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Nintendo Chief: Consumers Don't Understand 3DS Yet
gabbo529 writes "Nintendo's latest financial results reveal that initial sales for their portable 3D gaming system have been underwhelming at best. What's the reason? Nintendo chief executive Satoru Iwata says consumers have yet to fully understand the console's 3D capabilities, even when trying it out. Others think it might have something to do with the console's high price ($250) and the lack of big-name titles available (Mario and Zelda are not yet out)."
And the 3D-effects are underwhelming at most.
Not really worth half the money of an iPad-like which impresses much more.
You're just holding it wrong!
I've had a 3DS since launch-day (more detailed thoughts in my journal) and I think I could summarise my opinion of it as follows:
- It looks and feels like a nice piece of hardware; much less like a plastic toy than previous Nintendo handhelds.
- It's also a step up on the DS from an ergonomic point of view. The analogue stick is good - better than the PSP's - but there's only one of them. This means that a lot of the same control issues that plagued certain genres on the PSP are already re-emerging on the 3DS.
- The 3D effect is jaw-dropping at first, but headache inducing (for me) even after relatively short play sessions and a distraction in the longer term. It's worth seeing, but not a reason to buy the machine in itself. Also, the 3D effect is massively hard to sustain if you are not in a "stable" environment. If you're trying to use it on a train or plane, you may have problems.
- Take the 3D effect away and the graphics are... ok. Roughly speaking, the launch titles look slightly worse than current PSP titles (not helped by the lower screen resolution). However, it's unfair to compare launch titles to titles for an older system that developers know well by now.
- The battery life is bad. Depending on 3D and sound settings, I get between 3 and 4 and a half hours from the thing. This compares to 4-6 hours from the PSP and 12+ hours from the old DS.
- Load times are also more noticable than on the DS. None of the launch titles have loading times as bad as something like Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep or Dissidia 012 on the PSP, but they can still be irritating. Plus those PSP titles are far more ambitious than any of the 3DS launch titles.
- The launch titles are not fantastic. I got Pilotwings Resort and Ridge Racer with my console; they're both fun for short periods, but also very shallow and they get boring really fast. I've tried a few of the other launch titles for varying periods of time. Most of them range from "mediocre" to "outright bad". Street Fighter 4 is pretty good, but is always going to feel second best to the home console versions.
- And there's not much else in the pipeline. Yes, there's a Zelda remake coming, but I've bought that game once already and can't get too excited about buying it again. Beyond that... who knows?
The biggest problem the 3DS has is distinguishing itself from the (now much cheaper) PSP. The 3DS has the 3D effect, which is undoubtedly clever at first, but which starts to feel like a gimmick fairly quickly. Beyond that, the PSP has a better screen, better battery life and graphics that are more or less on a par with the 3DS's (if not slightly better on the basis of current titles). It also has the advantage of having a huge number of decent games already out there. Which, as I've posted on earlier threads, does make me wonder why on earth Sony now want to retire the PSP for a (risky, expensive) successor, when now would be the perfect time for them to just push cheap PSPs and major releases and kill the 3DS stillborn. The PSP is handily outselling the 3DS week on week in Japan and is holding up remarkably well in other markets. That's no small achievement for a console that was written off as a "failure" within months of launching.
Don't get me wrong - the 3DS is in no way bad. Turn the 3D off (as most people will after a day or two) and you are still left with a pleasant to use handheld with some nifty features. But are those features enough to justify the price for most gamers, against the backdrop of very little currently worth playing on the thing? Probably not...
One thing's for sure - complaining that customers "don't understand" your product is not the way forward. It's the kind of talk I always associate from companies who know that they're losing. A bit like when a game developer responds to bad review scores by saying "our game isn't intended for critics".
Any time you claim that "consumers don't understand..." or "consumers need to be educated about..." you Have A Problem.
Most of the time, you are just engaged in the corporate equivalent of teenage whining about being misunderstood. Sorry. Your product is not, in fact, a special flower, misunderstood by the uncaring public. They just don't like it very much.
On occasion, you have in fact created something so new, unique, or ahead-of-its-time that its utility is not yet well understood. Unfortunately for you, while this is more likely to ensure you a spot in history, it also usually means that you are the sucker who did the R&D and then ran out of money while waiting for customers to wake up; and, when they eventually did, somebody else was far better situated to fulfill the demand. Sorry.
Frankly, I'm going to suggest that the 3DS falls into option #1. The public understands "3D" perfectly well(in specialized theaters we've had some degree of it for what, 50 years?); but has also learned by experience that 90% of "3D" is gimmicky crap that costs more and frequently delivers less.
Nintendo gives the 3DS a switch to turn the 3D off completely. They've basically told developers that it's a gimmick, not an essential gameplay feature, and that they shouldn't make games that rely upon this feature.
Given that's the case, why would most developers stick their neck out to use it at all? Without a must-have exclusive game, Nintendo will always have trouble getting people to replace their DSi with something that costs almost twice as much.
Well, he could hardly say "people understand the product well enough to make a well informed choice not to buy the thing" or "people just don't care as much about this gimmick as we hoped they would" could he? One of which is closer to the truth in most cases.
While arguably 3D TVs and projectors for movies and the like are still just a gimmick, having 3D-like screens on gaming devices make a lot more sense.
Especially considering the form factor of the 3DS, it's nice. For more serious gaming, though, we still want this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw
I can see the 3D effects, but they are really underwhelming to me. I have the same problem with 3D movies. My depth perception isn't very good. To me, the 3DS looks like Nintendo trying to get me to cough up $250 for N64-era graphics.
Consumers don't understand Nintendo's 3DS?
I'd rather go that Nintendo doesn't understand consumers. Sadly this is all too common in corporate business. Rather than trying to push something on the market you should try to figure out what there is a pull for. Difficult, yes, especially if you want to be first to the market, but who said business was supposed to be easy? It boils down to 'tits or stfu, nintendo' I guess.
