures). Proprietary software will usually only be ported if the developer wishes to do so (e.g. if enough people use the operating system), which is why for example Adobe did not release a version of Flash for FreeBSD or for the Openmoko GNU/Linux distributions.

      2. Nvidia is unwilling to add VDPAU support to the GNU/Linux drivers of their old graphic cards even though the Windows drivers support the equivalent technology. So if you want VDPAU on GNU/Linux you need to buy a new graphics card, even though your card should be able to use VDPAU if Nvidia decides to support it.

      3. The VIA Unichrome Pro graphics card does not support a 16:9 resolution when using the proprietary graphics card driver on Windows XP, so if you want to connect a Windows XP computer with this graphics card to a 16:9 monitor without seeing a distorted image, you need to buy a new graphics card. The reason for this is that VIA stopped supporting the driver in 2007. The free driver on GNU/Linux called openChrome on the other hand supports 16:9 resolutions such as 720p. If someone didn't know about GNU/Linux, they would probably just buy a new graphics card, even though their card might actually support a 16:9 resolution if the graphics card driver developers decide to support it.

    7. Re:why though by Lawrence_Bird · · Score: 1

      (1) free software will only be ported if a developer(s) wish to do so too. It is not a given that you will get a clean compile taking a tarball from one and putting on another (ie, redhat to openbsd) (2) Nvidia has probably made the economic assessment that there are few users of the older card(s) running linux or bsd to make it worth the effort to pull a developer off a current project to provide you something that was not promised when you purchased the card. (3) I think if they are using XP and wanting 16:9 they would not switch to linux to get that ability. Their applications and knowledge base are with XP/Windows, not linux. previous poster - one can always keep the original installation files of any downloaded software and roll back to a prior version. That is far easier than trying to recompile. Again, think about what % of computer users would even know the proper steps yet alone be willing to take them? I'm not against oss at all but I am definitely in the BSD license camp.

    8. Re:why though by aloniv · · Score: 1

      Porting software is not just copying the code. Popular software does in fact get ported. A good example of this is the Openmoko phones, which contains a lot of ported free software (e.g. FBReader, Midori and Pidgin). Porting non-free software however is impossible unless the developer chooses to do it.

      Nvidia only needs to release the source code of one of their drivers (say a Windows driver), and the GNU/Linux developers would create a driver for them. That is how openChrome was born (VIA only provided irregular releases of the code but that was enough to create Unichrome which was forked into openChrome).

      What I tried to explain was this:

      1. If you use Windows all the hardware will be supported (usually) by proprietary drivers which will only be supported for at most a few years, so new features will not be added even if the hardware can support them. Some hardware is not supported at all or only partially supported on GNU/Linux by proprietary drivers, since the companies don't think it is worthwhile for them to make an effort to support GNU/Linux. These companies want the users to buy new supported hardware instead of adding support to existing hardware. This is part of the reason why I think proprietary drivers are bad.

      2. If you use GNU/Linux and use hardware that is supported by free drivers, then chances are that newer common features (like connecting to an external monitor with a 16:9 resolution) will be implemented. This is one of the reasons why I think all drivers should be released under a free license.

    9. Re:why though by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      I don't need to compile anything to use old versions of anything. These days you can find old versions of any proprietary program via the Internet ....

      Which will promptly be upgraded again as soon as you connect to the Internet...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    10. Re:why though by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Can you install abrowser on Ubuntu? My understanding it is done by Trisquel, but it is GPL'd so it is possible.
      You can still watch Flash videos, without Flash or Gnash on Trisquel.
      It is a joke to you since it would likely be better than Flash brand player if they could get the specs.
      There may be other enhancements. Does Debian use the libre kernel or a custom one?

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    11. Re:why though by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

      Most programmers don't care either. FSF and their followers are not only out of touch with the mainstream but also with most geeks.

    12. Re:why though by judeancodersfront · · Score: 1

      Here is the problem with open source alternatives to proprietary software: most don't exist. Why was there never a good GNU Flash alternative? There is no Flash for FreeBSD but it isn't as if the GNU crew came up with anything better. All they have is Gnash which is behind and lacks developers.

  18. Re:yuk yuk yuk by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

    Nothing? How about power 3/4ths of the worlds servers. In your car, T.V, toaster, Tivo, fridge, and on and on. Innovate companies that would rather keep the status quo but are forced to catch up.

    --
    Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  19. Re:Makes me embarrassed to be here on Friday eveni by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

    Then this distro should be installing right now! Ba dum tish!

    --
    Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  20. Libre the new Free? by flimflammer · · Score: 1

    Can't help but notice since the fork of OpenOffice was named LibreOffice, everyone is using the word Libre now. This thread is filled with instances of it by various individuals. I thought it was silly when they named it LibreOffice and I think it's silly people are jumping on the word everywhere else now.

    I realize this is dangerously off-topic (mod me so if you feel so inclined) -- I just find it strange.

    1. Re:Libre the new Free? by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      They needed a name since it was a fork. They wanted the name to signify the difference. One way is that libre implies not beholding as much to a proprietary company, in this case Oracle. What would you have named it, Free Office? What if that is taken? What if people think only that it means gratis? I can guarantee you the average office worker will think that.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
    2. Re:Libre the new Free? by flimflammer · · Score: 1

      What I said really doesn't have anything to do with their name choice. I think it's (personally) a silly choice but I don't really care. What I find strange is ever since they chose that name, others have been referring to the concept of "Free" as "Libre" in tons of places that have nothing to do with LibreOffice. It's like LibreOffice set a trend and now everyone wants to get in on it.

    3. Re:Libre the new Free? by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      RMS has been using libre since at least 2007. Someone asked in another post when it came about. He didn't mention in a 2006 lecture, but he did in 2007.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  21. New words by dragonhunter21 · · Score: 1

    So is libre the new free-as-in-beer?