This makes me think that if the developers made games with no 3D effect, the graphics could be twice as complex as those of the PSP. Goes against the whole 3D idea, of course, so it would probably just annoy anyone who bought the device for the 3D gimmick, even if the visuals were better than a PSP..
which is totally what she said
I played with it for a while at a toystore -- couldn't see the 3D no matter how hard I looked at the headache inducing blurred image.
This is the first time I am incompatible with an electronic toy, I urgently need an upgrade.
I attended the Nintendo DS stall at the Sydney Easter Show and was asked to sign a consent form for my 6 year old for him to spend 5 minutes playing with the console. The representative there told me that although there was "nothing wrong with the technology", they "do not know enough about the potential damage to young children's eyes and that parents should not buy this for children under the age of 8 as their eyes are still developing".
I did not sign the consent form and moved right along. Sorry Nintendo, I will not be buying your console.
Im still waiting on the developmental studies on the effects of 3D.I personally have been against 3D from the start and am proud to say that i have never scene a 3D movie
That depends on how much of the 3DS's power is actually going on the 3D effect. I've heard varying reports here, ranging from "half of it" to "very little indeed". The longer term problem is the size and resolution of the screen, which is always going to hold the 3DS back from matching the PSP (let alone the NGP) in a straight graphical battle. To be honest, I'd have thought that Nintendo would have been better focussing on screen size and quality for their DS successor (the DS always being pretty bad in this respect) rather thank taking what now looks like a slightly unwise risk on 3D.
One thing's for sure - complaining that customers "don't understand" your product is not the way forward. It's the kind of talk I always associate from companies who know that they're losing. A bit like when a game developer responds to bad review scores by saying "our game isn't intended for critics".
Hey, if it means more Twisp and Catsby I'm fine with it. Although I think it's more likely we'll see some Nintendo/ICP crossover image macros á la: "F***ing 3D effect. How does it work?"
Anyway, it's a great sentence to laugh about. Not quite in the same league as giant enemy crabs in historical Japan but Nintendo are certainly trying.
USE HOT GRITS WITH STATUE OF NATALIE PORTMAN (NAKED AND PETRIFIED)
Nintendo doesn't understand consumers, you insensitive clod!
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
Even my friend's kids (older than six) turned the 3D off almost immediately. The thing I liked best was the augmented reality stuff using the camera. I personally think it has a very nice potential for games as time goes on. I'll be keeping an eye out for those games and what developers might come up with. Considering the truly awesome things coming out of independent development and small game houses developing for electronic distribution, I have high hopes and dreams for something like augmented reality. In the future though, I hope they ship something other than a card as a reference point for the games. My friend's 10 year old had already crumpled the heck out of that card before 24 hours had gone by.
How about releasing it before Christmas. In Nintendo's price bracket and target audience their customers aren't worried about cutting edge tech; they are worried about filling as many Christmas stocking on time as possible.
Rocket Surgeon.
woooooo once or twice fine NOT all the time sorry.
thats why they fail. and think of the money these bone heads are sinking into it all , its just even more funny.
It's Nintendo that doesn't understand the 3DS. You've built a device with about a 5-degree usable viewing angle, and you've put motion control in the blasted thing. I know Nintendo has a long history of throwing a bunch of shit at the wall and quickly abandoning whatever doesn't stick, but really?
If a device doesn't "fit" and isn't priced fairly, they keep their current device or move on to some other product. Simple.
Steve Jobs, Jonny Ives and other designers realize that "fit" means easy to use and does the job.
I have to put Nintendo CEO Satori in the same camp as RIM CEO Basillie as CEOs who are out of touch with their customers.
Potential customers understand it just fine. It's NIntendo that doesn't get it. The DS was so successful because it was affordable and had great battery life.
The 3DS is neither of those things. It's too expensive and the battery life sucks, all in the name of a gimmicky technology that most users wind up turning off anyway. I mean you can't even use the 3d on a bus, which is about the only place I ever use my DS.
This thing deserves to fail.
-- "So they told me that using the download page to download something was not something they anticipated." - Bill Gates
I've not had one since launch, but I've had it a while and I find the 3D effects are nice, not IMAX "wow", but I doubt you'll ever get that feeling on any screen smaller than a few meters. My experience is thus:
Monkey Balls - I'm glad I rented this, because I completed the single player in 90 minutes, the 3D really shines here, but you can't use the 3D if you use the motion controls, which is a shame.
Pilotwings Resort - Only played this for about 2 minutes in a shop, but the island looks awesome in 3D, whether this would wear off after time I don't know, but I can imagine it would.
Nintendogs + cats - This is the only game I own and it works well, the 3D doesn't change the game as such, but I always put it on when I can, it just makes it "nicer", it's hard to explain, but it works.
Face Raiders - This is another game that really has to be played in 2D, but I think makes great use of the under-marketed feature of the motion controls, and it's a fun little game!
AR Games - Now, this is where I think the 3DS shines. Forget the 3D, the AR stuff and motion controls are where the good games are going to be. I know it's been done before, but something like the PS Eye or Kinect is not nearly a immersive or "touchable" as the 3DS, they're like a mirror, where as this is a window and for me, it's just better. I want to see more games like this.
Street Pass (especially the Mii Quest) is a nice little touch, I find myself taking my 3DS out with me even when I know I wont get the chance to play on it just to see if I can catch someone else. I also love the 3D effect in all the menus, it's so subtle, but it looks so nice.
I think he is right, people don't understand the 3DS (and you can't really sell it using 2D adverts), but I can see them longer-term being able to sell it on the other features, which (as you can probably tell) I prefer over the 3D effect.
Don't get me wrong, I love playing 'dogs in 3D, but the other features are much better, and easier to market too.
Clods doesn't understand Nintendo, you insensitive consumer!
I bought one. I got it at 50% of price by trading in my DSi and two games. There is absolutely no way I would of bought it for the price they are selling at. iPad is a much better investment (even for games).
That aside, the 3D is very cool but it is pretty much a gimmick. It also gives headaches/messes up your eyes. I play longer then 5 mins and when I switch back to a computer/book my eyes go all messed up (takes a while for it fix up).
The Augmented reality is very cool and I can see that taking off more.
The games are the usual. Nothing killer on it yet. Most of the device appears not to be there yet. You get a popup saying "This will be available in a later patch".
The cameras absolutely suck for taking pictures, although the 3D pictures are nice.
Overall, nice to look at but I wouldn't recommend it at the current price/state it is in. I would recommend an iPad over it (which also has 3D but no 3D games yet).
Seriously, you list Zelda in the summary as a game that's not out yet...but you do realize that the Zelda game is another rerelease, right? Let's count how many times Nintendo has milked this particular Triforce-branded cow:
1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time - N64
2. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time Master Quest - N64, initially Japan-only release
3. The Legend of Zelda Ocarina of Time & Master Quest - Widely distributed "bonus" title - GameCube
4. The Legend of Zelda Collector's Edition - Included OoT and Master Quest among other Zelda titles - GameCube
5. The two GameCube releases were also playable on the Wii.
6. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D - Nintendo 3DS.
So, basically, this game has been available on every Nintendo home console since the N64 and now they're trying to sell it on the handheld.
WTF? This is coming from a Zelda fan, mind you, and for a long while I considered OoT to be one of the better Zelda games. However, why the hell would anyone buy a new system for such an exorbitant amount of money and then buy this game AGAIN?
Basically, Nintendo shoved this system out the door without any compelling first-party software ready to go, and now it's going to flounder until they release something meaningful. It's just the definition of having hardware without the software. I actually hope Nintendo suffers for this.
It sure ain't rocket science.
If you're just doing straight up old-school rendering, exactly half of the GPU will be doing the left, and the other half doing the right camera. (If you're doing other fancy homecooking stuff on the GPU you could be looking at different numbers, IDK). But the GPU is actually pretty powerful so it can handle itself pretty well.
The CPU is not affected at all by the 3D stuff.
So yes, just like with the original DS, which has two screens, you have to choose how many times you wanna render the same scene. 1, 2 or even 3 (bottom screen) times ?
Nintendo doesn't require devs to render in 3D. The only thing they require is that you support to NOT render in 3D.
Well, I've never seen the 3D effect, but if they're doing true stereoscopic vision, then any part of the interface that is in 3D will have to be rendered twice. That means for a full 3D stereoscopic scene, it will have to render everything in the scene twice. Now this means that the same scene can be kept in memory for both renders, but it will have to be done from two different viewpoints.
which is totally what she said
It could be that people are broke as fuck and the economy is shit. Nintendo is typically for budget gamers these days, and people just don't have the money.
It looks like Nintendo is blaming their customers for not understanding their product... isn't that their marketing department's responsibility?
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
surprised nobody has mentioned money. guess when you're throwin' $300 around every few months for a new iPhone it doesn't matter to some people but last i checked the economy still sucks gas is like $4.00 gallon and i look at that $250 price tag (+ game cost) with a fairly weak opening line of games and walk on by.
A lot of the calculations will be the same for both frames and you can probably cheat a heck of a lot, our brains will fill in the errors if they are kept within a small margin.
Nintendo chief doesn't understand consumers yet, keeps pushing 3DS.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
Nintendo should start inventing something users want. Take e.g. Apple. The iPod can do so much more, with a more modern form factor, many many inexpensive games, state of the art web browser, ok camera, thousands of fun apps etc. Right now, there is simply no question what I would buy for my kids. In a couple of years also the Android universe will catch up and be available on really cheap devices. Unless Nintendo and Sony get their heads out of the sand, they will loose.
"Others think it might have something to do with the console's high price ($250) and the lack of big-name titles available (Mario and Zelda are not yet out)."
I'll be honest, I got a 3DS. I played it for a bit, got bored, and tossed it aside. The main issue with it is a lot of the freeware either assumes you'll bump into other people with a 3DS, and NO ONE has one, or is far too short to keep a long term attention. Other main problem is a lot of the features you'll try to select, and you get "Will be added in a future update." After what happened in Japan, I have a feeling that future is quite a bit off.
Honestly, I think they should have held off the launch a few more months, I can't remember the last time I've seen a release this weak.
What do I know, I'm just an idiot, right?
However, it's unfair to compare launch titles to titles for an older system that developers know well by now.
Are you saying it's unfair to compare the NDS's graphics to a 7 year old system? That's not a good sign.
That isn't the reason the product has performed underwhelmingly. Here are the reality-check reasons: - Price point is still high - Screen is smaller than the previously newly-released DSi XL - No backward compatibility with previous DS games. - For an additional $100 and beyond you can get yourself a tablet or pad that plays games AND computes, browses the web, has useful applications, and extensive other capabilities. My prediction is that the portable game player market is on the decline and will only bottom out when portable tablets and pads take over the industry. Consumers want choices and they just don't get that anymore with dedicated portable game consoles. Honestly speaking, Apple's iPad has made the PSP and DS obsolete. The iPad revolutionized the portable device capabilities and drove an innovative industry to create other tablets and devices and applications that are light-years ahead of the capabilities of Sony and Nintendo handhelds.
I don't think I know a single person who likes the 3D movies anymore, let alone those stupid 3D TVs. The last thing we wanted to see was a 3D console. Yeah, you don't need glasses, but it still gives you a headache, and it doesn't do anything for the games at all. It looks neat for the first 10 seconds then you just want to stab your eyes out with a fork.
I buy have bought nearly every console Nintendo put out since the NES days, I have them all tucked away. I will not be buying a 3DS. The 3D fad is done and gone. Come up with something else.
No, I suppose it isn't. I was trying to reflect the extent to which the level of graphics we've seen from the PSP have advanced over the years; if you compare Untold Legends or one of the other early PSP titles to the likes of Dissidia 012, there is a colossal gap. However, as you say, you can't get away from the fact that it is not terribly impressive for a new platform's titles to be outclassed by those of such an old competitor.