    --
    Sent from my CR-48
    1. Re:New words by wall0645 · · Score: 1

      No, libre is the "new" (it's not really that new) free-as-in-freedom.

    2. Re:New words by dragonhunter21 · · Score: 1

      Wow, I was tired when I wrote that. I meant free-as-in-freedom, I really did.

      How long has this been around? First time I heard of it was LibreOffice. Anything before that?

      --
      Sent from my CR-48
    3. Re:New words by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Well, it wasn't mentioned here in RMS's 2006 lecture. It is here with "free/libre" in 2007.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  22. Therefore, by hellop2 · · Score: 1

    I refuse to comment on unreadable headlines.

    --
    How many more years will slashdot have an off-by-one error on your Score in your profile?
  23. Re:yuk yuk yuk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude. You've been whooshed.

  24. Re:yuk yuk yuk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think he's making fun of the critical posters. He seems to be on your side.

  25. Slaine by dadioflex · · Score: 1

    Finally my rudimentary knowledge of Irish comes into play.. or is this the German or Spanish meaning of the word? Oh, poo.

    1. Re:Slaine by wall0645 · · Score: 1

      I believe you are correct in your assumption that it is Irish. The Wikipedia article says the name Trisquel "comes from the Celtic symbol triskelion."

    2. Re:Slaine by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Celtics are also in North Spain and much of Europe. I thought Celtic was Irish only as well, but Ruben Rodriguez, the founder who named it Trisquel is from North Spain and informed me on the history.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  26. 100% Libre, but no LibreOffice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it's '100% Libre', why does it include OpenOffice not LibreOffice? ;)

    Could no one come up with a better name than 'Mozilla based web browser 3.6.15'? It sounds like instead of a Milkshake we're getting a Partially-Gelatinated-Non-Dairy-Gum-Based-Beverage.

    1. Re:100% Libre, but no LibreOffice by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      It is called "Web Browser". Sort of like "Internet Explorer". It is mentioned it is Mozilla based since it helps people know about it with that mere mention.

      It uses OpenOffice due to upstream, is my understanding. Here is hoping it is changed to LibreOffice soon.

      Oh, and I want a real milkshake, you can keep that other crap.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  27. I must be missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So let me see if I understand this.
    Debian is fully open source.
    Ubuntu is based on Debian and with closed source added.
    Trisquel is based on Ubuntu with the closed source removed.
    I may be missing a point here but why isn't it based on directly Debian?

    1. Re:I must be missing something by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some things come first in Ubuntu so Ubuntu is more cutting-edge. Ubuntu also has other htings such as a new X replacement (Could it have been called Unity?), etc..

    2. Re:I must be missing something by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Unity will not be in Trisquel, it has been confirmed, by default. You are correct, it keeps much of the stuff that makes Ubuntu successful...

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  28. Re:Makes me embarrassed to be here on Friday eveni by howardd21 · · Score: 1

    Funny...I did go to the website to look at it. At least I learned the difference between GNU/Linux and Linus with that exercise.

    --
    no comment
  29. Exciting news! New Librevision++ released! by frist · · Score: 1

    The developers of Librevision++ proudly announce a new release which includes a new version of the Jabberwocky++ client and the Gerlbes browser. Updated boot loaders for Snapcore images and Dijong class monitors is included! Bug fixes for Smacklepackle 2.3 and a few new features for Jinglebanlge 4.3 are included!

  30. Re:Makes me embarrassed to be here on Friday eveni by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your comment was really pathetic. Now, do you want to make it less so by telling the rest of us what you're trying to say?

    Honey, we're all nerds here. What f*** do expect us to be doing on a friday evening?

  31. say no to freetards! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody wants your bad distro just because it is more free. We want something that actually works and is supportable. A prime example of freetard fail is the open jdk which caused us no end of pain. We thought eclipse was at fault for crashes, slow running, etc. Then we realised the open jdk was installed by default on the distro we were using instead of Sun's JRE. Using Sun's JRE resolved all our issues.

    1. Re:say no to freetards! by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

      Bad distro, well we know why he is posting AC. So, you used a best available free version of something closed and it didn't work 100%, and you blame those that did thee best possible? What an idiot. Place you blame where it is due, on Java themselves. If they opened it I bet the version you had would be *better* than Javas.

      --
      Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  32. YAY! by nurb432 · · Score: 1

    Or at least i think its yay.. I will know after i figure out what the hell it is..

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  33. Re:Makes me embarrassed to be here on Friday eveni by Aldenissin · · Score: 1

    Well, Linux is the kernel, we don't go around calling windows NT... I get both sides points, but if it wasn't for GNU, it is likely the world's software would be a much different place, and not for the better. Consider that Microsoft was selling NT I think it was for something like $800 in the early 90's and the home version for like $200, and the only difference was one dll file that allowed the http pipes to go from 10 to 50, which is something a business or office could use with lans. When you overwrote the home version's dll file with the NT, you got the same exact OS bit for bit. Maybe you disagree, but that highway robbery BS is just evil to me. I am glad you got a little history with GNU and Linus, it helps to make since of it all.

    --
    Like a city whose walls are broken down is a man who lacks self-control.
  34. Re:Makes me embarrassed to be here on Friday eveni by howardd21 · · Score: 1

    Yep, I recall that DLL hack to switch versions. And when O'Rielly sold an HTTP server and said to buy the NT workstation and run that, and then Microsoft changed license terms and the DLL to only allow 10 connections. I have used Linux since it was version .37 or something like that in the early 90s. I do not use it as much anymore (more business work than development/engineering work), and did not even know about GNU/Linux. It was kind of neat to learn.

    --
    no comment