To make matters worse, while the 3DS's graphics may improve over time, they are always going to be limited by the fairly poor size and resolution of the screen. I still have a gut feeling that the NGP (like the 3DS and the new Nintendo home-console) is going to be the wrong product at the wrong time - but it does at least offer both hardware and a screen that is a significant advance on the PSP.
Frankly, I am surprised they sold 3.6 million units. Games cost 40 dollars, yet they are not better nor more advanced than many iOS games costing .99 cents for the iPod/iPhone/iPad. What parent would worry about spending .99 cents for a game for their child? If you blew 40 bucks for a game your kid played once, that would hurt.
Nintendo, wake up and smell the shit you are shoveling. You launched DS, DSi, DS Advanced, who knows how many different relaunches of colors etc and one just recently in the past year. Parents are smart enough not to waste money on your rehashed crap now, especially in the economy.
We dont understand the 3DS? Just like we were too dumb to play the real SMB 2 for the NES?
Suck a dick Nintendo!
- And there's not much else in the pipeline. Yes, there's a Zelda remake coming, but I've bought that game once already and can't get too excited about buying it again. Beyond that... who knows?
Well here are the games I'm really excited about for it:
pinball hall of fame, because actually having good 3d while playing pinball of this quality is going to be great.
kid icarus uprising - looks similar in a lot of ways to sin and punishment for the wii, and there really aren't many games on any system like that.
paper mario 3d - not sure when it is actually going to be out but I love paper mario
professor layton / phoenix wright mashup game - both of these series are great and I expect this one will also be great for the 3ds.
Otherwise there are several features that aren't even out for it yet (browser, for instance), that will make it a much more useful system. These aren't coming out until May at some point, and most of the nintendo first party games aren't being released until the summer. If it is still doing bad after that I'll agree that things aren't doing well for the system.
It's the Virtual Boy all over again. They may never learn.
"Nintendo chief executive Satoru Iwata says consumers have yet to fully understand the console's 3D capabilities" When asked to further clarify his statement he added "They're holding it wrong".
The one thing I don't understand is why put a forward facing camera on the thing and skip out on the face tracking.
The battery life is already in the shitter. Why not have a full feature set implemented while you figure out how to save the battery in v0.2
Sure, they think the concept is cool, but they have no plans to buy one. I have no plan to gift one. Two of my boys are saving their money to buy their own systems, and neither of them wants the 3DS. They've had Gameboys/Gameboy Color (used), Micros (new), DSes (new) and DSLites (new). They've been very vocal about the price point, noting that they could sink that kind of mony into an Xbox or another console.
I use irony whenever I can, but my shirts are still wrinkled...
Drop price and pad release schedule.
...There a 3DS-specific Pokemon yet?
Seriously, Pokemon is the key to Nintendo's success with portable systems.
The PSP uses PSN.
Somehow I don't think Nintendo has a thing to worry about from the PSP after this week.
I might be being dense but I don't really understand that. All that's happening is the 3DS is rendering an 800x240 image. Sure, half those (vertical) lines are from a different viewpoint but that's surely not a performance hit?
Now, it could be that when running in 2D games are running they are only rendering a 400x240 image in which case it would make sense.
Either way, I have a 3DS and the main fundamental problem is not the performance or the battery life - it's the sheer lack of games. I'm pretty bored now with the portable version of SSIV and there is nothing else to play. The provided games are somewhat entertaining but crippled by the 1000 step a day limit on play coin collection (amongst other strange decisions). It's so bad I'm seriously considering picking up the Sims.
Things might have been better if "launch window" titles had been launch titles (for example I pre-ordered Dead or Alive at the same time as the 3DS and it's not out for another month), but there's not much else out on the horizon to look forward to and a raft of other games have been canceled or delayed. I genuinely can't understand Nintendo launching the new Pokemon games for the DS at almost exactly the same time as the 3DS was released.
The day when it's replaced in my pocket by my geriatric PSP-1000 is drawing closer and closer.
Other parts of the device feel completely unfinished (there are lots of bits of the interface that are awaiting a firmware update, also out in May which I don't think is a coincidence since Dead or Alive is meant to have a bunch of on-line store stuff). Maybe Nintendo should have released the 3DS a couple of months later when there were more games and their on-line service worked properly?
Obviously, there are just an insignificant number of customers who are thinking about it wrong.
Really, sales have exceeded expectations amongst people who properly understand the power of the 3DS.
This sounds much like Sony's spin on thing when the PSP was struggling for sales. I dont think its so much that people dont understand the product its that the market has changed around them. Mobile gaming doesn't need a dedicated device for most people anymore. A good bellwether in my home is the opinion of my children. So far none of them have expressed any interest in it at all, but they all want either new ipod touches or ipads. Hardcore gamers will of course still spring for the "deeper" experience that is more common on dedicated platforms but I think that crowd is going to end up rather surprised at just how niche they really are. Even my son who is 10 has decided that being able to do things besides just gaming is sometimes more important than the gaming itself.
Is this the world we live in? either a device breaks records or it's underwhelming, no middle ground?
they wanted to make 4 million sales, they made 3.61 million in sales. They didn't meet expectations, but it's not really underwhelming.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Nintendo's use of gimmicks to sell their underpowered, more expensive (for the technology actually used) consoles is hopefully coming to an end. The DS was all right years ago, but now feels outdated with so many portable touch screen devices available. High price, short battery life, gimmicky features no one wants to use after a 30 minutes with a design nearly identical to its predecessor = dud. If it weren't for Sony's major f'up recently, I'd be fairly confident the PSP and PSP2 would dominate for the next few years, along with iOS and Android devices for those looking for something to toy with during commutes.
The 3DS is terrible as a portable device. The battery life is crap, it doesn't work well on the go, AND it's region-locked. If you've been through major airports in the past few years, they've all been selling DSes and games. You could pick up one game as you passed through London, play it on the plane, get a new game when you landed in New York, no problem. This seemed to be a successful model, from how much of it there was... Now? Nintendo's cut all those outlets off.
Point of Parliamentary Procedure: you're liking thinking of Penny Arcade's take on Kevin Smith's defence of Jersey Girl .
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Right now, there is no game for the 3DS that kids are obsessed with. Which seems odd for Nintendo. Usually the company has a game at launch time to go on the new platform which is compelling enough to help drive demand.
Just didn't do as well as they had hoped. I personally refuse to buy any more Nintendo and Sony products. As I stated above, Nintendo sells gimmicky out of date hardware to profit off those who don't know better (kids and their parents, particularly in Japan). Sony is always on a mission to use their consoles for ulterior motives to make more money in other ways. All hand held video game console games cost a fortune. More than DVDs and CDs, even for crap games. Like someone mentioned above, iOS and Android games are usually $1, rarely more than $10. They may be shorter, but it hardly matters since most people use the device during commutes or while waiting, not when they have a few hours to kill at home.
We're waiting for the games.
Others think it might have something to do with the console's high price ($250) and the lack of big-name titles available (Mario and Zelda are not yet out)."
This. I'm not going to spend $250 on a paperweight. Which this is until they get some decent games. This IS a gaming system. Without games, it's worthless to me. Sure it might have the augmented reality stuff (which does look cool) and some other features, but without a killer app, I just can't justify spending $250.
I agree with the last part. There is not a big game out for the system that I'm dying to play. Once there is a big game, I'll probably cave and buy it. I understand the system, but I am not going to buy a new system when there is not a game that I really want to play for it yet.
It's a handheld machine for playing videogames. Pretty much by definition, its capabilities are playing the videogames that are on it.
As such, I rather suspect that consumers are capable of understanding what those capabilities are. And right now, they don't amount to a whole lot, because there's nothing on it I'm desperate to play.
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
DS Lite $129, DSi $149 (white is $129 at Target), Dsi XL $179, 3DS $249. Heck the Wii is only $169. I think they should have come up with different name/packaging/marketing to separate it from the pack, like Gameboy to DS, if he wanted people to "get it". Or made it $199 if it's a DS iteration.. There is also the $229 iPodTouch, with plenty of cheap "app" games to plays, and Skype and Facetime, and music and video. And of course the $129 PSP (glad I'm not a PSPGo owner this week.) And finally, iPodTouch is 4th Gen, PSP is 3rd, 3DS is first (for 3D, 5th if a really expensive DS) so 3DS Lite should have better battery life and 3D implication with wider viewing angle.
I think the biggest problem is you make a player that is going to be primarily used by children and then warn parents not to let your 6 year-old play it.
So the parents start to think, well what about the children older than 6 or the teen has a little brother and they don't want him picking it up.
Whenever you have to tell parents that a toy is dangerous, you can't be surprised when it doesn't sell.
If you've never been modded as "flamebait" or "troll," you've never tried to argue a minority viewpoint here!
They understand that 3D is shit.
"3D technology has been the next big thing for only the last sixty years and is readily available on television, movies and video games. It offers amazing improvements over ordinary moving images: darkness, muddier colours, blurriness, headaches from watching for more than twenty minutes and slower action sequences so the viewer doesn’t throw up.
In video games, the Nintendo 3DS has been a huge hit with tens or even hundreds of end users, some of whom have left the 3D on for a whole day before switching it off forever. 3D on a phone has been heralded by manufacturers, mobile operators, the entertainment industry, the technical press, optometrists drumming up business and everyone else except the actual consumer."
http://rocknerd.co.uk
I tried a virtualboy at a game store a few times and while 3D is mildly interesting there are just so many ways for it to go wrong, lets also not forget that the games available for these systems are retreads. The whole game industry has really stagnated and has started to resort to gimmickry rather then focus on the software end of it, the really need to be focusing on reducing costs and getting game development down to a science. When so many games end up being lackluster or retreads there is a serious problem when you have to resort to 3D.
remember their last attempt at 3d? yea we all know how well that thing worked out for nintendo. lets just see if the 3DS pulls a virtual boy or if it does go somewhere. I really think some of these marketing people are revisiting ideas from the 1990's that failed with the idea that technology has finally caught up. what they fail to think about is "will people really want it" 3D is one of those tech that sounds good on paper, but really isn't that great outside of cool looking movies. there are few uses and even some potential health risks. other techs and tricks get the job done just as well and they are familiar to us. 3D, like the flying car, sounds cool, but has little real word use.
After using a DSi XL I found it extremely disappointing that the 3DS came out with a crappy smaller screen size.
It's not that "consumers" (how I hate that word) don't understand it, it's that it's ...well... not good value.
The 3D effect works, but it's kind of "meh", doubly so when you consider this is a hand held gaming console, and a screen that only works if your head is exactly the right distance away and within 5 degrees of the right angle just won't work for something that's moving around a bit as you play a game. Essentially, a lot of money for a feature that is an epic fail in usability stakes.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
I understand that is gives me a headache when I use it.
n' I got a manky eye. I'm a black, Scottish cyclops! They've got more [expletive deleted] than they've got the likes of me.
So! T'all you fine dandies so proud, so cock-sure, prancin' aboot with your heads full of eyeballs! Come and get me I say! I'll be waiting on ya with a whiff of the 'ol brimstone. I'm a grim bloody fable, with an unhappy bloody end! Oh, they're going to have to glue you back together... IN HELL!
Really? Is it that atrocious compared to what else is out there?
The PSP claims 4.5-7 hours. The 3DS claims 3-5 for 3D, 5-8 for normal DS use.
Sure, the other DS handhelds have done much better in this regard (the DS Lite wins here, with 9-15 hours), but it's a rare thing that I would be playing even 5 hours straight without having access to power.
It's more a matter of convenience than a matter of necessarily playing the thing for 5 hours straight. If you have a device with, say, a solid (actual) 5 hours of battery life (i.e. outrageous manufacturer claims of 9 hour battery life) - then at any given time you can pick it up and have a pretty good shot at being able to get an hour or two out of it, regardless of whether you remembered to charge it after last time. The battery life is long enough that you mostly don't need to worry about it.
That's how it is with my DS, with my phone (a sorry-looking old Treo), with my EEE laptop - it's very handy to be able to rely on my devices in this way, particularly since I'm prone to losing chargers or forgetting to put them on the charger. When I travel, or go to anime cons or whatever, I'm in good shape even if I don't have a good opportunity for a recharge.
The 3DS battery life is significantly less. It could be fine if you're really good about keeping it charged, or playing it with the charger attached. I'm sure some people would be fine with that - but I'm not. It doesn't suit me. So I'll wait until there's a 3DS with decent battery life.
Bow-ties are cool.
The battery life is far better than 2-3 hours.
I have over 50 hours of gameplay on mine on 3ds games, and easily another 50 hours on DS games. I have NEVER once seen my battery indicator drop more than one bar, and I have played it for 2+ hours at times.
At a reasonable brightness level, you get 4+ hours with 3ds games, and 6-8+ with DS games.
Its incredibly easy to just throw the 3ds on the charging dock when not in use.
And its probably not healthy to play any game for more than 4 hours straight, anyways.
"4 hours straight" is not the issue. "4 hours total playtime between recharges" is the issue. The whole idea of a portable system is to be able to take it places.
Bow-ties are cool.
You would think that Virtual Boy would have taught them the dangers of making 3D your main gimmick. Guess not.
Yeah, but, 3D was hardly the cause of that failure, I'd say.
I mean, it was a quasi-portable goggles-system with red monochrome video. It was riding the late-90s "virtual reality" craze but didn't deliver the real deal. You had to set it up on a little tripod and crane your neck into position to play it. It had 3-D, but the execution really wasn't so great.
It's possible the 3DS is no winner, either - but both the product and the timing of it are much better than the Virtual Boy. Instead of the "virtual reality" crazy that fueled the Virtual Boy (and carried all kinds of expectations like head tracking and immersion which the Virtual Boy couldn't deliver) it's simply "3-D" - and while it can be problematic staying in the "sweet spot" for that 3D effect, it's still a much more natural, much less demanding experience to look at a parallax-barrier screen for the 3-D effect rather than looking into those goggles. It's a much better experience, fueled by a "craze" that's much better suited to the limitations of the system.
I couldn't tell you whether the 3DS will be successful in the end - but I think saying it will fail because the Virtual Boy failed is a little ridiculous. When you look at all you had to go through with Virtual Boy - the system was really just a giant mess. 3DS is flawed but nowhere near as critically flawed, IMO.
Bow-ties are cool.
I think a lot of people are downplaying the historic value of this device as the first stereo camera that the vast majority of consumers (and especially kids) will lay their hands on.
It is cheap,
It fits in your pocket,
It records images to standard media,
it doubles as a glasses-free viewer for the images it takes.
The resolution isn't great, there is a better (but almost twice as expensive) digital stereo camera on the market for stereo enthusiasts, and film stereo photography is as old as the sun, but the kids don't care about any of that. For the most part they will view the 3DS as the birth of home stereo photography.
Disagree. I still preferentially watch 3D movies over 2D ones as it adds immensely to the immersion. Likewise with 3DS.
Nintendo doesn't get gamers, period.
When I saw the release lineup for the 3DS, I yawned. The same tired lineup that has been seen for every console/handheld system Nintendo has released in history. Wow, another Monkey Balls incarnation to showcase the new system's features???!!!
Also, the titles are decidedly juvenile in nature, and none of them scream a need for 3D capabilities.
The hardware style of the 3DS is also unremarkable. Nintendo needs better industrial designers, you know, someone more akin to Apple then from Fisher Price.
It is remarkable that a company coming off the high of Wii sales cannot follow up with another hit system. But repackaging the same old hardware with a trivial new feature is not going to keep Nintendo at the top of console sales for long. One can only wonder about the looming fiasco that will be the replacement to the Wii, which I am sure will also be underwhelming and lackluster.
Nintendo has a hit about once every 10 years, the NES was one, the Gameboy was one, the Wii was another. Inbetween Nintendo has had a proven history of mediocrity, it does not surprise me that the 3DS is failing. It won't surprise me when Nintendo goes bankrupt in 5 years.
I enjoy my Wii and DS. But the recent attempts to curb Homebrew make me realize that I don't fully control these gadgets.
Mind you, I'm not interested in piracy. A dozen games or so is all I have time for anyway. But the Homebrew scales allow me to measure my weight faster than firing up Wii Fit, just to give a small example. I hear newer firmware for the Wii removes Homebrew (which is probably an illegal act where I live), so I've cut off my Wii from the Internet (which means no download sales), and I buy only older titles used on disc any more to avoid the update-or-we-don't-let-you-play effect. Before that I was the first on the block to own some games.
A device that updates itself over the internet without asking for my consent even when turned off? No thanks, and never mind what the license agreement says (which is invalid because it's in the shrink wrap).
Frankly, I hope for a PR disaster here where the automatic update bricks a million or so playthings overnight, folllowed by a hefty backlash from parents who now have a kid throwing a tantrum and a hand-held console at them.
Nintendo et.al., give me a device to own, or give me the option to loan it on a monthly basis. Otherwise you won't get my money. I may not understand the 3DS, but you don't understand consumers. You're just lucky that there are too many parents whose prime directive is satisfying their kid instead of knowing and caring about Digital Restrictions Management.
I might be being dense but I don't really understand that. All that's happening is the 3DS is rendering an 800x240 image. Sure, half those (vertical) lines are from a different viewpoint but that's surely not a performance hit?
There are a couple ways of doing 3D rendering. What you're saying is literally true when it comes to something like ray casting, in which every single pixel casts a ray out from the camera and calculates where it lands (useful for figuring out reflections, portals, etc). That, however, is huge in terms of the amount of processing power it takes; every pixel in every frame takes loads of floating point operations.
One of the big alternatives is rasterization, in which you look at every 3D object in the set, determine if and what part of it is on-screen, and render it. This takes much less time, allows for a lot of cheating / optimization, and is far more suited for mobile devices.
I haven't done a lot of work in CG though, so I can't really offer much in the way of details.
My brother just bought my 7 year old nephew a DSi for his birthday yesterday, the price tag was the only reason he didn't get him a 3DS instead.
There is a war going on for your mind.
I can't afford it / no good games yet. Being American = being broke.
The first article linked to (this one: http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2011/04/nintendo-3ds-sales/ ) compares March sales of the 3DS to other systems. However, the 3DS was released on March 27th, so this is comparing 1 week to 1 month in the other systems. Hardly fair. I see this kind of unfair comparisons and bad sources all over the web when discussing the 3DS.
Nintendo handhelds rarely look good when they first come out. They shine later in their life cycle.
When the Game Boy Advance came out, people complained of dark screens. They fixed that later, in the Game Boy Advance SP, along with several other improvements. Likewise, the Nintendo DS was hard to play in the sun and the shoulder buttons broke easily. The DS Lite fixed those issues. Both of those systems dominated the handheld market - not on release, but soon afterwards.
So, like the last two Game Boy generations, this looks lame on release. Given time, another iteration, and some big-name games, it will continue Nintendo's dominance of the handheld market.
Also - 3D porn. As soon as a few articles complaining about kids looking at that stuff on their 3DS get written, people will start buying them en masse.
I watched my son play Street Fighter on a demo model 3DS at a Game Stop for a few minutes and could barely focus on the screen with the 3D effect on. I had to look away and found it hard to focus for a few seconds. I have no eye problems that I'm aware of. Is this perhaps more of a prototype that shouldn't have been launched yet until the 3D effect was improved and the battery life extended?
http://www.acetonestudio.com
the lack of them. thats about it.
what good is hardware without proper software?
I got a 3DS (for research purposes), and I think the AR games are pretty cool in 3D. It is neat to see a hole open up in the middle of your desk, and you then have to shoot down the hole to hit a target.
Plus when you update the software, you get a 3D video to watch from OK Go.
The 3DS stereoscopic camera functionality is also very cool. Too bad they can't do 3D video capture as well.
I do get the "early iPhone feeling" on the 3DS, that there is a lot more they plan on doing with it software-wise (like adding a web browser), but they are not there yet.
I will be honest that after about 15 minutes of play on the 3DS I have to let my eyes rest. On the other hand, I have no problem watching a full-length glasses-based stereoscopic 3D movie in the cinema or watching large-screen 3DTVs. I suspect the much smaller screen-eye distance on the 3DS means you are more likely to experience discomfort due to vergence/accommodation mismatch.
Aside from the content problem, there's the technology. Frankly, it doesn't look any better than ViewMaster reels, except for the foreground motion. To be honest, I didn't look at the store demo that long, but dimes to doughnuts, Tonto (or somebody) throws a tomahawk (or something) at the viewer's face.
``Tension, apprehension & dissension have begun!'' - Duffy Wyg&, in Alfred Bester's _The Demolished Man_
To stay living as a pauper, while nintendo continues to print money with its 3ds..
When I walked into an electronics store 18 months ago and saw a bunch of kiddies standing around the ipad playing games, while the NDS section was full but abandoned.
Add to that that as a parent I rather pay 99c for a game then 45$ for a similar shoddy casual game.
I dont have a problem to pay full price but not for casual games nor for the 15th rehash of Mario 2d.
There isn't really that much you can reuse. All the vertice have to be processed twice, all the pixel have to be painted twice, etc. If you have real time environment mapping you can of course reuse the environment map without regenerating it and you only need to load a texture once to draw it to both views, but you still have to essentially do everything else twice to get 3D and thus get basically half the frames.
That means for a full 3D stereoscopic scene, it will have to render everything in the scene twice.
At half the horizontal resolution.
Despite owning every other portable Nintendo console, I find no interest on this.
Being European, I am NOT buying a region-locked portable. I import stuff from the US and Japan more than picking games off the shelves. Why? Because games don't arrive, or are released when no one else in the world remembers them, or come in 1-2 units per city, or are censored or altered.
(I know well that the rare game comes earlier here, but one doesn't compensate for the rest, honestly....and not only Europe, but Australia and other minor markets will have it very bad to obtain some games the legal way, if not impossible).
So I am glad this console is tanking. I hope it goes as bad as the virtual boy, or achieves piracy levels of over 90%.
Not really. I would asume it doesn't magcally become a standard 800 pixel wide display in 2D mode. Each eye will still only see a 400 pixels wide display, but each will show the same image.
which is totally what she said
Sure, half those (vertical) lines are from a different viewpoint but that's surely not a performance hit?
As far as I understand the 3DS is always rendering a 400x240 picture, in 3D mode it simply has to render two of them. It doesn't switch to 800x240 when the 3D is switched off, it simply only renders one eye.
....the 3DS sort of sucks when it comes to it's most marketed features. There just is no compelling reason to go 3D when it sucks so badly.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
When my son's DS broke the hinge on the screen (again) he asked for Christmas last year to get a new DS. I informed him he should wait for the 3DS if he really wants it and that a new DS costs just too damn much if I can just pay another $7 for another shell as I have done several times over the past 8 years. So if he wants one, then he should save up for it. This happened in October and all we knew at the time was that the 3DS was coming. My daughter decided to save for one as well, we expected a price tag approximately a little over half of the final price.
Well, my kids saved up and between the two of them, hording their allowance for months and adding to it Christmas money, they have enough for one 3DS and one game. During this time, they have stopped playing DS as their primary platform and instead play on their iPhones. Yes... a 7 year old and a 9 year old each have iPhones. They even have plans on them. The reasons are simple :
1) My wife and I wanted the iPhone 4, so we figured since our kids would need phones sooner or later... why not?
2) You can't easily lose and iPhone and same goes for the book bag they're in during the day. Or the kid the book bag is attached to while in transit. I something ever happened (of course hoping it won't) and one of my kids went missing on the way to or from school, I have easily track the phone in real time from my own. We have used this one already to figure out what happened to my son's back pack which was left at a friend's house after school.
3) Nintendo DS (even the cheap one) with 10 games costs more than an iPhone (even bought brand new) with 50 games.
4) You can buy the game once on iTMS and use it on up to 5 devices. So, when we buy a game, it's for all of us. So, if one of us buys Angry Birds, we all get it.
5) Their homework assignments come via e-mail which they can open on their phones and print over wireless.
6) They can call Momma and Pappa to ask if they can bring a friend home or go to a friend's house after school.
7) With 32 gigs of storage, that's several seasons of cartoons. They watch it while we're in transit. No more scratching DVDs while changing discs on the road.
8) They can read ebooks or listen to audio books whenever they want.
9) Most importantly, they stop taking my damn phone everytime we're on the train, bus or in the car
So, they have decided to get one 3DS and a game and share it as there's no point in buying two of them anymore.
Nintendo isn't at risk from PSP. They're at risk from Apple and Google.
I really think they should of used the cameras and do more of this virtual realty, like using those cards. I REALLY see that in the next Pokemon release.
Honestly though, it feels like they went 3D so they could get away without having to go with a higher rez screen and support higher end graphics. 3D in a video card isn't as hard as having to doubling the graphic ablitys for a higher rez.
What really gets me, in all this, was the DS was a revolution. It showed that you make a good product with good software it will sell. But the 3DS is just another gimmicky upgrade to the original.
Have you noticed that this equation seems to apply fairly well to nintendo products ?
by order of appearance:
super nintendo, better graphics (output) = success
gameboy, worst graphics (output), not really new input = success
virtual boy, new output method = failure
gamecube, 3D games, "new" output = fair, but not really a success
DS, stylus input, new input = success
WII, wiimote, new input = success
3DS, 3D, new output = bad start (according to nintendo people)
When explaining nintendo's products successes compared to more powerful console, people sometimes say that good graphics are not enough, but good games are important. It seems that novel input also plays a role here... Let's see how this applies to 3DS in a few month...
I've had a 3ds since launch, and I agree with most of your ideas... not all though.
- The analog knub is nice to hold, and it moves fairly fluidly. It also has a comfortable knotch for the thumb. It's FAR better than the PSP knub like you said. It was too small, awkwardly placed, and it didn't move diagonally too easily. Also, the PSP knub had a spring that was too taught. It was difficult to accurately maintain a constant position.
- The 3ds effect doesn't just have an ON/OFF Switch. It's a slider that can be adjusted to increase or reduce the parallax screen's effects. For you, I recommend just moving it a minor tap above the off position. You obviously have weak eyes.
I have comfortably played it with the 3D slider on FULL for upto an hour at a time without any issues. (it's a portable system, I'm usually not sitting around doing nothing for any longer). I think it really brings depth to games like Ridge Racer. It makes a low resolution games look pretty, and it's a fun gimmick. I don't experience any headaches. It's not like the virtual boy... man that thing would kill after 20-30 minutes.
- The load times... not that bad. It loads fairly complex regions without boring me. It's not like the PSX's loading times. I have never waited more than 7-10 seconds.
- The 3DS does not hold as poorly as the DS/DSi. But it is still the same awkward box, just with rounded edges and improved trigger buttons. I'm glad it's not cramped like the GBASP... I liked the original GBA much more.
THE BAD:
- Lackluster launch titles. I agree it's pretty inexcusable to have titles like steel driver being your flagship title. What was Nintendo thinking? When the economy is down, and you're releasing such an expensive piece of hardware, you should be trying to attract an audience as much as possible. I feel most of their titles are garbage, and uninteresting. I mean seriously, who's going to buy a system more expensive than the Wii, and then run out to the streets to blow 40 bucks on such a lame game? As for pilot wings, it's fun for a demo kiosk, but kinda seems like a frivolous game overall.
- Multiplayer is missing in almost every game. The wifi should be used to connect you with fellow players around the globe easily. This is expected by today's gamers. We don't need Gamespy or MS-DOS IPX commands anymore....
- Missing features!!! I'd say that Nintendo got sloppy with the firmware. The web browser isn't done yet. Transferring DSi-ware is not available yet. And the eShop is in the works. The buttons for these features tell you to see their website,and that they will have it finished soon. I find that apalling. At least we'll have it soon - end of May they claim.
Counter point!
There are a lot of fun features to play with, and new bonuses to find. The AR games are a fun gimmick. I like fishing, and the ball game a lot. I also like the graphics doodle app.
I've used it as an MP3 player when my phone got low on battery. It was nice to include on the 3ds. And it will play music with the system closed if you have headphones. I was pleasantly surprised that you could change the equilizers, and have interactive minigames with them. There's a 3d ship you can shoot tiles with, and a simple game and watch one.
- The cameras are crap. 0.3MP cameras? I had those on my $20 cell phone nearly a decade ago. They're not particularly crisp either.
But I will admit it's fun to show off sterographic pictures to people that have never held a 3ds. With they had a video mode to show off to people.
- The Wifi does support WPA and WPA2. However - only in specific modes. The programming really only likes when you have a passphrase or direct key to enter. You cannot enter a username and password to connect with a network (as of now). I hope they correct this oversight in a future update.
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It's not that the users don't understand the system. We do. It's not very complicated. It's a DS with the power of a PSP, and a parallax (3D) screen. HOWEVER, I'm sure users a